Trouble with positive camber

[jaygio31]

So my front tires are wearing on the outside of both tires(positive camber).
My question is can this be adjusted by a normal alignment shop without adding numerous pieces. I dont want my alignment to cost me $500 when i am done. Also will the subframe recall cause this camber issue, I have not had my van in yet. What else would cause positive camber

[olopezm]

Same thing happened to me, problem was with worn out inner tie rods.

I had the job done since most people in the forum said it was a pain to do it yourself unless you have the large socket most shops use, then that would really make it easy.

A good idea would be to replace outter tie rods at the same time. Some other users decide/adviced to replace the entire steering rack instead of tie rods only because of age...

To test them put the front wheels in the air and wiggle each tire with your hands at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions. If there's any movement take a look at the rods and you'll see some play on them.

Oscar.

[12Ounce]

I disagree with your premise .... wear on the outside edge of tires indicates too much toe-in, little else!

For many years now, ever since welded unibodies (not body-on-frame) became the manufacturing norm ... along with suspension "struts": ... we get passenger vehicles with caster and camber, as well as body-squareness, "welded in place". The Windstar is in this group. The control arms are big. The struts are big. With these big, long components and welded bodies, we can forget caster and camber. The engineers check often to make sure these parameters are shipped to us "dead on the money". And a little component wear is going to do little to change the geometry ... do the math yourself, it ain't rocket science. The only disruptive change to this built-in geometry can be done by some major accident ... perhaps getting t-boned by a gravel truck!

Now there are plenty of "experts" who can blissfully ignor simple trig and blow smoke up anyone's anus who is willing to listen (and open their wallets). Just because something is in the market ... doesn't mean it is needed.

Now "toe in adjustment" ... is a different matter. This particular adjustment is still being done by Joe Six-pack up under the vehicle as it is moving down the assembly ling. Joe does get it wrong from time to time. And even after manufacture, every math-major in the local tire and alignment shop has a chance to screw it up ... if Joe missed his chance.

Yes, if you have huge component wear, it could be a problem .... but I bet a toe-in adjustment at the outer tie rod ends can make all well for you.

[Windstartled]

I don't think I have ever seen a Windstar with noticeable positive camber but plenty with very obvious negative camber. Because it is so common, until today I thought they had been designed that way for some reason even though I had seen a few with perfectly vertical front wheels. This evening I replaced the extremely worn outer tie rod on the passenger side and now that wheel has no camber at all. So I guess many people just never check the tie rods, hence the camber.

[12Ounce]

Wear on the tie-rods, inner and outer, as well as the rack itself will affect "toe-in". "Caster and camber" are built in to the other components ... the basic welded up geometry. Caster and camber can be affected, some, by wear on lower control arm bushings, the joint between the strut and the lower control arm, etc .... there just isn't much to go wrong.

What appears to the eye can be deceiving ... just because the wheel "leans in" at the top when the wheels are straight ahead is nothing to be concerned about. It's not the moment for us to start re-engineering the suspension geometry.

I try to stay on top of excessive bushing wear, including the anti-sway bar links and bushings. I do my own toe-in adjustment by eye-balling. My Winny has never been to an alignment shop ... and the 330k mile '99 goes down the road with steering wheel where it should be ....and the tires wear long and evenly.

[Windstartled]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

Wear on the tie-rods, inner and outer, as well as the rack itself will affect "toe-in". "Caster and camber" are built in to the other components ... the basic welded up geometry. Caster and camber can be affected, some, by wear on lower control arm bushings, the joint between the strut and the lower control arm, etc .... there just isn't much to go wrong.

What appears to the eye can be deceiving ... just because the wheel "leans in" at the top when the wheels are straight ahead is nothing to be concerned about. It's not the moment for us to start re-engineering the suspension geometry.

I try to stay on top of excessive bushing wear, including the anti-sway bar links and bushings. I do my own toe-in adjustment by eye-balling. My Winny has never been to an alignment shop ... and the 330k mile '99 goes down the road with steering wheel where it should be ....and the tires wear long and evenly.

But still, looking at pictures of brand-new Winnies their front wheels do not lean in at the top like so many -obviously not new- I see on the road nowadays. On several occasions I have observed parked Windstars with what appeared like negative camber and sure enough, their tires show noticeably more wear on the innermost portion than the rest. I don't think Ford has designed it that way, there appears to be some part with a particular wear pattern that is common to all second-generation Windstars that causes this to happen when this part is not looked after properly.

I agree with you that Ford has designed the Windstar's suspension just like any other model, that is to say that the front wheels did not have any camber when they rolled out of the assembly line. But something happens during the lifetime of the vehicle that cause the front wheels to develop a negative camber, and I suspect that that "something" is a loss of rigidity in the assembly of parts that keep the wheels on axis vertically. In this assembly there is one single part that is absolutely guaranteed to lose rigidity over time: the coil spring. When a vehicle "squats" the front wheels do not always remain perfectly vertical, if enough force is exerted the control arm will slightly extend horizontally, momentarily tipping the top of the wheel in. If the springs are worn they will keep sitting low and the wheel will keep tipping in at the top.

Replacing tie rod ends can correct this visually by pulling in the bottom of the wheel but it's not a true fix and may induce some measure of toe-in. Replacing the springs is likely to be the only real permanent fix. Costlier than a tie rod job but worth it.

[Windstartled]

Originally Posted by jaygio31

So my front tires are wearing on the outside of both tires(positive camber).
My question is can this be adjusted by a normal alignment shop without adding numerous pieces. I dont want my alignment to cost me $500 when i am done. Also will the subframe recall cause this camber issue, I have not had my van in yet. What else would cause positive camber

Like I said earlier positive camber is a rare occurrence with the Windstar, but I suppose poorly adjusted outer tie rod ends could cause this (this would also induce toe-in issues). If it's the case then it's pretty easy to fix.