Gto

[farking_funny]

Well mechanically speaking, there have been no problems at all as far as I'm aware. When the VT was first released, there were some issues with build quality. but you would expect a few teething problems to start with. (Totally new model!)

And the build quality issues have been well and truly fixed. This is a big chance for Holden to get high numbers of exports going, so I'm pretty sure that they will take extra care in making sure that nothing will go wrong with the U.S bound cars.

[Thunda Downunda]

Originally posted by Murco
Actually, that body package is alot more appealing to me than the HSV car. I don't care for the aero-do-dads and like a smoother, tighter look. The HSV, like most cars with "aero-packages", looks dis-jointed to me. And if it has a basic LS1 thats OK too! There are plenty of go-fast parts available for those engines here!

Yep, the cleaner the better in my view. Aero often ends up looking like tits on a bull - superfluous and a touch ridiculous. For mention there's heaps of high-quality locally made mods available too, including excellent brake & suspension upgrades (btw currently at US53 cents to the A$)

BTW - Being an Australian, could you comment on the reliability reputation these cars have? Any problem areas?

Murco I've followed your informative & well-written posts - thanks for sharing your views. By way of recompense (and because I'm bored off my brain today) may I tender my overview of Holden?

Holden began from a Blacksmith's shop in the 1800's, evolving through making carts and then on to high quality car bodies for imported chassis of various manufacturers. Of note they innovated the 1st all steel roof pressing, or 'turret top' as Holden dubbed it (no fabric insert) in 1934/5? Along with German Opel, GM purchased Holden for a song in the Depression. After WW2 when America nobly saved our arse from Nippon, Australia decided it really did need a manufacturing base, and thus with GM expertise (and copious Aust. Govt. funding) in 1948 our national car the Holden was born.

Prior to The Big One (WW2) our choices were European (eg: more pre-war Lancias currently exist here than in all the rest of the world combined), dour underpowered unreliable English models, and American cars which although superior to UK units were expensive here, both to purchase and fuel. Holden changed all that. It's unusually light 'Aerobuilt' monocoque and good power-to-weight in a compact package gave it the economy and handling of a British car & the torquey performance & reliability of a US one, and quickly there was a seven year waiting list! A bit like the later Aero Willys if you remember them. So with one basic model (and a fair slice of Govt import protection) Holden soon owned over 50% of the market and became a cash-cow for GM-US.

Along with their success formula of a good-performing yet affordable and cheap to run unit was a reputation earned of reliability & durability crucial for our long travelling distances and shocking roads. Back then Chevs & Plymouths were slow ponderous creatures and flathead Fords boiled into oblivion during the summer heat.
Through steady improvements via model cycles Holden evolved into the strongest and most dependable vehicle available here, although their 'rustbucket' reputation did linger until the mid 60's. But the Brits were hopeless (and getting worse) while soft-riding 'yank tanks' or Floating Gin Palaces offered durable drivetrains but were expensive, had little in the way of brakes and through their weight and mushy suspension destroyed the steering & front-end on the bumps, for no real performance benefit.

By then Holdens were being exported to (from memory) 50 countries. Locally they were synonamous for a fuss-free, affordable yet egalitarian (classless) car that could take the knocks and 'always get you there' - even through the outback. Their engineering sensibly followed the KISS philosophy, also beautifully finished coachwork and easy to work on. Holden's slogan 'Built for Australian conditions' gained great relevance and loyalty in motorists psyche here. For example, I can remember travelling from the major east (Sydney) to west (Perth) cities in the mid-1960's, which entailed over 1,000 hard miles of appallingly bad dirt road 'highway' (conditions that would probably deter current SUV proponents) and was still unsealed until well into the late 70's - early 80's?

Sadly this well-won reputation took a big hit in 1978 when (in an insane decision via GM-US) Holden dumped the locally-evolved/engineered and much loved H-series model (the country's best seller at the time) replacing it with the Opel V-platform Commodore bodyshell (using local mechanicals) which the Germans claimed was up to the job. It's a well-known fact that the first two Opel-supplied prototypes literally split in half during Holden's standard outback durability test, something a H-series would sail through. Not only that but the quality had gone out the window! The new design was much harder to build than the clever H-series - the traditionally 'tight as a drum' body now had clangy doors, thin panels and a general el-cheapo feel thru-out. Opel-designed bits were breaking and falling off everywhere! Initial sales enthusiasm first tapered, then fell.

So commenced a hasty and urgent program of re-inforcement, a process that continued long after the release date and through many subsequent model updates, along with a vow from Australian management to never again trust Opel durability standards! But the damage had been done, both to Holden's name and their quality - from being the largest Australian company (and employer), they were technically bankrupt by 1984 and if not for a large return-of-profit cash infusion by GM-US to retire debt and provide working capital, plus the loyalty of customers, Holden as a manufacturer would most probably have gone under.

