david-b's 95 Eagle Talon ESi-T Motor Build

Did some work today. Got 3/4 pistons in.

I have a question. When I turn the crank by hand, should it be super smooth and easy or should it be a little rough?

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/P4150087Medium.jpg

I'm getting my kitchen back!
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/P4150084Medium.jpg

They aren't ball bearings so the crank isin't going to turn super smooth. I wouldn't worry about it

They aren't ball bearings so the crank isin't going to turn super smooth. I wouldn't worry about it

Good. It just seems that you can hear the rings against the cylinder walls (yes I oiled them) pretty well, and when everything is mid-crank (all pistons same height), it seems to get hard to turn at that point. I'll get that last one in tonight then. I have to say, this is fun.

Also, what was the final torque specs on the caps? Manual says 20lbs/ft and then to 90lbs/ft. I threw out the boxes for the rods with all the papers yesterday (dumbass) so I don't know if they should be different. Was going for 90 and I can't because the stand keeps moving all over the place once I get past like 70lbs

Also you can see in the pic of my kitchen the turbo is all back together except for the compressor. Still going to get that polished/painted soon and won't bolt down until on the car. Also next to it is a 2.5" v-clamp that I got off eBay for pretty cheap. Would have been cheaper to make my own, but this one is all polished and looks nice.

On a side note... I've been at my apartment for over a year and my landlord has never been inside since I moved in. He said a couple months back that he would stop by one day to just make sure that everything is good and just give the place a once over. Well he called me Tuesday night asking if I he could come over because he was at my neighbors. I don't think he would mind too much with the motor being there since I'm not making a huge mess and cleaning it up, but the kitchen was TERRIBLE on Tuesday. That's why I cleaned up a lot and put everything in a home or a pile. Kinda funny that he wants to come over mid-project like that. Coincidence?

What rods do you have? Be careful torqing those rod caps. Mine where only suppose to be around 45 ft.lbs and i got them mixed up with the thicker studs and tried torqing them to 75 ft.lbs. I never could even reach that torque spec bc the bolt streched like hell. I ended up having to replace that bolt. So be careful and find the spec before you crank the hell out of them.

What rods do you have? Be careful torqing those rod caps. Mine where only suppose to be around 45 ft.lbs and i got them mixed up with the thicker studs and tried torqing them to 75 ft.lbs. I never could even reach that torque spec bc the bolt streched like hell. I ended up having to replace that bolt. So be careful and find the spec before you crank the hell out of them.

Eagle Rods. Shit. I hope I didn't screw them up. That explains why it doesn't really stop. I'm off to find specs!




EDIT: Looks like I'll need a new set of ARPs. DAMNIT!

some of the bolts held 75 lbs and didn't strech but one did bad and then i stopped so I only replaced that one. You may not need to buy all of them. I think there is a strech limit so you may want to check that out

Not much has happened still. Funds a little low and time just not on my side too. Basically, I'm going to tear the block down again and redo it. You can turn the crank by hand but you need a lot of force. So something is not right there. Crank spun fine originally, but once pistons were installed, that's when the problems happened. So, have to check everything again.

I started wiring MS but keep getting bored while doing it. I'm lazy. I bought a HP Mini laptop that I installed MS on. It's only like 3lbs and has a 8" screen I believe. Not a bad little computer. Screen is nice and bright and it can handle MS no problem it seems like. Worth the money. Also use it for when I want to be more mobile with my computer, since my other laptops have 17" screens or no batteries or whatever.

My power windows are ballin' still. The thicker door panels On the "premium" doors are nice and really do block out a lot of road noise compared to the cheap thin plastic ones I used to have.

The motor is going to be hard to turn. The rings are scraping against the cylinder walls. Thats not a big deal

Ok so now that I'm back settled in from vacation, it's time to get this project going again. I'm doing research on clutches right now. I think that's the last big expense for this project. I also picked up a new 12' wiring harness for MS so I don't have to run all my own wires and shit. It's all loomed up and wires are labeled. Will make it easy to get done. Should start running that this week as long as the rain is all good.

Still going to tear the block apart and make sure rings are in the right place and relube everything. Just for my own piece of mind.

My current IC piping where i welded the BOV pipe on (steel on aluminum) is starting to leak. So I got a new flange and going to make a little section and just coupler it in to the IC setup.

