Here comes the draft!

[T4 Primera]

Originally Posted by thegladhatter

So....what the heck do YOU think they are doing there?? Somebody elses duty??

Not what I meant. I meant more along the lines of:

......UPHOLD the CONSTITUTION.........to DEFEND against all ENEMIES...both FOREIGN and DOMESTIC.......

or whatever else you may or may not PERSONALLY believe in - if you do indeed believe in anything.

Does it equate with the intent/motives/ethics of what is actually going on?

That's what I meant.


As to what I personally think they are doing there, posting that here would detract from this thread - read my other posts if you want to know but the quote's in my thread should give you a hint.

[thegladhatter]

There is certainly no need to be a dick!

So many are throwing a fit that more wasn't done BEFORE 9/11! Those same morons are throwing a fit that we are doing things NOW to PREVENT ANOTHER 9/11!

......UPHOLD the CONSTITUTION.........to DEFEND against all ENEMIES...both FOREIGN and DOMESTIC.......

I think that about sums it up. THAT IS EVERYONE'S duty! Whining by limpwristed liberals never stopped anybody from being aggressive toward the USA!

[T4 Primera]

Originally Posted by thegladhatter

There is certainly no need to be a dick!

I agree wholeheartedly.

Originally Posted by thegladhatter

So many are throwing a fit that more wasn't done BEFORE 9/11! Those same morons are throwing a fit that we are doing things NOW to PREVENT ANOTHER 9/11!

Is that what you believe is going on? - prevention of another 911? You believe Iraq was responsible? You believe that the changes brought about by the Patriot Acts will make you safe?

See the Benjamin Franklin quote in my sig.

I believe that what is being done now is more of what created the motive for 911 in the first place. But that's off-topic and would kill this thread as it has so many others. The topic here is the draft.

Originally Posted by thegladhatter

I think that about sums it up. THAT IS EVERYONE'S duty!

If people see that as their duty then it's quite simple isn't it. The question is whether waging war in Iraq, the wider Middle East and the defence of Isreal has anything to do with defending the constitution and US soil.

Originally Posted by thegladhatter

Whining by limpwristed liberals never stopped anybody from being aggressive toward the USA!

Neither does maintaining military bases in foreign countries where they are unwelcome, interfering in the politics of sovereign nations and providing clandestine support for the subversion of foreign governments.

[thegladhatter]

Originally Posted by T4 Primera

You believe Iraq was responsible? You believe that the changes brought about by the Patriot Acts will make you safe?

I NEVER said Iraq was responsible for 9/11, but I believe (and any [inormal[/i] person agrees) that they had designs on something similar. What people of their ilk would love is for us to sit idly on our asses and let them do us in the same way that UBL did on 9/11. If we ignore their idiocy then we are asking them to knock down a few more WTCs!

[Cbass]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

Desertion? You must be dazed from the Flames elimination of the Canucks.

Now that was a cheapshot

You just better hope that the Wings can do a better job against Kiprusoff than the Canucks could... That guy isn't human!

Don't worry Yogs, the Canadian boys will show them how to play hockey

[T4 Primera]

Originally Posted by thegladhatter

I NEVER said Iraq was responsible for 9/11, but I believe (and any [inormal[/i] person agrees) that they had designs on something similar. What people of their ilk would love is for us to sit idly on our asses and let them do us in the same way that UBL did on 9/11. If we ignore their idiocy then we are asking them to knock down a few more WTCs!

If that is your belief then you are just the man for the job. No internal conflicts for you - as your actions will agree with your belief.

I disagree with your belief - I must be one of that not-normal idiot ilk. I can't make you believe otherwise - so I'll post the following link and leave it at that.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/050803H.shtml

[carrrnuttt]

I really can't understand you Bush guys. (I won't demean the word "conservative" by calling you guys that.)

First, it was denial, saying that the draft talk is all that - talk, designed to bring Bush's campaign down.

Now that it's becoming more and more real, the draft is now a good, and honorable thing. So, if the draft was so good, how was the mere talk of it supposed to bring down Bush? Does that make sense?

Some of you guys make about as much sense as one of Bush's speech...and no, that wasn't compliment, however you twist it.

[justacruiser]

Originally Posted by T4 Primera

Is that what you believe is going on? - prevention of another 911?
I believe that what is being done now is more of what created the motive for 911 in the first place. But that's off-topic and would kill this thread as it has so many others. The topic here is the draft.

If the fatal fighting is kept over there, where blind ignorance and propaganda breed terrorists, then by all means yes, this is the right thing to do.

Originally Posted by T4 Primera

If people see that as their duty then it's quite simple isn't it. The question is whether waging war in Iraq, the wider Middle East and the defence of Isreal has anything to do with defending the constitution and US soil.

