Junkies 97 RS Rebuild(1st timer!)

I tried to use standard ones...Tried to use metric ones...neither will fit for some reason. Took the nuts to napa and they couldnt match it up...its weird. These nuts will slip right on...metric and standard nuts the same size wont go past 2 threads b4 it stops and wont go on any further...im genuinly confused.

:eek7:

Not to mention fastenal couldn't match them he said it was a hard one to find...and they've never not had something that I needed in the past...If they don't have something of the equivalent...then I don't know what to do..

I don't know too terribly much about bolt threads beyond standard and metric and pitch and all that but could this nut be something special beyond what I might know about...like a different kind

Its probably just an uncommon pitch. Did you try to use the bolt thing at advance? It has just ab every bolt made so you should be able to at least identify the thread pitch. If you have a caliper you may be able to measure the bolt to see what it is

Its your car and your call, but I personally would not even start the car with improperly torqued cam bolts. I say helicoil. Why risk it? I mean, you wouldnt drive the car with the main bolts loose.

Well the lady at napa went into the back so I didnt see what she was doing but im sure she was using one of those bolt thread size charts...just dont know maybe how big theirs is....or how many she tried b4 giving up. So the one at advance has a big one to try? Ill go over there tom. noon and see ifI can match anything up. I'll have to be careful given the location of the bolt hole...and what can I do about metal shavings? Keeping them out of the head I mean...like could I use lots of tape and a shop vac and be really careful?

Also,

-Is thread locking the helicoil a good idea?

-I'm confused as to how you would break that little piece off the bottom of the helicoil after its been inserted...and get it out...Jason...how have you done this in the past on your head?

-Does the length of the helicoil need to be as long as the bolt hole that its going into? The only helicoils I see are like little pieces... not the length that the bolt goes into the hole...does that matter?

Hey this is cheaper than the store bought ones....is this everything I need minus the drill bit?

http://cgi.ebay.com/M6-X-1-00-Perma-Coil-Thread-Repair-Kit-Uses-Helicoil-/290443255770?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item439fc45fda

Shop vac should be good for the metal shavings. I would say block the oil passages going down to the block as well with paper towels or something. Or even better yet, if you have another person helping, have someone hold the shop vac at point where you're drilling, so the shavings instantly get sucked up.

I always leave the little piece in the hole. No oil will be in the bolt hole so it doesn't matter. As long as the bolt isint bottoming out on it your fine.

Damn!! :headshake

Well....i've determined that the engine sounds completely fine. Turned it over with no coil pack connection and it turned fine with no odd noises or anything...

Now when I run the engine, it makes a few noises i'm nervous about lol. The top end is ticking steadily...could be the lifters still though because I don't know how long it takes for that noise to fade out..

Next, the most serious problem, is the sound that seems to be coming from the transmission side of the car. When the clutch pedal is not pressed, it makes one loud sound, then if I press the clutch all the way in, the sound quitens, but makes a scrubbing sound when the clutch is pressed in far as possible. What could this be? I don't understand how there could be a problem in the area that I didn't do much to during this build lol.

I didn't drive it or anything, just idled it. Also the turbo charger (hotside) got really really hot. I mean I know its supposed to but, I didn't think it would get this damn hot just idling for a few minutes...is that anything to do with the wastegate being left open?

:uhoh:

Hmm, I have yet to build and engine so I'm not too sure why the lifters would be ticking. For my own knowledge: Does anyone know if it takes awhile for them to pump up? Are you supposed to soak them in oil or something before hand?

Hmm, not familiar at all with the modular style clutches on the 420a's

As far as the turbo...it is an exhaust component so its going to get very hot after idling for any amount of time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR4tq-fh0Og


This is the link to the video for my first start up

The hot side is hot? Supposed to be ;)

If you're still using the same lifters you were using before, they should still be soaked. I'm going to guess you didn't even take them out of the head right? They shouldn't be making any noise. Only new ones really need to be soaked

I took the lifters out and drained them using a vise, then put them back in as instructed, I was told there would be a ticking for a little while but it would fade out. After I ran the motor for a few mins last night I stopped it and took the valve cover off and checked to make sure everything was good(while investigating the mysterious noise) everything seemed to be ok under there.

Like I said, I turned the motor over many many times with no spark and it sounded like it came brand new off the lot at the dealership, I really think the motor is good. The noise I can't find seems to be coming from the clutch area. I seriously don't understand how it could be making noise though...the trans is freshly rebuilt by aamco so I know thats fine, it was running like a sewing machine b4 the motor went out. The clutch is brand new(replaced when I had the trans reconditioned) and the flywheel/flexplate was ok, wasn't cracked or anything. The only thing I question at this point is the imput shaft, TOB, the fork, and thats all I can think of.
:uhoh:

Now when I put it all back together, I just slid the clutch onto the imput shaft, and the flywheel was obviously olted to the motor already, and I slid the motor into place during install, and then lined up the bolt holes for the clutch and rotated the flywheel to get to each bolt hole and torqued the bolts in one at a time. I dunno if this was the bad way to do it but thats how I did it...

