Timing Off on Windstar, Where are Timing Marks?

[Searles Lewis]

Hey, y'all!

I replaced spark plugs today, and the timing is still off. It's not so loud, but the fuel odor and such is still there.

My friend suggested that there is a mini-distributor on the left side of the end, near the serpentine belt, and you can twist a screw that is connects to to change it, but you would have have a timing mark there to know how to set it back. It is still making the popping sound.

So, his other suggestion is that the timing chain itself has hopped off of the gear it attaches to, one of them.

So, my question is,
1. Where is the timing mark to check or adjust it?
2. How could I tell if it is the timing chain in the engine or not?
3. What other ways exist to adjust the timing?

Could I just replace some sensors? Such as:
1. Cam sensor
2. Crank sensor
3. pcm?

Any ideas? Please see my other video about what it is doing.

I thought perhaps since the fuel intake had been spiked with anti-freeze, I could just run something to degrease the engine, but he explained if it was that, the valve compression tests would have shown it.

[tempfixit]

Originally Posted by Searles Lewis

Hey, y'all!

I replaced spark plugs today, and the timing is still off. It's not so loud, but the fuel odor and such is still there.

My friend suggested that there is a mini-distributor on the left side of the end, near the serpentine belt, and you can twist a screw that is connects to to change it, but you would have have a timing mark there to know how to set it back. It is still making the popping sound.

So, his other suggestion is that the timing chain itself has hopped off of the gear it attaches to, one of them.

So, my question is,
1. Where is the timing mark to check or adjust it?
2. How could I tell if it is the timing chain in the engine or not?
3. What other ways exist to adjust the timing?

Could I just replace some sensors? Such as:
1. Cam sensor
2. Crank sensor
3. pcm?

Any ideas? Please see my other video about what it is doing.

I thought perhaps since the fuel intake had been spiked with anti-freeze, I could just run something to degrease the engine, but he explained if it was that, the valve compression tests would have shown it.

He is more than likely referring to the cam shaft synconizer.

How do you know timing is off??? Have you checked with a timing lite?

[Searles Lewis]

Originally Posted by tempfixit

He is more than likely referring to the cam shaft synconizer.

How do you know timing is off??? Have you checked with a timing lite?

No, but the engine keeps shaking, making a popping noise, and there is a fuel odor too right off.

After a minute or so, if I do not rev it, the engine might start to die, and the battery light comes on. In the past, when this happened it would sometimes give a CEL which I suspected was due to it almost dying, and I would put in a fuel additive like B-12, which really worked well, and then reset the codes via disconnecting the battery.

It still makes that knocking sound. Originally I swear I heard a ticking for the last month or more, and it sounded like I could hear each and every cylinder fire in order.

Tick-tick-tick....

BTW, what my friend said was the distributor was actually the Crankshaft positioning sensor.

Would replacing that, the coil pack, and the camshaft sensor fix it?

The engine is vibrating/shaking, makes the popping sound loudly, and it picks up when I rev it. Could I have thrown off the crankshaft? Does it have a dampener thing too, that might need adjustment?

[MARZBX157]

As far as I know, the only way to adjust the timing is through the computer itself. there is no way to do it manually. Because messing with the screw on that cam sensor as you could make things worse, I would leave it alone.

[Searles Lewis]

Originally Posted by MARZBX157

As far as I know, the only way to adjust the timing is through the computer itself. there is no way to do it manually. Because messing with the screw on that cam sensor as you could make things worse.

Okay, but he said if I could find the timing mark, he would do it tomorrow after work.

Is it there, or any way to find it?

This video has my car's engine, and the noise it is making.

http://youtu.be/01T1R2Aecdg

Does that help?

[Searles Lewis]

Just before this, a muffler hanger broke. In the past with a plymouth van it actually shook the car, then caused it to sway, and it sounded like the engine was going to blow. I replaced it, both of them, and it stopped.

This time, it made louder noises, replaced passenger side, but stopped when this new problem started. Driver's was never replaced. Also, back in October, I replaced the battery. Autzone charged me too much for it, but Adam Lopez refused my calls, they switched the time left with the time on, and charged me double for it. Had a 7 year warranty.

Any of that help?

BTW, thanks for the advice everyone has given me here. It seems my 2000 Windstar 3.0l problem is common, but with different reasons each time.

So, junkyard, spring for camshaft & crankshaft sensor, coil pack to test, and maybe a pcm? I think the key can be reset with a pcm by switching it on and off 5-6 times. I did that one time before when my Honey lost a key, and the fob broke at the same time roughly.

My friend's comment was "...this is why I won't buy a Ford". It also has the intermittent light flickering-we've actually had people leave us notes about it on our car before. Every Ford has that, in my experience.

[MARZBX157]

That sound on the engine tapping could be several things, but it is running smooth apart from the tapping itself. I would first remove the cowl, then remove the intake manifold and check the inside upper part to see if it came loose and is tapping against the outside upper part. then take it from there. If the timing chain would've skipped the engine would be running worse.

