redlining good or bad?

[z28 boy]

I have read many of the threads and responses and I see that some people beleive that alot of red line is not good. I may only be 19 but ever since I was little I thought that more redline ment more power. My mechanic recently told me that that was not always true. When I race my car a 2000 z28 A4 I move the shifter from 1-2 at 5000 bt the tranny doesn't shift till about 6200 is that good or bad? Also I have noticed that people say that max hp is between 5000 to 5800 but when I am driving in traffic and I have to get on the gas, not flooring it just giving it a little bit of gas the tires break loose at about 4000 rpms in OD. What is that about. Is that where my power is? Should I shift earlier? Also I bought my car used and it came with smaller tires than normal. When I thirty punch I start in 1st at about 4000 Rpms and I shift into 2nd and every one I race is still in 1st even the mustangs. I raced my friends 35th anniversary z28 and I got him on the take off he said he heard me spin the tires from the 1-2 shift when he was still in first. I also raced a newer Mustang GT from a dead stop like the camaro and I gave him a car length head start and I passed while still in first hit second and he was still in first. Is it cause of the tires? All cars were automatics. Oh and I whipped the shit out of them both.

[vettemaan]

The problem with this is your transmission, it is not meant to be used like you are using it, it will be MUCH better for the car if you leave it in overdrive if you "Must" race. you are stressing your engine.

[Zwrangler]

its not a surprise you beat those stangs anyway. a 2000 ls1 camaro will eat up a stang with no problems at all. You're pushing a hell of a lot more hp so you should be worried if you lost not won

[89IROC&RS]

redline is a fluid thing, differes from engine to engine, model to model, make to make. shifting at redline, is not bad for the engine running it at redline for extended periods of time, is bad for the engine. i think redline for the LS1 is 6000, so you should be ok. i would also argue that you are shifting just fine, i drive my auto the same way, have done so for the past four years, and have never had any negitive consequences. rpm has no bearing on hp, that is false. peak power is determeined by your heads, cam, and compression. im not sure exactly what rpm the peak power of the LS1 is at, but someone on here probly does. probly BLkcamaroSS. as far as kickin everyones ass, your probly just a better driver than your friend, and the mustangs are slower.

[Hypsi87]

Originally Posted by vettemaan

The problem with this is your transmission, it is not meant to be used like you are using it, it will be MUCH better for the car if you leave it in overdrive if you "Must" race. you are stressing your engine.

I have a friend with a 2002 z28 and he knocked about 3 tenths of a second off of his time consitantly by leaving the car in drive.

[z28 boy]

There might something to that hypsis87 cause my friend with the 35th anniversary Z28 beat another friend in a 99ws6 while in overdrive. The ws6 has some kind of gears cause he cant thirty punch in 1st like us. he says he is salmost redlining. he bought the car like that.

[drvngstorm05]

Originally Posted by 89IROC&RS

redline is a fluid thing, differes from engine to engine, model to model, make to make. shifting at redline, is not bad for the engine running it at redline for extended periods of time, is bad for the engine. i think redline for the LS1 is 6000, so you should be ok. i would also argue that you are shifting just fine, i drive my auto the same way, have done so for the past four years, and have never had any negitive consequences. rpm has no bearing on hp, that is false. peak power is determeined by your heads, cam, and compression. im not sure exactly what rpm the peak power of the LS1 is at, but someone on here probly does. probly BLkcamaroSS. as far as kickin everyones ass, your probly just a better driver than your friend, and the mustangs are slower.

just like he said, high rpm horsepower is determined by your cam. the ability to handle high rpm is dependant on your valve springs, cam gear, and timing chain, for the most part. a hotter cam will produce power at higher rpm, i don't know squat about ls1's but i believe they are hydraulic rollers like the lt1, probably with respectively tall lobes and long durations. i would say redlining in your car wouldn't be bad at all. but i would also like to add that if you plan to do it very often (as in racing often) that u get a hotter cam, tenser valve springs, roller rockers (1.6 ratio is probably best), heavy duty timing chain, and heavy duty cam gear. i plan on doing all of that to my lt1 and increasing the redline to a reliable 6000 (instead of 5500) while still making power. i'll reiterate one more time the cam makes most of your power redlining is not always good, in fact it is a waste of time if u lack a cam that makes high rpm power. but if you do have a high rpm power making cam, by all means redline it and get all your power

[hot_red_z28]

Originally Posted by z28 boy

I have read many of the threads and responses and I see that some people beleive that alot of red line is not good. I may only be 19 but ever since I was little I thought that more redline ment more power. My mechanic recently told me that that was not always true. When I race my car a 2000 z28 A4 I move the shifter from 1-2 at 5000 bt the tranny doesn't shift till about 6200 is that good or bad? Also I have noticed that people say that max hp is between 5000 to 5800 but when I am driving in traffic and I have to get on the gas, not flooring it just giving it a little bit of gas the tires break loose at about 4000 rpms in OD. What is that about. Is that where my power is? Should I shift earlier? Also I bought my car used and it came with smaller tires than normal. When I thirty punch I start in 1st at about 4000 Rpms and I shift into 2nd and every one I race is still in 1st even the mustangs. I raced my friends 35th anniversary z28 and I got him on the take off he said he heard me spin the tires from the 1-2 shift when he was still in first. I also raced a newer Mustang GT from a dead stop like the camaro and I gave him a car length head start and I passed while still in first hit second and he was still in first. Is it cause of the tires? All cars were automatics. Oh and I whipped the shit out of them both.

