2000 Windstar needs some help

[hocky88]

I have a 2000 Windstar (105,000 miles) which I bought brand new...It is have been a love/hate relationship over the years whereby I have been bothered by many, many annoyances but in the end I really like the van and my family grew up in this thing and I am attached!

Admittedly, I am not the best mechanic and my maintenance on the vehicle has been average. I have done the upper intake gasket replacements several years back and in the last year for variouis reasons the van has gotten a new coil pack, wires and plugs.

I have 2 big problems and one smaller problem - engine misfires, unexplainable random oil loss and a IMRC problem. I do have a few codes - P0171, 1518 and 0303.

The easiest problem for me is the IMRC. Prior to getting the code, I had been reading here and I checked how my clips/rails were doing. The rails were both off and the front rail was missing. I went to the dealer and was able to buy clips for $6 each and they were nice enough to give me a used rail for the front side (bank 2 I believe). After installing the rails and clips, the code appeared. Upon inspection, it seems that the bank 1 rail is not moving freely as it will not move completely go the stop on the motor. So, I will take the intake apart this weekend and look to see how to clean the associated ports or butterflies, etc. I am really not sure what I may need to clean in there but I have read a ton here and I am sure I will see clearly how the IMRC works once the upper intake is off.

For the misfire and oil loss, I have more serious problems possibly. I took the car to a local mechanic for inspection. I was referred, but it was my first experience with the guy. He seemed ok but I am unsure. My check engine light is always on for one reason or another and we had experienced a seemingly quick oil loss. I needed to add 3+quarts! Our state requires emissions testing and the CEL must be off to pass the test. Anyway, the mechanic tells me the motor is done. Cylinder #3 and cylinder #5 failed a compression test and the plugs looked terrible. He said he got it to pass the emission test but the van would only last a month or 2. Well, after about a month, sure enough, the van started to run rough and the #3 and 5 plugs were wet with oil and looked terrible. On advice, I installed a bushing/extender in front of a new plug for each and have been watching the oil closely. I still have the #3 misfire code. Not so much the #5. The oil loss has not been a problem for several weeks.

Again, I am not a mechanic, but I have a little skill and I read like crazy here and elsewhere. I am unsure what potential problems could beand if I can fix them. I am anxious to give it a try and really need some suggestions. I would like to remove the cowl, upper intake and fix the IMRC and the address any ideas anyone would have for investigating the oil loss and misfires. Wiswind - your comments and pictures have been a great resource to me. I have read many great posts here from so many people. Thanks in advance for offering me some help! Would I learn anything by pulling the valve covers? I have not read where others have had problems with rings, etc. so I am hopeful that this is something I can troubleshoot for the top and repair. Perhaps a cracked spring? Current symptoms are rough idle but other than that it actually sounds and is running pretty well. No noises, knocks, stalling or hesitation; just the rough idle and codes. Thanks for reading my lenghty post!

[mark_gober]

Hocky,

Well, consider yourself in good company. My 2000 Windstar has the same "severe" oil loss. My twin brother has a 2003 that also had the same problem. His was doing it first and mine wasn't. Then, all the sudden, mine started doing it too.

I replaced all 6 spark plugs and the intake port seals and replaced the intake bolts. I didn't realize it, but my Windstar had already been fixed and the correct valve cover and intake bolts were already there. Since I had it off, I replaced them anyway. 5 of the 6 spark plugs were almost completely bridged by carbon buildup. I don't remember any of them being "wet" per se, but perhaps maybe one of them was. Prior to spark plug replacement, I was also experiencing misfires and poor engine performance.

After I replaced the plugs, and put it back together, the engine cleared the misfire codes and ran fine for about a month. It started misfiring again and I pulled the plugs again. This time, only one of the plugs was showing any noticeable bridging. I replaced the PCV valve hoping that it was defective and sucking too much oil into the engine.

Since replacing the PCV valve, I'm still burning oil. Now I'm more aware of it and check it weekly. I've recently started logging mileage vs. oil replacement to see how quickly I'm burning the oil. Rough estimate now is around a quart every 300-400 miles. I was in there the other day and noticed that the PCV valve fit very loosely into the rubber grommet on the valve cover. I took some electrical tape and wrapped it around the base of the PCV valve in order to fill up some of the gap. I refilled the oil to the top mark and I'm going to check it this weekend to gauge if it slowed the oil loss at all. This course of action depends on the rate that oil would be lost due to vaporization. Obviously, I'm not a scientist and don't really know to what degree oil would be lost due to vaporization, but it was loose (probably about a 1/4" of open air between the PCV valve and the rubber grommet if you moved it to one side. The top of the valve cover did have some black flaky residue next to it so hopefully that was it.

