Traction for gst

[1qwik4]

I have done searches on multiple sites on this and came up with vague solutions. Obviously I am having problems hooking with my gst and am looking for ways for improved traction. I know I am not going to 60' like an awd but I need something better than stock. I've been looking at shocks, spring and coil over setups but have been getting mixed reviews. I read that KYB AGX'x don't fit right on the 2G eclipse's (length problems). Also, spring height might effect exhaust systems (mine is apexi n1) b/c of height changes. I know I need to stiffen my rear suspension to assist in my FWD quest for traction. Does anyone know of a good proven setup for a 2G eclipse for drag racing? Thanks in advance.

[97dsmeclipse]

still trying to figure this out my self, the only way i can kept some traction on the drag is with drag slics, i got eibach springs on it, my car is lowerd 2" in front and 1" in back, but i like the way it looks alot

[EclipseRST]

do you have an LSD? i also know people using the stock suspension in the rear and puting either coilovers or lowering springs in the front (more people i know use the coilovers cause you can set them at different hights) making the front a lot lower puting more of the weight forward...now with coilovers you can put the front as low as the coils will let you for the track then when you are done adjust them back to the hight you like and drive home! also slicks are very helpful in traction!

[BoostedSpyder]

i think 95 gsxracer said that one of the guy's on his POS team uses agx's on their stiffest setting on the rear and it works really well. the key is to reduce the positive pitch motion caused by forward acceleration and keep the weight on the front wheels. polyurothane [sp?] bushings will also help reduce unwanted loss of energy in the suspension. tires are most important, so start with that. coilovers are obliviously the best option, higher end ones [tein flex, for example] can adjust dampening as well as ride height. lastly there is the quaife Limited Slip Differential >http://www.roadraceengineering.com/quaife.htm< click the link for a full idae on that... and the most important detail is the driver and his experience, so keep practicing...

[1qwik4]

BoostedSpyder, I read that same thing from 95gsxRacer and I want to say that those shocks were on a 1g dsm. They say that agx's are the wrong length for the 2g dsm's. I will probably go with ground control coil overs since they are a lot cheaper in price then Tein. Should have just bought a gsx in hindsight. I seen a LSD from www.phantomgrip.com for about $235 on ebay. Wondering if I should be the guinnea pig. Did any of the gst's come with a LSD or not? Has anyone heard of phantomgrip?

[EclipseRST]

i believe that is what fourG63 97gst uses...

[diviniti]

Suspension, motor mounts, and tires. Are all keys in grabbing some pavement with a FWD.

Suspension, just do some research, on peoples setups, ask how they like it, if it improved their times at all.. Seems like alot of people are already helping ya with that here..

Motor mounts, Solid or urethane mounts help some. But remember when gonig solid, you will feel a heck of alot more vibration in the car.

Tires, of course slicks are the best, but if your strapped, or dont really want to run slicks or DOT legal's. Try running different pressure in your street tires. Around 22 psi front, and 44 psi rear. It will help you hook up a tad better.

Another option that would help is a dual stage boost controller.
Low setting for launch, high setting for when you are hooked up.

[kjewer1]

Yes, Chad used to own a FWD. Until he smartened up and parted it out Putting AGXs on the rear set to full stiff made a world of difference on the street. I think his best 60' was 2.1 and I believe that was on street tires. Not too bad.

Many poeple have used the phantom grip, you certainly wont be the guinnea pig Search on tuners and talk, you're bound to find some reviews there.

I think raising the back end and/or lowering the front will help significantly, though I have never tried it, nor any of my friends...

It is also true you dont really want to use AGXs on 2Gs, since they are an inch longer than stock. 2Gs are already limited in the suspension travel department. Thats why upper mounts like the ones from GC that reolocate the shock upward 1" can really improve handling at the limit.

[BoostedSpyder]

a guy on another site said that Ground Control coilovers ride like shit, so be careful. my mechanic recomended a Eibach Pro/Tokiko adjustable setup, stiff in the rear, and he has alot of experience with 2g dsm's. i'm going to get a Tein Flex w/ EDFC in a month or 2, but that's just me...

