Timing Off on Windstar, Where are Timing Marks?

[tempfixit]

Belt routing diagram link:

http://serpentinebeltdiagrams.com/19...ford-windstar/

No need to run engine to see if you get code.

NO NEED TO CUT THE SERPENTINE BELT. You are not inspecting the condition of the belt but when the belt is removed do it still make the noise, if not then you need to find the source of the noise. You can run the engine for a 1 minute or so without hurting anything. )The water pump, power steering pump, and alternator will not be functioning. Also watch the harmonic balancer to see if it wobbles when belt is removed.



Fig. Place a wrench on the drive belt tensioner bolt and rotate the assembly clockwise to relieve belt tension


Using a 15mm wrench attached to the drive belt tensioner pulley, rotate the tensioner clockwise to release the tension. Remove the drive belt from the pulley. When installing the new drive belt, ensure that the drive belt is routed correctly and note the position of the indicator mark on the tensioner.


I copied the above off of autozone.com, repair info.All you need to do is register as it is free.

1. To remove the rear valve cover:

1. Remove the cowl vent panel.
2. Remove the throttle body.
3. Loosen the lower EGR valve to exhaust manifold tube retaining nut and rotate the tube out of the way.
4. Remove the PCV valve (if replacing the valve cover).
5. Remove the fuel charging wiring harness from the valve cover studs. Move the fuel charging wiring out of the way.
   NOTE
   Note the bolt and stud locations prior to removing the valve cover.
   
   
   

1. Loosen the valve cover retaining bolts and studs.
2. Carefully slide a sharp, thin bladed knife between the cylinder head and valve cover gasket at the step where the intake manifold mates to the cylinder head.
   NOTE
   Cut only the silicone sealer and not the integral valve cover gasket.
   
   
   
3. Remove the valve cover making sure the silicone sealer does not pull the valve cover gasket from the valve cover.
4. Remove the valve cover gasket by pulling it from its channel.

To install:

1. Clean all gasket mating surfaces thoroughly.
2. Lubricate all bolt and stud threads prior to installation.
3. Install new valve cover gasket and align fastener holes.
   NOTE
   Check valve cover gasket for correct installation. New valve cover gasket will lay flat to the valve cover in both the channel and fastener areas. If the valve cover gasket is installed incorrectly, oil leakage will occur.
   
   
   
4. Install valve cover gasket to each fastener by securing fastener head with a nut driver or socket. Seat fastener against valve cover and at the same time, roll gasket around fastener collar. If installed correctly, all fasteners will be secured by the gasket and will not fall out.
5. Apply a bead of silicone rubber sealer at the cylinder head to intake manifold step.
   NOTE
   Use a straight down approach when installing valve cover. Any adjustment after sealer contact can roll gasket from the channel in the valve cover.
   
   
   
6. Position valve cover on cylinder head and tighten bolts in sequence to 96-120 inch lbs. (10-14 Nm).
   
   
   
   Fig. Valve cover tightening sequence-3.0L engine
   

Again info in the autozone.com repair manual.

[Searles Lewis]

Originally Posted by tempfixit

Belt routing diagram link:

http://serpentinebeltdiagrams.com/19...ford-windstar/

No need to run engine to see if you get code.

Okay, just to update.

I did pour Seafoam into the crankcase, and then ran it. It idled fine, and the noise went down a little. Then we took it for a ride, went 3-4 miles, it almost quit at a stop sign, and did stall pulling out. It restarted just fine.

It still makes the noise, but as the engine gets over 20, it stops making it so loudly, a big drop in sound. After the near stall, it still makes it, but when it is running slowly.

As a check, I took off the IAC, and it does not have any gunk in it, but is blackened, so I will spray it with WD-40 per the leckemby site. Or perhaps just brake cleaner.

So, given everything, what do you guys think? Stuck something or other?

As for the belt-I thot there was a way to try it without having to take it off. I don't know about the name, but doesn't one wheel retract, or something?

[Searles Lewis]

Originally Posted by tempfixit

Belt routing diagram link:

1. Position valve cover on cylinder head and tighten bolts in sequence to 96-120 inch lbs. (10-14 Nm).
   
   
   
   Fig. Valve cover tightening sequence-3.0L engine

Again info in the autozone.com repair manual.

Do you mean the Haynes manual they sell?

Is the valve cover the front one I filmed earlier? I was under the impression it is to have the bolts tightened to 5-7 pounds, not 96-120. That would cause it to fail, wouldn't it?

