Huge paint question

[cjsbosox]

So I was at a local outomotive paint supply store today. I went in looking for urethane clear since I want to move in that direction. What the gentleman there told me left me sad/angry/disappointed. And As he told me it made sense why my kits have started to look "dull" after some time. He said that laquers never stop evaporating/releasing fumes. As a consequence it starts to look faded/dull, even if clear coated with urethane

So I started thinking of how I wasted so much time painting/polishing my kits that will look dull in time. And believe me it has not taken long. This brings me to my current dilemma.

I wondering if Zero Paints is a laquer product since I have a jar of Rosso Scuderia I was planing on using. This is so sad and pushes me more in the direction of scifi ships so that I can get away from this mess. Painting cars is going to get really expensive if I do this. Paint, weather and seal all with acrylic products. Awesome!

Thanks for your input

[drunken monkey]

Originally Posted by cjsbosox

...said that laquers never stop evaporating/releasing fumes...

wow, I never knew paint manufacturers had mastered the art of making paints that have an infinite amount of solvents in them

[cjsbosox]

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

wow, I never knew paint manufacturers had mastered the art of making paints that have an infinite amount of solvents in them

Haha dunno if you are being sarcastic. I just know that cars are not painted with them anymore. One thing that was mentioned to me is that if you wipe laquer paint with thinner it disolves it easily. While urethane does not get affected immediately. Then again what do I know? I'm just a house painter

This is why I ask

[hirofkd]

I tried to restore some of my old builds (like more than 10 years old) by re-polishing the surface to a mirror-like finish, only to discover that the surface got dull after a while. So, what the paint shop guy says is probably true in not the literal sense of "forever," but in the practical sense of years or decades.
But if you clear coat, you can restore the clear layer at least for a few attempts until you rub all the way through to the base coat, and restoration of the clear layer should be satisfactory enough for a car model.

As for urethane clear, it appears to be holding the original sheen better than lacquer (that's synthetic lacquer like Tamiya TS spray and Mr. Color), but none of my urethane-coated models are old enough to tell the actual strength of the paint just yet.

[cjsbosox]

Ok. But my question is still unanswered. Are Zero paints laquers? I believe they are, but want to know for sure

[rsxse240]

ppfffttt! Keep your models in dust free areas out of direct UV (sun) light and keep your fingers off of them and the paint will last forever. The only issue I've had with mine kept in sealed plastic display cases from hobby lobby is that the clear will turn yellow after a while no matter what. I too have very little experience with urethane or acrylic, but my 96 F150 still has it's shine (no clear though) and it's only been out of it's box a hand full of times in the past 2 decades, to replace broken mirrors and such.

[shineofleo]

According to their official FAQ at http://www.zero-paints.com/faq.html

What type of Paints are they?
The paints supplied are called "Acrylic Basecoats" these can be Solid, Metallic, Mica, Pearl or Candy colours depending on the finish.

at http://www.zero-paints.com/downloads/ you can find more information and I think the answer to your question must be in it.

[drunken monkey]

Originally Posted by cjsbosox

I just know that cars are not painted with them anymore.

But it isn't anything to do with any failing on the paint type.
It's more to do with that more modern polyurethane paints are more weather resistant and more hard wearing.

Any dulling of paint is probably down to environmental effects and how you handle/store/protect your model more than the paint used.
It's why I use resin polishes and wax over my models.

With regards to the solvent issue.
There was a move from solvent based acrylic lacquers to water based lacquers because of health risks from industrial use of solvent based paint. Again, this move wasn't because of any quality related failing of the paint itself.

Originally Posted by cjsbosox

One thing that was mentioned to me is that if you wipe laquer paint with thinner it disolves it easily. While urethane does not get affected immediately.

Not sure why you mention this.
(poly)urethane paints are not affected by (acrylic lacquer) thinners because well, they're just not.
The paint types work/cure/behave differently and once a polyurethane coating has cured it is very chemical resistant.
But then again so what and is it actually a good thing?
How about if you want or need to strip the paint?

