david-b's 95 Eagle Talon ESi-T Motor Build

No not yet. Was doing some more wire tucking and decided that the loom that has the AC, coolant, PS, and some other wiring harnesses in them needed to get smaller. So I cut it open, and taking out the wires not being used.
Have to extend some of the wires since the main harness now sits lower (wires wouldn't reach the far).
Also then rewiring the CLT for MS to use an exsisting ground wire, instead of running it to the chasis.
Then will reloom and close it all up. Should be clean.

But other than that, it's all back together minus the lower cross member as I leave it off until I start the car to make sure the oil pan isnt leaking. And forgot to buy wire loom so didnt finish wrapping the MS wires at the ECU yet. Although not that important, still needs to get done.

Startup is in the next day or 2. Battery and laptop are charged and ready to go. Also have to degrease everything. Dirt and fingerprints all over the place. Damn my artist side.

Dave when I put mine back together I added about 1/4" worth of washers under the front of the cross member to pull the front of the motor down some to give more clearence on the manifold to the hood. Dont know how close yours is but it worked well for me

No clearance issues with this turbo. It sits close, but doesn't touch. You can see on the radiator where it's close because it's burnt. But I plan on making a little heat shield for it. Good idea though for the next turbo.

I was talking ab the top of the manifold to the hood, when i heat wrapped mine the hood was pretty much sitting on the heat wrap. The turbo clearence to the rad. I drilled out the rad mounts some and pulled it forward till it hit the support

Car is all back together and I can it to start. It feels like it's running on 2 cylinders. Won't idle without getting gas, and it's just really lumpy. Not sure where the other 2 are at. Checked all the MS wiring and that all seems fine, so I'm really not sure where the problem is at.

Finally got a chance to work on the car tonight and still can't figure out the problem. Spark seems fine, and it appears that it is getting fuel. I even swapped out the FI harness with another one (incase that one got broken while I was wire tucking) and still nothing. Took off the wire crimps to make sure all the wiring is fine and still together, and it's all good.

I stopped the small coolant leak and found where my oil leak is (VC, back bolt missing :\ ) but have no idea why the car is running like this. Reflashed MS again just to make sure that was fine. I took a quick log of it 'idling' but can't see anything wrong there neither, other than the fact I have to hold the throttle to keep it running. This is getting aggrevating. Next step I guess is a compression test, although it's not broken in and can't get it warm enough to get good readings. Should be fine though.

Ready to nearly throw the car out. And what's sad... is I keep buying stuff for it!! Let's just say I dropped another grand on new parts this month :/
HEEELPP!!!!

Dave that is a weird issue. Have you pulled the plugs out to see if you can tell which ones are firing? Also you should try and get someone to keep the car running and pull plug wires to see if it changes how the car runs. Would tell you if all the cylinders are firing. Also checking compression is a good idea, it may be off a tooth or so. I know you said it was dead on but you never know

No haven't pulled the plugs out yet. I've been trying to get someone else over to give me a hand but everyones been busy. I'll pull the plugs today and prob do the compression test; pretty nice outside right now.

I believe if the timing was off, it would be running better than this. I had the car off by one tooth once before and it ran much better than this. Still was even.

This is really pissing me off again and nearly ready to tow it to a shop and shell out the cash to fix this POS and sell it.

Did compression test (cold motor, no miles on it)...

160-150-190-190

WTF

So pissed again. Don't know what the hell is wrong now, as I made sure the pistons/rings were 100%, head is flat and everything was done right. Thinking of just calling it quits and towing to a shop. I don't have time to tear this down YET again. Either that or sell it. Option B is looking really good right about now.

This may sound like a retarted question but is your tester working consistenly?

I tested them all twice, and the 150 I did 3 times just to make sure :(

Maybe the rings just haven't seated yet. I wouldn't be worried about it to much at this point

Uh but when the car isn't running... it's something to worry about

This is exactly why my DSM was given a one way ticket to hell...

I suppose the weather is nice and I should start working on it soon...

Dave, you really need to figure out what's going on there man. You sure it's not an issue with you valves not seating properly in those two cylinders? I'd take the head to a shop and have em pull vacuum on it to check it out.

Head and valves are all good. Had the head checked out this last time it was off.

Well I can't think of anything else on what's going on with this car. It seems like it should still be running better than it is even with the compression numbers like that. I'm going to play around with it somemore and see if I get any results. If not (which I'm not holding my breath), I'm sucking it up and towing car back to the garage and doing tear down #3. I'm pretty sure at the garage, and with a helper... I can get it torn down and back together in 2 days.

