ULTIMATE SCRATCHBUILD: 1:12 Hot Rod-Updated 03/12/06

Hey, I just read through the entire thread. I let it get long while on my own spring break and finally had a chance to read it.

First, this project is GREAT. I love the ambition, scope, and all the design, construction, and technical aspects it encompases. Your metal work skill is great.

A couple things though... I would go back to 1:8 scale. Why? Because of this. (http://www.revell-monogram.com/store/ModelDetail.cfm?Id=452&SubjectId=0&SkillId=0&ScaleId=4&TypeId=0&StartRow=1&FromSearch=1). You could totally lift the engine and wheels from it if you were so inclined. The engine especially. Also, before you start up on this next one, really sit down and try to make a list of every construction challenge you will meet along the way. Now, I know this is impossible, but try. Think about the doors, the hinges, how you are going to transfer drawing to metal, etc. Go sit in a car, look at every aspect of it and make notes. Inspect things like hinges... is there any hardware you can use in its place, something you could find at Home Depot or somewhere? Are the doors going to latch, how? Oh! Look at a real car door, how the skin sticks out about 1/2 beyond the door itself so the shut lines can line up and the door can open smoothly (I was wondering about that earlier in construction, before your post about the minor setbacks). If you need, take pictures of everything you can. Nothing sucks worse than wondering about something and not being able to find out about it 'till later. A project like this takes an enormous amount of research and planning. Any sort of scratchbuilding or fabricating does. I'd venture to say research time = planning time = construction time on a project like this.

This post isn't to harass you, just some things I noticed and wondered about throughout the thread. The door sill/jamb bit did end up biting you in the ass, and I hate to say it but it was almost expected. I really think you have plenty of skill, talent, and drive to do this model. I think if you plan it, extensively, before hand you'll come out with a winner that just falls together. Almost. But you get what I mean.

Plan plan plan, is all I can say. I spend many a class hour planing my models instead of paying the prof attention. It's actually my favorite part, building is just execution of the plan, the plan is the opus.

Good luck, I can't wait to see you start it up again. Your skills are incredible and your subject choice impeccable. Just fantasmagorique.

Thanks for the comments, I was hoping to hear from you. You are definately one of the major people I look up because your work is implicable.

1/8 scale? As a matter of fact I was looking at that kit last night, the only problem with that is the price tag.

I know what you mean with planning. I knew right from the start the doors were going to be what killed me. This time I will have the sking stick out from the door so its a nice clean closing. I also would like to have a latch, but that might get really complicated.

Planning, the last one I just shot at in the dark. I made a drawing and kind of shot from there, no measuring. Thats probably what ruined the project.

However, for this project I am going through extensive planning. As a matter of fact Im here at school, working on dimensions, measuring, etc. Scaling conversions, problems changing between scales, numerous sketches (actual 1/6, 1/8, 1/5 scale).

I have been making a list of everything that will have to be built:
Brakes Rotors
Brake Calipers
Fuel Lines
Brake Lines
Mounting brackets
and more, Ill make a complete list later.

If you want to try to save money maybe a curbside Roadster could help out.

If you want to try to save money maybe a curbside Roadster could help out.

That is most likely what I will do, the engine I have found in kits are expensive, or hard to find.

Yowz!
I haven't looked in on this in a while. A very ambitous project.
I think a much more 'do-able' project would be a re-body of the "big Duce" kit.

I don't doubt your skills, but I do think a smaller more manageable project would be more fulfilling. You could also scratch build a replacement frame, engine and wheels as time and money allowed, yet you would have a model on the shelf.

:p

Yowz!
I haven't looked in on this in a while. A very ambitous project.
I think a much more 'do-able' project would be a re-body of the "big Duce" kit.

I don't doubt your skills, but I do think a smaller more manageable project would be more fulfilling. You could also scratch build a replacement frame, engine and wheels as time and money allowed, yet you would have a model on the shelf.

:p

Smaller more managble project...I dont like easy things. I also like big things, and scratchbuilding. I have done work with real hot rods and scratchbuilding a few things isnt pleaseable.

