Passlock System
UnhappyImpalaOwner
10-27-2008, 07:42 AM
...I started my car first, then cut the yellow wire, measure the reistance value using a multimeter, find a same value resistor and connect it as instructed. The anti-theft light is gone, and no start-up problem since then....
A few questions in trying to get the steps down exactly.
(1) The original procedure by ponchonutty mentioned cutting the yellow wire before starting the car. But AF_Dali stated he cut the wire after starting the car. If the wire is cut with the car running, won't the security light come up and will it turn off after the correct resistor is installed? Do you install the resistor with the car running or leave the car running just long enough to get the resistance value.
(2) I've read elsewhere of putting in any resistor value and having the car relearn. Any risk in doing that and the car not relearning or is the main problem the time it takes to relearn.
(3) Stupid question - I assume when measuring and soldering to the black wire, you are doing so after pealing back the cover off the wire somewhere in the middle of the wire. I know you don't cut it.
A few questions in trying to get the steps down exactly.
(1) The original procedure by ponchonutty mentioned cutting the yellow wire before starting the car. But AF_Dali stated he cut the wire after starting the car. If the wire is cut with the car running, won't the security light come up and will it turn off after the correct resistor is installed? Do you install the resistor with the car running or leave the car running just long enough to get the resistance value.
(2) I've read elsewhere of putting in any resistor value and having the car relearn. Any risk in doing that and the car not relearning or is the main problem the time it takes to relearn.
(3) Stupid question - I assume when measuring and soldering to the black wire, you are doing so after pealing back the cover off the wire somewhere in the middle of the wire. I know you don't cut it.
AF_Dali
10-27-2008, 10:57 AM
A few questions in trying to get the steps down exactly.
(1) The original procedure by ponchonutty mentioned cutting the yellow wire before starting the car. But AF_Dali stated he cut the wire after starting the car. If the wire is cut with the car running, won't the security light come up and will it turn off after the correct resistor is installed? Do you install the resistor with the car running or leave the car running just long enough to get the resistance value.
(2) I've read elsewhere of putting in any resistor value and having the car relearn. Any risk in doing that and the car not relearning or is the main problem the time it takes to relearn.
(3) Stupid question - I assume when measuring and soldering to the black wire, you are doing so after pealing back the cover off the wire somewhere in the middle of the wire. I know you don't cut it.
Hello,
Here are the answers to your questions:
(1) As far as I remember ponchonutty's step is to reset the system if necessary so that your anti-theft system won't obstcle your from starting your car. After the car is started, you cut the yellow wire while the car is running. Nothing will happen except the Anti-Theft light is turned on. You can now turn off the ignition and try to start the car again. You will find the start up problem brought by the Anti-Theft System is gone, but the anti-theft light is on.
(2) I am not sure about the mentioned relearning risk. ponchonutty's method works smoothly on my Malibu just as what he had described.
(3) Yes, you don't cut the black wire, you peal the insulation off in the middle of somewhere convenient for your measurement and later on soldering. Of course, you don't need to start the car while pealing the yellow and the black wire, or while soldering the resistor.
Good Luck on your repair! If possible, post it back to let ponchonutty know how his method is working.
(1) The original procedure by ponchonutty mentioned cutting the yellow wire before starting the car. But AF_Dali stated he cut the wire after starting the car. If the wire is cut with the car running, won't the security light come up and will it turn off after the correct resistor is installed? Do you install the resistor with the car running or leave the car running just long enough to get the resistance value.
(2) I've read elsewhere of putting in any resistor value and having the car relearn. Any risk in doing that and the car not relearning or is the main problem the time it takes to relearn.
(3) Stupid question - I assume when measuring and soldering to the black wire, you are doing so after pealing back the cover off the wire somewhere in the middle of the wire. I know you don't cut it.
Hello,
Here are the answers to your questions:
(1) As far as I remember ponchonutty's step is to reset the system if necessary so that your anti-theft system won't obstcle your from starting your car. After the car is started, you cut the yellow wire while the car is running. Nothing will happen except the Anti-Theft light is turned on. You can now turn off the ignition and try to start the car again. You will find the start up problem brought by the Anti-Theft System is gone, but the anti-theft light is on.
(2) I am not sure about the mentioned relearning risk. ponchonutty's method works smoothly on my Malibu just as what he had described.
(3) Yes, you don't cut the black wire, you peal the insulation off in the middle of somewhere convenient for your measurement and later on soldering. Of course, you don't need to start the car while pealing the yellow and the black wire, or while soldering the resistor.
Good Luck on your repair! If possible, post it back to let ponchonutty know how his method is working.
UnhappyImpalaOwner
10-27-2008, 12:27 PM
Thanks AF_Dali,
If I understand correctly here is the plan
(1) Start car
(2) Cut yellow wire (security light comes on)
(3) turn car off
(4) strip yellow wire ends and part of black wire.
(5) start car (security light is still on)
(6) meter between yellow (going to ignition switch) and black for resistance
(7) turn car off
(8) solder correct resistor between yellow (going into dash) and black
(9) start car (security light is off)
(10) post results to AF :)
Just want to get the steps correct so that I don't create a 4 door paperweight.
If I understand correctly here is the plan
(1) Start car
(2) Cut yellow wire (security light comes on)
(3) turn car off
(4) strip yellow wire ends and part of black wire.
(5) start car (security light is still on)
(6) meter between yellow (going to ignition switch) and black for resistance
(7) turn car off
(8) solder correct resistor between yellow (going into dash) and black
(9) start car (security light is off)
(10) post results to AF :)
Just want to get the steps correct so that I don't create a 4 door paperweight.
AF_Dali
10-27-2008, 12:40 PM
Thanks AF_Dali,
If I understand correctly here is the plan
(1) Start car
(2) Cut yellow wire (security light comes on)
(3) turn car off
(4) strip yellow wire ends and part of black wire.
(5) start car (security light is still on)
(6) meter between yellow (going to ignition switch) and black for resistance
(7) turn car off
(8) solder correct resistor between yellow (going into dash) and black
(9) start car (security light is off)
(10) post results to AF :)
Just want to get the steps correct so that I don't create a 4 door paperweight.
Yes these are the steps that I took to have the problem fixed.
If I understand correctly here is the plan
(1) Start car
(2) Cut yellow wire (security light comes on)
(3) turn car off
(4) strip yellow wire ends and part of black wire.
(5) start car (security light is still on)
(6) meter between yellow (going to ignition switch) and black for resistance
(7) turn car off
(8) solder correct resistor between yellow (going into dash) and black
(9) start car (security light is off)
(10) post results to AF :)
Just want to get the steps correct so that I don't create a 4 door paperweight.
Yes these are the steps that I took to have the problem fixed.
N.J.C.
10-27-2008, 02:29 PM
Whew! Finally read through all 25 pages! LOL! That takes awhile!
My problem started last Fri night, the 24th, on my '98 S10 ZR2. I spent a few min. trying to start the truck, and like most, it would start, run for 2 sec. and shut down. I automatically knew it was something electrical. But, I've never studied anything about the factory secuity systems on GM vehicles. Never needed to...didn't have anything new enough to have these problems until I bought this truck about a month ago. My old '96 Sonoma didn't have passlock or passkey....somehow.
I spent the better part of 5 hrs doing research on the 'net that night. I'm a researcher, that's what I do. Not to mention, I'm an administrator on a forum board that is just like this and a moderator on two others (ATV sites). I help people with problems on their quads all the time. Been working on those boards for several years.
After spending the better part of my weekend learning more than I ever cared to about these GM security systems, I've finally gained a huge understanding of how the entire system works. I've been a mechanic back in my day and even work w/ electrical stuff for my job (local IBEW).
That being said, I've tried a little of everything and had some good luck and some not so good luck. I did get the truck to run the next morning after leaving the battery completely disconnected for about 8 hrs while I was sleeping. It started and ran just fine but the light stayed on. I've went through the relearn proceedures (which worked) and even pulled a diode that I found that's supposed to disarm the entire system when pulled. Didn't do squat. So if you read anywhere to pull a black diode labeled, DRL, don't bother. It won't hurt anything, but it won't disarm the security system either. Everything has been fine since the relearn proceedure but I haven't cleared the codes on the BCM so the light is just stuck on. Kinda light fixing an engine problem fixed, but not clearing the DTC's (diagnostic trouble codes). The light will just stay stuck on until the codes are cleared. Not a problem for me....I don't stare at my idiot lights when I'm driving and paying attention to the road! Unlike some of you....LOL!
I'm happy to say the truck is currently running...and has no issues starting except for the light is stuck on. I haven't done squat to it short of the relearn process...that's it. I was fully aware of the bypass module and what it does after getting a quote on a remote starter just after recently buying the truck. For those who don't understand what the aftermarket bypass module does (which has to be installed w/ an aftermarket remote starter), it simply does the same thing as installing resistors inline between the infamous YELLOW and BLACK wire. A bypass is required to circumvent for remote start applications. If left unchecked, it will lock down the fuel injector rail, and you will then need to tow it in to GM for evaluation, and resetting. This Passlock Bypass Module is designed to momentarilly allow the engine to remote start by sending a proper coded pulse to open the fuel rail passlock injector cut off circuit. The output from an alarm/remote starter would then shut down the pulse, once it has detected the engine has engaged, and preserve the integrity of the passlock system. The only difference from individual resistors and the bypass module, is the bypass module learns the resistance values and automatically matches it. It's a simple automatic process that eliminates testing for the resistance values and buying and installing those matched resistors. With the module installed, it will always match the resistance, no matter what it is. So, for those of you who aren't comfortable testing resistance, searching for the right resistors and installing them, you can search for an aftermarket bypass module used for remote starters and simply have it installed. Any car audio shop that installs remote starters will do it. You don't have to have the remote starter installed if you don't want to, but it you have the extra money, then do while they are in there. Remote starters are nice, but not needed if you just want the bypass module installed. That's just one fix...or idea to throw out there.
OK, on to my MAIN question. Most of know (if you've read all 25 pages and paid attention) how the system works and what components are in charge of controling it all. We also know the end result of a faulty code is the fuel injectors getting shut off to prevent auto theft. Sooooo, how many of you have thought about working your way backwards and go directly to the component keeping the car from running? I'm talking about the fuel injectors. I myself haven't looked into it yet, but I will. Is there possibly a way to take the fuel injectors offline from the security system? Is it possible to allow them to fire and opperate correctly without getting shut down by the BCM and/or PCM? If I'm shooting for the moon and it's never possible, then disreguard this last paragraph. I'm just thinking out of the box from what I've been reading over and over for the past three days.
In the mean time, my '98 ZR2 will be getting the remote starter and bypass module. That's what was going to happen before all this started in the first place. I made my decision to install a remote starter the day I bought it almost a month ago. I installed one on my '96 4x4 Sonoma years ago and won't go without one on this truck.
Good luck to all. Respond as you see fit. I'll be checking this thread for more problems and reading and helping as I can. Sincerlely, one hellava patient guy!
My problem started last Fri night, the 24th, on my '98 S10 ZR2. I spent a few min. trying to start the truck, and like most, it would start, run for 2 sec. and shut down. I automatically knew it was something electrical. But, I've never studied anything about the factory secuity systems on GM vehicles. Never needed to...didn't have anything new enough to have these problems until I bought this truck about a month ago. My old '96 Sonoma didn't have passlock or passkey....somehow.