The defence of Isreal is an aid in this situation. They've been dealing with these people for centuries, why not take their advice in dealing with them? In return, give Isreal a little help and learn from them in the process. As I said, keep the fighting over there, not here on U.S. soil.

Originally Posted by T4 Primera

Neither does maintaining military bases in foreign countries where they are unwelcome, interfering in the politics of sovereign nations and providing clandestine support for the subversion of foreign governments.

Oh, are you referring to the bases in Japan and Germany which are there because of surrender terms from WW2, or perhaps Britain who leased us land and permitted bases on that land in return for supplies in WW2? They have no one to blame but themselves for U.S. bases being on their land.

[justacruiser]

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

I really can't understand you Bush guys. (I won't demean the word "conservative" by calling you guys that.)

First, it was denial, saying that the draft talk is all that - talk, designed to bring Bush's campaign down.

Now that it's becoming more and more real, the draft is now a good, and honorable thing. So, if the draft was so good, how was the mere talk of it supposed to bring down Bush? Does that make sense?

Some of you guys make about as much sense as one of Bush's speech...and no, that wasn't compliment, however you twist it.

Since when is it honorable or good? The draft sucks ass if you get picked and I'd hate for it to start up just like anyone else would, (except women), because I have a life and I'd rather not drop everything to go get shot at. However, as a U.S. male citizen, in exchange for living here and enjoying the perks available, at 18 you must sign the selective service card. I don't mind it, it's a good thing to have in time of emergency.

Is the draft talk a political ploy by the democrats? I think it is, like I said, it's making a huge stir, (mostly against bush), and it's not likely to be implemented. Yet it just pops up right when John Kerry does and election day is looming. It's just too much 'coincidence' to be legit and not bullshit.

[carrrnuttt]

Originally Posted by justacruiser

Is the draft talk a political ploy by the democrats? I think it is, like I said, it's making a huge stir, (mostly against bush), and it's not likely to be implemented. Yet it just pops up right when John Kerry does and election day is looming. It's just too much 'coincidence' to be legit and not bullshit.

LOL

It was REALLY hard to not criticize your intelligence, and your grasp of American reality with that last post, considering it was a senior Republican who is pushing for the draft.

Why don't you browse through here: http://capwiz.com/usatoday/bio/letterslist/?id=365

...and read some letters from around the country, expressing anger at even the suggestion of a draft for such a corrupt "war".

The letter is addressed to Senator Chuck Hagel, a Nebraska Republican.

Political shooting by Democrats, maybe, but it was a Republican who put the bullets in that gun, son.

[T4 Primera]

Originally Posted by justacruiser

If the fatal fighting is kept over there, where blind ignorance and propaganda breed terrorists, then by all means yes, this is the right thing to do.

It is the fighting "over there" that motivates some to "bring it home" to the US. If your dog shits in someone elses back yard, don't be surprised if it gets thrown over the fence into yours.

Originally Posted by justacruiser

The defence of Isreal is an aid in this situation. They've been dealing with these people for centuries, why not take their advice in dealing with them? In return, give Isreal a little help and learn from them in the process. As I said, keep the fighting over there, not here on U.S. soil.

Centuries? Seems things were quite civil between the Arabs and Jews in that part of the world until people like Ben Gurion came along. As far as learning to use tactics of Mossad and the IDF, may God have mercy on your soul. As far as the Arabs are concerned, it is enough that the US funds the activities of Mossad and the IDF.

Originally Posted by justacruiser

Oh, are you referring to the bases in Japan and Germany which are there because of surrender terms from WW2, or perhaps Britain who leased us land and permitted bases on that land in return for supplies in WW2? They have no one to blame but themselves for U.S. bases being on their land.

Yes, I refer to all of them. All 700+ of them infecting the globe.
Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire (Second Edition)

Where's that draft coming from??

[lazysmurff]

I'd like to comment on something justacruiser said, something that i hear alot, and frankly, i think its time we looked in the mirror. allow me to clarify

"over there, where blind ignorance and propoganda breed terrorists" was a statment made by said member

I'd like to point something out. our government attacked, took over, and has since occupied two countries in less than three years because those countries were, and i quote "rouge nations with weapons of mass destruction and a leader crazy enough to use them"

i'll remind the readers of this thread that the United States produces more chemical and biological weapons than any other nation, has larger stockpiles of nuclear weapons than any other nation, and on top of things has a larger military than any other nation. (note, the united states possesses weapons of mass destruction)

The united states went against the UN and the greater part of the worlds will, and unilaterally (read: rougely) attacked a country that would not have been able to repell an invasion by the girl scouts. The united States, in it "with us or against us" policy, made itself a rouge nation.