My next course of action will be to replace the valve stem seals. This is where I suspect my problem is. The valve stem seal is a rubber seal that fit around the valve stem (inside the valve spring) and its designed to keep oil from going down the valve stem and into the cylinder. This is an obvious source of oil leakage, but more difficult to fix than filling the gap on the PCV valve.

The valve stem seals aren't all THAT difficult to replace. It'll take probably 3 hours for all of the valves. You just have to be careful not to drop any of the valve stem keepers into the head or to allow the valve to drop into the cylinder. Short of that, it's pretty straight forward and the cost is pretty cheap. I think I saw I could get an entire stem seal set for around $40.

I wouldn't give up on your Windstar yet. Like you, I'm attached to mine and it has the unfortunate experience of having an owner who doesn't give up on problematic cars. It's now a challenge for me to fix it. I'd keep putting oil in it and I'll get back to you on my discoveries with my car. I'll know in relatively short order whether or not the PCV valve fixed it. If not, I'm purchasing the valve stem seals and will try to install those within the next two weeks.

With your IMRC, it should be relatively easy to free up. The butterfly plates simply rotate with the lever. You can remove the intake manifold and see them in action if you manually rotate the IMRC levers. I suspect they are just gummed up. BTW, while you're in there, check your EGR ports and clean them up. They're probably gunked up. I'd use some B-12 and a stiff bristled brush with a dental pick to get most of the gunk outta there. The fact that you're getting a code, might indicate that the actual IMRC is bad. I'm not sure that the IMRC has a circuit to tell it that the IMRC wasn't able to actually open all the way (due to gunk), but that's just a guess on my part.

Keep me posted on your progress and I'll do the same. I can only find a very few people who've complained about this problem, but both my brother and I have it. It's not nearly as common as the 0171/0174 issue and therefore I don't think it's get as much forum coverage.

Mark

[wiswind]

Your 2000 3.8L winstar should have a alluminum colored front valve cover (unless you replaced it and painted the replacement).
The improved valve cover from FORD was not painted.
This is the version with the improved baffel for the PCV valve.
You should be able to buy a new grommet for the PCV valve through Rockauto.

Please take note that it is NORMAL for some oil to be present in the intake.

A couple folks have had issues with broken springs for the valves.
Depending upon where the spring broke, you may or may not have noise.
You will need to remove the valve covers to inspect the valve springs.
One person posted pictures of their broken spring recently.
To avoid dropping the valve down into the head, this person rotated the motor to have the piston for the cylinder being worked on, in the TDC position......this is with the piston at the top most position.
You should be able to get the valve seals and springs through Rockauto.

I would also replace the valve cover gaskets......also available through Rockauto at good prices.
I would get the Felpro rubber style ones.
When you put the rear valve cover in place, use extra care to avoid rolling/pulling the gasket out of place.
The felpro rubber gaskets are to be DRY fitted.....no RTV.
A lot of oil can leak out the valve cover gaskets.

I am leaning more toward the problem being leakage and valve spring/seals.
Not leaning toward piston rings.

IMRC, if it was not working for a while, then it is likely that there is some crud built up that is causing the shaft to not turn freely.
Once you get it working freely, you should be fine.
As mentioned, if you remove the upper intake manifold to work on it......poke the EGR ports clear while you are there.
AVOID spraying cleaner down into the intake or having anything fall down into there as much as possible.....as it will be drawn into the cylinders from there.
Chunks could lodge in the valve seat and cause issues also.
I am well aware of the urge to make everything look squeaky clean, but that does not work well with keeping stuff out of on down in the intake.

[colonelcobb]

Regarding your "oil loss". With your mileage, I would change your oil and go strictly with synthetic oil. Why? Because conventional oil will "carbon-up" the piston rings, causing them to stick, thus loosing compression, and allowing oil blow-by.
Synthetic oil, because of its much higher "flash point" (temp when it will burn) will NOT carbon-up, plus, it will gradually de-carbon the piston rings, and restore compression.