[wiswind]

This information is on the Autozone website under the repair information.
You may have to "register" on the site, but the repair information is FREE.
He is telling you to remove the belt to help narrow down the source of the problem.
If the sound goes away when you run the engine without the belt, then the problem would be something in the line that the belt is in.
DO NOT drive the vehicle without the belt....you only want to start & run the engine for a short time.
With the belt removed, the water pump is not running, so the engine will overheat if you run it for any length of time......However the short run that is less than a minute (you should know in 15 seconds if the sound is there).

If the sound is not significantly gone with the belt removed, then you know that it is not something driven by the belt.

NOTE, there WILL be some tapping sound due to the fuel injectors and lifters....you are trying to determine the LOUD sound>
I am stressing this because it is easy to think that the normal sounds are something that they are not.

Sound sources that I had on my '96 were the idler pulley and the pulley on the tensioner.
The bearings slowly went.
Mine did not make the same sound that you have.....but if the sound is in this line, it is something to check (and less money than a alternator , water pump or power steering pump.

Again, the belt removal is a easy way to eliminate some things from the list of suspects under the hood.

[wiswind]

The fuel injectors do make a clicking sound, but nothing near what I heard in your video.
The clicking sound is because the injector has a plunger inside.....and a electrical coil in the injector body.
When current flows through the coil inside the injector, a magnetic field is created which pulls the plunger up.....opening the valve that lets fuel flow through.
Then when the current stops flowing, a spring inside the injector pushes the plunger back down, stopping the fuel flow.
The current flow is only for a super short time......
The plunger moving up and down against the limits creates a small ticking sound.

The current through the coil is driven by the PCM (computer).
When the ignition is ON, there is always 5 volts to 1 of the terminals on the fuel injector electrical connection.
A transistor inside the PCM turns on to create a momentary path to ground to the other terminal on the fuel injector when the PCM wants to squirt fuel into the cylinder.

Waisted Spark.
This is not causing a problem.......seems a strange way to do things but it is very common in modern engines.
For the 6 cylinder engine, there are 3 coils.
Each coil has a spark plug on each end........so each coil fires 2 cylinders.
Each coil has a primary winding which is low voltage.
The primary windings are driven by the PCM.
When current flows through the primary of one of the coils.....the secondary generates a high voltage.
Now....this is where it gets interesting.
The voltage generated in the secondary winding is measured from 1 terminal to the other.......and 1 end is a very high POSITIVE voltage, the other is a very high NEGATIVE voltage.......if you were to measure each end with 1 meter lead on the coil lead and the other meter lead on GROUND.
NOTE, do NOT try to measure this......I'm only explaining how waisted spark systems work.

So, when you energize the primary (input) winding on one of the coils, the secondary (output) winding generates a high voltage at both of its terminals....which is where the spark plug wires connect.
1 spark plug fires with a POSITIVE voltage (relative to ground)
The other spark plug fires with a NEGATIVE voltage (relative to ground).

Why is this important?
The spark plug fires because of the high voltage between the center electrode and the ground tab.
Since 1 side of the motor has POSITIVE voltage causing the spark and the other side of the motor has NEGATIVE voltage causing the spark......the wear on the spark plug will be different on each side of the motor.
1 side of the motor will wear the center electrode faster.
The other side of the motor will wear the ground tab faster.
THIS is why you should use double platinum spark plugs in this vehicle.
Double Platinum means that the center electrode AND the ground tab have the platinum enhancement. (not multiple ground tabs like the Bosch +2 and +4 plugs do).

As far as the air/fuel mixture inside the cylinder, a spark is a spark.....it does not matter what voltage caused it.
What does become critical is that the spark plugs wear somewhat evenly between sides of the engine.
A small variation really won't make a big difference, but a big variation (spark gap getting a LOT biger on 1 side as compared to the other) then problems can develop.

On the older windstars, like my '96.
The FACTORY spark plugs on 1 side of the engine had the platinum enhancment on only the ground tab (you can see it on new plugs)......and the other side of the engine had the platinum enhancement on only the center electrode.
There was a EE on 1 side and some other letters on the other side (EF?).
HOWEVER, replacement plugs that you get at the dealer or aftermarket have the platinum enhancement on both.....the factory plugs were used ONLY at the factory.....I would guess a cost savings.

[tempfixit]

Originally Posted by Searles Lewis

Do you mean the Haynes manual they sell?

Is the valve cover the front one I filmed earlier? I was under the impression it is to have the bolts tightened to 5-7 pounds, not 96-120. That would cause it to fail, wouldn't it?

You need to be careful as some bolts are specified to FOOT POUNDS and some to INCH POUNDS. BIG DIFFERENCE.

The specification refers to both valve covers.