[CrateCruncher]

If I can get a color in Tamiya TS I use that just for convenience. One day I was final polishing the TS-16 (yellow) and my fingernail somehow chipped a chunk of the paint off a sharp corner and it wasn't an adhesion issue. Bottom line that paint can be brittle. Now I shoot a thin 2K clear over the base color regardless of type because of it's durability and quick cure time. I can be a bit of a klutz sometimes. I have dropped car bodies on concrete while polishing them and it doesn't even leave a mark! As far as stripping screw-ups, luckily I've never needed to. Clear is fairly easy to shoot if you thin it right. My screw-ups usually happen in the color coat.

[cjsbosox]

Any dulling of paint is probably down to environmental effects and how you handle/store/protect your model more than the paint used.
It's why I use resin polishes and wax over my models.

This is something I always do. I use the same products I use on my car (Menzerna, pinnacle etc). My kits are in a glass curio that does get some sun at a certain part of the day if the curtains are open. The kits I am reffering to I painted 6 months ago. It would be a totally undrstandable if the cars were 5+ years old.

I guess I will try other products to see how it goes. thanks for the replies

[stevenoble]

Zero paints are automotive acrylics not lacquers. I built my Tamiya Hayabusa on the forum back in 2007 using Zero paints throughout, including the Zero 2K urethane clear coat. It's been kept in a glass cabinet ever since and I can honestly say that it looks as good as the day it was painted. No yellowing has occurred and the shine is still incredible and like glass...

[drunken monkey]

there is one more point of confusion here with terms for paint.
technically, they're all lacquers.
acrylic lacquer
enamal lacquer
polyurethane lacquer

that's also part of the reason for my slightly sarcastic first post; because it sounds like whoever you were talking to didn't really know what he was talking about.

i pretty much paint exclusively with tamiya ts paints these are labelled as a synthetic lacquer and i've not had any of my models get dull even after 5+ years.
i also occasionally halfords (our local auto store) automotive and hycote acrylics also labelled as lacquers.
according to your shop keeper, they should be getting dull being lacquers.

[stevenoble]

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

that's also part of the reason for my slightly sarcastic first post; because it sounds like whoever you were talking to didn't really know what he was talking about.

Maybe he is the same as the guy at my local paint store who told me he had never heard of urethane clear coat, then promptly sold me some 2K urethane clear coat and hardener. For fecks sake it was written on the side of the can 'urethane' some of those people who work in those stores know nothing about paints...

[cjsbosox]

Just to clarify something haha. All I asked the person was why my paint got dull over time. He said laquers do that. One thing that has to be clear is that "acrylic" simply means the paint is flexible. So an acrylic base does not say much since it could be latex, waterborne, laquer etc. So it could be as simple as the pact that the clears I've used are Dupont out of a spray can.

And the fact is that all the laquers I have used have lost some of their sheen. Therefore I will be getting away from laquer all together as far as cars go. I would be glad to try zero paints clear and other products, but in the end I can get more for my buck buying locally.

Thank you for your thoughts. It's really cool to be part of an active community. Keep on building while I keep destroying cars

[drunken monkey]

Originally Posted by cjsbosox

This is something I always do. I use the same products I use on my car (Menzerna, pinnacle etc). My kits are in a glass curio that does get some sun at a certain part of the day if the curtains are open. The kits I am reffering to I painted 6 months ago.

6 months?
I seriously doubt that paint would lose colour/shine over 6 months and i would question your method before questioning the product.

i) what are you using
ii) how are you applying it
iii) what, if you are, do you thin the paint with
iv) how flat/smooth is your primer
v) how do you sand your paint
vi) how flat/smooth is your paint
vii) what clear do you use
viii) how thick is your primer/paint/clear

got any photos of your painting process?
got any before/after shots of the paint in question?

this was painted beginning of 2007 and it still pretty much looks like it does now.

Tamiya TS-08 out of the can.


The black one here was painted mid 2006 and pretty much left to collect dust but after a wash, this was taken.

I really don't get how paint can become dull after 6 months, especially as you say they're kept in a glass case.
Just how much sun are they getting because I also have some models sitting on my window ledge and well again, no dulling there either.