[kjewer1]

No offense, but saying that GCs (or any other coil over setup) rides like shit will get you an ass kicking in my house Here is a snippit of what happened to the last guy that made such comments:

Are we talking about ride comfort (for pussies) or performance? Lets not confuse the two. A nicer ride is a softer spring 99.9% of the time. Try a road race setup with 500-600 pound springs and see how it rides, no matter if its sleeves or "true" coilovers. Its not comfy. But it will get you up on 3 wheels. The setups that people say ride so nice will land them right in the slower run groups. I use GCs for the last two years, and I just now need to replace my rear shocks. I think thats pretty damn good for 450/325 pound linear rate springs. Also, find me one person with that "matched set" getting 1.5 second sixty foot times. I've seen all the garbage coil over sleeves out there, and I've seen the 99% of people who buy them and dont choose the correct spring rate (or any at all). I've been to the tracks (drag, roadrace, autox) and have seen what works and what doesnt. I've driven cars with all types of suspension setups. And I can post here until I'm blue in the face and still not get anywhere on this topic... :?

Of all the cars you rode in that rode "like dog crap" how did the owner choose his spring rates? What was the car setup to do? (sit in dairy queen parking lot most likely) Did the spring rates match the weight front/rear if the car relative to its intended use? Relative to the valving of the chosen shock? How was the shock chosen? Was it adjustable, static, custom valving? Was there a clear understanding of the wheel/shock ratio and how it affects your spring rate/shock valving choice? I doubt ANY of this was ever considered for one second, and the owner didnt specify what rates, and went with whatever it "comes with." There is no doubt in my mind that it rode like dog crap either

I did some very simple resaerch, and used some even simpler math, to determine that 450/325 spring rates would work well at my weight, with Illuminas, relocated upper mounts, and for a daily driven mostly drag (racing) car. Its softer than I would like for autox or road race, but it rides well and I get good short times. The rear is just stiff enough relative to the front to counter the built in understeer the factory setup provides, and make the car more nuetral, even if a bit soft. The point is that after spending a couple days looking into this stuff, I have a setup that was short money, rides well, handles very well, and launches with the fastest AWD DSMs in the world. And you dont hear me bitching about any of it, even after 2 long hard years and 70k miles.

So your sleeves destroyed your shocks. What sleeves were they? What shocks were they? What was the mode of failure? Did they "blow out" because they were improperly matched to the spring rate? Car was set too low for the given shocks' body length without relocating the upper mounts? Was the body of the shcok damaged because the sleeve was loose on the shock?

The tociko set rides better. How so? What are the spring rates? Shock valving? Weight and balance of the car? Is it setup for good 60 foot times or cornering? How does a set that "rides better" constitute a better option for someone?

Not trying to pick on anyone here, just illustrate a very simple point. People toss around suspension parts and names without quantifying ANY of it. The questions I asked above are things people need to consider when looking at suspension parts, and I see NONE of these things discussed on any of these forums, except for the performance oriented ones. Where people actualy race and suspension is about winning or losing, not how low you go with a good ride quality.

Maybe this post doesnt belong on this website at all, who knows. I dont want to offend anyone, jsut raise the important questions.

So the cliff notes version is is the brand ground control has nothing to do with how it "rides" or how it performs. They use very high quality Eibach standard diameter race springs. The spring rates chosen and the dampers chosen will affect the ride and performance, and 99% of the time people dont make the effort to chose the right set. Be careful what you believe from people on the internet, and trust mechanics even less. If that guy has any further questions, he's welcome to take a ride in a 400 whp, 1.5 second short time, GC equiped car to judge how it rides

[95_GSX]

class dismissed. Kevin you truly are a DSM God. that is a great post, it clears up my suspension questions. thanks for the knowledge.

[kjewer1]

Trust me, I'm no DSM God, I've just been raked over the DSM coals more than a few times Others still know way more than me.

Turbo/motor/tuning is more my strong point than suspension, but I coul go on for pages about suspension. If I find the time I will do a writeup similar to the one I did on knock. The post above is specific in repsonse to a retarded post I came across on a forum that will remain nameless, and doesnt really include all of the relavant information...

[95_GSX]

but it tells the ignorant what they need to research when building a suspension set up for their cars. i would love to see you do a write up for suspension, but it is such a huge topic with so many options for different situations it would be a large undertaking, that i am sure would be appreciated by all that would read it.

on another note, you are close enough to a God for me. there isn't anyone in the wyoming area that i know of that races a dsm seriously, though i havn't made it to the track in a while, and there isnt anybody that knows as much as you out here for me to be able to talk with about what i want my car to do. for these reasons and many more, this is why you are a DSM God to me. thanks for answering and continue to answer all of our question here at AF.

[EclipseRST]

i'll second that! although i dont live in wyoming... thanks for everything!

[kjewer1]

As always, I'm glad you guys find my ramblings useful. Thanks for the kind words. I did a small writeup on suspension, just posted it. Should be enough to get people asking the right questions at least.