I know small project would probably be the best, but I am enjoying this one.

You could just pop an RC engine in and it could be a scratchbuild fully operable Roadster!!!!!!!

You could just pop an RC engine in and it could be a scratchbuild fully operable Roadster!!!!!!!

Do you have any idea how pissed I would be if I wrecked the thing? :screwy:

_______________________

Whats new?

Drawing, drafting, scaling, measuring, converting, sketching, designing, and frustration.

That about sums it up.

Whats new?

Roughly 36hours of designing, drafting, measuring, scaling, and agonizing frustration the body design is done (this include top, and side views). I just need to dimension it, even thought its full 1/6scale.

Tommorrow I will start drafting the design for the frame. I am looking for a large pice of translucent paper to lay over the body drawings to draw the frane like a cross section.

I'll try to get pictures of the body design tommorrow morning before I start the frame design.

UPDATES:

Here are some pictures of the design so far. Sorry if the pictures dont work, both AF and my other image host are being screwy, so I have to use Tripod.:banghead:

Heres the design for the body, both top and side view (also a picture of the materials used).

Materials List:
Compass
Dividers
Mechanical Pencil
Aluminum Ruler
Tamiya Masking Tape (A million and one uses for)
Multiple Erasers (I have gone through 1 1/2 erasers so far)
Depth Gauge (Good because it measures in 1/32's" and 1/64's")
30-60-90 Triangle
Circle Template
Large Steel Square (Not Shown)

http://www.pichold.com/4/dscf0029.jpg

Top View (AKA Royal Pain, but so is everything else about this project)
http://www.pichold.com/4/dscf0031.jpg

Begining of frame design. Starting with the top since thats the major view. First thing I did was cut a 26" sheet of Crayola Paper (126'x11"). After that I tacked it in place right over the car with some Tamiya Masking tape. This paper is semi transparent so it works perfectly to draw the frame right on top of the car.

http://www.pichold.com/4/dscf0032.jpg

EDIT-Many thanks to Andrew (BlownCivic1320) for getting my picture problem straightened out!

Mike the pics dont work, load them to AF

Mike the pics dont work, load them to AF
I have been trying to. But I keep getting errors, everytime I get "Sorry, this image type (6) is not supported yet. "

:banghead:

IMAGE PROBLEM FIXED!

Now the pictures work for everyone to enjoy. Sorry for the delay.

Many thanks to BlownCivic1320 for sorting my image problem out!

Mike..that looks awesome dude! Alot better than I can draw...and hopefully...it'll turn out better than that plastic one revell is selling online for 100 and my lhs has for like 75 or so.

That looks very sexy GTmike. I love old roadsters. I got plans for a sweet lime green '32 Deuce Coupe.

Thanks for the comments guys! Thats definately a lot of motivation to work on it. Thanks for the confidence.

I really like this plan. A lot more than the old roadster. This one looks a lot sleeker than the last one too.

I have almost finished drawing and designing the chassis. I will be running to Home Depot or Lowes to get some 1/4" x 1/2" steel and some 1/8" round bar. But first I need to get a 1-1/2" wood dowl to make a mock differential.

Awesome plans, mike. I hope this one comes together more smoothly. Practice makes perfect.

Thanks Colin. This one should go together smoother since I have spent 48hours or so planning and calculating.

I went to Home Depot tonight and all I could find was channel. :banghead: So what Im thinking is taking some 3/8" channel and putting it in 1/2" to form a rectangular box the size I need.

http://www.pichold.com/4/channel.jpg

Nice work mike, may i suggest making a small scale 1/24 first of what you want this to look like that way you have the look your striving for, sorta like how construction companies do a small scale model of their new building just a uhm suggestion :eek7: .

also i do not know if this would fit i your model (style and engine type wise) but have you seen this
http://ehobbies.com/tes450.html

Nice work mike, may i suggest making a small scale 1/24 first of what you want this to look like that way you have the look your striving for, sorta like how construction companies do a small scale model of their new building just a uhm suggestion :eek7: .