The pentagon, with assistance from donald rumsfield and the CIA began developing what is called a "tactical nuke" or a "bunker buster nuke" specifically for the purpose of fighting in Iraq, and the pentagon actually, very seriously considered the use of these tactical nukes in Iraq. The US is also the only nation to ever drop a nuclear weapon on an enemy.

so please note, we as a nation fit the very profile of what we claim to be fighting. To simply dismiss terrorism as a problem of "those people over there" is to be ridiculously ignorant. violence is not something that America is seeking to eliminate in the world, it is something America propigates.

lets not forget that the american military could be clasified as the largest terrorist organization in the world.

lets also not forget that the US funded and currently funds known terrorist organization. must i remind you who gave osama bin laden all his weapons and training?

take a look in the mirror son.

[Cbass]

Originally Posted by thegladhatter

I NEVER said Iraq was responsible for 9/11, but I believe (and any [inormal[/i] person agrees) that they had designs on something similar.

So you mean to say that if someone doesn't believe that Iraq was planning an attack on the US similar to the attacks on 9/11, that they aren't normal?

The real definition of "normal" is something that adheres to the "norm", being either the mean or the median, depending on who's definition you use.

You think that the majority of the people in the world believe that Iraq was going to attack the US in a massive terrorist action? I certainly don't, and I think you'll be hard pressed to find many people who will agree with you, unless you're constantly surrounded by brainwashed right wingers... Say, are you military?

Originally Posted by thegladhatter

What people of their ilk would love is for us to sit idly on our asses and let them do us in the same way that UBL did on 9/11. If we ignore their idiocy then we are asking them to knock down a few more WTCs!

Before you can support a statement like that, you're going to have to examine WHY the attacks on 9/11 happened. Look for the root cause of the action, and teh sentiment against the US. If you're going to believe they did it because they hate the US, that's a start. Now try to figure out WHY they hate the US. What has the US done that has caused them to feel this way?

If you're going to retort that they did it because they believed it would get them into heaven, or that they are simply jealous of the US, don't waste your breath.

[Cbass]

Originally Posted by lazysmurff

I'd like to comment on something justacruiser said, something that i hear alot, and frankly, i think its time we looked in the mirror. allow me to clarify

"over there, where blind ignorance and propoganda breed terrorists" was a statment made by said member

I'd like to point something out. our government attacked, took over, and has since occupied two countries in less than three years because those countries were, and i quote "rouge nations with weapons of mass destruction and a leader crazy enough to use them"

i'll remind the readers of this thread that the United States produces more chemical and biological weapons than any other nation, has larger stockpiles of nuclear weapons than any other nation, and on top of things has a larger military than any other nation. (note, the united states possesses weapons of mass destruction)

The united states went against the UN and the greater part of the worlds will, and unilaterally (read: rougely) attacked a country that would not have been able to repell an invasion by the girl scouts. The united States, in it "with us or against us" policy, made itself a rouge nation.

The pentagon, with assistance from donald rumsfield and the CIA began developing what is called a "tactical nuke" or a "bunker buster nuke" specifically for the purpose of fighting in Iraq, and the pentagon actually, very seriously considered the use of these tactical nukes in Iraq. The US is also the only nation to ever drop a nuclear weapon on an enemy.

so please note, we as a nation fit the very profile of what we claim to be fighting. To simply dismiss terrorism as a problem of "those people over there" is to be ridiculously ignorant. violence is not something that America is seeking to eliminate in the world, it is something America propigates.

lets not forget that the american military could be clasified as the largest terrorist organization in the world.

lets also not forget that the US funded and currently funds known terrorist organization. must i remind you who gave osama bin laden all his weapons and training?

take a look in the mirror son.

But I think you've overlooked one key fact... The US are the good guys! The cowboys, the sherriff, the guys saving the world from communism! The US can do no wrong, and obviously anyone who the US doesn't like must be the bad guys, the indians, the bank robbers, the commies, oh and now, the terrorists.

The US has always made a policy of labeling it's enemies to make war more palatable for the American people.

[Cbass]

Originally Posted by justacruiser

If the fatal fighting is kept over there, where blind ignorance and propaganda breed terrorists, then by all means yes, this is the right thing to do.

As opposed to the US, where blind ignorance and propaganda breed voters, and greed and influecne breed politicians who do the exact same things as terrorists.

Originally Posted by justacruiser

The defence of Isreal is an aid in this situation. They've been dealing with these people for centuries, why not take their advice in dealing with them? In return, give Isreal a little help and learn from them in the process. As I said, keep the fighting over there, not here on U.S. soil.

That's a ludicrous statement. All that supporting Israel has ever garnered the US is the animosity of a very large portion of the worlds population.

Israel has never given the US anything, except for continual embarrassment on the internation stage.