2000 Windstar needs some help

[mark_gober]

Well that must of been some level of curiosity that you had.

You posted a question I wante to clarify for you. You asked about the valve stem seals and if a compression test would narrow it down for you. It wont. The valve stem seals sit at the very top of the valve stem, under the spring. They are rubber and simply designed to prevent oil from going down the valve stem, past the valve guide (which is metal) and into the cylinder.

A compression test will tell you about the condition of the cylinder itself. A perfectly good, brand new engine will show high compression (numbers are mfr./engine specific). As an engine wears, it might experience higher wear in a particular cylinder vs. the others (through design flaw or mechanical failure) In that cylinder, the walls could get scuffed up or gouged, the rings could begin to fail or the valves could get gunked up and not completely close. All of these (and other things) will prevent the cylinder from reaching maximum compression. The better your compression, the more efficient the engine, the more complete the burn, etc. The one thing it won't show you is whats happening above where the valve closes off.

You seem to have a good idea of how to proceed with the compression test. I'll give you one caveat that I recently experienced. Most compression testers that I've ever used are basically rubber hoses that have a spark plug thread on one end and what looks like an air compressor fitting on the other. The air compressor fitting plugs into the bottom of the gauge and the spark plug part screws into the engine. The hose part is normally one solid piece....no rotation along its length. Additionally there is a schrader valve that allows you to release the compression after you've cranked the engine and stopped. There are Orings at the spark plug end so you get a good snug seal. I had to borrow one from the parts store because I had to cut my hose several years ago in an emergency situation. I borrowed one from Autozone and it was absolutely, completely worthless.

On the spark plug end, just before the spark plug threaded part, there was a junction between the hose and the threaded part that rotated. So you basically rotate the hose it threads into the engine. All that worked fine until you reached the Oring. This is the critical part. You need to tighten a little bit so that the Oring expands and seals the hole. Well on this one, the threaded part was allowed to rotate seperately from the hose and I COULD NOT snug it down. So, I'd crank down as much as I could before the hose rotated and I'd crank the engine. I was unable to expand the Oring out enough and the compressed air would escape around the Oring, making a ridiculous sounding high pitched whistle. I promptly returned it and informed them that they should just throw that in the trash and never rent it again. All that is to say, check the tool that you get and make sure that it doesn't rotate at the threaded end. It makes it difficult.

One final thing, if I were you, I'd start on the rear of the engine. Those are the hardest ones to get to and I prefer to start with those and move toward the easier ones.

Good luck.

Mark

[hatethewindstar]

run a vacuum test on it. disconnect the power brake vacuum line and test it on that port .... I still say you have a broken valve spring and the apparent spark knock/detonation you hear is a rocker rattling.

My 2000 also had oil soaked plug threads and misses detected in various cylinders and rear bank lean condition.

do a vacuum test !!!!!!! when my #2 exhaust valve spring was broken that plug was heavily fouled and all other plugs were clean but still had oil on all threads. Mine also had starting issues which included extended cranking periods before it started. I did a thread read it.

Mine is still running excellent and have put about 750 miles on it since changing the valve spring.

[hocky88]

Ok guys I am gearing up for my next round of work on my Windstar. I replaced the PCV with a new motorcraft PCV. The grommet fit is not so tight so I guess I should replace that as well.

I picked up the oil stem seals on ebay for$20 shipped and also bought 4 new injectors today on ebay for 45 delivered. As soon as I get the parts I plan to install both at the same time. Since I have the lean code P0171 for bank 1 along with P0302 misfire code, I am figuring that there is a good chance that I have a blocked fuel injector. I was going to remove, soak and clean the injectors but when I found new ones for $10 each I figured I may as well just replace all injectors on bank 1. So new seals, bank 1 injectors, and I'll give it an oil change and install Autolite app105's and see what happens. I am not sure which oil to put in 5W30? synthetic?

Before any of the above, I will complete a compression test and a vacuum test. I may do these tests this weekend as I doubt that I will have the new parts. For the compression test I will do both a dry and wet test and record the values back here. I have read how to do this but this will be my first compression test. For the vacuum test, I will hook a gauge up to the booster vacuum line and check. Never did this before either. If anyone has some specific ways to perform either of these tests please expand for me.

I think the new injectors will show immediate results and hopefully, the seals will provide some benefit to the oil loss.

How about top side combustion chamber cleaning. I have been pulling several different cylinder (2, 3 & 5) plugs with some nasty gunk over the last few months; I can only imagine what the valves and pistons/rings must look like. Any good cleaning ideas? Will the compression test results tell whether cleaning may be necessary? Is anyone expecting bad compression numbers?