I know what you mean, however I have loads and loads of reference pictures. This is a lot like a modified 32' Ford. I appreciate your input.

also i do not know if this would fit i your model (style and engine type wise) but have you seen this
http://ehobbies.com/tes450.html

:eek: OMG, thank you so much!!! I think im gonna order that. Thanks. Finnaly, a V8 thats 1/6scale and under $90. I owe you one.

excellent, you found a motor!does it come with a tranny?

No it doesnt. BTW, My freind built this, and he said there's one part to it that he didnt know what to do with. I can snap some pics of it tomorrow or whenever if ya want mike. It really is a nice motor. BTW, there is more than just the hemi, there is an LT1 or LT4, and a Z28 motor, I think like 4 total. So, if your a chevy person, you dont have to settle for the hemi!

No it doesnt. BTW, My freind built this, and he said there's one part to it that he didnt know what to do with. I can snap some pics of it tomorrow or whenever if ya want mike. It really is a nice motor. BTW, there is more than just the hemi, there is an LT1 or LT4, and a Z28 motor, I think like 4 total. So, if your a chevy person, you dont have to settle for the hemi!

Thanks man, pics would be great! Could you also get dimensions on the width, length and heigth?

Thanks!

Sure...Ill get it tomorrow, I'd do it now, but he's not home.

Sure...Ill get it tomorrow, I'd do it now, but he's not home.

Thanks man. Im waiting to start building until I know the dimension so I dont waste a bunch of stuff, including time.

Whats new?

I bought some 1/2"x1/2" 3/8" C-Channel today. 86_SR5 is going to get dimension of the HEMI Motor that may be used. I will begin making jigs, a miter, and maybe a lathe if I cant find one, soon.

No problem. Glad i could help out in some way. All i did was goto google click on froogle and typed 1/6 model engine kits there where many more that came up also, this was the cheapest tho.

No problem. Glad i could help out in some way. All i did was goto google click on froogle and typed 1/6 model engine kits there where many more that came up also, this was the cheapest tho.

After 86_SR5 gets me those dimensions, and it fits. Then I will slap it on my B-Day list.:iceslolan

Shoot Mike, I was checking out that engine at my hobby shop, I didn't even think to suggest it!

Mike...might be a delay. I called him today to make sure it was okay to come over, to see if he had plans, and he'll be out of town till wednesday, so, I should have it by thursday, if your still interested, that is.

Mike...might be a delay. I called him today to make sure it was okay to come over, to see if he had plans, and he'll be out of town till wednesday, so, I should have it by thursday, if your still interested, that is.

Im absolutely still intrested, I have time for a motor that looks great. If it means setting back a couple days for a wonderful motor, than so be it. I appreciate you even running over.

Whats new?

This afternoon, homework permitting, I will work on making the first jig for this project. The jig will be uses to cut the C-Channel in half evenly. The C-Channel I bought (4040Aluminum) happened to be 1/2"x1/2" with a 3/8" channel. I need the C-Channel to be 1/2"x1/4" so I will slice off a quarter inch on the the "open" part of the C.

After cutting the C-Channel, time permitting, I will create another jig used for cutting special angles, technically its a miter.

So I think this project will be much better off with the planning and thorough design of it. Especially with so much time put into designing to make sure everything is perfect, and creating proper jigs for accuracy and symmetry.

Hopefully within 2 weeks I will have a god bit to show at the next ACME meeting.

Wow, Mike you went and turned all professional design scale modeling on me.

Awesome project and it shows how much dedication and discipline you have.

Heck I gave up model cars before I even got started, because I wanted cool looking rides w/ lowered suspension and custom wheels and didn't want to spend that amount of time for (wheels suspension mods).

I just got back into modeling because I have like 10 kits in my closet and I figure I just build them stock now.

You take care.

I will be watching your build.

not bad mike. if you can make this one and habe better luck. well i give you lots of credit. i am likeing how you are starting with a chassis. you should have started with a chassis for your old 1/12th scale car but now you know what to do the plan look better you might pull this one off

Wow, Mike you went and turned all professional design scale modeling on me.