I had a car that burned 1 quart of oil every 900 miles. I changed over to synthetic oil and it burned the 1st quart after 900 miles. I added one quart. It burned the 2nd quart after 1,500 miles. I added one quart. Then it burned the next quart after 3,200 miles and remained at that level of consumption for the next few years until I sold it.

Furthermore, the use of synthetic oil will DRAMATICALLY increase the life of your engine by eleminating wear. A recent publication reported that by using synthetic oil (in this case, Mobile 1) "ALL metal-to-metal contact ceases to exist with synthetic oil"

My Windstar has over 230,000 miles and still has full compression! (synthetic oil of course)

NEXT: I have found that there seems to be a vibration "harmonic" associated with the 3.8 Windstar engine, that when the engine is running "rough", it caused the oil filter to vibrate up and down, compressing and un-compressing the rubber gasket, causing it to "splash" oil out past the seal. I resolved my problem by using a "oil filter socket", and tightening the filter past the recommended amount. (careful not to over-do it!)

[hatethewindstar]

Prior to my 2000 windstar breaking its valve spring it consumed a lot of oil as well. So far the valve cover upgrade has eliminated this. The plug where the broken valve spring was, was heavily fouled BTW.

[hocky88]

Thanks for all of the great replies. You guys provided some inspriration get outside and deal with the cold here in PA, as I worked on the Windstar today.

First, I verified that in fact I did replace the front valve cover a few years back as I got a kit that contained a new valve cover, the isolator bolts, port seals, PCV, etc. I inspected the PCV valve - it seemed to be working fine. I squirted some Berrymans cleaner inside just in case.

I removed the cowl and the upper intake to get to the IMRC butterfly valves to see what the problem was with the bank 1 runner. I disconnected the IMRC control arm to see if the valves were sticking and thye were not so I reasoned that the arm had bent slightly, not allowing the valves to close when the bank 2 valves were colsed. So, that was a pretty easy fix.

I cleaned out the EGR ports again even thought they looked fine. I resisted the temptation to clean out the openings as you mentioned Wiswind and was careful not to get much of anything in that area.

I then removed both valve covers to inspect my springs. All looked fine I guess. I mostly used my fingers to check each spring to ensure it was in tact. I was amazed at how clean and "new" everthing looked under the valve covers. I then replaced the gaskets with new Felpro rubber gaskets and put the valve covers back. I put everything back together and put a can of Berryman B12 into the gas tank. The van is running about the same. The pinging seemed to be not as noticable. I did not visually watch the IMRC in action to verify it is working ok. I'll do that tomorrow. As I understand, I should be able to watch them close shortly after the engine starts.

I did not buy the stem seals yet and I am having a littlle trouble locating the spring tool required for the job so I am going to work on finding those things this week so I can install new valve stem seals next weekend. I am hoping that this will fix the fouling pugs, misfires and loss of oil. I hav those anti-fould bushings on the #5 and #3 cylinder plugs where I was having misfires and fouled plugs. I'll take out the bushings and install new plugs after I do the seals.

If time allows next weekend, I will also change the oil and switch back to synthetic. Ironiclly, the first signs of problems about a year ago began when I had switched to synthetic oil back then. First, I experienced some smoke from the exhaust during startup. And then shortly thereafter, I began losing oil... after a few too many quarts of synthetic, I just switched back to conventional.

Any thoughts or ideas for my work next weekend? I can't wait to get back at it. I have taken this van apart so may times I am getting pretty fast at it!

[wiswind]

The correct spark plugs to use are double platinum.
They have plantinum enhancement on BOTH the center electrode and the ground tab.
They are sold under the Motorcraft and Autolite brand names.
The multi-prong and other fancy spark plugs that they often display at the auto part stores (for more money) will not be of any help, and will not perform correctly in the Windstar.

Your pinging issue is likely caused by carbon build-up inside the cylinders caused by the oil consumption.
This carbon build up raises the comression inside the cylinder, causing the pinging.
There is a Reflash available from FORD to retard the timing slightly to address this.
I would correct all the other issues and see how things go before trying this.

[hatethewindstar]

I just used a 20.00 autozone spring compressor to do mine

[hatethewindstar]

here is the 20.00 spring remover I used on my 2000. Where the piece that compresses the valve spring keeper retainer is just tap it with a hammer to narrow it so it fits the smaller beehive retainers.