P.S. You should keep all your posts within the one thread you started as all these issues are related to that thread you started, it is better for all the other members to get info. concerning your vehicle.

[Searles Lewis]

Originally Posted by MARZBX157

That sound on the engine tapping could be several things, but it is running smooth apart from the tapping itself. I would first remove the cowl, then remove the intake manifold and check the inside upper part to see if it came loose and is tapping against the outside upper part. then take it from there. If the timing chain would've skipped the engine would be running worse.

P.S. You should keep all your posts within the one thread you started as all these issues are related to that thread you started, it is better for all the other members to get info. concerning your vehicle.

Okay, I did that basically because I thot it was proper site etiquette to re-post and not keep old ones alive.

I got this video from a prior person's posting, he said his engine was blown

http://decclic.qc.ca/usagers/028595/...gine_blown.avi

from

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=958880

I checked the coil pack, looked fine. I did not disconnect anything, nor take it off. Could it be this? Would it cause the both of us to have the same issue? My started is fine, it runs, what is up?

[tempfixit]

Originally Posted by Searles Lewis

Okay, I did that basically because I thot it was proper site etiquette to re-post and not keep old ones alive.

I got this video from a prior person's posting, he said his engine was blown

http://decclic.qc.ca/usagers/028595/...gine_blown.avi

from

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=958880

I checked the coil pack, looked fine. I did not disconnect anything, nor take it off. Could it be this? Would it cause the both of us to have the same issue? My started is fine, it runs, what is up?

You know dude, thru this whole process there have been numerous suggestions made, you seem to keep on wanting ideas but refuse to do what has already been suggested.

Have you removed the serpentine belt and run the enginee for a little to see if noise quits???? Nothing has been indicated this was done.

Have you checked the harmonic balancer for any defects in the rubber part or if it wobbles???

Have you removed either of the valve covers or upper plenium to check things out???

Which engine is it the 3.8 or the 3.0??? To me it looks like a 3.8.

[12Ounce]

Originally Posted by Searles Lewis

...... It seems my 2000 Windstar 3.0l problem is common,..............

.
"Uncommon" I would think ... as the 3.0 was last sold in 1999, IIRC.

[Searles Lewis]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

.
"Uncommon" I would think ... as the 3.0 was last sold in 1999, IIRC.

Mine is a 2000, it made up 1/3rd of the vans sold that year.

[Searles Lewis]

Originally Posted by tempfixit You know dude, thru this whole process there have been numerous suggestions made, you seem to keep on wanting ideas but refuse to do what has already been suggested.

Originally Posted by tempfixit

which one did I miss? I replaced the spark plugs, checked the coil pack as well as I could, and did a valve compression test which was perfect.



I didn't know I was supposed to do that. I'll try that today, after the temp gets over 32 here.



I checked the pulleys, and I have replaced hose belts in the past. There are no visible cracks, and my friend, who helped me before with this, said they were in good shape-he tried getting them to move, wobble, and checked the tension, they seemed fine. Is there another way to do it?

No, because the noise is not coming from the plenum, I covered that in a past post.

I didn't take off the valve cover, as all the valves were just fine, because it passed the valve compression test, which I was under the impression it would not result well if the valves were bad.

[Searles Lewis]

Car is a 3.0l v6.

[Searles Lewis]

Just to add, as I read back 13 pages of Windstar stuff last nite, the car takes a few seconds of pressing on the gas pedal to get it to go. I also have to rev it, and just before it stumbles usually the battery lite turns on.

From what I can see, this would indicate the coil pack stinks, right?

There are no cracks in it, but I've read hat it's bad on Fords, can still be bad even if it reads all ohms are going thru. Even if it seems to be running, and there are no visible cracks, and it's just loping and surging or whatever it's called-it takes a few seconds for gas to get thru when the gas pedal is depressed, but it still "lopes", meaning it rocks the van forward and backward, and jumps from 600 rpm to 800 sometimes, others stays the same, when it does that.

That would be the coil pack, right, since it is acting like it's missing, the fuel odor, and the valves have high or perfect compression? That means despite new plugs, and good valves, it's messing up by not allowing one of the plugs to fire? Reliably or with enough punch?

It sounds like Ford put in a junky coil pack made out of epoxy. As a kid, epoxy was what I used to repair plastic, and inject other plastic things at work as an adult. It can be problematic even if you can't see it, right? I read one post where a guy had perfect ohms coming back, no cracks visible, and replaced it and it then ran fine. On youtube, that is pretty common too .I can't tell ,despite better than average hearing, from the sound if it is right.

Am I right to try repairing or replacing it?

[wiswind]

The only way to know is to replace it.
It seems that the coil pack on the 1999 and newer is more common in failure than on the 1998 and older.
A small crack that you cannot even see can create a break in the insulation between things to keep the high voltage from arcing.
That is why it can check out perfect and still fail......as the failure is caused by the high voltage arcing (jumping from 1 location to another).
The arc is supposed to happen at the spark plug.
When it happens in the coil pack instead......the spark plug in the cylinder does not spark.....causing the misfire.