The ONLY other thing I can think of is that something with the emissions is stopping the car from running. I don't have any of the sensors I pulled off anymore so can't reinstall them. But besides the wire tucking, that's the only other thing that changed from when this last time.

Been working on it and have nothing but fail.

-Was still running rough. Called Jason and while on the phone, MS decides to crap out. Car wouldn't start at all and for some reason MS is not reflashing
-Yesterday I bypassed MS and converted back to stock fuel injectors. Still continued to run like ass.
-Fuel pressure is good at 25psi when it is idling. But have to keep foot on gas and still very "lopey."
-Tried switching from the MSD coilpack back to stock and still getting same result with that as well. Wires are hooked up to ECU.
-Disconnected harness from ECU just for the hell of it... no change.
-Was thinking of screwing with the cam gears, seeing if I get any different results from that. Just worth a try I guess. But if the timing was off I'd have lower compression across the board. So I don't know


While driving the Grand Am last night, the upper radiator hose decides to take a shit and nearly blow up. Coolant all over the place. Lucky I stopped for gas or I would have been stranded on teh e-way with a overheated car.

At the point of seriously parting out the Talon, selling the GA, and just buying something reliable and calling it quits on the car thing. Would end up saving so much money and time in the long run. Really, if there's anything anyone wants off the Talon, let me know because I'm not going to hold back if I get offers on anything. Also have coilovers and a new FMIC that are waiting to get installed.

Dave you need to be running stock fuel pressure on stock fuel system. Crank it up to 45psi or so and try it again. Whats the WB looking like when running

It's running exactly the same way so I really don't think it's going to make a difference. No clue on the WB, wasn't paying attention. I started it, ran for couple seconds, tried again, tried again... called it a night.

I feel your pain. Took the plates off my Talon 2 weeks ago. I already miss the loud exhaust, rattling rear view mirror, vibrating dashboard, having no power steering and "hot chicks" dying to get a "ride" around the "block".

I'm considering doing something with mine too. I don't know if I want to sell it or just part it out or keep it just cause. IDK but I feel your pain.

Foti, the Talon is no more? When did this happen?

Foti, the Talon is no more? When did this happen?

Yea no doubt?

Wish somebody'd buy my S.

dont give up just yet Dave, its got to be something simple. They make things you can test each injector with you make sure its firing. If you have the injectors firing and spark on each cylinder I dont see how it cant run. May want to check timing again

its got to be something simple.

I said that 3 years ago... :lol:

Got the car running this weekend. Was all ready to start parting it out, and was able to fix it. After checking for spark and fuel again, I checked timing. Pulled the valve cover and checked it all out. Ended up moving the intake and exhaust cam back 1/2 a tooth. Sounded so much better when running, but still wouldn't idle.

It hit me like a ton of bricks... I did the throttle body mod to block off the IAC and all the idle passages, thus allowing no air in. I adjusted the throttle body screw to open the flapper some and it now idles. Took around the block, and she dies when I pop the car out of gear, since the car doesn't know how to idle, but starts right back up and then all good.

Going to check compression again sometime soon after some breakin runs (turbo bypassed) and see where she sits then. Just have to get megasquirt to reflash itself since that's being stupid, and then I can install the 750s again and boost.

And I get no credit for solving the problem. Thats fucked up dave!! Nah Im just kidding glad you got it running

That's great news man! Vids to come?

And I get no credit for solving the problem. Thats fucked up dave!! Nah Im just kidding glad you got it running

You are the man... I am not
You rock... I do not
You are a pimp... I am not
You are the hero... I am not
:lol:
No I do owe you a lot of credit. I'm send you a beer. That straw idea was great. Seriously one of the most stupid yet innovative things ever.

No vids til the motor is broken in. I've been starting it up each day just for a minute to make sure it's still good and it purrs nicely. I'll be working on getting MS back so I can have that control idle so I don't have to buy a new IAC.

At least it was a "easy" fix instead of it being bent valves and who knows what else.

glad to hear man i was hoping u wouldnt part it out i love ur esi-t

Got MegaSquirt reflashed today. Thank god nothing was wrong with it. Just a corrupt file I guess. Got the injectors back in, fuel pressure down, and MS wired back up to the injectors, and now it's not running. It dies if I'm not on the throttle, and then it starts surging until it dies.