-Fuel injectors are going to be some 1000s. Going to sell the 440s I have first.
-Boost controller is ordered.
-Looking at large FMIC but may just max out the litle one first.
-Downpipe will be built on the spot. Was going to get a GST DP and run a little setion from the turbo to it, but I can weld my own up no problem.
-Bought sheet metal to reconstruct the passenger-side strut tower. Rust has gotten pretty bad so going to cut out the bad spots and redo it.
-Need new fuel rail (don't want to cut up current one)

So time got pushed off to mid June now for completion.

how long you think its all gonna take

...
So time got pushed off to mid June now for completion.

how long you think its all gonna take

:smooch:

So time got pushed off to mid June now for completion.

how long you think its all gonna take

:smooch:

Take note guys... This is exactly how my response was to the same questions...






































And we all see how far I am... :rolleyes:

Feel the love Davey :smooch:

Looking good Davey. Keep up the good work

:lol:

So this past week the car had been running like shit. I replaced the air filter (finally) last weekend and ever since the, the turbo has been super loud. Like any little bit of spooling was very audible. As the week progressed, I noticed the AFR was resting in the 16 range, and then last night and today, 17+. Also was getting a lot of misfires, died a couple times this morning, and just driving like shit. WOT was great though. Only thing I saw when I popped the hood was an exhaust mani bolt has started coming out.

Well today I'm flying home on the expressway and the car bogs, misfires, and is basically trying to die. EGTs go from ~1400* to ~400*. I then hear my downpipe hitting the ground. Shit. I was near my parents so I babied it home. Sounds like a big V8, metal scraping on the ground, and turbo making every sound very loud. Get there, and see this.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/0530091157a.jpg

Downpipe ended up cracking in the middle and breaking. I didn't notice this because of the exhaust wrap. I guess since I made the DP sit too low, all the hits it had taken finally wore it out and just snapped. Only thing holding it on were the sensors and like 2 threads of exhaust wrap. Fun.

Well I redid it today. Was going to make a whole new one but since I'm doing that later, just welded up the cracked pieces back together. I didn't rewrap though... just painted it. Actually turned out extremely well. While I was in there, finally welded my hood pins to the radiator support (no more loose, rattling things), and installed the MBC. The MBC I can't seem to get the boost to raise up. Sitting steady at 5psi. Have to look into that, but car is running great again with no problems, 14.7AFR again and sounding like it used to.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/0530091726a.jpg


Last but not least, bought an IM spacer. Supposed to drop temps in the intake or something, and got the stainless steel bolts to go along with it which are also supposed to help. We'll see.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/0530091915a.jpg

Haha, Ive had the same problem. My DP nuts backed off the studs on the o2 housing, and the DP hit the dirt....scary as S*** when your ballin on 95

Been getting some work done on the car.

MS is close to being finished getting wired up (for logging, not tuning). Been doing lots of reading on all the little details and shit, but so far so good. It's in the glovebox, and then just run a USB cable to my HP Mini when I need it. Thing threw a CEL for some reason when I first got it running, but it's since went a way. SAFC is completely disconnected, but still sitting in the dash. That'll come out soon and get sold. We had a good run, but now it's time to part ways.

I fixed the MBC; when I took it apart I installed the spring/ball backwards. I hit 15psi the other day and wow! Sadly, I can't run it like that because of the block and I think I'd be out of fuel very soon. Still working on bringing it down more.

Turbo was still whining pretty nicely after I fixed the downpipe, and realized I had a small pin-size leak at my joint. So fixed that today and it's quiet again and no leaks.

Small set back yesterday. Was racing a stock GSX on the expressway and the boost ended up spiking. Gauge read about 18psi... don't know how though. But I heard a loud pop and loud whooshing noise under the hood.

Was able to make it home with a terrible idle, and turned out I blew the throttle body gasket, and was letting in a huge amount of air. I don't know if this happened before or after, but the WG hose was also off. Don't know if it blew off or what but hopefully this is all fixed. Have to get some clamps for the hoses.



PS, I beat the GSX

Found a shop to do my dyno at. Decently close by, like 45 minutes away. Pricing is good too. Will take a day off or half day or something to get out there. My buddy in his is300 will be coming out to the dyno too. I'm making more power than he is right now, but he's modding it up nicely trying to beat me.

MegaSquirt is still only about half wired up. Just haven't had time to get things all together.

I busted my downpipe again all hardcore and will be fixing today when I get home. I'm going to buy a GST downpipe and just run with no cat until I need it in for whatever reason.

