Grand Am Off Topic Thread
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xeroinfinity
02-09-2009, 08:17 PM
We'll the forums is finaly upgraded. If you're having problems be patient they are being workd on. I know the "quick reply" is to quick right now and editing your post takes you to the advanced edit.
If thier are any other issues, feel free to post them here(if you can) and I'll see what I can do. .
If thier are any other issues, feel free to post them here(if you can) and I'll see what I can do. .
doctorhrdware
02-10-2009, 12:45 AM
I did not even notice any problems.
xeroinfinity
02-10-2009, 07:19 PM
I did not even notice any problems.
you will :lol:
Man its been realy warm here the last few days, upper 50's. Then I seen the weather this evening and its supposed to snow saturday. .... :screwy:
you will :lol:
Man its been realy warm here the last few days, upper 50's. Then I seen the weather this evening and its supposed to snow saturday. .... :screwy:
Gir-_-
02-11-2009, 10:53 AM
we had a fairly intense band of rain go through last night... only lasted about 20-30mins and the power cut off twice lol.
As soon as I told my gf that I was going to go watch from the garage the power cut out and I knew then my computer did the same and is prob trying to reboot lol, stuff gets screwed up that way with it cutting off...
just replaced my TPS, woot! ... dealer wanted $98! .. picked up at advanced auto for $34 + tax
I still 'really' need to take care of my tank pressure sensor, I dont like my SES light always being on grrrrr... cant tell if theres something ELSE better going on lol
btw, I might be going to Dallas the 28th of this month to go do some drag times on the grand am! woohoo! ... Might not be the best as no more 62mm TB and CAI :(
If I were to run a CAI again I would buy one of those filter sleeves to slip over it to prevent 'most' dirt and road grime build up after seeing how dirty it can get down there...
As soon as I told my gf that I was going to go watch from the garage the power cut out and I knew then my computer did the same and is prob trying to reboot lol, stuff gets screwed up that way with it cutting off...
just replaced my TPS, woot! ... dealer wanted $98! .. picked up at advanced auto for $34 + tax
I still 'really' need to take care of my tank pressure sensor, I dont like my SES light always being on grrrrr... cant tell if theres something ELSE better going on lol
btw, I might be going to Dallas the 28th of this month to go do some drag times on the grand am! woohoo! ... Might not be the best as no more 62mm TB and CAI :(
If I were to run a CAI again I would buy one of those filter sleeves to slip over it to prevent 'most' dirt and road grime build up after seeing how dirty it can get down there...
doctorhrdware
02-11-2009, 03:38 PM
You need to get your computer on a UPS, that way you will not loose any data. During any storms, I have all my computers and and may satellite receiver. That way I can still record the programs that I has set to record. My front yard is once again a duck swimming pool. It has been raining here since after midnight.
xeroinfinity
02-11-2009, 07:59 PM
yeah I gots some rain! :( Heard about all those stroms rippin thru out in south central USA , shits scarry ! :eek7:
Its been a little windy here (http://weather.weatherbug.com/IN/Rensselaer-weather.html)this evening, 50mph gusts, and raining. :banghead: :disappoin
No power outages here lol It does suck though loosing unsaved info when stuff happens. Sure be glad when summers here! :D
... learn to swim !
Its been a little windy here (http://weather.weatherbug.com/IN/Rensselaer-weather.html)this evening, 50mph gusts, and raining. :banghead: :disappoin
No power outages here lol It does suck though loosing unsaved info when stuff happens. Sure be glad when summers here! :D
... learn to swim !
doctorhrdware
02-11-2009, 10:22 PM
The temperature is 37 degrees and there is some light flurries. The wind is gusting up to about 50 mph.
xeroinfinity
02-12-2009, 12:51 AM
yeah temps dropped here fast this evening. I was out in a T shirt for th elast couple days, not back to your regular programing. lol
Gir-_-
02-12-2009, 03:01 PM
grfnkl
02-15-2009, 09:36 AM
I don't know if any of you members that have been around on the forums for a long time remember Hoags (Dan) anyways he's back!!! He posted a repair question, he used be a regular out here well as was I. I hope to able to become more active later on this year.. I also hope to get working on my 88 g/a later on this year as well.
xeroinfinity
02-15-2009, 02:27 PM
I don't know if any of you members that have been around on the forums for a long time remember Hoags (Dan) anyways he's back!!! He posted a repair question, he used be a regular out here well as was I. I hope to able to become more active later on this year.. I also hope to get working on my 88 g/a later on this year as well.