Any ideas?

The IAC went out on my red car, and it costs $230 for a Autozone p.o.s., so I unplugged it and upped the idle. Little rough on cold starts sometimes.

Your current problem though....i know nothing about MS. :(

What do you have your fuel pressure set to at idle?

Fuel pressure is at ~25psi.

The MegaSquirt doesn't work with the stock IAC, but it will adjust fuel to hit that target AFR. So there's no motor adjusting the idle, the amount of fuel it adjusting it. I had the IAC unplugged since MS was installed. I blocked off the IAC passage way with pennies on the TB and I'm thinking that may be it. I adjusted the flapper again to allow more air in, but I'm thinking it might now be enough. I'm just going to buy a new IAC (luckily the 420a's are only $30 ;) ) and reinstall it.

I think my update can be summed up with one picture...

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/0529002001Medium.jpg


Yup... again. Got the car running yesterday morning with a new IAC. Worked out some kinks with MS and thing was running great. Did some pulls with the wastegate open. Reconnected that up, but stayed out of boost.

I was having problems the crank bolt backing out. Kept having to tighten that up and I thought I had gotten it good. Went to get the car washed, and the power steering went out so I knew it was loose.

Literally 2 blocks away from the wash, I hear this loud rattling from the bolt is, and I go to pull over, pop it out of gear and pull over, and it dies. I check out the bolt, and it's sticking out. I try cranking... won't turn over. Feels like no compression.

After waiting for 3 f-en hours for a tow truck (only towed 2.1 miles to my house), it was already dark so I didn't have time to pop the hood. Today I'll see what's going on on this thing. Not happy.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/0529001850Medium.jpg

Died at the end of the runway
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/0529001848Medium.jpg

Damn that sucks man, so it was turning over but not starting? Or the motor wouldn't turn over at all?

Just sits there and cranks. Sounds like the Grand AM when the head was warped

WTF? What are you torqueing that bolt to? I have faith that it's something simple.

Turns out the alternator belt came off the pulley and got sucked through the timing belt. Pulled off valve cover and checked timing. Off by about 3 teeth. Going to pull head and check for valve damage. Replace any damaged valves, and then redo timing. It's a day long project, assuming that the valves are in good shape. So not really too concerned about it. Already done this too many times lol.

With that bolt, I torque it with the timing belt wedged so it doesn't move and go until it can go no more. I didn't put new thread lock on it though this time around, so I will do it next time though.

OMG dude, that sucks.

Ya it does sucks. It's my fault though for not having the timing belt cover on. Amazingly I'm pretty chill about the whole situation right now which is weird for me. For sale sign is actually not in the window this time around.

But I will be buying then entire timing belt cover. I was going to make my own originally, but never got around to it. Sadly, was too late. I'll mod it so I can still get to the cam gears. Thinking some kind of custom plexi glass cover. Not sure yet. Just need a cover on it though. Will try to find one today and hoping to have the head off someday during the week. And then depending on damage, may be back together on Sunday.

Just looked at timing belt, and it's chewed up. Going to replace that too as well again since I'm in there.

I always run a timing cover on all my cars. I usually run with the upper cover off though, just because I like to keep an eye on my Tbelt.

As far as the crank pulley. I have had the same troubles with my honda. Because unlike my eclipses which have 5 bolts holding the crank pulley on (wonderful design), my civic has only one. I have found that the only way to tighten it properly is with red threadlock and an impact.

I put the pulley on and impact the bolt on. I then remove the bolt and and add red threadlock. I put the bolt back in and impact it on. Let the threadlock completely cure. I drive the car around a little bit, come back and put the impact on it one more time just to make sure its tight.

People always said to run the covers, and I was going to make one out of sheet metal. Just never got around to it.

The 420a is one single bolt as well, and nothing but a pain in the ass. I'll definitely try your method. When I bought this new bolt it had blue thread lock already on it. When I took it out the second time, it was mostly gone. Really, this was no ones fault but my own lol.

Dave, just get a hooker to spit on the threads of that bolt...youll be good :naughty:

The blue threadlock is probably all you need as far as that is concerned, but DEFINATELY tighten it with an impact big dawg.

Wow that sucks man. 3 teeth is a lot to be off. Thats about 25* on the cam. It depends on which cam skipped teeth. Hope nothing it bent

Finally got around to pulling the head after lots of rain and no time. Amazingly, pulled in about 3 hours total, and that includes pulling off the timing belt, tensionors and everything else.