Like wiswind mentioned autozone.com is their website where you can look up parts for your vehicle and it also has a repair info section that has the online version of a haynes/cchlton manual. Need to register but free.

[tempfixit]

Originally Posted by Searles Lewis

Okay, just to update.

I did pour Seafoam into the crankcase, and then ran it. It idled fine, and the noise went down a little. Then we took it for a ride, went 3-4 miles, it almost quit at a stop sign, and did stall pulling out. It restarted just fine.

It still makes the noise, but as the engine gets over 20, it stops making it so loudly, a big drop in sound. After the near stall, it still makes it, but when it is running slowly.

As a check, I took off the IAC, and it does not have any gunk in it, but is blackened, so I will spray it with WD-40 per the leckemby site. Or perhaps just brake cleaner.

So, given everything, what do you guys think? Stuck something or other?

As for the belt-I thot there was a way to try it without having to take it off. I don't know about the name, but doesn't one wheel retract, or something?

Personaly I would try to find the problem, trying to find a easy simple fix is not going to happen. You need to remove the serpentine belt (belt tensioner is the name I believe you are thinking of) and do like suggested (easy to remove, just watch how the belt is routed-5 minutes at most), if same noise exists take the cowl off and remove the rear valve cover and inspect the valve train. By not doing these steps to find the problem is just prolonging getting your vehicle in trustworthy condition to drive and use.

Cowl removal video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtPZYA8QWB8

Serpentine belt removal, this is on a turaus but the same as on a Windstar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEk6KicluHI

[Searles Lewis]

Originally Posted by tempfixit

Personaly I would try to find the problem, trying to find a easy simple fix is not going to happen. You need to remove the serpentine belt (belt tensioner is the name I believe you are thinking of) and do like suggested (easy to remove, just watch how the belt is routed-5 minutes at most), if same noise exists take the cowl off and remove the rear valve cover and inspect the valve train. By not doing these steps to find the problem is just prolonging getting your vehicle in trustworthy condition to drive and use.

I took it off. Friend had a shop body lifter, and he took off he idle pulley tensioner, it's different fro mthe one i nthe drawing. Mine is a 2000 3.0. I think that was for a 1999.

It did not make a difference at all. I watched the harmonic balancer, and it wavered, but in time with the engine. It is, my friend stated, seemingly backfiring thru the intake.

I also cleaned out the iac, I did it back i n january, it was fine, too.

My other friend wh owas helping ,borrowed my book, the haynes manual, and hasn't shown up. He was eating lunch with his wife, ho works for the lab, so don't knwo what happened at all. I was thinking of checking the air intake system ,but do not have the book, so right now I cannot.

I did ride it this morning, it stalled on a turn, every time it slows down. It's fine just idling ,no problems at all. What causes it to stall when it slows down?

I also bought a gallon of kerosene. How much do I need to clean it out? anyone know the procedure?

Well, there goes my eyesight, I have a anacephagic migraine. Gonna run home, try to clear it. I had perfect eysgiht, but maybe somethign happened and the migraine came. Dang.

anyway, no luck wih the belt.

[tempfixit]

QUOTE:"I also bought a gallon of kerosene. How much do I need to clean it out? anyone know the procedure?"

What are you referring to clean it out??? THe intake system???? If so what are you planning on cleaning in the intake???

OK you removed the serpentine belt and no change, It still has the noise correct?????

Qoute:" I watched the harmonic balancer, and it wavered, but in time with the engine. It is, my friend stated, seemingly backfiring thru the intake"

That makes me believe that a exhaust valve is not opening causing the exhaust to escape thru the intake manifold when the intake valve opens. ( lose or broken parts causing the noise)
YOU NEED TO REMOVE THE REAR VALVE COVER AND CHECK THE VALVE TRAIN.

Watch the video on cowl removal I posted in post #52, That way you can get to the rear valve cover without removing intake so you can run the engine once removed.

How was the serpentine belt tensioner different from posted picture?? Are you sure that is the original engine???

Regarding you cleaning the IAC: Cleaning the Idle Air valve and it moves does not mean the solenoid on the valve is directing the valve to move, could be faulty solenoid or wire connector corroded,.

Go to autozone.com and register for the free repair manual (Haynes).

[12Ounce]

Sorry about the headache, they can be awful!

I finally got around to watching the videos. Are these your videos? About that engine: Sorry, but that ain't no 3.0!

I'm afraid to ask what high-tech excercise is planned for the kerosene.

The engine in the video may have other problems but I'm pretty sure the spark cables are not hooked up properly.