Actualy he was here back about 5-6 months ago and either posted a couple times and or sent me a pm(cant remember).
Yes It is good to have old members back. I havnt seen Ride around for a very long time! I know school had him realy busy, but maybe he has a life?! Unlike myself. :lol:
I know lately Ive been super busy and havnt spent as much time on AF as Id like, but I need the moneys! :grinyes:
Hope everyones havin a good weekend!
Actualy he was here back about 5-6 months ago and either posted a couple times and or sent me a pm(cant remember).
Yes It is good to have old members back. I havnt seen Ride around for a very long time! I know school had him realy busy, but maybe he has a life?! Unlike myself. :lol:
I know lately Ive been super busy and havnt spent as much time on AF as Id like, but I need the moneys! :grinyes:
Hope everyones havin a good weekend!
grfnkl
02-15-2009, 02:37 PM
Yeah i haven't seen Ride in I don't even know how long now! I remember a friend of his had a G/a and was one here for a little as well bougs I believe was the S/N. Ever since i traded my GT I didn't need as much advise on repairs and troubleshooting. :lol: Then once i sold the G6 I needed even less. I maybe getting my 88 grand am back with me this year.. and depending on things I can finally accomplish something i've started :rofl:. Recently since i started working again so I've been pretty busy myself... need to make up all the time without a job!
Vipey1337
02-15-2009, 08:07 PM
Having more stupid car problems... evap code AGAIN... too many things to check to really worry about it now. I figure once I get my fellowship or research assistantship, I'm going to spend my stipend on a 2009 subaru impreza lease. I think. :p
Gir-_-
02-15-2009, 09:28 PM
personally I'd go with the 07 impreza :D
xeroinfinity
02-15-2009, 11:14 PM
impreza ? :thumbsdow
Gir-_-
02-15-2009, 11:46 PM
impreza ? :thumbsdow
I wouldnt knock it till you drive one XI, :naughty:
I drove one with a built motor + bigger turbo... the guy had a sheet in the glove box with the build info of the dyno.. 460awhp! .. supar fun lol
I wouldnt knock it till you drive one XI, :naughty:
I drove one with a built motor + bigger turbo... the guy had a sheet in the glove box with the build info of the dyno.. 460awhp! .. supar fun lol
xeroinfinity
02-16-2009, 12:15 AM
Ive driven one or two. ;)
The only thing I liked was AWD, and it was peppy for a 4cy.
Wont leave 4 burnouts, stock though :grinno:
460 sounds kinda high but I guess if he swapped out the turbo and replaced the stock internals he'll be rockin! And not knockin!
Im just to damn big/tall for such a short/small automobile.
Almost needed a shoe horn to get in & out. :rofl:
btw you guys notice the "live" update on threads ?
It updates pretty fast when anyone posts.
The only thing I liked was AWD, and it was peppy for a 4cy.
Wont leave 4 burnouts, stock though :grinno:
460 sounds kinda high but I guess if he swapped out the turbo and replaced the stock internals he'll be rockin! And not knockin!
Im just to damn big/tall for such a short/small automobile.
Almost needed a shoe horn to get in & out. :rofl:
btw you guys notice the "live" update on threads ?
It updates pretty fast when anyone posts.
roboticgod
02-16-2009, 11:53 AM
imprezas are cute ! Good mpg and plenty of horsepower, not for me either.
wow the forums have changed ! :D I think I need an upgrade. lol
sheesh i only have 42 posts, thats lame.
wow the forums have changed ! :D I think I need an upgrade. lol
sheesh i only have 42 posts, thats lame.
Gir-_-
02-16-2009, 01:16 PM
ya I've seen the live thing, I havent watched any live threads though lol
xeroinfinity
02-16-2009, 06:03 PM
imprezas are cute ! Good mpg and plenty of horsepower, not for me either.
wow the forums have changed ! :D I think I need an upgrade. lol
sheesh i only have 42 posts, thats lame.
