Paved drifting... is it really RACING? really...

[vettemaan]

i can see how in rally/off road racing it is nessisary but itsnt it WAY slower to drift on a road course?

*zips on flame suit*

[Layla's Keeper]

Well, that depends.

In production type racing (any class where stock type suspension and chassis are required) you actually do see controlled four wheel drifting. It's not the exaggerated oversteer type drifts you see in drifting competitions, but the idea of sliding through the corner to maintain momentum is the same.

Generally speaking, the car is aimed a little inside the apex of the corner and the car slides so that it just clips the apex.

It is the fastest way around a course for machines like that.

[Suislide]

well, the idea of drifting in "this" sense ("this" meaning the sense that is mostly discussed on this board) is purely for style.

the idea is to get the car sideways and sustain it for a long period of time, around a large corner or whatever, and link it with more drifts on successive corners. it's like figure skating, the judging is almost purely style, but while that may be so, drifting is still one of the highest evidences of someone's car control ability and takes ALOT more skill then it sounds like.

[FC_Sideways]

Originally Posted by S13_Iketani

well, the idea of drifting in "this" sense ("this" meaning the sense that is mostly discussed on this board) is purely for style.

I have to disagree with this quote. Drifting is not purely style. Drifting can be an advantage in a certain corner. But its not widely used in road racing because its ILLEGAL. I want you to talk to any road racers, if you do this IN PURPOSE during a ROAD RACE (ei, AUTOX). you will be disqualified or kicked out. (I got kicked out of the amateur AUTOX SOLO when i did this once hey, I already lost so what, he he).

Anyways, That's why in Japan, they have to build a whole new league just for drifting (D1).

But With a proper combination of Tires/Spring Rate/ Camber settings/ Drifting will be more in your advantage than grip.

[kfoote]

I'm a club level driving instructor, hold an SCCA National Competition license, and have track time at virtually every road course in the northeast, and have never encountered a situation where D1-style drifting is faster than keeping the car pointed in the direction it's travelling. There is no rule in any rule book I have read against drifting, and the reason people don't "drift" is that it is slower than not drifting. Genreally, what happens is the rear tires heat up to above their ideal operating temperature and lose grip. Less grip = lower cornering speed = lower entry speed on the straight = slower lap time.

Originally Posted by Layla's Keeper

In production type racing (any class where stock type suspension and chassis are required) you actually do see controlled four wheel drifting. It's not the exaggerated oversteer type drifts you see in drifting competitions, but the idea of sliding through the corner to maintain momentum is the same.

Generally speaking, the car is aimed a little inside the apex of the corner and the car slides so that it just clips the apex.

It is the fastest way around a course for machines like that.

In general, this is pretty accurate. I do not know of any cars where "drifting" is faster, and have only seen two drivers that I would consider fast drive regularly with the back end hung out (and I'm takling inches here, not feet), and both of those are in FWD cars where the rear tires don't really do anything aside from keeping the trunk from dragging on the ground. D1-style drifting is slow, plain and simple.

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by FC_Sideways

I have to disagree with this quote. Drifting is not purely style. Drifting can be an advantage in a certain corner. But its not widely used in road racing because its ILLEGAL. I want you to talk to any road racers, if you do this IN PURPOSE during a ROAD RACE (ei, AUTOX). you will be disqualified or kicked out. (I got kicked out of the amateur AUTOX SOLO when i did this once hey, I already lost so what, he he).

Anyways, That's why in Japan, they have to build a whole new league just for drifting (D1).

But With a proper combination of Tires/Spring Rate/ Camber settings/ Drifting will be more in your advantage than grip.

as layla and kfoote only in certain cases and even then only minuscule amounts of drifts can ma you fater....D1 type drifts are only for style

you probably got kiked out of that autox even because they cosidered your drifting unsafe to the course workers or yourself

[FC_Sideways]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

as layla and kfoote only in certain cases and even then only minuscule amounts of drifts can ma you fater....D1 type drifts are only for style

you probably got kiked out of that autox even because they cosidered your drifting unsafe to the course workers or yourself

Yeah, that's what the guy said! he he. They said it was dangerous for me to purposely drift my car he he.. love it!

[flylwsi]

gymkhana, in japan, requires low-speed drifting for some corners, and even 360s at times. so there's a place.
but you'd be hard pressed to find a form of racing where "sliding" around a corner is not done. sometimes it's not a choice.

keep in mind that drifting as a form of racing (D1GP) is judged in the same way as ice skating, but judges, not by stop watches.
so it's a motorsport, but not necessarily racing...

[vettemaan]

thanks for not flaming me just wondering what the drift fans thought

[Soyo]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

as layla and kfoote only in certain cases and even then only minuscule amounts of drifts can ma you fater....D1 type drifts are only for style

you probably got kiked out of that autox even because they cosidered your drifting unsafe to the course workers or yourself

you've obviously never seen an option video, those guys go flying around just about everycorner

and in incases such as S-curves drifting would be fast and on sharp corners, on wide corners it would probably be slower because just going around normal you could get on the throttle harder faster

[fd3s93]

Less grip = lower cornering speed = lower entry speed on the straight = slower lap time

this may be true but on a moutain its a diff ball park

[LjasonL]

First, let me say that my using the word "drifting" in this post, I'm referring to D1 style drifting, not rotating the car a few minor degrees like referred to by Octagon.

Originally Posted by fd3s93

Less grip = lower cornering speed = lower entry speed on the straight = slower lap time

this may be true but on a moutain its a diff ball park

No it's not. Drifting = wasted momentum. Maintaining traction and keeping your momentum through the corner is always faster than wasting your time and momentum sliding the back end around. Forget what you've seen on Initial D, in real life drifting is for show.

Let me share my auto-x story. One time I was making my run and for some reason the back end just would not stick down, and I ended up drifting almost every corner. Let me tell you, it felt FAST. My 1st run I followed nice smooth racing lines and was placed pretty well in the pack. Not too high, but high enough to make me happy. Well this lap felt so fast I thought I was going to own everyone out there, and they were just gonna call the season short and give me the trophy now . Check the time board and to my surprise I was more than 6 full seconds slower than the 1st "smooth" lap. 6+ seconds on a 50 second auto-x course is an eternity.

Moral of the story - Drifting is fun, a rush, exciting, and slow

Originally Posted by FC_Sideways

Yeah, that's what the guy said! he he. They said it was dangerous for me to purposely drift my car he he.. love it!

Yeah, I just love endangering other people

[Boss San]

Downhill is the only thing that could be called an actual "race." Sure it's a bit slower than a grip race, but it is still highly competitive between drivers.

[flylwsi]

if by downhill, you mean the togue, it comes down to the same thing.
a slight drift around a hairpin is quicker than grip, but not a full blown drift (d1 style).

this is just the same thing, over and over.

drifting is not a speed/time sport. never has been.

the idea of mild drifts, on mountain roads or wherever, is the same as octagon said, mild.
that's it.

[Boss San]

maybe. but why bother doing just one thing when you can do it all. D1 is a doughnut show, and touge is more hair raising. learn them all, it'll be funner and you'll turn out a better driver.
they're all just pieces of a bigger pie.
it's a motorsport with many different elements that nobody can seem to agree on.