How do you know the land lord spiked the engine? Did you see him do it? And he used anti-freeze? .... that's pretty clever. My land lord would probably use mop water or pee .... but anti-freeze, why did he go to that trouble and expense? Perhaps he's smarter than most land lords. Have you asked him to have a look at the engine? Probably help you with those spark cables.

[tempfixit]

http://autorepair.about.com/library/...bl-fo-3132.htm

http://autorepair.about.com/library/...bl-fo-3133.htm

Links for firing orders for 3.0 & 3.8.

Thanks 12Ounce for also noting that this is not a 3.0 engine in the videos Seales posted. I commented on that way back when first video posted but no one else seemed to notice so I let it go. That is why he has had trouble getting the correct parts even tho the vin # has the U code.

[12Ounce]

Originally Posted by tempfixit;6966852.........Links for [B

firing orders [/b]for 3.0 & 3.8.

Thanks 12Ounce for also noting that this is not a 3.0 engine in the videos Seales posted. I commented on that way back when first video posted but no one else seemed to notice so I let it go. That is why he has had trouble getting the correct parts even tho the vin # has the U code.......

Yep, those are good links. More important than the firing order is the layout of the spark cables .... showing which ignition pack terminal goes to what spark plug .... very important. Both engines have the same layout, BTW!
(There is one small error that appears on both graphics ... an arrow shows "to front of vehicle" ... wrong! ... should be "front of engine"! ....at least for the front wheel drive Winny.)

How do you know the engine code was "U"? Some other posting? Some other forum? ... I can't keep up!!

If the code was "U" .... what happened in this car's past? Was the engine changed? Was the tranny changed? How were the different algorithms in the two different PCM's managed? It would take NASA plus Detroit to manage all that! ....Or someone was very lucky!

[tempfixit]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

Yep, those are good links. More important than the firing order is the layout of the spark cables .... showing which ignition pack terminal goes to what spark plug .... very important. Both engines have the same layout, BTW!
(There is one small error that appears on both graphics ... an arrow shows "to front of vehicle" ... wrong! ... should be "front of engine"! ....at least for the front wheel drive Winny.)

How do you know the engine code was "U"? Some other posting? Some other forum? ... I can't keep up!!

If the code was "U" .... what happened in this car's past? Was the engine changed? Was the tranny changed? How were the different algorithms in the two different PCM's managed? It would take NASA plus Detroit to manage all that! ....Or someone was very lucky!

Searles has multiple threads on the vehicle issue, makes it very hard to follow, here is the thread I asked aabout the code, post #28.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...1076318&page=2


Here is the question and answer post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tempfixit
http://youtu.be/01T1R2Aecdg

Searles, what is the 8th character in the vin number? (u or 4). The reason I ask is because the upper intake to me looks like that of a 3.8 engine. Very possible that I am wrong and I am meaning no offense by asking this question. I have a 98 with a 3.0 and it looks different.

When your friend listened with the stethoscope did he listen to the engine lower end from under the vehicle against the oil pan??? IN my opiniion the more I listen to the video the more it sounds like a bad rod bearing to me. (Hopefully I am wrong).

U. I have the 3.0. From what I understand, 97-8 had a different engine in some ways. I have a 2000 3.0l.


I have not been able to find a diagram yet of coil and wire info, still looking.

[12Ounce]

Originally Posted by tempfixit

......I have not been able to find a diagram yet of coil and wire info, still looking......

No, you have found the diagrams .... they are clearly in the links you posted: The pack is shown as a rectangle with cable terminals 1-2-3 across the "top" and 4-6-5 across the "bottom". That's it! There's nothing else needed ....other than to know how the cyls are numbered.

That information is not included in the Ford shop manuals .... but does appear as a sticker on top of OEM ignition packs. We get in trouble when we use aftermarket ig packs that do not include this simple information.

In the first pages of a Hayes manual for the Winny, one can find the same simple crude diagrams on the 3.0 and the 3.8. Simple and crude, but immensely important!

[Searles Lewis]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

Sorry about the headache, they can be awful!

I finally got around to watching the videos. Are these your videos? About that engine: Sorry, but that ain't no 3.0!

You are totally right, 8th digit is a 4, 10th is a y, so it's a 3.8l v8 from 2000.

Fortunately, all the parts I have replaced are the same for either engine.

Of course, that does make me a certifiable dumbass, too!

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

I'm afraid to ask what high-tech excercise is planned for the kerosene.

Seafoam and marvel mystery oil both contain naptha. I was going to use it, by pouring a quart into the engine, running it for 10 seconds, then draining the oil. I was thinking it could be a sticky lifter, given how much it improved in sound yesterday when I put in the seafoam. That seems to be the main ingredient, naptha.