You are lame! :lol: Like you had time at lunch for internet. :headshake
ya I've seen the live thing, I havent watched any live threads though lol
The live thing is just when youre looking at that particular page, and someone else posts, it automaticly posts it right in front of your eyes. :naughty:
Do you guys have the "multi quote" button on the right ?
wow the forums have changed ! :D I think I need an upgrade. lol
sheesh i only have 42 posts, thats lame.
You are lame! :lol: Like you had time at lunch for internet. :headshake
ya I've seen the live thing, I havent watched any live threads though lol
The live thing is just when youre looking at that particular page, and someone else posts, it automaticly posts it right in front of your eyes. :naughty:
Do you guys have the "multi quote" button on the right ?
doctorhrdware
02-16-2009, 07:30 PM
I have the multiquote button in the lower right hand corner.
xeroinfinity
02-17-2009, 05:11 PM
Cool I wasnt sure what everyone else had. Its been a smoother upgrade then in the past.
Hopefully everything keeps running smoother as time goes by. I think thiers some other features but havent had mcuh time to check it out. I did notice I cant see anyones tabs on thier profiles. :screwy:
Hopefully everything keeps running smoother as time goes by. I think thiers some other features but havent had mcuh time to check it out. I did notice I cant see anyones tabs on thier profiles. :screwy:
grfnkl
02-17-2009, 05:50 PM
I agree this is one of the better updates compared to some of the past ones. I see if you click on the persons username all the info is much different then it used to be.
xeroinfinity
02-18-2009, 06:50 PM
yeah Im having problems seeing everything on profiles. :(
yipy its snowed! lol
yipy its snowed! lol
doctorhrdware
02-19-2009, 01:19 AM
Out my way there is not even enough snow to even to bother to get the plows out. It would be a waste of time and money.
roboticgod
02-19-2009, 12:26 PM
yeah we just got a dusting down here.
Gir-_-
02-19-2009, 06:45 PM
2 people gave me a 'why is he doing that' look today as I started to wash the grand am lol... I completed and dried in 20mins.. not a single waterspot :naughty: did this in the worse of conditions... cold front wind, 50F temp and a clear sunny sky.... didnt miss a thing :) looks really good too. Alot better IMO than $8 at the laser wash in town.
doctorhrdware
02-19-2009, 07:06 PM
50 degrees that is not cold, it 21 degrees and it is going down to 10 degrees tonight.
doctorhrdware
02-19-2009, 11:11 PM
Say good bye to Roland Burris he will be the next to be removed from office. The ex governors stink is on him now too. Now Patty Blogo has been issued a federal subpoenaed. Over her real estate transactions. The never ending soap opera continues.:evillol::rofl::iceslolan
doctorhrdware
02-19-2009, 11:28 PM
Well Xeroinfinity, time to get your snow plow out the weather is calling for 6 to 8 inches of snow starting Friday night to Saturday afternoon.
xeroinfinity
02-19-2009, 11:47 PM
Ive washed my car in 20 deg weather no lines at the public car washes.
Yeah Im always ready for snow. :D
I wont beleve it till its doing it, cant trust the weather man any more, you hear that Vipey. :lol:
Yeah Im always ready for snow. :D
I wont beleve it till its doing it, cant trust the weather man any more, you hear that Vipey. :lol:
Vipey1337
02-20-2009, 01:08 PM
Ive washed my car in 20 deg weather no lines at the public car washes.
Yeah Im always ready for snow. :D
I wont beleve it till its doing it, cant trust the weather man any more, you hear that Vipey. :lol:
:crying::crying::crying::crying:
lol you should come down to west lafayette so I can see how much your car slaughters mine in a race :uhoh:
Yeah Im always ready for snow. :D
I wont beleve it till its doing it, cant trust the weather man any more, you hear that Vipey. :lol:
:crying::crying::crying::crying:
lol you should come down to west lafayette so I can see how much your car slaughters mine in a race :uhoh:
xeroinfinity
02-20-2009, 07:46 PM
:crying::crying::crying::crying:
lol you should come down to west lafayette so I can see how much your car slaughters mine in a race :uhoh:
:lol: Im down that way at least once a week if not 2-3 times.
Right now the SE is, well partialy disassebled. The rear axle everything is removed and the engine/trans is laying on the floor.