I spent the better part of 5 hrs doing research on the 'net that night. I'm a researcher, that's what I do. Not to mention, I'm an administrator on a forum board that is just like this and a moderator on two others (ATV sites). I help people with problems on their quads all the time. Been working on those boards for several years.
After spending the better part of my weekend learning more than I ever cared to about these GM security systems, I've finally gained a huge understanding of how the entire system works. I've been a mechanic back in my day and even work w/ electrical stuff for my job (local IBEW).
That being said, I've tried a little of everything and had some good luck and some not so good luck. I did get the truck to run the next morning after leaving the battery completely disconnected for about 8 hrs while I was sleeping. It started and ran just fine but the light stayed on. I've went through the relearn proceedures (which worked) and even pulled a diode that I found that's supposed to disarm the entire system when pulled. Didn't do squat. So if you read anywhere to pull a black diode labeled, DRL, don't bother. It won't hurt anything, but it won't disarm the security system either. Everything has been fine since the relearn proceedure but I haven't cleared the codes on the BCM so the light is just stuck on. Kinda light fixing an engine problem fixed, but not clearing the DTC's (diagnostic trouble codes). The light will just stay stuck on until the codes are cleared. Not a problem for me....I don't stare at my idiot lights when I'm driving and paying attention to the road! Unlike some of you....LOL!
I'm happy to say the truck is currently running...and has no issues starting except for the light is stuck on. I haven't done squat to it short of the relearn process...that's it. I was fully aware of the bypass module and what it does after getting a quote on a remote starter just after recently buying the truck. For those who don't understand what the aftermarket bypass module does (which has to be installed w/ an aftermarket remote starter), it simply does the same thing as installing resistors inline between the infamous YELLOW and BLACK wire. A bypass is required to circumvent for remote start applications. If left unchecked, it will lock down the fuel injector rail, and you will then need to tow it in to GM for evaluation, and resetting. This Passlock Bypass Module is designed to momentarilly allow the engine to remote start by sending a proper coded pulse to open the fuel rail passlock injector cut off circuit. The output from an alarm/remote starter would then shut down the pulse, once it has detected the engine has engaged, and preserve the integrity of the passlock system. The only difference from individual resistors and the bypass module, is the bypass module learns the resistance values and automatically matches it. It's a simple automatic process that eliminates testing for the resistance values and buying and installing those matched resistors. With the module installed, it will always match the resistance, no matter what it is. So, for those of you who aren't comfortable testing resistance, searching for the right resistors and installing them, you can search for an aftermarket bypass module used for remote starters and simply have it installed. Any car audio shop that installs remote starters will do it. You don't have to have the remote starter installed if you don't want to, but it you have the extra money, then do while they are in there. Remote starters are nice, but not needed if you just want the bypass module installed. That's just one fix...or idea to throw out there.
OK, on to my MAIN question. Most of know (if you've read all 25 pages and paid attention) how the system works and what components are in charge of controling it all. We also know the end result of a faulty code is the fuel injectors getting shut off to prevent auto theft. Sooooo, how many of you have thought about working your way backwards and go directly to the component keeping the car from running? I'm talking about the fuel injectors. I myself haven't looked into it yet, but I will. Is there possibly a way to take the fuel injectors offline from the security system? Is it possible to allow them to fire and opperate correctly without getting shut down by the BCM and/or PCM? If I'm shooting for the moon and it's never possible, then disreguard this last paragraph. I'm just thinking out of the box from what I've been reading over and over for the past three days.
In the mean time, my '98 ZR2 will be getting the remote starter and bypass module. That's what was going to happen before all this started in the first place. I made my decision to install a remote starter the day I bought it almost a month ago. I installed one on my '96 4x4 Sonoma years ago and won't go without one on this truck.
Good luck to all. Respond as you see fit. I'll be checking this thread for more problems and reading and helping as I can. Sincerlely, one hellava patient guy!
ponchonutty
10-27-2008, 09:51 PM
NJC, welcome aboard! As you have already read, I seem to be a land shark on this subject. I didn't mean to but mearly just fell into it. What you asked about backward bypassing the system would be great if you could find a way. The biggest problem would be that to do it I'd bet just about any amount of money you'd need to reflash the BCM somehow to get it to ignore the Passlock system. Also, if you could do it, my guess is that GM dealers would let that be an option outside of warranty.
For the time being, my method seems to be the best way to go. BTW, you will get a major bill from your remote starter installer. If that light is on when you go to get it installed, they'll have a real good time with your truck unless they are aware what I say on here. The reason is the exact thing you stated...."these bypasses read the resistance everytime you start the vehicle". Well, if the resistance is off like enough to get your security light to come on the bypass is worthless.
On the '98 s-10 series the BCM is down below the center part of the dash behind the black cover. The plugs face the gas pedal. Over time someone could get that a little wet from slush and snow causing the leads to corrode. I'd take the cover off and unhook the plugs and check for problems there. Then reconnect them and see what happens.
Since you now have that light on, that means the BCM is in "fail enable mode" You can read about this in your owner's manual. It means that you need to get it fixed fast. The system is so bad now that the BCM is ignoring it but it'll only do that for so long.
For the time being, my method seems to be the best way to go. BTW, you will get a major bill from your remote starter installer. If that light is on when you go to get it installed, they'll have a real good time with your truck unless they are aware what I say on here. The reason is the exact thing you stated...."these bypasses read the resistance everytime you start the vehicle". Well, if the resistance is off like enough to get your security light to come on the bypass is worthless.
On the '98 s-10 series the BCM is down below the center part of the dash behind the black cover. The plugs face the gas pedal. Over time someone could get that a little wet from slush and snow causing the leads to corrode. I'd take the cover off and unhook the plugs and check for problems there. Then reconnect them and see what happens.
Since you now have that light on, that means the BCM is in "fail enable mode" You can read about this in your owner's manual. It means that you need to get it fixed fast. The system is so bad now that the BCM is ignoring it but it'll only do that for so long.
N.J.C.
10-27-2008, 11:00 PM
NJC, welcome aboard! As you have already read, I seem to be a land shark on this subject. I didn't mean to but mearly just fell into it. What you asked about backward bypassing the system would be great if you could find a way. The biggest problem would be that to do it I'd bet just about any amount of money you'd need to reflash the BCM somehow to get it to ignore the Passlock system. Also, if you could do it, my guess is that GM dealers would let that be an option outside of warranty.
For the time being, my method seems to be the best way to go. BTW, you will get a major bill from your remote starter installer. If that light is on when you go to get it installed, they'll have a real good time with your truck unless they are aware what I say on here. The reason is the exact thing you stated...."these bypasses read the resistance everytime you start the vehicle". Well, if the resistance is off like enough to get your security light to come on the bypass is worthless.
On the '98 s-10 series the BCM is down below the center part of the dash behind the black cover. The plugs face the gas pedal. Over time someone could get that a little wet from slush and snow causing the leads to corrode. I'd take the cover off and unhook the plugs and check for problems there. Then reconnect them and see what happens.
Since you now have that light on, that means the BCM is in "fail enable mode" You can read about this in your owner's manual. It means that you need to get it fixed fast. The system is so bad now that the BCM is ignoring it but it'll only do that for so long.
Good news. Cleaned ignition key switch (lock cylinder) out and removed all extras from the ignition key. It's been working well....no security light at all now. No security problems period. Didn't have to do any altering of any kind. All is safe to install a remote starter and bypass. No fail enable mode from the BCM.
Poncho, I like how you dubbed yourself the "land shark". Are you trying to say no one else has the capability of learning and understanding a complex system as well as you have? Cause believe me, it doesn't take me long to learn anything electrical or mechanical. Just because I haven't had the need to deal w/ a faulty GM security system doesn't mean I won't learn the aspects of it fast...trust me.
As for a remote start. If...and I mean IF I were to allow an installer to touch my truck it would be out of pure convienence....the convienence of not touching a single tool and letting a personal friend/installer do the work. I don't mind supporting a friend and his local business. I'm more than capable of installing anything electrical as well as any mechanical work. Lets just say of the 8 or so GM cars/trucks I've owned, none of them have made a trip to a mechanic let alone a dealership. I have already spoken to my installer and informed him that I won't be needing an overpriced bypass because I will be installing my own bypass in the form of resistors. He's excited to hear the news. One less issue out of the way...less time to spend IF he does the work. As I stated before, I've installed remote starters before. Not a hard job. Only an inconvienence when it's cold outside.
You seem to have the need to give yourself a certain title as if to say "I'm the king of this castle". Whether you realize it or not, that's the vibe you presented. I'm no "newbie" to public boards/forums and see this phenomenom quite often. If your are confident in your knowledge and are truely here to just help, then there is no need to title yourself. With that said, thanks for the responses to the questions on this board. And thanks to those who ask the right questions. I'll post my data and/or results as they happen for those in need of answers.
For the time being, my method seems to be the best way to go. BTW, you will get a major bill from your remote starter installer. If that light is on when you go to get it installed, they'll have a real good time with your truck unless they are aware what I say on here. The reason is the exact thing you stated...."these bypasses read the resistance everytime you start the vehicle". Well, if the resistance is off like enough to get your security light to come on the bypass is worthless.
On the '98 s-10 series the BCM is down below the center part of the dash behind the black cover. The plugs face the gas pedal. Over time someone could get that a little wet from slush and snow causing the leads to corrode. I'd take the cover off and unhook the plugs and check for problems there. Then reconnect them and see what happens.
Since you now have that light on, that means the BCM is in "fail enable mode" You can read about this in your owner's manual. It means that you need to get it fixed fast. The system is so bad now that the BCM is ignoring it but it'll only do that for so long.
Good news. Cleaned ignition key switch (lock cylinder) out and removed all extras from the ignition key. It's been working well....no security light at all now. No security problems period. Didn't have to do any altering of any kind. All is safe to install a remote starter and bypass. No fail enable mode from the BCM.
Poncho, I like how you dubbed yourself the "land shark". Are you trying to say no one else has the capability of learning and understanding a complex system as well as you have? Cause believe me, it doesn't take me long to learn anything electrical or mechanical. Just because I haven't had the need to deal w/ a faulty GM security system doesn't mean I won't learn the aspects of it fast...trust me.
As for a remote start. If...and I mean IF I were to allow an installer to touch my truck it would be out of pure convienence....the convienence of not touching a single tool and letting a personal friend/installer do the work. I don't mind supporting a friend and his local business. I'm more than capable of installing anything electrical as well as any mechanical work. Lets just say of the 8 or so GM cars/trucks I've owned, none of them have made a trip to a mechanic let alone a dealership. I have already spoken to my installer and informed him that I won't be needing an overpriced bypass because I will be installing my own bypass in the form of resistors. He's excited to hear the news. One less issue out of the way...less time to spend IF he does the work. As I stated before, I've installed remote starters before. Not a hard job. Only an inconvienence when it's cold outside.
You seem to have the need to give yourself a certain title as if to say "I'm the king of this castle". Whether you realize it or not, that's the vibe you presented. I'm no "newbie" to public boards/forums and see this phenomenom quite often. If your are confident in your knowledge and are truely here to just help, then there is no need to title yourself. With that said, thanks for the responses to the questions on this board. And thanks to those who ask the right questions. I'll post my data and/or results as they happen for those in need of answers.
ponchonutty
10-28-2008, 07:41 PM
whoops, sorry. Didn't mean to come off like that. What I meant by "land shark" is that I look for posts containing issues with GM's security then give my advise.