[hocky88]

Began work today and thought I would post results on the vacuum test to gather some feedback. After this post, I am going to begin my compression testing. I connected the gauge at the power brake connection on the firewall. I started the van cold and the vacuum gauage quickly went to 16 "Hg. After 30 seconds or so as the engine warmed, the vacuum increased to ~18"Hg. I wasn't exactly sure how to test or what else to look for so I just started revving the engine to watch the response of the gauge. On each quick rev cycle the vacuum would drop off initially to perhaps 5"Hg or close to 0 psi then quickly recover to above above 20" momentarily on deceleration then back to about 18" Hg as the rpm's stabilized. Repeated that a few times with the same result. Then I revved the motor and held the engine rpm steady at a higher rpm. Sometimes there was a modest increase to perhaps 18.5 or 19"Hg but then you could feel the misfire/rough running condition begin and the vacuum would drop off below 15" Hg and sometimes even closer to 10" Hg. Then the misfire would stop and the vacumm would recover back to about 18.5"Hg. This happened several times then I stopped. Hopefully, for you guys that know much more about this testing than me, I provided enough info to lend some insight to my problem. Well, onward to compression testing. Any feedback is appreciated. I'll post back in a while with more results. Planning on doing a dry and wet compression test on all of the cylinders.

[hatethewindstar]

Originally Posted by hocky88

Began work today and thought I would post results on the vacuum test to gather some feedback. After this post, I am going to begin my compression testing. I connected the gauge at the power brake connection on the firewall. I started the van cold and the vacuum gauage quickly went to 16 "Hg. After 30 seconds or so as the engine warmed, the vacuum increased to ~18"Hg. I wasn't exactly sure how to test or what else to look for so I just started revving the engine to watch the response of the gauge. On each quick rev cycle the vacuum would drop off initially to perhaps 5"Hg or close to 0 psi then quickly recover to above above 20" momentarily on deceleration then back to about 18" Hg as the rpm's stabilized. Repeated that a few times with the same result. Then I revved the motor and held the engine rpm steady at a higher rpm. Sometimes there was a modest increase to perhaps 18.5 or 19"Hg but then you could feel the misfire/rough running condition begin and the vacuum would drop off below 15" Hg and sometimes even closer to 10" Hg. Then the misfire would stop and the vacumm would recover back to about 18.5"Hg. This happened several times then I stopped. Hopefully, for you guys that know much more about this testing than me, I provided enough info to lend some insight to my problem. Well, onward to compression testing. Any feedback is appreciated. I'll post back in a while with more results. Planning on doing a dry and wet compression test on all of the cylinders.

When mine was on the vacuum gauge test the needle fluctuated very fast between 5 & 10 inches of vacuum but never could build more then 10. Doubt you would have those high readings with a engine with a compression issue as well. As long as the gauge is steady you don't have compression or valve issues.

is the mount for your coil pack rusty?

[hocky88]

Yea it does look pretty rusty. I recently had a coolant leak from that tube that goes across the motor (front to back). Well back near where the coil pack is located is where the leak was, so I am sure the coolant was spraying on the coil for awhile before I figured out where the leak was. I will pull it off today and clean the connections. I will continue on with the compression test. I wish I had the new fuel injectors that I bouoght from ebay because I think that could be helpful to the cylinder 2 misfire. Hey, for the vacuum test, upon quick revving it sure does make sounds like sucking a large gulp of air and tracks with the complete loss of vacuum on acceleration. Is that typical? And thanks for the quick post!

[hatethewindstar]

Originally Posted by hocky88

Yea it does look pretty rusty. I recently had a coolant leak from that tube that goes across the motor (front to back). Well back near where the coil pack is located is where the leak was, so I am sure the coolant was spraying on the coil for awhile before I figured out where the leak was. I will pull it off today and clean the connections. I will continue on with the compression test. I wish I had the new fuel injectors that I bouoght from ebay because I think that could be helpful to the cylinder 2 misfire. Hey, for the vacuum test, upon quick revving it sure does make sounds like sucking a large gulp of air and tracks with the complete loss of vacuum on acceleration. Is that typical? And thanks for the quick post!

A plugged injector would show as a dead miss on vacuum. You have good vacuum readings, try this as well plug off all vacuum ports and see how it does. Sand down the coil pack mount so it has a good ground. switch #2 plug wire on coil pack to the tower across from it and see if the missfire moves to a different cylinder.

When I bought my new injectors the guy had said he has seen plenty of them fail and I noticed on mine the locking clips for the injectors electrical connector were broken. See if the connector to the #2 injector is tight.

[hocky88]

Here are my compression readings, all dry. I removed the 15 amp fuse to the fuel pump and all spark plug wires to the coil pack. I left all plugs in tack and connnected the compression gauge to each plug and turned the car over for about 5-10 seconds. Repeated and documented the averages.

#1...175 psi
#2...175 psi
#3...152 psi
#4...175 psi
#5...160 psi
#6...135 psi

I was not happy with the 135 psi on cylinder#6. At least it is easy to get back that one and I may recheck and maybe try putting something oil in there and checking again.

I pulled the coil pack and checked for rust underneath, etc. It looked decent. I cleaned it with some steel wool and put it back together.