Im going over all the under side and removing any rust. The rear inner fender wells were starting to rust back so Im going over it all and probly a new black paint job. :naughty: :cool:
By the finish I hope I can pick up some lowering springs to go with these KYB-2 struts Ive had laying around for a year. :uhoh:
Im also going to recarpet the whole thing and cover the head liner with some plastic leather type matterial. Also looking for a GT with leather seats... They seem to hiding in someones garage and not in the salvage yards. :( :grinyes:
Awaiting snow right now, trying to get some rest, tomorrows going to be a long day if we get much snow. :runaround:
have a great weekend everyone ! :biggrin:
lol you should come down to west lafayette so I can see how much your car slaughters mine in a race :uhoh:
:lol: Im down that way at least once a week if not 2-3 times.
Right now the SE is, well partialy disassebled. The rear axle everything is removed and the engine/trans is laying on the floor.
Im going over all the under side and removing any rust. The rear inner fender wells were starting to rust back so Im going over it all and probly a new black paint job. :naughty: :cool:
By the finish I hope I can pick up some lowering springs to go with these KYB-2 struts Ive had laying around for a year. :uhoh:
Im also going to recarpet the whole thing and cover the head liner with some plastic leather type matterial. Also looking for a GT with leather seats... They seem to hiding in someones garage and not in the salvage yards. :( :grinyes:
Awaiting snow right now, trying to get some rest, tomorrows going to be a long day if we get much snow. :runaround:
have a great weekend everyone ! :biggrin:
doctorhrdware
02-21-2009, 02:18 AM
Can you do my car too.
doctorhrdware
02-21-2009, 05:10 AM
Well X your snow is on its way, have fun playing in it.
xeroinfinity
02-21-2009, 10:34 PM
Yeah it wasnt much snow, kinda depressing. :(
doctorhrdware
02-21-2009, 11:35 PM
It was just enough to cover the grass and that is it.
doctorhrdware
02-21-2009, 11:44 PM
Now they are calling for more snow for the south suburbs. We should have a snow pool and see who can predict the snow fall total.
grfnkl
02-23-2009, 04:08 PM
well I maybe moving to an area that gets colder weather then PR.... and the possibility of snow during the winter!!! :runaround::runaround::runaround:
xeroinfinity
02-23-2009, 08:11 PM
Can you do my car too.
I just noticed what you were saying....
NO !! I wont do your car! :lol:
well I maybe moving to an area that gets colder weather then PR.... and the possibility of snow during the winter!!!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
SNOW ! In PR ?!? Never heard of that one. :screwy:
Yeah Im ready for spring/summer! Tired of the cold and all the chuck holes I keep hitting. At least they can patch them when its warmer.
I guess its going to warm up here by Thursday, then get cold again on Saturday, and possible snow. :runaround:
I just noticed what you were saying....
NO !! I wont do your car! :lol:
well I maybe moving to an area that gets colder weather then PR.... and the possibility of snow during the winter!!!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
SNOW ! In PR ?!? Never heard of that one. :screwy:
Yeah Im ready for spring/summer! Tired of the cold and all the chuck holes I keep hitting. At least they can patch them when its warmer.
I guess its going to warm up here by Thursday, then get cold again on Saturday, and possible snow. :runaround:
doctorhrdware
02-23-2009, 09:11 PM
It not that hard to do. It is reported that on Wednesday it will be in the mid 40's.
grfnkl
02-23-2009, 09:30 PM
SNOW ! In PR ?!? Never heard of that one. :screwy:
Yeah Im ready for spring/summer! Tired of the cold and all the chuck holes I keep hitting. At least they can patch them when its warmer.
I guess its going to warm up here by Thursday, then get cold again on Saturday, and possible snow. :runaround:
:eek7: :screwy: You clearly didn't read what i wrote... :lol: Um... So I will be moving to an area that gets colder weather then PR and the possibility of snow in the winter!
Yeah Im ready for spring/summer! Tired of the cold and all the chuck holes I keep hitting. At least they can patch them when its warmer.