Awesome project and it shows how much dedication and discipline you have.

Heck I gave up model cars before I even got started, because I wanted cool looking rides w/ lowered suspension and custom wheels and didn't want to spend that amount of time for (wheels suspension mods).

I just got back into modeling because I have like 10 kits in my closet and I figure I just build them stock now.

You take care.

I will be watching your build.

Thanks for the comments Al, its good to hear from you. Glad to see you watching my thread, its great encouragement.

not bad mike. if you can make this one and habe better luck. well i give you lots of credit. i am likeing how you are starting with a chassis. you should have started with a chassis for your old 1/12th scale car but now you know what to do the plan look better you might pull this one off

Thanks Bryce. The last project I didnt start off from the ground up was because I was going for a specificly defined look that could not be put on paper, only metal. I figured I could design the frame around that. I will pull this one off, I am determined.

UPDATES:

Well, this is not the most enjoyable part of the proccess, cutting 1/4" off the sides. Made a jig, that wasnt so bad. Began to cut. 3 hours later I have cut 5 feet.

Now the cleaning proccess begins. The cuts are a little "wavy" so I need some way to level them out. I started with a file, 45minutes and I havent gotten anywhere. So I busted out the Dremel, that wasnt a help either. With a rough sanding wheel, I was able to "clean" and "smoothen" 6 inches and the bit was destroyed.

Any suggestions on cleaning up the cuts (leveling them out)? Im out of ideas, and dont really want to spend 45 minutes with a file to get nowhere.

Anyway, I know you guys are pic hungry, so heres a pic of the jig.
http://www.pichold.com/4/cuttingjig.jpg

Mike, here's some eye candy. I personally didn't take these pictures. Adam, the guy who has the HEMI came to my house today and took some pics of the motor, I told him that you needed dimensions and this is what he gave me. Also, I have access to the motor, as I'll be caretaker of his cat until he comes back.

Full length of engine including from the tip of the header forward to the edge of the fan: 6'' inches

5 1/2'' inches from the bottom of the sump to the top of the aircleaner

4 3/4'' inches total widith (including headers)

1 1/2'' wide by 1 1/4'' long oil sump (just the sump, not the whole pan)

The block itself is 4 1/2'' inches long

These measurements he said, are given a little leway, so you'll know how big to make your bay for a ''tight'' squeeze. If there's anything else, give specifics so I know what to look for...

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/5/web/449000-449999/449738_290_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/5/web/449000-449999/449738_289_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/5/web/449000-449999/449738_292_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/5/web/449000-449999/449738_293_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/5/web/449000-449999/449738_294_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/5/web/449000-449999/449738_295_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/5/web/449000-449999/449738_296_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/5/web/449000-449999/449738_297_full.jpg

Mike, here's some eye candy. I personally didn't take these pictures. Adam, the guy who has the HEMI came to my house today and took some pics of the motor, I told him that you needed dimensions and this is what he gave me. Also, I have access to the motor, as I'll be caretaker of his cat until he comes back.

Full length of engine including from the tip of the header forward to the edge of the fan: 6'' inches

5 1/2'' inches from the bottom of the sump to the top of the aircleaner

4 3/4'' inches total widith (including headers)

1 1/2'' wide by 1 1/4'' long oil sump (just the sump, not the whole pan)

The block itself is 4 1/2'' inches long

These measurements he said, are given a little leway, so you'll know how big to make your bay for a ''tight'' squeeze. If there's anything else, give specifics so I know what to look for...


:naughty: Ohhhhh yeaaaaaaa. Thank you so much man, I owe you one. I am going to go grab my designs and check the dimensions. Sounds like it will fit.

A specific I would like to know, what is the degree and size of the cams? :lol:

Gotta' go check the fitting, be back in ten to announce!

The cams...hmm..well, If I still had desktop dyno 2k, I could tell ya!

I got that 1/6 hemi too. It's sweet as hell!

Well Im lucky. I need to modify the curvature of the hood and top view of the chassis. It not that big of a deal. I need to add roughly 13/16" to give it roughly 3/32" clearence.