Just bring each piston to TDC and remove the keepers and spring. (best at this time to replace springs anyways about 60.00 for the set and like 12.00 for all the seals, also order a couple extra keepers. got mine from rock auto) anyways after you remove the spring the valve will not fall more then maybe 2 inches, then dry the keeper groves and apply vaseline to the keeper groves. this will make the keepers stick to the valve stem during installation. the new dry seal will keep the valve up while you install the spring if it does fall just pry it up again is all. there is no need to used compressed air or rope in cylinder to do this. Worked like a charm on my 2000 3.8

Got it at autozone if memory serves me right and it worked great.

[hocky88]

Can additives hep to cut the carbon buildup in the cylinders?

I realized that I have been using the single platinum and not the double platinum so I will change all 6 plugs to the Autolite APP105's after I replace the seals. Also, I really want to get those anti-fouling bushing out of there as I feel that they may contribute to the rough idle or misfires, although I am not certain of this.

Hatethewindstar -Thanks for the pic as I really had no idea what the tool looked like. I found a few made by Neiko that seem like they will work such as this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Neiko...motiveQ5fTools


Today, I had to work, but found some time to look under the hood. I checked oout the IMRC and it looks to be working fine. Prior to starting the runners were open and as soon as I started the engine, the valves closed all the way. I looked around some and noticed that I do have a fair amount of oil wetness all around the head gaskets. Not sure if that is normal or not. Anyway, with fouling plugs I still feel the stems are necessary so I am staying with our gameplan. I'll go to autozone tomorrow to see if they stock the valve spring compressor tool and if not I'll buy the one on ebay.

[hatethewindstar]

Originally Posted by hocky88

Can additives hep to cut the carbon buildup in the cylinders?

I realized that I have been using the single platinum and not the double platinum so I will change all 6 plugs to the Autolite APP105's after I replace the seals. Also, I really want to get those anti-fouling bushing out of there as I feel that they may contribute to the rough idle or misfires, although I am not certain of this.

Hatethewindstar -Thanks for the pic as I really had no idea what the tool looked like. I found a few made by Neiko that seem like they will work such as this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Neiko...motiveQ5fTools


Today, I had to work, but found some time to look under the hood. I checked oout the IMRC and it looks to be working fine. Prior to starting the runners were open and as soon as I started the engine, the valves closed all the way. I looked around some and noticed that I do have a fair amount of oil wetness all around the head gaskets. Not sure if that is normal or not. Anyway, with fouling plugs I still feel the stems are necessary so I am staying with our gameplan. I'll go to autozone tomorrow to see if they stock the valve spring compressor tool and if not I'll buy the one on ebay.

I put just regular AP105 plugs in my 2000 and it is doing fine with them. My broken spring contributed to other missfires detected as well as lean condition detected on the rear bank and random missfire code. #2 spark plug was fould big time and that is the cylinder that had a broken exhaust valve spring.

I think you are going to find a broken spring. I did a thread and listed all the things my van did such as driveability issues and plug wire issues and after changing the spring it hasn't done any of it.

You might also want to check your coilpack mount for rust buildup that can affect the ground for the coilpack.

[mark_gober]

Any luck on purchasing the valve stem compression tool or the valve stem seals yet?

Mark

[hocky88]

It was a rough weekend for the Windstar. I decided to delay working on the valve stem seals one weekend because temps were going to be in the 20's this weekend. Well, I got called into action anyway. The van began running really rough and of course there were codes. 1518, 0303,0302 and P0171.

For the 1518, I don't get that, I observe the position of the runners and they both look closed but there is pinging and I obviously can't tell if it is closed while driving but I suspect it is not fullly closed. A new IMRC motor from the dealer is $252 so I am hoping to delay that pending the outcome of the other problems.

The CEL began flashing and the van was almost undrivable. So off came the cowl and I inspected the #3 plug. It seemed ok to me and I had just replaced that wire about a month ago. Well I put in anther new AP105 that I had purchased a while back and went for a test drive. The CEL is still falshing an imediately showed the 0302 code. SO I checked that plug. Again, I have not worked on cars alot in my day so I am not so sure whata bad plug would look like. The threads were wet with oil and there was some crud on the plug so I changed it as well. After test drive, no improvement. Next changed the wire to #2, no change...The coil pack was changed last year some time. The only unusual circumstance recently is that I had a leak in the coolant system from that pipe that runs right along the block and the leak was squirting right on the coil for about a week so the coil looks a little dirty with antifreeze.

