Junkies 97 RS Rebuild(1st timer!)

Ok, so follow the torque spec listed in the book? Or tighten it harder than that

Ok, can somebody tell me why the throw out bearing I got from mitsubishi doesnt fit ont he imput shaft at ALL? ITs way too big, and doesnt even look remotely the same as the one that was on it...is there something im missing? (new one on left)
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6017/p1020023.jpg (http://img440.imageshack.us/i/p1020023.jpg/)

I don't remember what the torque was. Las time I did it I wedged the motor so it couldn't turn and tightened the bolt with a tire-iron. Not right, but it got the job done.

Ya that's not the right TOB at all. New one will look exactly like the one on the right. Should be no variation between the 2. Take it back.

Dammit

I used an impact gun to tighten mine, not super tight but just enough to run the pulley up the rest of the way and snug it good. That bearing isin't even a TOB, it looks like a bearing for the inside of the tranny

yeah, now i have to drive an hour back to the dealership, and prob again to pick up the new one....


errrrrr

It almost looks like it would fit inside the tb, like it's the inner guts that we can't see. Sure it's not but just an observation.

Ok...made some progress tonight. camshafts came out, rocker arms, timing cover, idler pulley, tensioner pulley, tensioner(do I need another one of these?) oil pan and water pump.

Which leads me to my next 2 questions.

Dont have the right socket for the head bolts, can someone who knows tell me what size I need so I can get the right one the first time and avoid several trips to sears lol..

And, the crank sprocket has to come off before I can go any further in that area, any suggestions how to do this? I cant find it int he manual how to actually remove it, it just says "remove it".....

If headbolts are ARPs they are 12 point 14mm or 9/16.

Remove the pulley with a steering wheel pulley I believe, you have to find one that just has slots so you can put screws threw it and tighten them down then back it off. I dont remember the size of the top of my head but I believe they are m6x1.0 possilby. This is a tricky one to get off

Great....lol. A steering wheel puller?

Same thing I used. Found some bolts that fit into it which I believe Jason is right on the size, and then went to Ace and got some really long ones. It's actually not too bad. The puller itself you can rent. Buying it is only like $20 or so. Mine has already paid for itself twice lol.

Ok, got all the stuff you guys mentioned. Gonna try it all tonight. Do i use the impact wrench on the crank sprocket as well?

Ok, the crank sprocket came off WAY easier than id imagined it would lol. Took like 10 mins of fiddling with the puller and pieces....and it came right off the first time. Invaluable help guys!

Next, the 14mm and 9/16 was a tad too big, so i exchanged for a 13 and a 1/2, which fit perfect, so close enough lol.

Updates later!

Nice nice. Glad it worked good. It's nice having people who've been there, done that before eh? Keep it going.

Dude, I wouldnt be where im at without you guys for sure. Im totally rocking a auto forums sticker when im done.

Also, its funny, I noticed yesturday how many more tools I have now than b4 I started, going back and forth to sears ect. lol

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/4269/p1020026b.jpg (http://img682.imageshack.us/i/p1020026b.jpg/)
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http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/3470/p1020028i.jpg (http://img638.imageshack.us/i/p1020028i.jpg/)

Looking good man, pistons have a lot of buildup on them so be sure to clean that off with a wire brush before putting it back together. I dont see any knock damage on the pistons which is a good thing, shouldn't have a problem reusing those. How many miles are on the motor? Are you planning on reusing the rings?

Planning on? Yes. lol, if they arent damaged. Um...Well the cars mileage and the mileage on the internals are different bc the owner b4 me did the internal work. So id say the engines internals prob have about 60-75k somehwere in there not sure, so its not TOO much. Whats the best way to clean this stuff? Under running water? When I was in school for this we had a parts washer...with running oil

Also, the bolts on the rod caps...are they 12 pnt 12mm? None of my 6 pnt sockets will fit...gotta run to the store.

Sounds right.

Oh you sent a blank PM BTW.

Oops...I said can I just mail you the $ bc my paypal doesnt work right now lol.

Gas and a wire brush worked well for me.

Damn, 12mm socket didnt fit the caps...little too big.

Ok, I have a few questions.

1)The car wont go into 5th gear, is that supposed to be like that? Like the shifter wouldnt move over far enough to even go into 5th...is it soemting i disconnected for the engine to come out?