Hey 86,
Can you get me dimensions on where the engine mounts are, or would be? Like the width of them? And possibly take a picture of the bottom?

I really appreciate this, I dont want to get way ahead of myself and build it just to rebuild it to have an engine. The car is basically be designed around the engine.

UPDATES:

Well, this is not the most enjoyable part of the proccess, cutting 1/4" off the sides. Made a jig, that wasnt so bad. Began to cut. 3 hours later I have cut 5 feet.

Now the cleaning proccess begins. The cuts are a little "wavy" so I need some way to level them out. I started with a file, 45minutes and I havent gotten anywhere. So I busted out the Dremel, that wasnt a help either. With a rough sanding wheel, I was able to "clean" and "smoothen" 6 inches and the bit was destroyed.

Any suggestions on cleaning up the cuts (leveling them out)? Im out of ideas, and dont really want to spend 45 minutes with a file to get nowhere.

Anyway, I know you guys are pic hungry, so heres a pic of the jig.
http://www.pichold.com/4/cuttingjig.jpg

hmm, do you have a die grinder? or anything like that? that could work. i have used a die grinder for similar things and made nice cuts. a dremel with a cut off wheel should work.

that engine looks great, i hope when you buy yours mike you chrome it out, and add more details! make it like a boyd style motor all chrome!?

He'd have to paint all the orange and black, because that's pre-painted. Mike....engine mounts. Im assuming you want to fabricate them, right? My guess would be right behind on the oil pan sump above the oil pan in about a (not scaled down) 2'' by2'' metal mount. This is purely guess.

hmm, do you have a die grinder? or anything like that? that could work. i have used a die grinder for similar things and made nice cuts. a dremel with a cut off wheel should work.

that engine looks great, i hope when you buy yours mike you chrome it out, and add more details! make it like a boyd style motor all chrome!?

As a matter of fact I might run to Lowes and look for better Dremel bits. I tried the cutting wheel but it was taking way to long. 8" in 30 minutes.

I will definately customize the motor. I will strip the paint (sorry Hemi lovers) and polish and chrome it. And detail what ever left possible.

Mike....engine mounts. Im assuming you want to fabricate them, right? My guess would be right behind on the oil pan sump above the oil pan in about a (not scaled down) 2'' by2'' metal mount. This is purely guess.

Yes I will be fabricating some engine mounts. Just trying to get some ideas to see how deep Im in. How long is the oil pan?

If you dont mind, shots of the bottom of the motor would be excellent and greatly appreciated.

awsome chrome it out with alcalad II!!! that would be sweet, do some custom headers, and air filter ect....

awsome chrome it out with alcalad II!!! that would be sweet, do some custom headers, and air filter ect....

Yea. I will grab some Alclad II #105 Polished aluminum and #107 Chrome. Im going to paint the engine block with polished alumium. I think brushed/polished blocks look really good. Also, that way there isnt too much chrome (yes there is such a thing).

Also I will need to do custom headers for it. The only thing that will slow the flow of exhaust is some scratchbuilt catalytic converters, screw mufflers.

Im not sure what I want to about the Airfilter though, maybe a Quad duce.

May I make a suggestion that might save you A LOT of time and hassle?

http://www.smallparts.com/

If they don't have it, they can make it for you. If they can't make it...you can't get it...anywhere ;-)>

HTH,
Bill

i think the whole point of this project is to actually build everything himself... takes the fun out of it if you "cheat" and buy the parts

Did you scope the site? Seemed like scratchbuilding heaven. I can't imagine GTMike wanting to machine and thread nuts and bolts, but I wouldn't be surprised if he used them.

Anyway; Coolest site in the world!! I wish they had a store so I could run around and look at everything. There's some cool stuff there.

maybe try to use an electric blade (IE Band Saw?) to cut the pieces instead of a hand saw....it will take less time and possibly make the cuts less wavy.

there is a big thing like a dremel that you uses when you work with real cars... in sweden we cal it a rodell... and with that thing you also can take down edges it is just to switch the wheel...