Anyway, back to the cylinder problem, I am thinking I would love to pull the injectors and soak them in some cleaner for a day because I was thinking that lack of fuel could be causing the recurring problems. The wetness in cylinder #2 is bothersome.

For my oil loss situation, I should mention that I realized that I have been running 10W40 instead of 5W30 at the suggestion from a tech at the parts store since I was losing oil rather quickly. I have lost only one quart in about a month - not bad.

So, I am beginning to wonder wether I can handle this repair myself. I still want to do and fell I can handle the stem seals, and at that time,while I have everything apart, I can pull the injectors and soak them. But I am having my doubts as to whether the end result will be a fixed motor.

Is it worth it to purchase the tools and learn how to perform a compression check on some of these cylinders? Would you just disconnect the IMRC for now and keep the butterflys closed? Can I troubleshoot the fuel system? What do you guys think? Is it time to consider just trying another shop for some help? I hate to go that way, but it was dissapointing that plug replacements did not eliminate the flashing CEL. Thanks for helping everyone!

[mark_gober]

Alot of stuff in that reply...let's see if I can address them all.

First your imrc. Before I ever paid $252, I'd throw $15 at a junkyard part. This is nothing more than an electrical motor. I'm sure you've checked, but are the white clips still intact and the arms connected to the motor? Thus is a very common problem on windstars.

Next, your rough running. You very well could have a bad coil. I know you just replaced it a year ago, but you've changed the plugs and it still does it. Did you check your wires? If it's consistently the same misfire on the same cylinder, you could try to swap wires with a known good one to test the wires.

Wet plug is almost certainly due to your oil (and a misfiring cylinder). To try and solve the misfire, run your engine at night, lift the hood and look for sparking. Bad coils or wires should be sparking to ground and you'll definitely see it. Backside of engine might be tough, but maybe a mirror might help.

Compression test....you can borrow the tool from almost any auto parts store, although purchasing them is usually pretty cheap. (~$15). Just screw it in in place of your spark plug and crank. I've always been told to remove all other plugs so that your engine rotates as freely as possible. Not sure if others agree, just what my dear ol' dad always taught me. In theory, all values should be close from cylinder to cylinder. No more than 10% difference between any of them. If you have a low one, squirt oil into the cylinder and retry. If it goes up, you could have bad rings. There are more advanced tests that can be done, but Ive never done them. They involve slowly rotating the engine while pressurizing it and locating where in the cylinder you have a problem. Would I freak out if any reading was more than 10% off....nope. I might worry if I had cylinder that had 20psi while the others had 100, but generally speaking, i'm not ripping a windstar engine apart for 10% variance. (once again, just personal preference)

I don't think your engine is as bad off as you think. Just work the problems one at a time and you'll be fine.

I'm going to purchase my valve stem seals tonight and attempt the job next weekend. My PVC tape up job did nothing for my oil consumption. I'll document the job if you'd like.

Mark

[hocky88]

Nothing ever seems simple with this van combined with my inexperience. The IMRC is connected with new clips from a few weeks ago. I have watched the valves begin opened, then close when the van starts. I wrked on this a few weekends ago when the upper intake was off. EGR ports still looked fine and the butterflies moved freely. I did not do much cleaning arounde the butterflies as I was directed it could casue more harm...Anyway, can't hurt to try and find one at a junkyard.

For compression, my question really is what would I learn from the results? Would a low pressure at this point be blamed on a stem seal? Would it determine that serious problems exist and I may want to cut my losses? Seems like for the effort involved (seems easy enough) I may learn some stuff. So just pull all 6 plugs, carefully marked of course, then one by one, insert the gauge into each cylinder and turn over? Ok, O will work on that...

Ok, I saved the funny stuff for last. After getting bed and reading your post Mark, I was dying to know if I had any arcing going on. I actually left the cowl off the van so it was in perfect form for the test. So, off I went, outside in jammmys and slippers to look for arcs. Well, I saw nothing around any wires and nothing around the coil. My wife thinks I'm sort of nuts and I may agree with her!

So, I will get after that compression test before I do the seals and I check back after I gather those numbers. If anyone has some other thoughts; I am all ears...