2)Do I need to buy a new one of those big oil seals that goes on the back of the crank?

3)Do I need a new oil pick up or just clean the one out that I have(even tho its filled with pieces of the chewed up bearing)

1) I don't remember having any problems with gears when I pulled mine. Is there anything obstructing the shifter linkage in the bay?

2) Are you talking the rear main seal, on the tranny side? Yes, would replace that since you're in there. Make sure you read how to install that properly. If installed wrong, it will leak.

3) Clean it out, if the screen is bad, then replace. But if the pieces didn't damage anything, then you'll be good.

Ok. Ill investigate this 5 th gear problem. It kinda scares me. Theres no reason it shouldnt be going into gear...

Why are you trying to put in it gear when the motor is out of the car. If the tranny isint perfectly lined up as it sits when the motor is in it could be causing the issue. Did 5th work before taking the motor out?

Clean out the oil pick up like dave said, I would replace that oil pump also. It may have been damaged with all that metal floating around in there.

Yeah ive already got a new oil pump. So, I just took the rods out(and for anyone wondering, it ended up being an 11mm 12 pnt for the caps) and you can see where 2 rods look like they were burnt up...including the one that produced the chewed up bearing. I dont know EXACTLY what to look for, but I do know that the cylinder walls look like they werent damaged at all so...ill post some pictures and u guys can see everything for yourselves...

Next weekend I get paid, and i'm taking the block and stuff to a machine shop.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5322/p1020041e.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/i/p1020041e.jpg/)
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7048/p1020042v.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/i/p1020042v.jpg/)
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http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/3246/p1020046w.jpg (http://img265.imageshack.us/i/p1020046w.jpg/)
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So you can see the two rods that look burnt up lol...

The cylinders, although you cant tell by the pics, look pretty clean and not messed up anywhere. The pistons look good and so do the rings from what I can tell so still not sure If i wanna buy new ones or not. Crank journals also looked ok.

So, I take it I need 2 new rods?

Wow look at all the heat in those rods! Yea u definately need 2 new ones. Also I'm guessing you know this but you need to have the crank turned and use oversized bearings

Yep...yep......which, ive been meaning to ask. Im going to take it all to the machine shop I found here in my city which they specialize in engine work, so heres what I need to know from you guys.

The block, what do I need to tell them to do? Clean it? port and polish? is that it? Can I even do anything else to it?

The head, I know I need the valves to be ground, but is that all I need? Should I do anything else while im in there performance wise? Do I need to take them the head with the valve train still assembled in it? minus the rocker arms that obviously came out already..

I wouldn't take the block there unless you want to get the head surface decked a little to insure a good seal on the HG. You need to take him the crank for sure and have him fix that. If the head was rebuilt when the motor was then you dont have to do another valve job on it but you can if you want to. What they do is regrind the valve seat and the valve to get a good seal and them shave a little off the stem. I replaced the valves when I did my head but you can reuse them. You also could have it ported and polished while your in there. It will help the motor breath a little better but dont expect huge gains from it.

So when I have the crank done...do I just ask them to give me bearings that'll fit it?(which ones need to be oversized, mains, or rod ones?)

How much does it cost to have to block decked? And to have the head ported and the valves done? Ill probably at least get the valves done. And do I just take them the head with everything still assembled in it?

Thought I would have to do more than that. Maybe now ill have extra money for 2 new rods =)

How much does it cost to have to block decked? And to have the head ported and the valves done? Ill probably at least get the valves done. And do I just take them the head with everything still assembled in it?


When I took my block in I had 2 cracked fixed, decked, bored, and polished the crank for ~$400. So you can kinda go from there how much it'll be.

Ok, so I really only need it to be decked, if im planning on keep the same pistons that is.

So, what about the crank? Just ask for bearing that fit the rods or the mains?

Also, since i found a whole bearings worth of metal flake in the oil pan, I should have it hot tanked and inspected rather than cleaning it myself correct?

The oil pan? Just washed it out. Wipe it down with a rag after washing and you'll be good.

No no the block....bc of the oil passages. Lol sry i see where that was confusing.

I wouldn't be to worried about it, but like i said make sure to replace the oil pump. Was there any metal past the strainer on the pickup tube?