Yes, some people have reported decent findings with the cleaning of the ignition cyl. and the removal of unneccessary keys and junk off of the key ring. Most of the vehicles that I've bypassed though the people had tried this with mixed results and just don't want to take the chance of being stranded. Infact, I just bypassed a '99 Malibu this morning!
Yes, some people have reported decent findings with the cleaning of the ignition cyl. and the removal of unneccessary keys and junk off of the key ring. Most of the vehicles that I've bypassed though the people had tried this with mixed results and just don't want to take the chance of being stranded. Infact, I just bypassed a '99 Malibu this morning!
N.J.C.
10-29-2008, 01:36 PM
Yes, some people have reported decent findings with the cleaning of the ignition cyl. and the removal of unneccessary keys and junk off of the key ring. Most of the vehicles that I've bypassed though the people had tried this with mixed results and just don't want to take the chance of being stranded. Infact, I just bypassed a '99 Malibu this morning!
Have had good results still. I have one of those little quick disconnects on the ignition key so when I hop in the truck I remove it from the rest of the key ring so there's no extra weight hanging from the ignition switch.
The bypass is still getting done once I install the remote starter. It's starting to get fairly cold in the mornings so that's coming very soon.
To those who have this happen to them and are frustrated and don't know what else to do, try diconnecting the battery completely. I tried it once for a half an hr and it didn't work so I just disconnected it over night and reconnected it the next morning and the truck started right up. That was the end of my problems until I changed what I mentioned above. Thankfully I was already at home and didn't have anywhere important to go. How long the battery needs to be disconnected is a mystery to me. It probably varies but mine was disconnected for at least 8 hrs but I wasn't in a hurry the next morning.
Have had good results still. I have one of those little quick disconnects on the ignition key so when I hop in the truck I remove it from the rest of the key ring so there's no extra weight hanging from the ignition switch.
The bypass is still getting done once I install the remote starter. It's starting to get fairly cold in the mornings so that's coming very soon.
To those who have this happen to them and are frustrated and don't know what else to do, try diconnecting the battery completely. I tried it once for a half an hr and it didn't work so I just disconnected it over night and reconnected it the next morning and the truck started right up. That was the end of my problems until I changed what I mentioned above. Thankfully I was already at home and didn't have anywhere important to go. How long the battery needs to be disconnected is a mystery to me. It probably varies but mine was disconnected for at least 8 hrs but I wasn't in a hurry the next morning.
ponchonutty
10-29-2008, 03:58 PM
Disconnecting the battery to reset the BCM is at most a 10 minute thing. I am sure it was just a coinsidence that the over night trick worked. Also, if the PK2 is on it's last leg and the car has been driven around with the security light on, it's normally not a good idea to disconnect the battery. Doing so can completely lock you out from being able to start the vehicle.
jerlinux
11-11-2008, 10:21 AM
I have installed a remote start in a 2003 Malibu. In order to make this work, I had to purchase a 791 bypass module to get around the Passlock. As near as I can tell, this module starts and runs as long as the remote start allows the 791 to find a ground.
I wonder if a 791 could be wired into my 2002 impala with a manual switch that would ground the 791. Then, if I once again saw the security light, I could flip the switch, ground the 791 and start the car. Once the car was running, I could unground the 791 by flipping the switch.
I do not think that a remote start would be required and the wiring would be pretty simple.
Has anybody tried this?
I wonder if a 791 could be wired into my 2002 impala with a manual switch that would ground the 791. Then, if I once again saw the security light, I could flip the switch, ground the 791 and start the car. Once the car was running, I could unground the 791 by flipping the switch.
I do not think that a remote start would be required and the wiring would be pretty simple.
Has anybody tried this?
03Alero
11-11-2008, 02:27 PM
I appreciate all the info that people have put on here. I have an 03 Olds Alero, and I"ve been dealing with this problem for quite some time. It got worse and worse, until I was finally having to reset my system 2-3 times per week. I stumbled upon this forum, and I decided to follow the resistor route that many have suggested. I followed the following steps:
1) Started car and cut yellow wire (Security light came on)
2) Measured resistance. I'm not sure if it was me or the multimeter, but I was having a hard time getting a good reading. My best estimate was ~1500 ohms.
3) I installed a 1500 ohm resistor between the yellow wire and the black wire and put everything back together.
4) I started the car, and my security light is still on. I guess it is in bypass mode, and the resistor I installed wasn't close enough to the value it was looking for.
So, my question is how do I force the BCM to reset when it is already in bypass mode? I followed the normal procedure that I used to follow when the car wouldn't start (put key in "On" position and wait 10 mins), but that didn't do anything. Any suggestions?
Thanks!
1) Started car and cut yellow wire (Security light came on)
2) Measured resistance. I'm not sure if it was me or the multimeter, but I was having a hard time getting a good reading. My best estimate was ~1500 ohms.
3) I installed a 1500 ohm resistor between the yellow wire and the black wire and put everything back together.
4) I started the car, and my security light is still on. I guess it is in bypass mode, and the resistor I installed wasn't close enough to the value it was looking for.
So, my question is how do I force the BCM to reset when it is already in bypass mode? I followed the normal procedure that I used to follow when the car wouldn't start (put key in "On" position and wait 10 mins), but that didn't do anything. Any suggestions?
Thanks!
ponchonutty
11-11-2008, 05:36 PM
I appreciate all the info that people have put on here. I have an 03 Olds Alero, and I"ve been dealing with this problem for quite some time. It got worse and worse, until I was finally having to reset my system 2-3 times per week. I stumbled upon this forum, and I decided to follow the resistor route that many have suggested. I followed the following steps:
1) Started car and cut yellow wire (Security light came on)
2) Measured resistance. I'm not sure if it was me or the multimeter, but I was having a hard time getting a good reading. My best estimate was ~1500 ohms.
3) I installed a 1500 ohm resistor between the yellow wire and the black wire and put everything back together.
4) I started the car, and my security light is still on. I guess it is in bypass mode, and the resistor I installed wasn't close enough to the value it was looking for.
So, my question is how do I force the BCM to reset when it is already in bypass mode? I followed the normal procedure that I used to follow when the car wouldn't start (put key in "On" position and wait 10 mins), but that didn't do anything. Any suggestions?
Thanks!
OK you sure you got it back together correctly? The resistor should be between the black wire and the cut yellow wire going to the BCM and not the dash and DO NOT CONNECT THE 2 YELLOW WIRE ENDS BACK TOGETHER. Also, when reading the resistance don't forget to meter the other end of the cut yellow wire after you have it started. If all of that is correct then you have another problem going on. You may need to run another wire from chassis ground to the black ground wire as well. If or when you are 100% you've got it right you can play your dice and unhook the battery for 5 minutes then try to start it. It'll either work or lock you out and then you'll have to do the PK2 relearn sequence.
1) Started car and cut yellow wire (Security light came on)
2) Measured resistance. I'm not sure if it was me or the multimeter, but I was having a hard time getting a good reading. My best estimate was ~1500 ohms.
3) I installed a 1500 ohm resistor between the yellow wire and the black wire and put everything back together.
4) I started the car, and my security light is still on. I guess it is in bypass mode, and the resistor I installed wasn't close enough to the value it was looking for.
So, my question is how do I force the BCM to reset when it is already in bypass mode? I followed the normal procedure that I used to follow when the car wouldn't start (put key in "On" position and wait 10 mins), but that didn't do anything. Any suggestions?
Thanks!
OK you sure you got it back together correctly? The resistor should be between the black wire and the cut yellow wire going to the BCM and not the dash and DO NOT CONNECT THE 2 YELLOW WIRE ENDS BACK TOGETHER. Also, when reading the resistance don't forget to meter the other end of the cut yellow wire after you have it started. If all of that is correct then you have another problem going on. You may need to run another wire from chassis ground to the black ground wire as well. If or when you are 100% you've got it right you can play your dice and unhook the battery for 5 minutes then try to start it. It'll either work or lock you out and then you'll have to do the PK2 relearn sequence.
ponchonutty
11-11-2008, 05:37 PM
I have installed a remote start in a 2003 Malibu. In order to make this work, I had to purchase a 791 bypass module to get around the Passlock. As near as I can tell, this module starts and runs as long as the remote start allows the 791 to find a ground.
I wonder if a 791 could be wired into my 2002 impala with a manual switch that would ground the 791. Then, if I once again saw the security light, I could flip the switch, ground the 791 and start the car. Once the car was running, I could unground the 791 by flipping the switch.
I do not think that a remote start would be required and the wiring would be pretty simple.
Has anybody tried this?
Yes, in theory you could get it to work but then again you'd be paying 1000% more for that bypass instead of just getting resistors.
I wonder if a 791 could be wired into my 2002 impala with a manual switch that would ground the 791. Then, if I once again saw the security light, I could flip the switch, ground the 791 and start the car. Once the car was running, I could unground the 791 by flipping the switch.
I do not think that a remote start would be required and the wiring would be pretty simple.
Has anybody tried this?
Yes, in theory you could get it to work but then again you'd be paying 1000% more for that bypass instead of just getting resistors.
ponchonutty
11-11-2008, 05:41 PM
QUESTIONS ON PEOPLE WITH PK1 vehicles such as a '97 Cavalier. I curious of any of you that have the PK1 version and had problems AND did this bypass. Did it work? The reason I am asking is that the PK1 system has a "bulb check" setup. I had messed with one a long time ago but it didn't work plus I think the vehicle had other issues as well. I'm trying to figure out how to bypass a PK1 which I suppose a simple relay wired off of the ignition switch could work.
N.J.C.
11-12-2008, 01:37 AM
This is an update on my 98 ZR2. As stated before, I was going to install a remote starter...both to have the conveniences as well as hopes to eliminate the PASSLOCK problems I have encountered.
After doing much research and learning how the system works and it's components, I relayed all my info about the system and my problems to my installer. We had a long discussion about it and he told me that he doesn't use a bypass in conjunction w/ the remote starter...instead he goes a big step further and programs the main computer to work flawlessly w/ the remote start system. He said the system can send slightly different resistance values which can still trip the BMC...something to think about for those who plan on using simple resistors to "trick" the BMC.
I didn't know such a path could be taken when installing remote start systems. Yet another thing I recently learned. With no bypass installed and the computer programmed to work with the remote start, the problems w/ the PASSLOCK are history. Surprisingly enough, the computer now sees the signal from the remote start as legitimate and allows the ignition to work as normal. Regardless of any past problems, the computer recognized the remote start as a correct signal and tells the PASSLOCK that all systems are a go. Not only does the remote start work nicely with the factory computer, the reprogram process still allows my factory alarm and lock out feature to still work if a theft does occur. I even have full function of all factory electric locks and lights that blink when the remote signal is received. He even wired in a kill switch for the remote start system should it ever need completely shut down and bypassed for any reason...which was mounted in the fuse panel on the driver side.
Oddly enough, he told me that if I start the truck manually w/ the key, the security light will still come on. He was right. If I start the truck remotely, the light never comes on...even after I install the key and turn it to the on position w/ the truck already running. But the light comes on and stays on when started manually. Either way, since the installation of the remote start system and reprogram of the factory computer, I no longer have lock out issues which results in the ever so frustrating "no start" situation...even if started manually. Good piece of mind!