Either way, I think the transmission is coming out tonight for some investigation.

Any imput from anyone would be greatly appreciated :iceslolan

DAMN! That sucked for my first time doing it, but I got it out! The transmission took about 4 hrs to get it out...I guess that's not too bad. It finally popped out of there. Turns out, the 2 tabs on the TOB...one was missing, and the tob was moving all around making noise. Also, for some reason, the transmission bell housing wasn't all the way sealed up against the engine...Which I think caused everything to to be off and the flywheel rubbed against the inside of the bell housing just a bit. I think it was just a case of everything not being lined up correctly. Nothing was damaged at all though. Just need yet another tob. Oh and a shift fork boot. And 3 new mounts.

Hey should I get stock mounts or go ahead and upgrade? Do they aggrivate you as far as a smooth ride if you do? Bc if so I may just get stockers

Are you talking motor mounts? The regular rubbers are nice and smooth. Solid inserts affectt ride quality quite a bit. It took me about a month before I got used to mine. If you're going to be driving everyday as a DD, rubbers are fine. However, the solids so help with wheel hop and keep the wheels on the ground a little better.

Glad nothing was really majorly messed up. That should be all you need right there.

I love my urethayn mounts. When the car is idling at 800rpms, the whole car shakes cause of the mounts and bs removal. Plus great for hole shots.

Dave, could you kindly direct me to a set of the inserts on ebay...the right ones that I need. Do I just knock out the rubber inserts that are in the mounts now?


:cwm27:

The trans and front (timing blet side) and full inserts. the back and front rollers the rubber stays in and the mounts sit over them.

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m570.l1313&_nkw=420a+mount&_sacat=See-All-Categories

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Motor-Mount-Inserts-Mitsubishi-Eclipse-4G63-4G64-420A-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1e54378ebaQQitemZ13026 1946042QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries

What confused me is I didnt understand whether or not the 4g63's and 420a's used the same mounts...bc they are advertised as the same

Also, just for shits and giggles, thought it might be important to put up here...I JUST put in new trans fluid as some of you know. B4 the car broke down, the transmission was like 2 months old(had just been fully reconditioned) and it drove absolutely perfect. When I decided to pull the trans off last night, I drained the fluid into a pot to reuse it, and it was full of swirls on the surface(tiny metal particles). After several hours it had sunken to the bottom, so I used a ink pen to stir the fluid and it came all back up to the surface so its def. metal. The weird thing is I have no clue how it got in there or where it could have come from...The trans is fine...I rotated the imput shaft and it worked flawlessly and without binding or noise. Put new fluid in a few days ago, and pulled it right back out without operating the car at all and this is what I got. It looks like it all came out because there was tons of it and by the time it stopped draining the metal had stopped coming out. It's just weird to me. The only thing I can think is that it wasn't flushed properly when it was rebuilt...or something who knows...

And they weren't big chunks or anything. Just like microscopic particles that formed swirls on the surface of the fluid.

Im not too familiar with rebuilding manual transmissions, but I imagine its just metal from the break-in process, probably nothing to worry about.

I drained my tranny fluid and saw some tiny particles but I know the tranny has been rebuilt so I'm sure it was nothing to worry about. Tranny shifts fine so don't worry about it, I wouldn't!

Yeah so I figured...it shifts fine...and I spun the imput shaft around, and it rotates just fine. Prob just from the break in. Scared me at first though lol. TOB comes in monday and I also ordered all new mounts so, that will all go back in monday or tuesday, then i'm gonna restart the car!

:icon16:

Anything there's metal-on-metal contact/rubbing, there will almost always be metal particles after the break in. Perfectly normal

Waiting on parts...Throw out bearing...ball joints, rear control arms(a lot of stuff thats worn out) and a few other odds and ins. Also new fluid and clutch fork boot

Replaced tie rods, ball joints, some other stuff. Waiting for the clutch fork boot and new throw out bearing...then the trans will go back on. Updates when something happens!