I ordered my bearings from the machine shop to make sure i got the right ones so you should try and do that. You should just need the rod journals fixed.

Ok, cool.

Yeah there was metal flake everywhere...like...it was a mess.

ALSO, I wanted to know, I have motor oil inside the exhaust and intake mani's, not to mention they are all gunked up anyways...hows best to clean those things? Like the best/right way. Ive just now noticed how hard it is to clean somehting with oil on it...

Oven cleaner and a small brush worked well for the intake manifold. The exhaust you should be able to do the same

Ok. Ill update after something happens...Im taking the stuff to the machine shop tom. or the next day...

Anyone know about how long the turn around on these things is?

Depends on how busy they are. Probably around a week though. Looking back at the picture again it appears you have some blow by on the cylinders without the spun bearings. See how the skirts of the pistons are brownish from the combustion leaking past the rings. Did you do a compression test on this motor before you pulled it apart? If it was mine I would go ahead and replace the rings in it while I was in there and hone out the cylinders. You dont want to get it back together and then the rings not seal completely.

I thought that was oil on the skirts...lemme check when I get home...

And no I didnt do a compression test, but ill get it honed and new rings anyways...just to be on the safe side. I HAD total seal rings...anybody reccomend a different, perhaps less costly brand thatll work good?

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/437/p1020033.jpg (http://img510.imageshack.us/i/p1020033.jpg/)

I used an angle grinder to cut off two rounded off bolt heads bc I didn't have much else of a choice...I skimmed the surface of the manifold just a little bit...and I wanted to make sure that this shouldnt be much of a problem...I mean theres no holes or cracks and it didnt cut into the gasket surface so...it should be fine right?

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/9136/p1020032t.jpg (http://img260.imageshack.us/i/p1020032t.jpg/)
The other bolt hole

The manifold will be fine. Good luck getting the bolts out of the head. Those ones are a bitch to get out with an ez out...

Looks like a crack near the bolt hole in that last pic, or am I just seeing things?

No you're fine. That's thick cast iron. That little mark won't cause any problems.

Yeah theres no crack. Thanks guys

Ok, as you know the intake mani comes apart into two halves. I took it apart, and began to try to clean the gunk out of it. I have used several little wire brushes, degreaser, and even a little thing I made similar to a loofa, out of a piece of aluminum pipe, and paper towels tied to the end with hair bands lol. It worked though, and ive been at it for about 1hr1/2 scrubbing, and most of it has come out, now when I trap water/degreaser inside, and slosh it around, clear water comes out, although I can look inside and it still looks dark in there like....not nearly as bad, but still you can tell I havent been able to reach some spots to make it completely shiny....

Is this sufficient? Or what else can/should I do?

It's hard to get the insides completely spotless. Should be good. You just want the big built up gunk scraped out and sounds like you did a good job.

The only way I've ever gotten all that shit out was by going to a car wash with the engine degresser and spraying it with that and letting sit. Then taking the pressure washer and blasting the shit out of it. Still had some black on it though. You'll be fine.

Didnt think of the car wash's pressure washer...thats clever...lol

I might try that, as I worry about things like somehting not being clean enough. After that, ill call it done.

I wouldn't worry to much ab it. What you have is probably good enough

lol...

So I took the stuff to the machine shop, and the guy says(in a very redneck, north carolina accent):

guy: you runnin nitrous on that thing?

me: no but right much boost...

guy: how much?

me: damn near 20 pounds

guy: whats yer compression?

me: umm its

guy(interupts me): you runnin' 20 pounds of boost on 10.1 compression, dats why yer engines all fucked up"

me: sigh



Good news is, im getting a full valve job done, the engine will be tanked, decked and honed, and the crank will be turned. And hes gonna get me the bearings I need. Estimate around 500 just labor.

Where'd he get 10.1 from? Price I guess is ok for including the valve job. Quick turn around at least?

Damn Southerners.

Lol...i dunno...out of his ass "i reckon".

Yeah, about 5 days. He asked if I wanted the $110 valve job they do with just getting the seats regrinded, or if I wanted the $160 job and he will cut angles on the valves...I couldn't resist =)

He said the mains on the crank needed to be redone as well.

Dave- Nice one on the carwash suggestion. My intake is spotless now lol.