As far as the motor goes, just waiting for the clutch and FIs. I'm still going to pull the pistons again and doube check all my work, hopefully I'll get that done by this weekend. I'm listing a bunch of old parts this week so I can have some extra cash so I can order everything up. So by next week I should have everything else I need ordered up. The new turbo is sitting on top of my tv so each time I'm watching something I just see this thing starring at me like a sexy beast. Very motivational.

SO.... it won't be in before the meet. The week afterward though, is my new goal. Second week of August it's going in. I'll post some pics tonight of some random shit.

***Update***
Been making it happen, here's what's new:

Exhaust
-Got my 2.5" - 3" GST downpipe this weekend. I'm going to cut it up so it'll work with my car.
-3" cat-back came in. Huge 4.5" muffler tip on this thing. It just looks massive
-Have to make the turbo to DP sectional piece, so have some 2.5" pipe and flanges/gaskets coming in
-New rubber hangers and O2 bungs are all on order. Don't know what size the EGT bung is though.
-New WG flanges/pipe coming in

Hopefully I will do the exhaust this weekend if it's nice. I'm going to install a V-Clamp off the turbo at 2.5", then it's 3" after the flex pipe. No cat this time! Since the V-Clamp sticks out off the turbo even farther that just the flange and pipe, I'm going to move the Wastegate a little. You can see in the pics of my engine bay, the exhuast comes really close to hitting the WG pipe. So the WG will be on it's own little pipe sitting away from the exhaust hopefully.


Clutch
-Fidanza 8lb flywheel comes in today
-ACT clutch is already sitting at my house. After doing some reserch, it may be the wrong clutch though. We'll see once I get to the flywheel tonight. Won't be happy if it's not what they said it was. Is rated for ~412lbs of torque. Should be good enough :)
-Have to order longer Neon flywheel bolts for the new setup.


Fuel
-Found my extra fuel rail at my parents house, and it's a 95! For those who don't know, the 95s have a built in FPR and a return line. Easier to work with since my car is already setup for everything with that.
-I cut out the FPR and repaired the rail (small crack) with JB Weld.
-Will clean up some more and paint.
-Have to order fuel injectors either tomorrow or wednesday. But happening this week for sure.
-Replacing OEM fuel filter with aftermarket and using as much SS line as possible.


I'll be taking pics of everything this week I'm hoping. My place became a big mess again, and I like it.

Besides all the above, the car is running like absolute shit. I know a cylinder is just about gone because of the way it's running. I have oil all up in my vacuum lines going to the boost gaugse and MS which are tee'd off the IM. Mad exhaust leak somewhere (after the O2 sensors so I really don't care) and my passenger wheel bearing is def worse than before. And the clutch is slipping really bad. RPMs go up, car doesn't move. It's pretty bad. I've never driven a clutch before this car so I'm assuming that's the cluth slipping. On the plus side my gas-mileage is phenominal right now. Not sure what the deal is there. Not complaining though.

Whoa, sounds like you got alot of stuff going on. Good to hear you making progress. And yes that definately sounds like the clutch slipping, Im suprised its lasted this long. My stock clutch lasted about a day after I turboed it before it started slipping.

Whoa, sounds like you got alot of stuff going on. Good to hear you making progress. And yes that definately sounds like the clutch slipping, Im suprised its lasted this long. My stock clutch lasted about a day after I turboed it before it started slipping.

Ya I"m pretty excited to finally be pushing to finish this up. The clutch and the trans were less than a year old when I turboed so it was nice and fresh. Now, not so much.

Little stuff:
OBX Radiator hoses
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/P7250082Medium.jpg

Fidenza Flywheel
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/P7250081Medium.jpg

3" N1-style exhaust
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/P7250091Medium.jpg

Nice. I need to upgrade my exhaust

oooh very nice!

Looks great man. Sometimes I wish I had a real exhaust on the red car....but then again, i love loud, redneck, trashy sounding exhausts.

Looks great man. Sometimes I wish I had a real exhaust on the red car....but then again, i love loud, redneck, trashy sounding exhausts.

I was working on it yesterday and ended up having to move the car with just the DP coming off the turbo on and that thing is loud. Don't know what this new exhaust sounds like yet. My buddies were hoping for flames shooting out of it lol.

I was working on it yesterday and ended up having to move the car with just the DP coming off the turbo on and that thing is loud. Don't know what this new exhaust sounds like yet. My buddies were hoping for flames shooting out of it lol.