Long story short, some valves got bent after the alternator belt got caught in the timing belt, causing no compression. Still, I'm totally cool with it though. Pics!

You can see the 2 on the intake side here are not seated properly anymore. Looks like a total of 4 (2 intake/2 exhaust) got hit. It looked like more, but after looking more closely, I think that was all. The 2 pistons have a little mark on where they hit. But the car was idling when it happened so everything (minus the valves) survived thank god.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/0612001427Medium.jpg

Probably should have drained the block before pulling the head
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/0612001433Medium.jpg

Looked at the timing belt, and kind of glad I decided to buy a new one... this one is beat up pretty bad. The metal in the belt was popping out here, and some other small tears and rips in other places. I really need a timing cover, but cant find one anywhere. I'm going to buy a bunch of sheet metal and make a custom one. I have some drawings on what I want, but I know it's all going to change once I actually start on it. Should be fun.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/0612001435Medium.jpg

Now my question, I'm just going to replace all the valves. I had gotten a 3-angle valve job 3 or 4 years ago when I originally built the head. Do I have to take the valves and head to my machine shop to get them reseated?


On a side note, since the Grand Am was out of commission and my g/fs car had brake problems, I got to drive her dad's Ram 1500 Hemi :D Beastly. Compared to driving the Talon and GA, this thing sits so high and just so big. I think the inside of the cab is bigger than the inside of the Talon. Massive.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/0612001822Medium.jpg

Luckily that's all that happened. I will post on a couple forums I'm on to see if anyone has the timing belt covers for the 420a

Guy on DSMpurity has the cover. How much you want to pay for it?

http://www.dsmpurity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8854&page=2

Sweetness. IDK how much they go for. Ned can you send him my email addy?

How do you plan on cleaning all that fluid sitting on your pistons?

Sweetness. IDK how much they go for. Ned can you send him my email addy?

Just sent him a PM with your email address.

How do you plan on cleaning all that fluid sitting on your pistons?

Got my siphone and was going to start sucking it out (that's what she said), but it didn't work. So took those shop rag paper towels and just let them soak it up. Before the head goes back on, I'll oil up the top just to make sure they stay lubed up and don't score when starting.

Just sent him a PM with your email address.
Much appreciated. Can't find these things anywhere!

Not a problem. Glad I can help. Did he email you?

Not a problem. Glad I can help. Did he email you?

Ya actually just got a message from him. We'll see where this goes.

Just ordered valves as well. Plan on pulling the old valves tonight and prep the head.

When I pull a head, I usually just suck the water out of the cylinders with a wet/dry shop vac, lol.

Valves were supposed to come in on Friday, but still not here, so went out today and installed my new Mishimoto FMIC. I had this laying around for awhile. One vendor on Tuners had a couple left on mad clearance so picked up a big one.

The previous one was some ebay brand "JDMSport." Figured it'd get maxed out kind of quick. Old was only a 2.5" core in/out, new one is 3". When I installed the small one after the motor swap, I used brackets that I could just bend and reuse for a bigger FMIC, and it worked great.

Took out the last of the emission brackets. Needed to get the bumper off to get to it. Also remounted the horn then. Now sits up in the passengerside fender, bolted up through the frame.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/P6200276Medium.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/P6200279Medium.jpg

All bolted up and installed. Had a lot of trimming to do on the bumper and just a little on the crash bumper. Had a lot of problem trying to get the bumper back on, punch the fender (the good one on the driverside) and dented the shit out of it.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/P6200283Medium.jpg

And the money shot :)
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/P6200281Medium.jpg

All back together. Sleeper :)
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/P6200288Medium.jpg

And yet I still fail to understand why people want to punch cars....doesnt make any sense.

That puddle is in a very inconvenient spot!

There's the 2 spots where the front wheels sit where the blacktop always sinks in from the weight. That one is still full because most of it is coolant and the car gives it shade. The driverside hole was totally dry for once. But yes, major inconvenience.

Last time I got pissed, I threw a wrench at the ground. My neighbors place is a good 20-30ft away from my car port. The thing bounced up and hit her wall, literally 2 inches from going through her window. Oh, FYI, she's my landlord... so that would have been a big fail. Figured this time, just punch it... done it lots of time... just picked probably the weekest part of the fender though. Will be buying new ones before the car gets painted, whenever that will be.