When Opel's new-generation Commodore design was offered to us (released here in 1989) Holden was clawing back financially and wisely told Opel to jam it, instead going it alone by retaining the existing and by now much-modified & stronger 1st gen platform widened & lengthened it and grafted Opel's new-generation styling upon it. Also new was the excellent Buick 3800 V6 (RWD) along with the existing Holden-designed V8, and Holden regained sales leadership, retained to this day. Holden's 1st-generation derived platform was again significantly re-engineered and strengthened (keeping existing 2nd gen styling) with a new design front structure in 1993, Opel not sharing in the re-design as both companies products were evolving in different directions, and now from different generation designs.

By the time of the current 3rd gen styling (eg Cadillac Catera) released in 1998, Holden Commodore production had outstripped Opel Commodore, and the two diverged further in design. While again further enlarged (lengthened, widened) but retaining the Opel (and to my eyes Buick Regal) styling theme, no parts were shared between the two (save for doorhandles), only the name and a shared ancestry with the original 1978 1st generation design. With the new model and its traditional solidity largely returned, sales steadily grew from the pitiful 60-odd thousand of the 80's. The fabulous-sounding Holden V8 was retired in 2000, replaced by the awesome LS-1.

Having sold off 4 of its 5 manufacturing plants back in the grim times, Holden is now a one-line car company, producing 131,000 Commodores last year and imported about 40,000 other various GM vehicles, none from North America. Company strengths include a world-class crash test facility, solid design & engineering depth, strong sales growth and booming exports. Holden is now the centre of GM RWD design technology worldwide, responsible for certain aspects of crash safety & research, and btw had a major input via designing the 'hard points' of the new Sigma platform, which was initially referred to in-house as the Holden-Sigma.

Last year GM's South Pacific arm returned fully 85% of profits back to North America, averaging 50% over the longer term (even through the tough times) for a 21% return of investment. GM's Bob Lutz says Holden is GM's best-performing division.

Now, having made you plough through all the above to familiarise yourself with this brand, on to its current reputation regarding quality. They are certainly viewed here as offering more long-term durability than japanese vehicles such as Toyota Camry, Honda Accord etc for example. Holden's production capacity is stretched, and soon to be triple-shifted, but initial defects per 100 vehicles are only slightly worse than jap-assembled vehicles and ever improving. But as you may agree with me this measurement has more to do with the illusory perceived quality than the real world of 'how reliable are they - how long do they last - how cheap/easy to fix? Of course being a RWD design plus adapted for tough conditions is a great advantage for the long-term owner. Apart from typical early-build woes the only real concerns about quality gaining any real prominence and publicity on recent Commodores have been some complaints of excessive rear inner-tyre wear due to negative camber of the fairly primitive trailing arm IRS design and, strange to say, the imported LS-1 V8! From memory about a 3% failure rate (about 1,000 cars affected) on early examples reported due to piston slap, oval pistons, oil surge & excessive oil consumption, all now fixed. In my close experience of leased '98 Statesman V8 & 2000 SS LS-1, no defects, no rattles - no dramas.

[replicant_008]

TD as ever is correct...

The odd LS-1 has oil consumption problems and I've also heard of the odd big end problem with them too.

The VT GTS300 has a full recall to check the IRS rear-ends but that problem appears to be isolated to a few cars.

The VT was a major sales success but even Holden would concede that some quality gremlins surfaced when production was stretched. I'm still unconvinced about the wear rates on the semi-trailing IRS despite the magic 'toe-control' arms (which actually started off as a fix for the Opel Carlton).

At the end of the day, you're looking at a reliable basic platform that's relatively low-tech - it isn't the stiffest platform but it doesn't need to be. There's been some good quality engineering to maintain durability for its home market but it isn't comparable interior wise with some Euros. Some of the upmarket models have some relatively expensive doo-das which seem to be a bit gimmicky.

NVH is okay but you're comparing to a domestic car with sporty aspirations ie it won't be the most plush ride but it does handles well for a relatively heavy car.

[Murco]

Thanks for the insight Thunda!!
Would you per chance work for Holden? Good to know they are built with a strong chassis and suspension, even with GM's meddling ways in the background! I hope GM re-evaluates the Catera (brings it back as a different brand-name) as I saw that car as having the strongest potential of GM's current domestic offerings.
Thanks again for the info!!
Russ

[Cbass]

I have to say after reading all these posts, that the American auto industry is in a very sad state. The very fact that the big 3 are losing customers raised on their products to the Germans and the Japanese shows us this.

Again proving that bean counting accountants ruin everything.