Now, here's the interesting part. All of this work, besides the remote start module mounted in the dash, was all done through the OBDII port under the dash. What I mean, all of this programming for the remote start system was done w/ a tool that simply plugged into the same port you would check DTC's (diagnostic trouble codes) located under the dash on the driver side. Has anyone else ever seen such a thing? Anyone ever heard of a remote start system programmed this way? I've installed a remote start before on another S series truck and never come across such an option. Pretty darn cool if you ask me!
So, for all of you who are thinking of going w/ a remote start system, check around and find an installer who does it this way. My installer says most use a bypass module that "tricks" the PASSLOCK, but he prefers to do a reprogram of the main computer. Now, this guy is no ordinary installer. He's a retired electrical engineer who happens to have a long background w/ GM vehicles....not to mention over 2500 installs under his belt. This guy gets called in to do installs with stubborn vehicles w/ ignition problems just as those we are discussing. Guess I found the right guy for the job! The installation w/ parts and labor only cost me $200 bones. Everyone else in the entire KC area wanted a min. $250 and used a common bypass module, which also disables the factory alarm...in which an after market alarm would have to be installed to retain a theft deterrent.
As stated before by Mr. Landshark....a vehicle brought in for a remote starter installation w/ the infamous PASSLOCK problems would cost the customer much, much more but in reality, doesn't if you find a highly qualified installer who really knows how the system works and is willing to solve the problem by using the right equipment to reprogram the computer.
After doing much research and learning how the system works and it's components, I relayed all my info about the system and my problems to my installer. We had a long discussion about it and he told me that he doesn't use a bypass in conjunction w/ the remote starter...instead he goes a big step further and programs the main computer to work flawlessly w/ the remote start system. He said the system can send slightly different resistance values which can still trip the BMC...something to think about for those who plan on using simple resistors to "trick" the BMC.
I didn't know such a path could be taken when installing remote start systems. Yet another thing I recently learned. With no bypass installed and the computer programmed to work with the remote start, the problems w/ the PASSLOCK are history. Surprisingly enough, the computer now sees the signal from the remote start as legitimate and allows the ignition to work as normal. Regardless of any past problems, the computer recognized the remote start as a correct signal and tells the PASSLOCK that all systems are a go. Not only does the remote start work nicely with the factory computer, the reprogram process still allows my factory alarm and lock out feature to still work if a theft does occur. I even have full function of all factory electric locks and lights that blink when the remote signal is received. He even wired in a kill switch for the remote start system should it ever need completely shut down and bypassed for any reason...which was mounted in the fuse panel on the driver side.
Oddly enough, he told me that if I start the truck manually w/ the key, the security light will still come on. He was right. If I start the truck remotely, the light never comes on...even after I install the key and turn it to the on position w/ the truck already running. But the light comes on and stays on when started manually. Either way, since the installation of the remote start system and reprogram of the factory computer, I no longer have lock out issues which results in the ever so frustrating "no start" situation...even if started manually. Good piece of mind!
Now, here's the interesting part. All of this work, besides the remote start module mounted in the dash, was all done through the OBDII port under the dash. What I mean, all of this programming for the remote start system was done w/ a tool that simply plugged into the same port you would check DTC's (diagnostic trouble codes) located under the dash on the driver side. Has anyone else ever seen such a thing? Anyone ever heard of a remote start system programmed this way? I've installed a remote start before on another S series truck and never come across such an option. Pretty darn cool if you ask me!
So, for all of you who are thinking of going w/ a remote start system, check around and find an installer who does it this way. My installer says most use a bypass module that "tricks" the PASSLOCK, but he prefers to do a reprogram of the main computer. Now, this guy is no ordinary installer. He's a retired electrical engineer who happens to have a long background w/ GM vehicles....not to mention over 2500 installs under his belt. This guy gets called in to do installs with stubborn vehicles w/ ignition problems just as those we are discussing. Guess I found the right guy for the job! The installation w/ parts and labor only cost me $200 bones. Everyone else in the entire KC area wanted a min. $250 and used a common bypass module, which also disables the factory alarm...in which an after market alarm would have to be installed to retain a theft deterrent.
As stated before by Mr. Landshark....a vehicle brought in for a remote starter installation w/ the infamous PASSLOCK problems would cost the customer much, much more but in reality, doesn't if you find a highly qualified installer who really knows how the system works and is willing to solve the problem by using the right equipment to reprogram the computer.
ponchonutty
11-12-2008, 06:32 AM
:wtf: I have never seen a remote start done this way. I mean I can do this on a 2008 GM vehicle but not an old one like yours. I don't understand how the truck can differentiate between the remote starter or the ignition key other than not using the "key in ignition" switch. If you can bypass the system for the remote start then why not with the ignition key too??? Sounds fishy to me.
I have many programmers in my shop too from a GM Tech2 with the Candi module to a $8,000 SNAP ON unit. What kind of "scanner" did he use? I have spent a lot of time inside a few GM computers but never found an area where it says to ignore the Passlock reading when remote starting or anything close. I've been in this bizz for 15 years and have heard people talking about doing a remote start simular to this but no one ever coughs up ways to do it. I sure would like to hear from your installer. Please send me a PM with his contact information. Telling us that you had this done with out sharing the actual ways of doing it are pointless.
I have many programmers in my shop too from a GM Tech2 with the Candi module to a $8,000 SNAP ON unit. What kind of "scanner" did he use? I have spent a lot of time inside a few GM computers but never found an area where it says to ignore the Passlock reading when remote starting or anything close. I've been in this bizz for 15 years and have heard people talking about doing a remote start simular to this but no one ever coughs up ways to do it. I sure would like to hear from your installer. Please send me a PM with his contact information. Telling us that you had this done with out sharing the actual ways of doing it are pointless.
N.J.C.
11-12-2008, 12:31 PM
:wtf: I have never seen a remote start done this way. I mean I can do this on a 2008 GM vehicle but not an old one like yours. I don't understand how the truck can differentiate between the remote starter or the ignition key other than not using the "key in ignition" switch. If you can bypass the system for the remote start then why not with the ignition key too??? Sounds fishy to me.
I have many programmers in my shop too from a GM Tech2 with the Candi module to a $8,000 SNAP ON unit. What kind of "scanner" did he use? I have spent a lot of time inside a few GM computers but never found an area where it says to ignore the Passlock reading when remote starting or anything close. I've been in this bizz for 15 years and have heard people talking about doing a remote start simular to this but no one ever coughs up ways to do it. I sure would like to hear from your installer. Please send me a PM with his contact information. Telling us that you had this done with out sharing the actual ways of doing it are pointless.
Alright Ponch. First you insult my intellegence a little and I got over that, but now you question my results and methods to get there? You're really starting to pi$$ me off. It's as if it's impossible for someone else to know more than you. You've got a lot to learn man.
If you're so dead set on the fact that it's so impossible and that my installer and I must be full of sh!t, then you call the shop and talk with the owner. If he wants to give out the installers personal number, then that's his business. I can't do that. But he will tell you that he doesn't use a generic bypass module. I'm not out to hide anything...especially hide address and contact info. Call them yourself and ask about installation methods. I'll tell you right now, the owner is going to tell you that he brings in a guy from a couple doors down to do the installs. He's an older guy who only comes in the shop for remote starts and trouble shooting, etc.
So here's the info. Call them...please. Just so you can find out you're not the only "know-it-all" on the planet.
Pittsburg Auto Glass
920 W. 4th St.
Pittsburg, KS 66762
620-235-1111
Owner - Brian
Remote Installer - Tom
I have many programmers in my shop too from a GM Tech2 with the Candi module to a $8,000 SNAP ON unit. What kind of "scanner" did he use? I have spent a lot of time inside a few GM computers but never found an area where it says to ignore the Passlock reading when remote starting or anything close. I've been in this bizz for 15 years and have heard people talking about doing a remote start simular to this but no one ever coughs up ways to do it. I sure would like to hear from your installer. Please send me a PM with his contact information. Telling us that you had this done with out sharing the actual ways of doing it are pointless.
Alright Ponch. First you insult my intellegence a little and I got over that, but now you question my results and methods to get there? You're really starting to pi$$ me off. It's as if it's impossible for someone else to know more than you. You've got a lot to learn man.
If you're so dead set on the fact that it's so impossible and that my installer and I must be full of sh!t, then you call the shop and talk with the owner. If he wants to give out the installers personal number, then that's his business. I can't do that. But he will tell you that he doesn't use a generic bypass module. I'm not out to hide anything...especially hide address and contact info. Call them yourself and ask about installation methods. I'll tell you right now, the owner is going to tell you that he brings in a guy from a couple doors down to do the installs. He's an older guy who only comes in the shop for remote starts and trouble shooting, etc.
So here's the info. Call them...please. Just so you can find out you're not the only "know-it-all" on the planet.
Pittsburg Auto Glass
920 W. 4th St.
Pittsburg, KS 66762
620-235-1111
Owner - Brian
Remote Installer - Tom
jerlinux
11-12-2008, 06:43 PM
Yes, in theory you could get it to work but then again you'd be paying 1000% more for that bypass instead of just getting resistors.
If you have a Sams club membership, the 791 is less than 15 dollars delivered to your home. And you do not have to measure any resistance values nor do you have to cut any wires.
The 791 has to be connected to the yellow and black but it does not break these wires. So you can run the car as GM intended and only use the bypass when necessary.
I might just buy another 791 and give this a try.
If you have a Sams club membership, the 791 is less than 15 dollars delivered to your home. And you do not have to measure any resistance values nor do you have to cut any wires.
The 791 has to be connected to the yellow and black but it does not break these wires. So you can run the car as GM intended and only use the bypass when necessary.
I might just buy another 791 and give this a try.
ponchonutty
11-12-2008, 07:03 PM
Cool thanks. I plan to call them first thing in the morning. This just has be too pumped to hear exactly what they did. I'm not in it to try to make money on this, just trying to see if I can offer multiple ways for customers to rid of these crappy GM security issues!!!
Yeah sorry with my snotty replies. It's just now I'm getting into remote start season and by the time I get on here I'm wipped. Just like today I had to get 8 brand new Fords done with remote starters for a sale they want to have for the weekend. My hands are so tired I can barely type! Agian though I can't wait to give them a call. I hope they'll be free giving in the information. Many places don't like to give away secrets:grinyes:
Alright Ponch. First you insult my intellegence a little and I got over that, but now you question my results and methods to get there? You're really starting to pi$$ me off. It's as if it's impossible for someone else to know more than you. You've got a lot to learn man.
If you're so dead set on the fact that it's so impossible and that my installer and I must be full of sh!t, then you call the shop and talk with the owner. If he wants to give out the installers personal number, then that's his business. I can't do that. But he will tell you that he doesn't use a generic bypass module. I'm not out to hide anything...especially hide address and contact info. Call them yourself and ask about installation methods. I'll tell you right now, the owner is going to tell you that he brings in a guy from a couple doors down to do the installs. He's an older guy who only comes in the shop for remote starts and trouble shooting, etc.
So here's the info. Call them...please. Just so you can find out you're not the only "know-it-all" on the planet.
Pittsburg Auto Glass
920 W. 4th St.
Pittsburg, KS 66762
620-235-1111
Owner - Brian
Remote Installer - Tom
Yeah sorry with my snotty replies. It's just now I'm getting into remote start season and by the time I get on here I'm wipped. Just like today I had to get 8 brand new Fords done with remote starters for a sale they want to have for the weekend. My hands are so tired I can barely type! Agian though I can't wait to give them a call. I hope they'll be free giving in the information. Many places don't like to give away secrets:grinyes:
Alright Ponch. First you insult my intellegence a little and I got over that, but now you question my results and methods to get there? You're really starting to pi$$ me off. It's as if it's impossible for someone else to know more than you. You've got a lot to learn man.