Of course, now it won't start so I may have run the battery too low. I double checked my wires on the coil - from the front of the car down the right side 3-2-1 and down the left side of the coil beginning with the front 4-6-5. I am pretty sure that is right. I will need to move it later tonight to jump for a restart.

The plugs looked ok with the exception of the #4 plug was pretty covered with oil. I just cleaned it a little witha rag and put it back. I am going to do the stem seals real soon and I will change all the plugs to new plugs at that time. I think all of the plugs right now are the AP105's

[wiswind]

If you still have access to the injectors, since you suspected #2 injector, you could move it to one of the front bank cylinders.
If the #2 problem moves with the injector, you know you have a bad injector, and you can then change it more easily because it is in the front bank, and not in the middle in the back bank.

[hocky88]

I got back to work on my van today. My plan was to change out the rear 3 injectors since I was able to pick them up for only $10 each on ebay. I removed the intake, etc. to get some room to see what I was doing and to my surprise I found the #2 injector was not electrically plugged in! As i inspected several other injectors. as I pressed the clips to disconnect, the clip would simply break off! Unbelieveable! So now all but maybe 1 injector is seated in place but with no locking clip. I may end up trying to secure with one wrap of electrical tape. They are sort of snug but obviously, given that one was off, the can vibrate off. Well, with any luck that will eliminate the lean code on bank one and the #2 misfire.

For my next task, the valve stem seals. I am sort of stuck on this job because of my lack of experience. I removed the front valve cover to get started. So it is my undersatnding that I need to rotate each cylinder to TDC so that nothing falls down when I dissasemble using the valve spring compreesion tool. Only problem is I am not sure how to rotate the motor or how to tell if the cylinder is TDC. I thought I was going to look in the spark plug hole but that does not seem possible. Some help would be awesome! You guys are going to make a car mechanic out of me soon!

[tempfixit]

Originally Posted by hocky88

I got back to work on my van today. My plan was to change out the rear 3 injectors since I was able to pick them up for only $10 each on ebay. I removed the intake, etc. to get some room to see what I was doing and to my surprise I found the #2 injector was not electrically plugged in! As i inspected several other injectors. as I pressed the clips to disconnect, the clip would simply break off! Unbelieveable! So now all but maybe 1 injector is seated in place but with no locking clip. I may end up trying to secure with one wrap of electrical tape. They are sort of snug but obviously, given that one was off, the can vibrate off. Well, with any luck that will eliminate the lean code on bank one and the #2 misfire.

For my next task, the valve stem seals. I am sort of stuck on this job because of my lack of experience. I removed the front valve cover to get started. So it is my undersatnding that I need to rotate each cylinder to TDC so that nothing falls down when I dissasemble using the valve spring compreesion tool. Only problem is I am not sure how to rotate the motor or how to tell if the cylinder is TDC. I thought I was going to look in the spark plug hole but that does not seem possible. Some help would be awesome! You guys are going to make a car mechanic out of me soon!

Read post # 18 in this thread: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...1057795&page=2

Use a socket and 1/2 inch ratchet and turn the engine by hand clockwise. When the vlave tappets are both loose (tappets not touching the top of valve stem) the piston is on top dead center. You should be able to remove both valve springs and and change seals.

Do you have a repair manual???? for torque specs.

[mark_gober]

Originally Posted by hocky88

I got back to work on my van today. My plan was to change out the rear 3 injectors since I was able to pick them up for only $10 each on ebay. I removed the intake, etc. to get some room to see what I was doing and to my surprise I found the #2 injector was not electrically plugged in! As i inspected several other injectors. as I pressed the clips to disconnect, the clip would simply break off! Unbelieveable! So now all but maybe 1 injector is seated in place but with no locking clip. I may end up trying to secure with one wrap of electrical tape. They are sort of snug but obviously, given that one was off, the can vibrate off. Well, with any luck that will eliminate the lean code on bank one and the #2 misfire.

For my next task, the valve stem seals. I am sort of stuck on this job because of my lack of experience. I removed the front valve cover to get started. So it is my undersatnding that I need to rotate each cylinder to TDC so that nothing falls down when I dissasemble using the valve spring compreesion tool. Only problem is I am not sure how to rotate the motor or how to tell if the cylinder is TDC. I thought I was going to look in the spark plug hole but that does not seem possible. Some help would be awesome! You guys are going to make a car mechanic out of me soon!

Hocky,

PM me and I'll give you my private email address. I'm available to reply via email pretty quickly. I'm very familiar with the process since I did the front bank last night.

Mark

[hocky88]

Well, I took the conservative route today and did not mess with the stem seals. I sort of have a plan in mind for that down the road, but for today, just replaced the bank 1 injectors and put everything back together. It is running good for now, but of course, I know better than to proclaim victory on the #2 misfire and bank 1 lean code. I'll check after I get a better idea of how the van is running.