You could always cut the cat, and resonator pipe off, so then its straight pipe. :p

I need to get this going.... just blew the motor today :(

I started doing a compression test and only got half way through. Going from right to left: 120 and 90. When I did the 90, it smoked out from the piston. Also, when trying to get the spark plugs back in the 120... the heads keep breaking, so there's something in there for sure :(

I think I'm going to start pulling everything off this motor and rip it down to the block. When the Grand Am is finished, I'll push the Talon to my parents and then pull the block there. Should be easier that way right?

More details, where did it blow at and what were you doing? I hope you didn't damage the head at all.

More details, where did it blow at and what were you doing? I hope you didn't damage the head at all.

lawl... :lol:


My minds in the gutter tonight... :rolleyes:

lawl... :lol:


My minds in the gutter tonight... :rolleyes:

Wow, I didnt even read that much into it. Haha, after I read it again, I LOL'd.

But man, that sucks about the motor, woulda sucked worse if you didnt have a new one sitting in your garage.....um, kitchen. But yea, rip that old one apart so we can peep the carnage

I betting you cracked the ringlands, it happens to every boosted 420a on the stock bottom end eventually.

RIP 420a @ 127,000 miles

I was doing some work on her yesterday morning, did some waxing, and getting MSnS wired up more (is about done too) and fixing some vacumm leaks I had that were causing bad idle surge and took her for a test drive to make sure it was all back together good. Car was running great. Was pulling super hard so I kept pushing her a little more and more. Coming off an on-ramp back onto the expressway I punch it in 2nd and the car just sat there.

So while driving I kept her in 4th gear and was watching the laptop to see what was going on. I needed to get over lanes so I did with some power and then it started running bad. I got off close to home and on the exit ramp I popped it out of gear and it came close to dying. I turned on the street and there's a consistant knocking sound, like something hitting something. I took a side street blowing through all the stop signs. The knocking got louder. Sounds like something solid, and it raises with rpms. Doesn't sound like anything knocking around in the chamber or anything. The thing was dying when I had to stop and taking some time to crank back up.

I barely made it home and opened the hood. Seemed extremely hot under the hood for some reason, although IAT temps were at ~91*. Was a cool day. I revved it and sure enough you can hear the knocking from in the block. Look under the car and oil is leaking out. I can't see where since it's dripping on the cross-member and dripping off that then. And my lifts are at my parents. I'm thinking I spun a main bearing and it's the crank wobbling.


So I got impatient and started pulling it apart yesterday, no more than 7 hours after it blew. Was planning on having the head off today, but looks like I'll be getting drunk at a BBQ instead. But pulled the VC off and the cams and springs all look good. I really hope all the valves are good. Then I'll pull the head apart, get it all cleaned up and washed and it's going on the new block.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/0906091629.jpg
And yes that's part of the compression tester stuck in #3

damn dude whats been going on lately everyones cars dude

Hoping to have head pulled before Friday and cleaned up. Then I can get it on the block, and get all my timing done and set on the new motor. Basically will ge ready to just drop in. Found a place that rents hoists too so don't have to buy one anymore.

Part for my Grand Am is coming in the next couple days so will be working on that days not working on the Talon.

Fail Dave... You should have made something awesome from scratch just to show the world what DSMers are capable of. :lol:

Upper end is looking really good so far. Still nice and clean, cams were properly lubricated throughout their life so far, and looks like everything else is in good shape. All valves are still in their slots.

Hoping to have head off in next couple days, maybe even tomorrow. Just have to drain all the fluids and disconnect all the oil, coolant and fuel lines. Was doing this in the dark last night so didn't feel like playing with that then.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/P9110013Medium.jpg

Got the head pulled this morning in about 2 hours. Not bad at all. The head is in PERFECT shape. No damage to the valves at all, and no damage to the pistons neither, so whatever it is in definitely at the crank. All good since I'm not using it anyways.

As parts are coming off, I'll be painting everything. Also replacing everything with SS line. Here's all the pics for the day.

Pulled everything off altogether. Ya, it's heavy with one person.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/P9130055Medium.jpg

Valves all seated properly
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/P9130056Medium.jpg

Head gasket was slightly blown. Top right corner was destroyed and oil leaking between cylinders.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/P9130059Medium.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/P9130060Medium.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/P9130054Medium.jpg

No damage to cylinders from what I can see. No scorching or burns
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/P9130061Medium.jpg

I liked this pic
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/P9130064Medium.jpg

Old turbo and new one. First time I've got them side by side for comparison.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/P9130067Medium.jpg

Looks good man, when is the motor coming out of the car?? Im interested to see whats wrong with it.