Nice progress so far!

and nice choise on engine... but there is a chevy 350cui with a nicer ar filter just seartch on google for 1/6 engines and there you have it.=P
but i will ceep my eys on your progress=)

May I make a suggestion that might save you A LOT of time and hassle?

http://www.smallparts.com/

If they don't have it, they can make it for you. If they can't make it...you can't get it...anywhere ;-)>

HTH,
Bill

Thanks for the site, I wish I found that sooner, they have metal in the sizes I need :banghead:.

i think the whole point of this project is to actually build everything himself... takes the fun out of it if you "cheat" and buy the parts

Correct, I will build a majority of the stuff, except for nuts, tires, and engine. Still a good site for materials.

Did you scope the site? Seemed like scratchbuilding heaven. I can't imagine GTMike wanting to machine and thread nuts and bolts, but I wouldn't be surprised if he used them.

Anyway; Coolest site in the world!! I wish they had a store so I could run around and look at everything. There's some cool stuff there.

I scoped through a few pages of it, I look through it thoroughly tonight. My brother is a skateboarder, and loves Techdeck boards, and hes broken about 20 of them. I talked to him and he said I could have a majority of all his spare nuts and bolts.

maybe try to use an electric blade (IE Band Saw?) to cut the pieces instead of a hand saw....it will take less time and possibly make the cuts less wavy.

I was going to use my band saw, but right when I was getting ready to change the blade I noticed my metal blade was no longer a circle. :banghead:

there is a big thing like a dremel that you uses when you work with real cars... in sweden we cal it a rodell... and with that thing you also can take down edges it is just to switch the wheel...

Nice progress so far!

and nice choise on engine... but there is a chevy 350cui with a nicer ar filter just seartch on google for 1/6 engines and there you have it.=P
but i will ceep my eys on your progress=)

Yes, I know what you are talking about they are called Pneumatic Grinders. I was going to use that too, but thats at my other shop. :banghead: My dad took over the basement shop to make some stupid shutters for the house and he cleared everything out, so I have to work around him.

Ohh, that's a good idea for the bolts. Sucks about your band saw.

Mike..Id personnally do leg pipes off the headers, also, there are mufflers that give way more power than catalytic converters. As far as the chrome engine..just leave the vavlecovers matt black!!

327 vette: http://www.skymall.com/webapp/skystore?process=prodDisplay&action=&pid=102091988&catId=97297156

1/6 chevy 350: http://www.skymall.com/partner/marriott?process=prodDisplay&action=&pid=102091990&catId=97297156

Mike..Id personnally do leg pipes off the headers, also, there are mufflers that give way more power than catalytic converters. As far as the chrome engine..just leave the vavlecovers matt black!!

I just dont want to pollute the air, I want noise.

Im gonna have to paint the Valve covers, I dont know. Ill see how the Matte black looks.

327 vette: http://www.skymall.com/webapp/skystore?process=prodDisplay&action=&pid=102091988&catId=97297156

1/6 chevy 350: http://www.skymall.com/partner/marriott?process=prodDisplay&action=&pid=102091990&catId=97297156

Nice links. I still think the Hemi looks better, dont you agree?

Yea... but, I'm a chevy person...so, in that aspect, no. Guess get whichever is easier to get ahold of. BTW. I tried getting the stand off the motor today, but it's been screwed and epoxied on there, so I don't think it's coming off.

Yea... but, I'm a chevy person...so, in that aspect, no. Guess get whichever is easier to get ahold of. BTW. I tried getting the stand off the motor today, but it's been screwed and epoxied on there, so I don't think it's coming off.

Theres a new invention called a hammer. :evillol:

hey mike i saw a guy up had a 350 chevy and the vette motor. i would look into those rather then the hemi! the chevy is way better! or even the vette is sweet

hey mike i saw a guy up had a 350 chevy and the vette motor. i would look into those rather then the hemi! the chevy is way better! or even the vette is sweet

I dont believe they are as high quality. Also, I already have dimensions for the 426, thats why Im going with it. Also, I have beter access to purchase the 426 rather the than the others.