If you're so dead set on the fact that it's so impossible and that my installer and I must be full of sh!t, then you call the shop and talk with the owner. If he wants to give out the installers personal number, then that's his business. I can't do that. But he will tell you that he doesn't use a generic bypass module. I'm not out to hide anything...especially hide address and contact info. Call them yourself and ask about installation methods. I'll tell you right now, the owner is going to tell you that he brings in a guy from a couple doors down to do the installs. He's an older guy who only comes in the shop for remote starts and trouble shooting, etc.
So here's the info. Call them...please. Just so you can find out you're not the only "know-it-all" on the planet.
Pittsburg Auto Glass
920 W. 4th St.
Pittsburg, KS 66762
620-235-1111
Owner - Brian
Remote Installer - Tom
ponchonutty
11-14-2008, 02:13 PM
N.J.C I guess I can continue to be snotty because I just talked to Tom this afternoon. It took me a while because he actually doesn't work where you got your remote start installed but rather is subcontracted to do the work. They gave me his cell phone number. He's a great guy really. We talked for about 20 minutes. He told me that in your truck (which he did remember you because of your theft light issue) he used the GMBP bypass from Directed Electronics Inc. which is made by Trilogex. Here's a link to it http://bypasskit.com/product.aspx?prodid=GMBP He stated that you must have misunderstood what he told you. Yes, it is hooked into the OBD2 connector but he didn't use a scanner or programmer to disable the passlock. This now makes since why it starts fine remotely but has the theft light on if you use a key. The GMBP does use computer logic to bypass the security system but it actually sends out the correct code via the data wire (pin #2 in the plug) to the BCM. If it were simply a programming thing why not correct it when starting with the key??? Why only would it be correct when starting with the remote starter???? This part is where I got lost in what you said before.
I then explained what I've been up to and what I've found out about these Passlock issues. He was actually excited to hear what I've done to bypass these faulty systems so much so he put my direct number in his contacts page. This way if he gets stumped or has an issue he has a better source of information instead of those from DEI (which is the brand or remote starters he uses).
So the end result to completely rid you of your problems with the theft light you should do the resistor trick that I've talked about. This way no matter how you start your truck (nice truck btw, I had one before and loved it) the light will not be on as you drive.
I then explained what I've been up to and what I've found out about these Passlock issues. He was actually excited to hear what I've done to bypass these faulty systems so much so he put my direct number in his contacts page. This way if he gets stumped or has an issue he has a better source of information instead of those from DEI (which is the brand or remote starters he uses).
So the end result to completely rid you of your problems with the theft light you should do the resistor trick that I've talked about. This way no matter how you start your truck (nice truck btw, I had one before and loved it) the light will not be on as you drive.
xuberantz
11-14-2008, 09:26 PM
QUESTIONS ON PEOPLE WITH PK1 vehicles such as a '97 Cavalier. I curious of any of you that have the PK1 version and had problems AND did this bypass. Did it work? The reason I am asking is that the PK1 system has a "bulb check" setup. I had messed with one a long time ago but it didn't work plus I think the vehicle had other issues as well. I'm trying to figure out how to bypass a PK1 which I suppose a simple relay wired off of the ignition switch could work.
I've read through this entire thread trying to figure out a way to fix the Passlock 1 issue in my mothers 96 Chevrolet cavalier. I assume it's a Passlock issue at least, the car cut off and would not turn back on. I went over earlier today and tried to get it running, she said the "Theft System" light came on minutes before the car shut off. The fuel pump is whirring when the key is turned, and the car is getting fire. It doesn't even attempt to start, just turns over & over. I tried leaving the key on the on position for 10-20-30 minutes at a time, and the light never went off. It doesn't blink, it just stays completely illuminated at all times. I tried unhooking the battery, but no luck there...
If you, or anyone else could point me in a direction in which I could proceed to I would highly appreciate it!
I've read through this entire thread trying to figure out a way to fix the Passlock 1 issue in my mothers 96 Chevrolet cavalier. I assume it's a Passlock issue at least, the car cut off and would not turn back on. I went over earlier today and tried to get it running, she said the "Theft System" light came on minutes before the car shut off. The fuel pump is whirring when the key is turned, and the car is getting fire. It doesn't even attempt to start, just turns over & over. I tried leaving the key on the on position for 10-20-30 minutes at a time, and the light never went off. It doesn't blink, it just stays completely illuminated at all times. I tried unhooking the battery, but no luck there...
If you, or anyone else could point me in a direction in which I could proceed to I would highly appreciate it!
ponchonutty
11-14-2008, 10:13 PM
Well the passlock I system is different than that of say the S10 I just posted about. You could have something simple like a bulb out in the dash causing the same issue. Unfortunately you'll need to take it to a shop that has a scanner that shows the actual fault in the system. Not sure if the simple resistor trick will work. I think if could if you used a relay to trip the bulb check circuit.
covertcelery
11-15-2008, 12:44 PM
Alright Ponch. First you insult my intellegence a little and I got over that, but now you question my results and methods to get there? You're really starting to pi$$ me off. It's as if it's impossible for someone else to know more than you. You've got a lot to learn man.
If you're so dead set on the fact that it's so impossible and that my installer and I must be full of sh!t, then you call the shop and talk with the owner. If he wants to give out the installers personal number, then that's his business. I can't do that. But he will tell you that he doesn't use a generic bypass module. I'm not out to hide anything...especially hide address and contact info. Call them yourself and ask about installation methods. I'll tell you right now, the owner is going to tell you that he brings in a guy from a couple doors down to do the installs. He's an older guy who only comes in the shop for remote starts and trouble shooting, etc.
So here's the info. Call them...please. Just so you can find out you're not the only "know-it-all" on the planet.
Pittsburg Auto Glass
920 W. 4th St.
Pittsburg, KS 66762
620-235-1111
Owner - Brian
Remote Installer - Tom
NJC, I hate to burst your bubble dude... But when I did my initial research on trying to figure how to get rid of my PK2 light, guess who's directions I followed.
Now my personal vehicle had other problems that caused the PK2 light to come on, but the bypass method IS w/o a doubt the first thing you must try before delving into anything else.
I'm not a "professional" installer or anything, but I will surely take the word of a guy that's been doing it for 15 years - I'm only going to save myself time and money by doing so. Not only that, but I've been able to do the bypass method on two of my buddies cars' and so far its worked better than good...
I'm just saying - I've done like a 2 month initial research on the problems of the PK2 light before I even started working on my vehicle - and I would have to say that the sheer majority of posts I've studied were from Poncho.
Trust me when I say this, but Poncho's :2cents: is equal to a couple of hundred dollars worth of unnecessary dealer fixes that actually don't fix the problem.
If you're so dead set on the fact that it's so impossible and that my installer and I must be full of sh!t, then you call the shop and talk with the owner. If he wants to give out the installers personal number, then that's his business. I can't do that. But he will tell you that he doesn't use a generic bypass module. I'm not out to hide anything...especially hide address and contact info. Call them yourself and ask about installation methods. I'll tell you right now, the owner is going to tell you that he brings in a guy from a couple doors down to do the installs. He's an older guy who only comes in the shop for remote starts and trouble shooting, etc.
So here's the info. Call them...please. Just so you can find out you're not the only "know-it-all" on the planet.
Pittsburg Auto Glass
920 W. 4th St.
Pittsburg, KS 66762
620-235-1111
Owner - Brian
Remote Installer - Tom
NJC, I hate to burst your bubble dude... But when I did my initial research on trying to figure how to get rid of my PK2 light, guess who's directions I followed.
Now my personal vehicle had other problems that caused the PK2 light to come on, but the bypass method IS w/o a doubt the first thing you must try before delving into anything else.
I'm not a "professional" installer or anything, but I will surely take the word of a guy that's been doing it for 15 years - I'm only going to save myself time and money by doing so. Not only that, but I've been able to do the bypass method on two of my buddies cars' and so far its worked better than good...
I'm just saying - I've done like a 2 month initial research on the problems of the PK2 light before I even started working on my vehicle - and I would have to say that the sheer majority of posts I've studied were from Poncho.
Trust me when I say this, but Poncho's :2cents: is equal to a couple of hundred dollars worth of unnecessary dealer fixes that actually don't fix the problem.
xuberantz
11-15-2008, 05:07 PM
Well the passlock I system is different than that of say the S10 I just posted about. You could have something simple like a bulb out in the dash causing the same issue. Unfortunately you'll need to take it to a shop that has a scanner that shows the actual fault in the system. Not sure if the simple resistor trick will work. I think if could if you used a relay to trip the bulb check circuit.
The bulb check circuit? I'm not sure if this even has to do with the passlock system, the car just died on my mother on her way home from work. Does the passlock system disable the fuel pump, or the injectors? The fuel pump is whirring but I'm not getting any fuel to the rail ( I already added more fuel to the tank to make sure it wasn't empty). I'm just trying to figure out if it's anything to do with the passlock before I start tearing into it. I tore out the ignition key switch and noticed that it just plugs in to the back of the cluster (the three wires off the cylinder lock) how exactly does that work? The key cylinder mechanisim with the three wires did have some black stuff around the wires, not sure if that's a problem or what.
Thanks for all your help!
The bulb check circuit? I'm not sure if this even has to do with the passlock system, the car just died on my mother on her way home from work. Does the passlock system disable the fuel pump, or the injectors? The fuel pump is whirring but I'm not getting any fuel to the rail ( I already added more fuel to the tank to make sure it wasn't empty). I'm just trying to figure out if it's anything to do with the passlock before I start tearing into it. I tore out the ignition key switch and noticed that it just plugs in to the back of the cluster (the three wires off the cylinder lock) how exactly does that work? The key cylinder mechanisim with the three wires did have some black stuff around the wires, not sure if that's a problem or what.
Thanks for all your help!
ponchonutty
11-16-2008, 06:51 AM
Oh OK. If the car died while driving then you've got another problem. The Passlock system wouldn't cause this issue. Did the car show any other problems prior to this happening? There may be an issue with a bad ground or bad BCM or even just simple corrosion in the pins going to the BCM.
The bulb check circuit? I'm not sure if this even has to do with the passlock system, the car just died on my mother on her way home from work. Does the passlock system disable the fuel pump, or the injectors? The fuel pump is whirring but I'm not getting any fuel to the rail ( I already added more fuel to the tank to make sure it wasn't empty). I'm just trying to figure out if it's anything to do with the passlock before I start tearing into it. I tore out the ignition key switch and noticed that it just plugs in to the back of the cluster (the three wires off the cylinder lock) how exactly does that work? The key cylinder mechanisim with the three wires did have some black stuff around the wires, not sure if that's a problem or what.
Thanks for all your help!
The bulb check circuit? I'm not sure if this even has to do with the passlock system, the car just died on my mother on her way home from work. Does the passlock system disable the fuel pump, or the injectors? The fuel pump is whirring but I'm not getting any fuel to the rail ( I already added more fuel to the tank to make sure it wasn't empty). I'm just trying to figure out if it's anything to do with the passlock before I start tearing into it. I tore out the ignition key switch and noticed that it just plugs in to the back of the cluster (the three wires off the cylinder lock) how exactly does that work? The key cylinder mechanisim with the three wires did have some black stuff around the wires, not sure if that's a problem or what.