Good job gettin her torn down, I hate that kind of thing.

Everything's been coming off pretty good so I've had no problems. Just trying to cheat the system and get as much as asap (like the head with everything still on it), but sometimes you just can't do that. Because of that, I was literally soaked in fuel yesterday when pulling shit off. Glad I don't smoke.

I stole a buddies car so will be taking all my parts and getting them pressure washed and clean up and putting on the block. Already have a couple things swapped over. So far all on the block all nuts and bolts are new and plan on continuing that. Thing should look sparkling when done.

On side note, Grand Am is getting the right part shipped out today so hopefully that'll be running this week (been saying that for a while now)

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/0915092044Medium.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/0915092043bMedium.jpg

lol i love the ktichen builds... and budweiser

Lol, yea the kitchen build is trill as hell. Things lookin great man, keep it up.

Did your old landlord ever catch you rebuilding a motor in the kitchen? I would be like wtf?!?!

He's never been inside the place actually since I moved in. He was going to check it out once around Easter but I denied him since the place was a mess. Never came back lol. God only knows what he would say. I make sure I move the stand around almost everyday so it doesn't leave marks in the floor. I have one that I'm hoping will pop up eventually.

Budweiser FTW... have to drink while doing this kinds of things :)

Nothing here is bolted together in the pics, just mocked it all up to make sure everything was good. I have some more cleaning to do on the head but I'm planning on have it altogether and timed by Sunday.

Didn't have a chance to work on it at all this weekend. All my tools are still at the garage. But everything is basically ready to get bolt on.

Got some new toys coming now too. Also been reading on how to repair the rusted out strut tower.

Look at the piston on the floor...did you forget to put that inside the engine? JK

Damn, that shits sexy man for real. Hope it runs good as it looks, if so it'll be a beast. What brand is that manifold?

Also, it looks like the external wastegate tube/flange is right at the turbo....or do you just have the turbo on backwards?

It's OBX brand. There's mixed feelings about this manifold but the price was right. Cheapest I've ever seen it for. Worth staying up late one night to win this shit.

Ya the WG runs right into the compressor. I think the turbo is too big :D Going to try to make a flange and use a little curved piece going up and around. Not sure how well that's going to turn out. It's a 4-bolt 40mm WG, but still going to use my Tial 38mm.

Can you have someone heat up the wastegate flange and just bend it up a little bit more so it will be easier to flange up the wastegate?

It's OBX brand. There's mixed feelings about this manifold but the price was right. Cheapest I've ever seen it for. Worth staying up late one night to win this shit.

Ya the WG runs right into the compressor. I think the turbo is too big :D Going to try to make a flange and use a little curved piece going up and around. Not sure how well that's going to turn out. It's a 4-bolt 40mm WG, but still going to use my Tial 38mm.

yea i figured it was an offbrand manifold. Its purty as hell but i didnt see a brand tag on it. Theres always mixed feelings on cheap manifolds, well turbo ones anyway. As cheap as it is its worth the try i guess. I ran 2 pacesetter mild steel manifolds on my car and they both cracked after a month. But yet pacesetter makes great headers for v8s. So you never know.

ned
I really dont think that that can be bent.

Your probably better off cutting it and turning it to a better angle, heating the metal enough to bend it would mess with the strength of it in that area

Ya I'm not going to try to heat it. Figure it may mess with the structural integrity of the piece. I ordered a flange and going to fab up a little extension piece. It may have a weird angle coming off of it. It's hard to find pics of this thing installed since not too many people have it, so I can't see how everyone else does it.

Not much update besides the motor is headed to the garage tomorrow. I'm sick of it being in the kitchen. There's not much more I can do, and it'll be easier to move now from the kitchen, through the house, down stairs, through a yard, onto the back of a pickup, and back off the back of a pickup as is, then all assembled. I was going to do timing but realized that I still need the crank sprocket off the existing one. So it'll be moved and completed at the garage now.

STILL waiting on coils for Grand Am. Piece of shit.

Talon made it the garage today.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/1003091150.jpg


Got pretty much everything pulled that I needed. I can't get the crank pulley off the old block and ended up cracking the UDP so now I have to buy a new one. New motor is together and nearing completion.

Where she sits now.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/david-b/Motor%20Build/1003091630b.jpg

Beautiful. Get us more pics asap.

When is the blown motor coming out?