I guess its going to warm up here by Thursday, then get cold again on Saturday, and possible snow. :runaround:
:eek7: :screwy: You clearly didn't read what i wrote... :lol: Um... So I will be moving to an area that gets colder weather then PR and the possibility of snow in the winter!
xeroinfinity
02-24-2009, 06:56 PM
:eek7: :screwy: You clearly didn't read what i wrote... :lol: Um... So I will be moving to an area that gets colder weather then PR and the possibility of snow in the winter!
:uhoh: I read what you wrote....
I just didnt know it got cold in any part of PR or snowed. :lol:
And 40s is a heat wave right now.
It probly going to just rain the whole time and make it muddier. :rolleyes:
:uhoh: I read what you wrote....
I just didnt know it got cold in any part of PR or snowed. :lol:
And 40s is a heat wave right now.
It probly going to just rain the whole time and make it muddier. :rolleyes:
grfnkl
02-24-2009, 08:39 PM
PR can get cold especially up in the mountains where my wifes father/family is from. they've seen temps as low as the low 40's at night. Around here in San Juan we have gotten a few chilly nights ( to us) where it got down to the mid 60's. SNOW in pr...... probably not since the last ice age. :lol: Seriously though I'm moving to North Carolina in a few short months. No more tropical weather all year round for me. :shakehead It was nice while it lasted.
xeroinfinity
02-25-2009, 07:54 PM
I call 40-60 degs nice weather. :grinyes:
When you said north I didnt think of the upper, U$A. Though it does snow in NC, and probly is right now. :D
When you said north I didnt think of the upper, U$A. Though it does snow in NC, and probly is right now. :D
xeroinfinity
03-02-2009, 05:58 PM
well if anyone gets any SS headers be warned mine have a cracked weld causing a small leak. It only does it when its cold out and the engines cold, once it warms it quiets down drasticly but still its a problem. :( Here are my prelimanary pics... yello circle.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DSC00012.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DSC00010.jpg
You can see where exhaust has been blowing out. I guess I'll try and weld it on the car and weld a small brace accrossed those pipes. Just hoping it doesnt cause it to break further down the pipe like my SE done. :rolleyes:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DSC00012.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DSC00010.jpg
You can see where exhaust has been blowing out. I guess I'll try and weld it on the car and weld a small brace accrossed those pipes. Just hoping it doesnt cause it to break further down the pipe like my SE done. :rolleyes:
doctorhrdware
03-02-2009, 06:14 PM
I thought that SS headers were very good headers.
xeroinfinity
03-02-2009, 06:33 PM
I thought that SS headers were very good headers.
Not as good as they used to be. :grinno:
I installed a set on a 71 Nova(350) I had back in 89', still good as new, and I sold that in '89.
Tho a real PITA to install(as with any header), man that thing is loud! :naughty:
ps- they'll probly say because i painted them the weld broke. lol
pss- could I get some reputation up in here ? :D
Not as good as they used to be. :grinno:
I installed a set on a 71 Nova(350) I had back in 89', still good as new, and I sold that in '89.
Tho a real PITA to install(as with any header), man that thing is loud! :naughty:
ps- they'll probly say because i painted them the weld broke. lol
pss- could I get some reputation up in here ? :D
grfnkl
03-02-2009, 06:56 PM
Hey XI.... I saw your post in the thread with guy guy about the fuelpump/relay.... what would you say if I told you my 88 grand am still has the original fuel pump, water pump, heater core, relays ( except headlights), timing gears, brake lines, rear shocks... just to name a few parts. OH better yet. the only things mechanical that have been replaced was the alternator. :grinyes::lol::naughty::eek7: So my car has original 21 year old parts on it. :eek7: I guess when i'm ready to work on it I'm gonna have more things to replace. :cwm27:
xeroinfinity
03-05-2009, 08:13 PM
I beleve you, those cars were better made IMO. Plus your fuel suply is close to NJ, so cleaner fuel with less contaminates(water). Its not impossible if properly taken care of.
My 89 Firechicken has original everything under the hood, including FP. But it only has 80k miles and is always garaged.
Man its been a heatwave today! Up in the 60's!! ! Probly rain though in the next day or two. Enjoy it while I can. :D
My 89 Firechicken has original everything under the hood, including FP. But it only has 80k miles and is always garaged.