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

The engine in the video may have other problems but I'm pretty sure the spark cables are not hooked up properly.

How do you know the land lord spiked the engine? Did you see him do it? And he used anti-freeze? .... that's pretty clever. My land lord would probably use mop water or pee .... but anti-freeze, why did he go to that trouble and expense? Perhaps he's smarter than most land lords. Have you asked him to have a look at the engine? Probably help you with those spark cables.

We had a neighbor who was using a steel pipe to pound on our common ceiling, he stopped then re-started. The neighbor tried to drive us out, that failed, our landlord tried claiming we didn't have a lease, we obtained a copy thru a Senator's office (long story). We found out later our landlord was an unreformed drug addict, like the neighbor he used to intimidate us. That stuff doesn't work with me, I'm a descendant of John of Donegal, you can read about my ancestor beating his landlord to death, then moving here- 4 of his sons were decorated officers in the American Rev. Another neighbor who was a relative (same family but 200 years ago) had a son who was a Captain and his Dad also is DAR listed, and Geo. Washington himself said my ancestor's brother was the most fearsome soldier he had ever met. He said it scared him to watch him review the troops, and hat was the Father of our Country!

So, I don't give in very often. After we lost a lot of sleep one night due to the banging, we discussed applying the wage garnishment, and then heard a noise on our porch. We went out, and the landlord had the crazy drug addict shovelling, but the footstep encased in snow, two of them, on the porch, were still there-too big for the little run, but about the same size as our landlord, and he had already done the listening in thing before. We had the van parked in front of his office, and for the past two weeks had considered getting a locking gas cap, and we got in and drove-within a few miles, the car started gagging.

Oldest son, back from afghanistan, came right by, stuck his finger in the fuel intake, let me smell it, it was sweet and green. When I took off the fuel filter later, tho, it has anti-freeze in the intake part. I looked up on ask.com, sugar usually clears out easily. But antifreeze can cause the injectors not to work, and our landlord had helped us 4 years ago when our plymouth van had died, and kept laughing about the fact when he sprayed starter fluid into the intake "fuel just does not seem to be getting into the engine". So, since that mathed up the symptoms, and I had the filter with dried and wet anti-freeze, I knew who it was. He's gone into our place, and stolen things, and he allowed a mormon family to invade our place and wreck it, since they were trying to convert our daughter and miserably failed. But they did go thru our medical records, and some other stuff.

I got some serious dirt in the past on people, including molestation in town, and had told people, which made them lose their jobs, and the cops had told people I was dealing meth. I then posted online the names and addies of their informants (I do not do drugs, ever) and their tricks, and the cops now avoid me like the plague. But my landlord, and the police had already admitted to us, with witnesses present, they had slandered me and who their informants were. We figured the landlord was trying to silence us, and stop us from getting the informant in trouble, so he doped or anti-freezed our engine.

We also found out, he'd tried successfully to oust 2 dozen people, including 8 served with papers, previously. We disproved everything he said, and the judge humiliated him publicly, so we know he's mad. But, I have a legal right to sleep, and the dipstick will pay for that later this month. I know he can't afford the garnishment, but hey, he did us, now it's time for him.

So, when I had the fuel filter, and it was obvious what had happened both to the ford and the plymouth, and the symptoms matched, I was certain what had happened. I know who it was. He has 6 cameras on the property, but if I had him served with a subpoena he'd destroy the vids first. But that does not mean I do not know-I do, I just do not have enough evidence to get a thorough and complete prosecution. But I have the filter, and know enough to guess pretty successfully.

That enuff, or do you need more?

I don't know why you said trouble or expense. All you need is a gallon or two of anti-freeze, a funnel which I've borrowed from him before, and to be mental (which he already is), and vengeful and keep your mouth shut. From what I have read, this happens a lot nationwide, but only with people who want to kill the engine, not just disable it temporarily and send a message.

My landlord loves making other people hurt, then threatening them. When we won, we told other people to stand up, they did, and now he can't evict anyone. His perp-in residence the drug addict, was reporting to the local probation officer on people, and making stuff up-and since he can't legally testify, he can't do that. We told people to challenge his story, since he can't legally testify, or vote, and they did, and the neighborhood has mellowed out. That has extremely ticked off people who make money from arresting people for a living, and making them take classes at 50$/per, and 200$/per month probation fees. Not to mention the people they cut deals with to hurt others (think the movie, Needful Things by Stephen King) for vengeance, because they are sick, in exchange for illegally expunging their convictions.

Wow, that is a lot. But, you wanted to know.

I did switch out two spark plug wires, and that caused the engine not to start. So, I do not know.