Thanks for all your help!
logoody
11-20-2008, 12:38 AM
Sorry but what you did wasn't the fix. Also, my way of fixing isn't "hacking" up stuff. What you did was just change the mechanical side of the switch. You needed to change out the "electrical" side of the switch which includes the decoder. When you change out the system you MUST do the relearn sequence per GM instructions. When GM first started having issues with this system while they started doing the same repair you did. At first it seemed to fix the problem but usually with in 6 months, the symptoms come back. Then they swap out the part that holds the decoder. Again, using the GM parts is only temporary while using the resistor is a done deal.
Ponch, I have been keeping up on the threads here and I have a correction. The stock GM ignition switch is of a mechanical point contact type switch. The electrical portion of the switch does not contain the hall effect sensors that operate the passlock system. The hall effect sensors are contained in the tumbler assembly with the key. When the tumbler is removed with the key from the ignition switch, the sensors go with it. I had to replace my ignition switch since the electrical switch contacts were fouled, I disassembled the switch to inspect the contacts, they were burned and pitted. Even though the switch operates with a rotary motion there is no wiping action on the switch so the contacts are never cleaned. I can provide pictures of the switch internals if necessary. It is possible to burnish the contacts and restore the original switch provided they have not been burned and retempered (softened). This requires very little in tools but does require a very fine diamond file or crocus cloth to dress the contacts. I installed a new switch so I have the older one available. I did install a resistor on the passlock circuit to alleviate any issues with that. I posted previously on my extensive investigation on the the system see page 15 for the full write up.
logoody
I am a journyman electronics technician.
Ponch, I have been keeping up on the threads here and I have a correction. The stock GM ignition switch is of a mechanical point contact type switch. The electrical portion of the switch does not contain the hall effect sensors that operate the passlock system. The hall effect sensors are contained in the tumbler assembly with the key. When the tumbler is removed with the key from the ignition switch, the sensors go with it. I had to replace my ignition switch since the electrical switch contacts were fouled, I disassembled the switch to inspect the contacts, they were burned and pitted. Even though the switch operates with a rotary motion there is no wiping action on the switch so the contacts are never cleaned. I can provide pictures of the switch internals if necessary. It is possible to burnish the contacts and restore the original switch provided they have not been burned and retempered (softened). This requires very little in tools but does require a very fine diamond file or crocus cloth to dress the contacts. I installed a new switch so I have the older one available. I did install a resistor on the passlock circuit to alleviate any issues with that. I posted previously on my extensive investigation on the the system see page 15 for the full write up.
logoody
I am a journyman electronics technician.
ponchonutty
11-21-2008, 06:45 AM
Yes I knew that the Passlock system is inside the keyswitch and not in the mechanical side. That's why tons of people think it's just the switch so they unplug the old and put in the new the wonder why they still have the problem. Now, sometimes doing that swap seems to temporarly fix the problem. Also, if the contacts are really worn like you were talking about it could cause the PK2 to trigger. Again, so far the only way I've found it to work the best is to do the resistor install.
slls
11-21-2008, 10:23 AM
Doesn't that go along with the poster that said the main problem was corrosion on the pins, do a better job of cleaning them and the problem won't come back.
ponchonutty
11-21-2008, 03:05 PM
Doesn't that go along with the poster that said the main problem was corrosion on the pins, do a better job of cleaning them and the problem won't come back.
It doesn't matter because eventually it will happen again.
It doesn't matter because eventually it will happen again.
03Alero
11-21-2008, 09:13 PM
OK you sure you got it back together correctly? The resistor should be between the black wire and the cut yellow wire going to the BCM and not the dash and DO NOT CONNECT THE 2 YELLOW WIRE ENDS BACK TOGETHER. Also, when reading the resistance don't forget to meter the other end of the cut yellow wire after you have it started. If all of that is correct then you have another problem going on. You may need to run another wire from chassis ground to the black ground wire as well. If or when you are 100% you've got it right you can play your dice and unhook the battery for 5 minutes then try to start it. It'll either work or lock you out and then you'll have to do the PK2 relearn sequence.
Ok, I tried disconnecting the battery and nothing happened. First, I just unhooked the negative cable for a few minutes. When I reconnected the terminal, the security light was still on. Not wanting to mess around, I went ahead and disconnected the entire battery (positive and negative) overnight. When I reconnected the terminals, the security light was still on. Also, I was surprised that I did not lose my pre-sets in my radio, although my clock was reset. Any thoughts?
Ok, I tried disconnecting the battery and nothing happened. First, I just unhooked the negative cable for a few minutes. When I reconnected the terminal, the security light was still on. Not wanting to mess around, I went ahead and disconnected the entire battery (positive and negative) overnight. When I reconnected the terminals, the security light was still on. Also, I was surprised that I did not lose my pre-sets in my radio, although my clock was reset. Any thoughts?
ponchonutty
11-23-2008, 06:49 AM
Do you mean the security light is on constant or just when you try to start it? If it's on all the time you have an issue with the BCM. You can try to unplug the BCM then see what happens when you plug it back in.
03Alero
11-24-2008, 01:46 PM
Do you mean the security light is on constant or just when you try to start it? If it's on all the time you have an issue with the BCM. You can try to unplug the BCM then see what happens when you plug it back in.
It is on all the time, even when it is running. I will try unplugging the BCM and report back. Thanks again for your help.
It is on all the time, even when it is running. I will try unplugging the BCM and report back. Thanks again for your help.
ponchonutty
11-24-2008, 08:12 PM
If it stays lit even when you are not running the engine it's certainly a BCM or harness to the BCM problem with out a doubt.
tech JK
11-25-2008, 10:29 PM
Nope, no such thing as a toggle switch from the factory.
tech JK
11-25-2008, 10:32 PM
No such thing as a toggle switch from the factory. This is aftermarket. The aftermarket systems play havoc on the factory system.
ponchonutty
11-26-2008, 08:49 AM
No such thing as a toggle switch from the factory. This is aftermarket. The aftermarket systems play havoc on the factory system.
What in the world are you talking about???? Even not knowing what you are talking about, not ALL aftermarket systems play havoc with ALL factory systems. If that was the case, there wouldn't be an aftermarket segment.
What in the world are you talking about???? Even not knowing what you are talking about, not ALL aftermarket systems play havoc with ALL factory systems. If that was the case, there wouldn't be an aftermarket segment.
tech JK
11-30-2008, 05:04 PM
Toggle switch definately NOT factory. There must be an old alarm or remote start. These play havac with the factory system.
-----------------
Yeah, I'm not so sure that the toggle switch is original equipment. As for disabling Passlock 1 or 2, it can be done fairly easily. I did this to my 2002 Olds Alero with Passlock 2. Yours is apparently Passlock 2 also according to these photos that follow. You don't have to install a toggle switch, but I would suggest it in case you go to a dealership for service and they need the Passlock re-enabled. I'm sure they will try to tell you that you shouldn't do this. You can just print out this article to educate them on their own system. The BCM is already programmed to go into "fail-enable" mode when the key reference circuit (yellow passlock wire) is broken (cut) while the engine is running. That's the key ---- while the engine is running. The security/anti-theft light will come on and stay on until the circuit is repaired. Your Passlock is now disabled. Just don't repair the circuit (reconnect the wire) unless absolutely necessary. I have read where others just tape up both ends of the cut yellow wire and leave it that way. This probably works fine, but I like the idea of being able to repair the circuit by the flip of a switch. (Just in case.)
This is the MOTOR AGE article describing "fail-enable" mode:
http://www.motorage.com/motorage/data/articlestandard/motorage/292005/169809/article.pdf
page 3, If the correct key is in the cylinder and that circuit
fails while the engine is running, this is considered a
malfunction, not a theft attempt. The “Security” light
may turn on to warn of a system malfunction, but even if
it doesn’t, a key recognition circuit failure with the proper
key in the lock will cause the TDM to enter what GM
calls a “fail-enable” mode. Essentially, the theft-deterrent
system goes offline and the engine will start and run
with any key that turns the lock.
Here are 2001 Malibu photos to help you get to the Yellow Passlock 2 wire to cut it while the engine is running. Read the directions below each photo. By the looks of these photos, you should probably go ahead and start your car with your key (no keyring or keys attached) so you won't have to figure out how to start it with the Switch in an unsecure position later in the process.
http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=761&link=BULLDOG
http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=762&link=BULLDOG
http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=765&link=BULLDOG
http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=766&link=BULLDOG
http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=768&link=BULLDOG
http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=769&link=BULLDOG
http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=772&link=BULLDOG
http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=775&link=BULLDOG
http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=777&link=BULLDOG
That yellow wire is the one to clip while the car is running! Incidentally, Malibus, Grand AMs and Aleros are all having the same Passlock problems. Coincidentally, we all have the same part # for the Ignition Lock Cylinder. A Passlock sensor is built into this cylinder. If this sensor goes bad, you have to replace the entire Ignition Lock Cylinder. GM is making a killing and so are the dealerships. I'm not knocking the Certified Technicians, they are just doing what they are trained to do. How can anyone deny that this part is defective? If you are tired of having to wait to start the car that you worked so hard to buy with your own money, you should be able to disable the Passlock if you want to. This is just one way to do it. Here is the Ignition Lock Cylinder part # and I hope this disablement will really help some of you.
1999 - 2004 Alero
1997 - 2003 Malibu
1999 - 2004 Grand Am
The GM part number is 12458191.
-----------------
Yeah, I'm not so sure that the toggle switch is original equipment. As for disabling Passlock 1 or 2, it can be done fairly easily. I did this to my 2002 Olds Alero with Passlock 2. Yours is apparently Passlock 2 also according to these photos that follow. You don't have to install a toggle switch, but I would suggest it in case you go to a dealership for service and they need the Passlock re-enabled. I'm sure they will try to tell you that you shouldn't do this. You can just print out this article to educate them on their own system. The BCM is already programmed to go into "fail-enable" mode when the key reference circuit (yellow passlock wire) is broken (cut) while the engine is running. That's the key ---- while the engine is running. The security/anti-theft light will come on and stay on until the circuit is repaired. Your Passlock is now disabled. Just don't repair the circuit (reconnect the wire) unless absolutely necessary. I have read where others just tape up both ends of the cut yellow wire and leave it that way. This probably works fine, but I like the idea of being able to repair the circuit by the flip of a switch. (Just in case.)
This is the MOTOR AGE article describing "fail-enable" mode:
http://www.motorage.com/motorage/data/articlestandard/motorage/292005/169809/article.pdf
page 3, If the correct key is in the cylinder and that circuit
fails while the engine is running, this is considered a
malfunction, not a theft attempt. The “Security” light
may turn on to warn of a system malfunction, but even if
it doesn’t, a key recognition circuit failure with the proper
key in the lock will cause the TDM to enter what GM
calls a “fail-enable” mode. Essentially, the theft-deterrent
system goes offline and the engine will start and run
with any key that turns the lock.