First things first, do NOT shift your 4L60E tranny manually. Unless you have a manual valve body shift kit installed, you are going to ruin it. The first thing to go will usually be overdrive and/or reverse, which may be the root of a problem you mentioned a little farther down your post, which you may not have realized is a problem.

Redline is not harmful, as long as you are not holding it there by having the shifter in a lower gear position. In most cases, you should just leave it in D or OD if you plan on going over 100mph, and you will have not problem keeping it off redline. Let the auto shift whereever it wants to, which may range from 5800-6200rpms. Mine was shifting at 6200rpms on the tack, but now that I have a digital tack, I can see that my analog one is actually 200rpms high, so mine shifts right at 6k when at WOT.

The other reason that going over redline can be detrimental is that your valves will start to "float". This is condition in which your valves do not have enough time to close before they are being opened again, thus giving them the appearance of floating in the air. This is bad because the valves may start vibrating around, etc, and can eventually cause one to break or bend. This can be resolved with bigger springs, and or different roller rocker/cam combinations.

Max HP on LS1's varies, but you'd most likely see the most between 5000 and 6000rpms. You mentioned that in OD, at 4000 rpms, the tires break loose. This is the problem I was referring to earlier. You should never be able to get to 4000 rpms in overdrive. Under t/c lockup that would mean you were going well over 130mph... Even under normal non-lockup situations, you'd be going much faster than highway speeds to be at 4000rpms in OD. The problem this suggests is that your overdrive gear is wearing out and thus slipping some to allow your rpms to flash up to that high of an RPM without downshifting, etc...

When racing, the reason you may be shifting more than they do throughout a certain distance has to do with a few things: rear gear ratio, tranny gear ratio, outer tire diameter, etc, so it's entirely possible that you'd be in 2nd while the peopl you were ahead of were still in 1st, so don't worry about that...

Hope this helps some...

[z28 boy]

to hot red z28: thanks for your help I see what you mean. the thing is that what i ment when my tires broke loose in OD is this for example. I am at a stop light and I have to move over to the next lane to make my turn so i get on the gas not flooring it but i do take off pretty quik and the car will spin at the 1-2 shift. I don't mean for it to happen its just that I took off kind of fast. I am not racing or shifting on my own.

[hot_red_z28]

OHHHHH! Okay, I see what you mean bout spinning now. That is completely normal, and should actually make ya happy... That is called torque... That is what our power cars can do...

Even though your selector is in OD, that won't influence how the lower gears shift or how much power there is across the rpm band. If it spins at 4000rpms, that just means it'll spin even more at your peak power rpm which should be a smidgen over 5100rpms. The thing that is nice about our cars, is that we have more power throughout the rpm band than most people have at their cars peak. Just because you car is making say, 330 max hp at 5200rpms, that doesn't mean it isn't making 300hp at 4500 rpms and 250 at 3500rpms, etc... See what I mean?

BTW, those numbers are pulled from my ass, but you get the idea...

[Hypsi87]

Originally Posted by hot_red_z28

OHHHHH! Okay, I see what you mean bout spinning now. That is completely normal, and should actually make ya happy... That is called torque... That is what our power cars can do...

Even though your selector is in OD, that won't influence how the lower gears shift or how much power there is across the rpm band. If it spins at 4000rpms, that just means it'll spin even more at your peak power rpm which should be a smidgen over 5100rpms. The thing that is nice about our cars, is that we have more power throughout the rpm band than most people have at their cars peak. Just because you car is making say, 330 max hp at 5200rpms, that doesn't mean it isn't making 300hp at 4500 rpms and 250 at 3500rpms, etc... See what I mean?

BTW, those numbers are pulled from my ass, but you get the idea...

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... torque....

[z28 boy]

Thanks, I just thought it was kind of wierd that none of my friends can do that.

[cannibalrights]

red line means your rpm's are getting really high. And engines tend to blow more at the redline....

[Chevyracincamaro]

you dont want to shift at redline...you want to shift at peak horsepower, whatever rpm that might be. most smaller engines the peak horsepower is at redline so its all good. on the later model lt-1s the peak horsepower was at 5200, after that the power just drops off...

[hot_red_z28]

I don't understand why you think you would want to immediately shift when you hit your peak horsepower? If you do, you are not utilizing that power at all, cause you clutch in and go back down the rpm band. If you ride through it, it doesn't just drop off like a cliff, the power lasts a little long than that, and then drops off. True it might not be at redline, but you definately don't wanna shift out of your power band when you are right at the optimal spot...