Man its been a heatwave today! Up in the 60's!! ! Probly rain though in the next day or two. Enjoy it while I can. :D
doctorhrdware
03-05-2009, 08:18 PM
It made up to 65 here today and it is still 64 right now. Well now they are calling for rain on the weekend.
xeroinfinity
03-06-2009, 07:58 PM
yeah I guess it got up to 70 yesterday and today. Hope the rain stays at bay!! I seen its going to start cooling down after the weekend, as long as its nice tomorrow!
http://www.butterylicious.com/smilies/classic/dance.gif~Doin the anti-rain dance~ http://www.butterylicious.com/smilies/classic/dance.gif
http://www.butterylicious.com/smilies/classic/dance.gif~Doin the anti-rain dance~ http://www.butterylicious.com/smilies/classic/dance.gif
doctorhrdware
03-08-2009, 03:49 AM
Well Xe you did not get your wish. It has been pouring here all day. Getting a lot of lighting now.
xeroinfinity
03-08-2009, 12:28 PM
Oh yes I did ! :D
It didnt rain Friday and didnt rain yesterday untill later in the afternoon. Though its rained all night/day today, pretty hard rain. I seen some flooding in the river out back.
A good day to watch a movie!
I just started watching Tokyo Gore Police (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1183732/) not small child safe, oh and dont try to eat while watching it. :grinno: :lol:
edit... i just remembered about daylight savings lastnight, better turn the clocks up. Or maybe I'll just not participate in this conspiracy. :naughty:
It didnt rain Friday and didnt rain yesterday untill later in the afternoon. Though its rained all night/day today, pretty hard rain. I seen some flooding in the river out back.
A good day to watch a movie!
I just started watching Tokyo Gore Police (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1183732/) not small child safe, oh and dont try to eat while watching it. :grinno: :lol:
edit... i just remembered about daylight savings lastnight, better turn the clocks up. Or maybe I'll just not participate in this conspiracy. :naughty:
doctorhrdware
03-08-2009, 03:14 PM
I am under a tornado warning, it is 52 degrees. Now the sun is starting to come out. Having some crazy weather.
xeroinfinity
03-09-2009, 07:32 PM
Yeah it was warmer yest morning, then those storms blew thru Indiana. I had a lot of wind around 45 constat, then we had 75mph gusts for about 1/2 an hour. I guesss thier were 3-4 confirmed tornadoe touch downs down south and up north by forte wayne. :yikes: A little early it seems, I guess chances for more storms tomorrow. :runaround: A least I gots a safe basement. :thumbsup:
On a lighter note, I was looking for a new screen saver the other day. Just needed something new/different, if you like fire you'll like this screensaver!! Its awsome!! :ylsuper:
http://downloads.zdnet.com/abstract.aspx?kw=free-fire-screensaver&docid=844897
be safe!
On a lighter note, I was looking for a new screen saver the other day. Just needed something new/different, if you like fire you'll like this screensaver!! Its awsome!! :ylsuper:
http://downloads.zdnet.com/abstract.aspx?kw=free-fire-screensaver&docid=844897
be safe!
doctorhrdware
03-09-2009, 11:13 PM
Flash flood watch for the Chicagoland area. Here comes round 2 for more storms and possible thunderstorms
xeroinfinity
03-10-2009, 06:45 PM
Man its rained all day! Was raining very heavily just a bit ago. :disappoin Looks like a cool down coming back too. :(
Be glad when summers here!
Be glad when summers here!
doctorhrdware
03-11-2009, 03:01 AM
It was 62 degrees earlier today, it is now 43 degrees. Almost a 20 degree drop.
xeroinfinity
03-11-2009, 11:32 PM
it was a tease wasn't it.... now back to the freeze! :mad:
..looking forward to summer! :grinyes:
I heard up where Vipey lives close to has been flooded pretty bad. I guess people have been sandbaggin it, that would suclk realy bad!
Im pretty safe I doubt the water would flood my yard, well maybe when all the ice caps melt. :dunno:
learn to swim! :D
..looking forward to summer! :grinyes:
I heard up where Vipey lives close to has been flooded pretty bad. I guess people have been sandbaggin it, that would suclk realy bad!
Im pretty safe I doubt the water would flood my yard, well maybe when all the ice caps melt. :dunno:
learn to swim! :D
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