Here are 2001 Malibu photos to help you get to the Yellow Passlock 2 wire to cut it while the engine is running. Read the directions below each photo. By the looks of these photos, you should probably go ahead and start your car with your key (no keyring or keys attached) so you won't have to figure out how to start it with the Switch in an unsecure position later in the process.
http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=761&link=BULLDOG
http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=762&link=BULLDOG
http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=765&link=BULLDOG
http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=766&link=BULLDOG
http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=768&link=BULLDOG
http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=769&link=BULLDOG
http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=772&link=BULLDOG
http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=775&link=BULLDOG
http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=777&link=BULLDOG
That yellow wire is the one to clip while the car is running! Incidentally, Malibus, Grand AMs and Aleros are all having the same Passlock problems. Coincidentally, we all have the same part # for the Ignition Lock Cylinder. A Passlock sensor is built into this cylinder. If this sensor goes bad, you have to replace the entire Ignition Lock Cylinder. GM is making a killing and so are the dealerships. I'm not knocking the Certified Technicians, they are just doing what they are trained to do. How can anyone deny that this part is defective? If you are tired of having to wait to start the car that you worked so hard to buy with your own money, you should be able to disable the Passlock if you want to. This is just one way to do it. Here is the Ignition Lock Cylinder part # and I hope this disablement will really help some of you.
1999 - 2004 Alero
1997 - 2003 Malibu
1999 - 2004 Grand Am
The GM part number is 12458191.
ponchonutty
12-01-2008, 08:51 PM
OK That post talks about just cutting the yellow wire in the passlock system which yes will work until the car's battery fails or goes dead. He'd be better off using my resistor method instead.
xuberantz
12-04-2008, 05:12 PM
I'm back again with some more questions, I bought a new ignition key cylinder, and key. I replaced it and turned the car over. With the key on the run position the security light started blinking (IT HAS NOT DONE THIS SINCE THE ISSUE AROSE). I let it continue for 10 minutes, and it stopped blinking -but stayed illuminated-. I turned the key off for approx 1 min and tried to start the car.. nothing the light is on again and not blinking. Is this a problem with the PCM or what? I have another on the way recoded to my vin, but why did all of the sudden when I replaced the key lock it started blinking like it was going to do the relearn procedure but ultimately stay on?
I unhooked the batter for awhile, and tried it again.. and the light was on, and stayed on like it did before I replaced the switch.. I'm so confused!!! :rolleyes:
Thanks for any insight.
I unhooked the batter for awhile, and tried it again.. and the light was on, and stayed on like it did before I replaced the switch.. I'm so confused!!! :rolleyes:
Thanks for any insight.
ponchonutty
12-04-2008, 08:27 PM
It did this becuase you didn't replace the PK2 decoder. The switch has nothing to do with the problem you have.
I'm back again with some more questions, I bought a new ignition key cylinder, and key. I replaced it and turned the car over. With the key on the run position the security light started blinking (IT HAS NOT DONE THIS SINCE THE ISSUE AROSE). I let it continue for 10 minutes, and it stopped blinking -but stayed illuminated-. I turned the key off for approx 1 min and tried to start the car.. nothing the light is on again and not blinking. Is this a problem with the PCM or what? I have another on the way recoded to my vin, but why did all of the sudden when I replaced the key lock it started blinking like it was going to do the relearn procedure but ultimately stay on?
I unhooked the batter for awhile, and tried it again.. and the light was on, and stayed on like it did before I replaced the switch.. I'm so confused!!! :rolleyes:
Thanks for any insight.
I'm back again with some more questions, I bought a new ignition key cylinder, and key. I replaced it and turned the car over. With the key on the run position the security light started blinking (IT HAS NOT DONE THIS SINCE THE ISSUE AROSE). I let it continue for 10 minutes, and it stopped blinking -but stayed illuminated-. I turned the key off for approx 1 min and tried to start the car.. nothing the light is on again and not blinking. Is this a problem with the PCM or what? I have another on the way recoded to my vin, but why did all of the sudden when I replaced the key lock it started blinking like it was going to do the relearn procedure but ultimately stay on?
I unhooked the batter for awhile, and tried it again.. and the light was on, and stayed on like it did before I replaced the switch.. I'm so confused!!! :rolleyes:
Thanks for any insight.
xuberantz
12-05-2008, 12:20 AM
It did this becuase you didn't replace the PK2 decoder. The switch has nothing to do with the problem you have.
Mind telling me how to replace the PK2 decoder on a PK1 car? It's either wiring (highly unlikely) PCM, instrument cluster, or the ignition key switch that plugs into the back of the instrument cluster (I just replaced that).
I'm leaning more and more towards the computer.
Mind telling me how to replace the PK2 decoder on a PK1 car? It's either wiring (highly unlikely) PCM, instrument cluster, or the ignition key switch that plugs into the back of the instrument cluster (I just replaced that).
I'm leaning more and more towards the computer.
xuberantz
12-05-2008, 01:48 PM
Replaced the PCM (programmed to vin) and still nothing... The light stays illuminated at all times. I still can't figure out why yesterday when I replaced the ignition key switch (wires that go to the instrumetn cluster) it actually started blinking like it was going ot do the relearn, but ultimately stayed illuminated.. The only thing left to replace is the instrument cluster?
ughhhhhh, I hate going in circles with this pos car.
ughhhhhh, I hate going in circles with this pos car.
ponchonutty
12-06-2008, 08:19 PM
Sorry, I thought it was a newer cavalier. The one your mom has can be very tricky because it can indeed be the instrument cluster being the issue. You could try to use my resistor trick but you might have to use a relay being triggered off of the starter wire to send both the proper r value and a ground to the bulb check wire.
try to get on to this website. Not sure if it'll let you or not.
http://www.directeddealers.com/manuals/ig/accessories/2555321_555L_OK-0H_to_current_Installation_Guide.pdf
try to get on to this website. Not sure if it'll let you or not.
http://www.directeddealers.com/manuals/ig/accessories/2555321_555L_OK-0H_to_current_Installation_Guide.pdf
xuberantz
12-07-2008, 11:38 PM
I replaced the instrument cluster with a used one, and no go. I was wondering if you could PM me ponch and walk me through what I need to do to try, (I can solder, but i'm very new to all this so you may have to hold my hand and walk me through it with exactly what I need to do) because I am really running out of ideas and it's her only transportation so I really need to get it running.
Thank you.
Thank you.
ponchonutty
12-09-2008, 06:36 AM
Tell me first what it's doing now when it won't start. What is the security light doing? You may want to try the relearn technique before going any further.
I think we could try to use 2 relays with the proper resistance to fool the system. Again, I don't know for sure it this will work. That's why I want to rule out everything else. You've changed a few things so maybe a relearn would take care of everything????
I think we could try to use 2 relays with the proper resistance to fool the system. Again, I don't know for sure it this will work. That's why I want to rule out everything else. You've changed a few things so maybe a relearn would take care of everything????
xuberantz
12-09-2008, 04:23 PM
Tell me first what it's doing now when it won't start. What is the security light doing? You may want to try the relearn technique before going any further.
I think we could try to use 2 relays with the proper resistance to fool the system. Again, I don't know for sure it this will work. That's why I want to rule out everything else. You've changed a few things so maybe a relearn would take care of everything????
It did the blinking relearn when I put the instrument cluster in, after 10 minutes it stayed on. I turned it off 10 seconds and back on and tried to start, but no go. The light is on again, no blinking just steady..
I think we could try to use 2 relays with the proper resistance to fool the system. Again, I don't know for sure it this will work. That's why I want to rule out everything else. You've changed a few things so maybe a relearn would take care of everything????
It did the blinking relearn when I put the instrument cluster in, after 10 minutes it stayed on. I turned it off 10 seconds and back on and tried to start, but no go. The light is on again, no blinking just steady..
ponchonutty
12-09-2008, 05:20 PM
Well, to do the relearn the light should blink after you crank it. Then shut it off and imediately crank it over. If it doesn't start leave the ignition on for 11 minutes. After then try to start it, if the same happens, leave the ignition on for another 11 minutes and try it again. It's not uncommon to take 45 minutes or longer to do this.
xuberantz
12-09-2008, 10:41 PM
Well, to do the relearn the light should blink after you crank it. Then shut it off and imediately crank it over. If it doesn't start leave the ignition on for 11 minutes. After then try to start it, if the same happens, leave the ignition on for another 11 minutes and try it again. It's not uncommon to take 45 minutes or longer to do this.
I've done this over, and over and over again, and after the first learn (light blinking) it just stays on after that everytime I turn the key on (even when leaving it for 15 minutes, turning it off, doing it again, and so on so forth).
I've done this over, and over and over again, and after the first learn (light blinking) it just stays on after that everytime I turn the key on (even when leaving it for 15 minutes, turning it off, doing it again, and so on so forth).
ponchonutty
12-10-2008, 06:48 AM
Hmm, well either somehthings up with the wiring to or from the cluster, the bcm, or the bcm itself is toast. You could try to do a bypass on this system but I've never tried it. I have an idea how to do it but I've never tested it.
xuberantz
12-10-2008, 11:06 AM
Hmm, well either somehthings up with the wiring to or from the cluster, the bcm, or the bcm itself is toast. You could try to do a bypass on this system but I've never tried it. I have an idea how to do it but I've never tested it.
I understand you've never tried it but at this point i'm willing to try anything, so shoot it at me.
I understand you've never tried it but at this point i'm willing to try anything, so shoot it at me.
mvickip
12-10-2008, 01:14 PM
I am not sure if it is my Passlok system or what. I have 2004 Malibu Classic. Car always starts after it has set for an extended time. It has recently gotten to where if I have been driving it and get out to go into the store for a short time, when I come back it will turn over but not start. Theft light is off. If I try to start two or three times it will typically start. I have been driving and noticed that speedometer and tach dropped to zero for about 2 seconds and theft light flashed and then everything went back to normal and engine continued to keep running. Two days ago when I went in the store and came out the vehicle would not start. Left the ignition on to try the 11 minute trick. After about two minutes doors locked again, buzzer went off, theft light came on and went off. Tried vehicle and it started right up. Similar issues to what is posted but also different. Is this an ignition switch? Would appreciate your thoughts
ponchonutty
12-12-2008, 06:34 AM
Sounds like your BCM is going bad or there's a short in the harness for sure. You'll have to take it to a technician and have them hook it up to their scanner. I'm sure it'll say there's a loss of data communication.
I am not sure if it is my Passlok system or what. I have 2004 Malibu Classic. Car always starts after it has set for an extended time. It has recently gotten to where if I have been driving it and get out to go into the store for a short time, when I come back it will turn over but not start. Theft light is off. If I try to start two or three times it will typically start. I have been driving and noticed that speedometer and tach dropped to zero for about 2 seconds and theft light flashed and then everything went back to normal and engine continued to keep running. Two days ago when I went in the store and came out the vehicle would not start. Left the ignition on to try the 11 minute trick. After about two minutes doors locked again, buzzer went off, theft light came on and went off. Tried vehicle and it started right up. Similar issues to what is posted but also different. Is this an ignition switch? Would appreciate your thoughts
I am not sure if it is my Passlok system or what. I have 2004 Malibu Classic. Car always starts after it has set for an extended time. It has recently gotten to where if I have been driving it and get out to go into the store for a short time, when I come back it will turn over but not start. Theft light is off. If I try to start two or three times it will typically start. I have been driving and noticed that speedometer and tach dropped to zero for about 2 seconds and theft light flashed and then everything went back to normal and engine continued to keep running. Two days ago when I went in the store and came out the vehicle would not start. Left the ignition on to try the 11 minute trick. After about two minutes doors locked again, buzzer went off, theft light came on and went off. Tried vehicle and it started right up. Similar issues to what is posted but also different. Is this an ignition switch? Would appreciate your thoughts
ponchonutty
12-12-2008, 06:44 AM
I understand you've never tried it but at this point i'm willing to try anything, so shoot it at me.