You will be boostin' soon!!

havent boosted in 7 months...im still going through withdrawals

Hey my laptop is messed up for whatever reason so im using my phone, sorry if puncuation and grammer is bad! Well I finally got the car back together today. All parts and fluids. Started it up and the engine runs fine other than the idles a little jumpy and theres an exhaust leak. Not worried about that. What does worry me is the now different sound coming from the transmission area. I KNOW I installed the tob and trans. and everything else dead on, I cant for the life of me figure out why its making noise now. Grew some balls and drove it and broke it in a little, then did the 10 or so 3rd gear pulls to seat the rings. After that, I got the car up to about 4k and went about 65. Engine sounded great I was happy with that. Got it back home and parked it. :ears the characteristics of the noise: At idle, with the clutch in no sound is made. With the clutch out, it sounds like ch ch ch ch ch ch. When driving. it makes all sorts of faint sounds, nothing solid, but almost like shrill moans. When I was doing my 3rd gear pulls, when I would go fast2, then let the car coast,it sounded like the trans was 'whining' as the car got slower and slower. Watcha think?

Its clutch chatter. Does it go away when you press the clutch in? You get this in almost all aftermarket clutches. Its bc stock clutches have anti rattle springs in the hub and aftermarket are solid hubs. It sounds like my motor is knockin like a bitch when its idling with the clutch out.

So how do you get rid of clutch chatter? It wasnt doing it before...thats whats weird about it.

Got megasquirt 80% installed(thanks to Dave(from chicago)). Gonna do some more sodering and get it ready to be tuned.

Engine ran fine when I drove it and broke it in other than the timing is slightly off...


(sigh)

You cant get rid of it. Like I said it has to do with the disc you put in is not absorbing the gear noise from the tranny. Its not a big deal, its something you have to deal with when making real power. If you have adjustable cam gears use those to correct timing. If its only off a tooth it wont hurt anything. I drove my car for 1k miles with the timing off before I even knew it. A compression test keyed me in to the timing being off.

I'm working on the final wiring for your car dude. I'll have it to you sometime this week. 97s have weird pin layouts.

Cams are non-adjustable. Would have done that when I was there. I think it may be off a little more than just 1 tooth, or at least on both cams. One tooth will make the car run bad, but yours really wasn't holding idle too well. Compression test or do the straw test. Wish I had more time out there to do that.

ha the straw test. Guess my method is now famous. That really isin't going to tell you much just that the cams are or aren't 180 off. You probably wont be able to tell if its a tooth off or not

Ok thanks....started sodering in the wires tonight for the ms harness. Gonna just leave the 2 fuel inj wires loose and let the tuners do whatever they have to do with it. But I will go ahead and do the rest and also install all the gauges b4 I turn it over to them. It sucks that I have to set the timing and if I didn't do it right the first time then it's guesswork at this point...lol. easiest way is to just unbolt the tensioner and compress it again right? Good opportunity to replace it... is there a trick to setting it just right? Besides lining the marks up?Obviously that didn't work out too well for me lol. And as for the clutch, why would it not make the noise b4 my build...like at all....ran completely quiet. and now after my build its noisy at idle...this is bugging me to death....makes me kind of angry that I pulled the trans off to fix it but that didnt do anything...I know for a fact the tob went back on the clutch fork and everything went back in perfectly. The trans lined up with the motor perfectly. .........=/

Tensioner does have to come off. I have my used tensioner (about 5,000 miles on it) that you can have if you want. It's like new.

Something I do when timing is I look at the head totally flat and make sure the lopes on the cams that are facing up and straight up. I'll use a flat edge to check that. Maybe pull the valve cover and look when motor is TDC to see if the lopes facing up are 100% up. I forget which cylinders at TDC are facing straight up, but can get that info if you need. Would tell if the cams are installed right.

I'm home tonight after a work BBQ so I'll finsh up the wiring diagram. I'll send it over when done.

Took the car to Epic Motorsports here in NC...they told me they would begin working in it Monday, and I should have it back by the end of next week so...not too bad...just excited to finally start driving it again(been driving a crown vic!!!)



:iceslolan

Is the motor broken in all the way? Hope they get it running good for you. How much boost you going to be pushing?

No it's not broken in but they aren't tuning it yet, just a few odds and inns like getting my air fuel gauge to function properly lol. I gave up on that one. As for boost, it ran between 19-20 b4 my build so...someday maybe a little more than that?

Ok, update time.

Got a call from the shop working on my car. The news is as follows:

They got my air/fuel gauge working(I couldnt seem to get it to function correctly like the rest of the gauges).

The timing was off just slightly, so they are gonna set that.

And for the grand finale, the mysterious noise which has been coming from my transmission has been found! Apparently, on the other end of the imput shaft which is inside the trans, that you cant see, has a part on it that somehow got damaged or bent, from what I could tell that the guy was telling me. I can't remember if he said it was a pulley or something, whatver it is, they are gonna replace it. I deduced that its more than likely from me trying to get the motor back in after the build, when I knew I was putting stress on the shaft...like I had this feeling I was doing it...that must be it.

So thats where it stands. Then when Dave breezes thru good ol' NC again i'm gonna call snatches on some talon parts ;)