OK. You can try this. I think this would be the easiest thing. Find a 555L or 556L bypass from Directed electronics. Hook it up as it states except for the starter wire and ground when running wire and then do the programming it says to. Then get 2 relays and hook one off of the ignition wire to send out a neg. output and hook that to the ground when running wire. Take the other relay and hook it to the starter relay so it sends out a neg. when you crank the car over.
You could do this as well just using relays and resistors but if you haven't really got into one of these systems before I think it'd be a little too daunting.
OK. You can try this. I think this would be the easiest thing. Find a 555L or 556L bypass from Directed electronics. Hook it up as it states except for the starter wire and ground when running wire and then do the programming it says to. Then get 2 relays and hook one off of the ignition wire to send out a neg. output and hook that to the ground when running wire. Take the other relay and hook it to the starter relay so it sends out a neg. when you crank the car over.
You could do this as well just using relays and resistors but if you haven't really got into one of these systems before I think it'd be a little too daunting.
03Alero
01-03-2009, 04:09 PM
If it stays lit even when you are not running the engine it's certainly a BCM or harness to the BCM problem with out a doubt.
Ok, I finally got around to disconnecting the BCM for a few minutes before reconnecting. I still have the security light on (solid) whenever the car is running. To recap:
1) I followed the resistor procedure and the car now runs, but the security light is always on
2) I disconnected the battery overnight. When I reconnected the battery, the security light is still on all the time.
3) I disconnected the BCM. No change
Ever since the initial procedure, I have had no trouble with the car not starting. The problem is completely gone. However, I am worried that some day the computer is going to get reset and the car will no longer start and strand me somewhere.
Any thoughts about what to do next?
Thanks again.
Ok, I finally got around to disconnecting the BCM for a few minutes before reconnecting. I still have the security light on (solid) whenever the car is running. To recap:
1) I followed the resistor procedure and the car now runs, but the security light is always on
2) I disconnected the battery overnight. When I reconnected the battery, the security light is still on all the time.
3) I disconnected the BCM. No change
Ever since the initial procedure, I have had no trouble with the car not starting. The problem is completely gone. However, I am worried that some day the computer is going to get reset and the car will no longer start and strand me somewhere.
Any thoughts about what to do next?
Thanks again.
isetheby
01-03-2009, 10:35 PM
Hi There Folks
First I probably give you the info on what happened to me.
I own a 2003 3.4l impala. I bought it in June and it had 34 500 km. It now has approx 47,000 km. About a month ago a light came on indicating I needed an oil change. I ignored it and about a week later the check engine light came on. I usually only drive in the city, fairly short runs. About 3 weeks ago I drove out of town approx 200km. Stopped in to get some grub, came out, car wouldn't start. Not a gig. Tried a boost, nothing. With the key in the on position, the security light came on along with the battery light and the pic of a car with an opened ended wrench on the side of it. The door transponder wouldn't work or the trunk opener. The power windows buttons worked, the wipers worked but the radio didn't work and the dome lights didn't work. Waited 1/2 an hour, turned the key, perfect. Drove back to town and stopped at a store, come out turned the key, not a gig. Waited 20 mins and it started. Drove the car around in town for 3 weeks not a hitch. Went out of town again (200km) same thing happened. No start. Waited 1/2 an hour and she started. I thought that it might have something to do with the long run. Now the problem is occurring on a daily basis. Broke down the other day, called the dealership and they suggested it was probably the battery. They also told me that they never came across this problem before. What a crock. Bought a battery for $116.00, put it in, car started, eureka, problem solved right, Wrong! Later that afternoon of about 3 stops and starts on the 4th, no start. Waited 1/2 an hour, car started. The next day I decided to go do my business so I took the extra set of keys and would leave the car running, lock the doors with the remote. I would come out press the unlock door button, best kind. Done this about 5 times worked ok. The 6th time it didn't work. Had to use the key to open the door. My buddy is a mechanic and he put it on the scan tool. Apparently it showed a "u" code which is a communication code. Apparently there are 4 computers in the car. The BCM, ABS computer, Air Bag computer and the anti theft. Apparently all these computers are supposed to be yakking to each other. For some reason the anti theft is not talking to the air bag, which in turn is causing my car not to start. What's up with that? If someone needs the exact code numbers let me know.
GM has a serious issue with their Pass Lock system.
Now I have investigated a lot of weird stuff but this one is all GM (To blame).
To make a very long "root cause investigation" short...
1) They (GM) have used connectors in the ignition Pass Lock system which do not
mate up properly.
2) They (GM) did not use gold plated connector pins for this specific application.
3) They (GM) did not understand compensating software for the Body Computer.
The main issue is that, over time, the Pass Lock connector pins oxidize.
This oxidation changes the critical analog Pass Lock signal to the Body Computer.
So the Security light comes on whenever and the car does not start whenever.
You can buy a Pass Lock "bypass kit" online and disable the system... easy and cheap.
I ended up hand soldering the three wires (Black, White and yellow) directly to the
Pass Lock sensor on the ignition switch. Not so easy but it does not disable the security system...
My Impala is finally fixed and it cost me nothing...
So now everyone knows the truth about your expensive GM problem!
Maybe a Consumer Advocacy group would like to contact me as a "key wittiness" in some litigation?
I have a very advanced background in Electronics, Automotive Engine Management Systems and a Degree in Computer Science. Presently I am working as an Embedded Software Engineer.
Dr Zach
I have to go to the Dealer on Monday and their going to do a scan $95.00 an hour and if the ignition is gone and they have to replace it, it takes another 1/2 an hour to program it and I don't know the cost of the switch. Should I try to bypass the Passlock 2 system by cutting the yellow wire and installing a toggle switch.
Thanks
Bill
First I probably give you the info on what happened to me.
I own a 2003 3.4l impala. I bought it in June and it had 34 500 km. It now has approx 47,000 km. About a month ago a light came on indicating I needed an oil change. I ignored it and about a week later the check engine light came on. I usually only drive in the city, fairly short runs. About 3 weeks ago I drove out of town approx 200km. Stopped in to get some grub, came out, car wouldn't start. Not a gig. Tried a boost, nothing. With the key in the on position, the security light came on along with the battery light and the pic of a car with an opened ended wrench on the side of it. The door transponder wouldn't work or the trunk opener. The power windows buttons worked, the wipers worked but the radio didn't work and the dome lights didn't work. Waited 1/2 an hour, turned the key, perfect. Drove back to town and stopped at a store, come out turned the key, not a gig. Waited 20 mins and it started. Drove the car around in town for 3 weeks not a hitch. Went out of town again (200km) same thing happened. No start. Waited 1/2 an hour and she started. I thought that it might have something to do with the long run. Now the problem is occurring on a daily basis. Broke down the other day, called the dealership and they suggested it was probably the battery. They also told me that they never came across this problem before. What a crock. Bought a battery for $116.00, put it in, car started, eureka, problem solved right, Wrong! Later that afternoon of about 3 stops and starts on the 4th, no start. Waited 1/2 an hour, car started. The next day I decided to go do my business so I took the extra set of keys and would leave the car running, lock the doors with the remote. I would come out press the unlock door button, best kind. Done this about 5 times worked ok. The 6th time it didn't work. Had to use the key to open the door. My buddy is a mechanic and he put it on the scan tool. Apparently it showed a "u" code which is a communication code. Apparently there are 4 computers in the car. The BCM, ABS computer, Air Bag computer and the anti theft. Apparently all these computers are supposed to be yakking to each other. For some reason the anti theft is not talking to the air bag, which in turn is causing my car not to start. What's up with that? If someone needs the exact code numbers let me know.
GM has a serious issue with their Pass Lock system.
Now I have investigated a lot of weird stuff but this one is all GM (To blame).
To make a very long "root cause investigation" short...
1) They (GM) have used connectors in the ignition Pass Lock system which do not
mate up properly.
2) They (GM) did not use gold plated connector pins for this specific application.
3) They (GM) did not understand compensating software for the Body Computer.
The main issue is that, over time, the Pass Lock connector pins oxidize.
This oxidation changes the critical analog Pass Lock signal to the Body Computer.
So the Security light comes on whenever and the car does not start whenever.
You can buy a Pass Lock "bypass kit" online and disable the system... easy and cheap.
I ended up hand soldering the three wires (Black, White and yellow) directly to the
Pass Lock sensor on the ignition switch. Not so easy but it does not disable the security system...
My Impala is finally fixed and it cost me nothing...
So now everyone knows the truth about your expensive GM problem!
Maybe a Consumer Advocacy group would like to contact me as a "key wittiness" in some litigation?
I have a very advanced background in Electronics, Automotive Engine Management Systems and a Degree in Computer Science. Presently I am working as an Embedded Software Engineer.
Dr Zach
I have to go to the Dealer on Monday and their going to do a scan $95.00 an hour and if the ignition is gone and they have to replace it, it takes another 1/2 an hour to program it and I don't know the cost of the switch. Should I try to bypass the Passlock 2 system by cutting the yellow wire and installing a toggle switch.
Thanks
Bill
ponchonutty
01-04-2009, 08:17 AM
No. The toggle switch will not cure your problem. You should do the resistor trick like what I've stated before.
FISH96
01-04-2009, 01:26 PM
dear isetheby aka dr zack,
this is a nagging problemlok at the size of the thread. is there any chance you able to post the precedure(photos, schematic, location of said components,etc.?
regards and be well, fish96
this is a nagging problemlok at the size of the thread. is there any chance you able to post the precedure(photos, schematic, location of said components,etc.?
regards and be well, fish96
ponchonutty
01-05-2009, 06:32 AM
Interesting. Normally when you do the resistor trick it'll normally either start everytime or won't at all. When you turn the ignition on but not in the run position does the security light flash???? You may need to try the PK2 relearn procedure.
Ok, I finally got around to disconnecting the BCM for a few minutes before reconnecting. I still have the security light on (solid) whenever the car is running. To recap:
1) I followed the resistor procedure and the car now runs, but the security light is always on
2) I disconnected the battery overnight. When I reconnected the battery, the security light is still on all the time.
3) I disconnected the BCM. No change
Ever since the initial procedure, I have had no trouble with the car not starting. The problem is completely gone. However, I am worried that some day the computer is going to get reset and the car will no longer start and strand me somewhere.
Any thoughts about what to do next?
Thanks again.
Ok, I finally got around to disconnecting the BCM for a few minutes before reconnecting. I still have the security light on (solid) whenever the car is running. To recap:
1) I followed the resistor procedure and the car now runs, but the security light is always on
2) I disconnected the battery overnight. When I reconnected the battery, the security light is still on all the time.
3) I disconnected the BCM. No change
Ever since the initial procedure, I have had no trouble with the car not starting. The problem is completely gone. However, I am worried that some day the computer is going to get reset and the car will no longer start and strand me somewhere.
Any thoughts about what to do next?
Thanks again.
BjoyS
01-07-2009, 10:53 AM
I have a 2002 Alero,In my manual they refer to this system as a disabler, It doesn't only work for anti theft purposes but disables the ignition when service lights are ignored....Does this cutting the yellow wire and adding a toggle switch work for my car ?? I am sooooo tired of this damn thing going off for no reason...I am a health care worker who drives from home to home and having to wait an extra ten minutes between clients cuts into my paycheque.
Anyone with any help or answers would be sooo appreciated.
Anyone with any help or answers would be sooo appreciated.
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