Cars I RAPED!!!

Nobody here claims that a Maxima is faster than an LS1. I will say that they are damn stupid if they do. All it takes, in REAL WORLD RACING, is a bad launch, or a missed shift. There are stock Maxima's running 14.0 in the quarter, and there are stock LS1's running 13.6 in the quarter. How is it so damn hard to believe that an LS1 lost to a car with a "Ward's 10 best engine" nine years running? It's not.

Nobody here claims that a Maxima is faster than an LS1. I will say that they are damn stupid if they do. All it takes, in REAL WORLD RACING, is a bad launch, or a missed shift. There are stock Maxima's running 14.0 in the quarter, and there are stock LS1's running 13.6 in the quarter. How is it so damn hard to believe that an LS1 lost to a car with a "Ward's 10 best engine" nine years running? It's not. An LS1 with a bad launch or a missed shift would still make up the time and overtake a Maxima unless they let off of it. Being Wards 10 best engine does not give it any more HP, and that's what wins, HP to weight ratio which the Maxima is sorely behind an LS1 F body. Poor driver or not The Maxima is as heavy as the F body with A LOT less HP.

A stock Maxima does not run a 14.0 flat. Even if it did, have you ever raced at a track, even a slow LS1 running your stated 13.6 against a 14.0 would leave it quite a ways behind. .4 is a pretty big gap, and considering the poor 13.6 would probably be more likey due to a poor launch rather than low HP the 13.6 LS1 would still pull way harder once it got rolling.

Have you ever driven an LS1 F body? I'm not saying they are the end all be all, but you really seem to be trying to minimize what they can do.

Even following your theory through, if I race a Lambo and the dude misses a shift and lets off does that mean my car can beat a Lambo?? That's just stupid.

Nobody here claims that a Maxima is faster than an LS1. I will say that they are damn stupid if they do. All it takes, in REAL WORLD RACING, is a bad launch, or a missed shift. There are stock Maxima's running 14.0 in the quarter, and there are stock LS1's running 13.6 in the quarter. How is it so damn hard to believe that an LS1 lost to a car with a "Ward's 10 best engine" nine years running? It's not.

Sure, i can probably beat a horribly driven Viper GTS, but that doesn't mean i beat the car....i just beat the clueless driver. Any half-way decent driver would KILL me. Same story here with any year maxima vs Ls1. That means very little cause even a well driven Geo metro would pull on my mom if she were put in the seat of a Viper GTS 6spd.

The cars in this topic are a 95 maxima 5spd rated at 190hp vs a 98 z28 A4 underrated at 305hp. The Z easily has 100+lb-st of tq on the Maxima as well i'm assuming. Okay, we'll assume the guy in the z28 had a horrible launch, but after that, it would annihilate and pull real hard on the maxima in question. Outside of the launch, the auto is pretty much error free since the auto tranny does all the shifting for you. All you gotta do is push down on the go pedal and keep the steering straight. Given decent speeds (50+mph), even an auto Ls1 with a horrible launch would come back to kill a stock 95 maxima. Not saying his claimed kill didn't happen (could have raced to 40mph for all i know :rofl:), but it has BS written all over it.

FormulaLt1, no offense, but you don't know nearly as much as you pretend to know.

Sure, i can probably beat a horribly driven Viper GTS, but that doesn't mean i beat the car....i just beat the clueless driver. Any half-way decent driver would KILL me. Same story here with any year maxima vs Ls1. That means very little cause even a well driven Geo metro would pull on my mom if she were put in the seat of a Viper GTS 6spd.

The cars in this topic are a 95 maxima 5spd rated at 190hp vs a 98 z28 A4 underrated at 305hp. The Z easily has 100+lb-st of tq on the Maxima as well i'm assuming. Okay, we'll assume the guy in the z28 had a horrible launch, but after that, it would annihilate and pull real hard on the maxima in question. Outside of the launch, the auto is pretty much error free since the auto tranny does all the shifting for you. All you gotta do is push down on the go pedal and keep the steering straight. Given decent speeds (50+mph), even an auto Ls1 with a horrible launch would come back to kill a stock 95 maxima. Not saying his claimed kill didn't happen (could have raced to 40mph for all i know :rofl:), but it has BS written all over it.


Exactly!! Your first paragraph sums up my whole point. I am very well aware that my car is not as fast as an LS1. I just beat the driver.

BTW, my Maxima is a 255 hp, 265 TQ, not the same as a 95.

Have you ever driven an LS1 F body? I'm not saying they are the end all be all, but you really seem to be trying to minimize what they can do.

Yes, I have driven quite a few. I was going to get a Camaro SS before I decided I wanted to restore the Corvette I have now. I am fully capable of what an LS1 is capable of. All I have said this whole time is that I took out an LS1, once. That's it.

Thrasher is refering to the 260 Maxima, which although it has more HP than the older ones, 265 HP 255 TQ... it also has gained weight at 3436 pounds. 265 HP/255 TQ in a FWD 3400+ pound car is a prescription for a slow car. And the 6 speed although it give the car a fairly stout 4.113 final ratio does little to make it a whole lot faster with the FWD handicap.

You guys think you know everything dont you? Even everything about
our cars. The weight of a 02 or 03 6 speed Maxima is 3316 pounds.
Like he said, miss a gear in your z-28, and your going to lose against
a 6 speed Maxima. What is so hard to figure out? :nutkick:

Also, a new Mustang Cobra supercharged will whip your cars. :biggrin:

Well to start of I have a 1995 Nissan Maxima GXE 5 Speed Manual trans everything stock. I am gonna list cars that i raced and won. Well here it goes.

~Nissan 240 year ??? Manual trans, kept up with me till 1st gear and little of second took him in 3rd.

~1998 Honda Civic Vtec, headers, Muffler, Intake, took him.

~2001 Ford Mustang V6 Auto.

~Ford Mustang old one, V8 stick. Took him by couple cars.

~1986 Chevy Monte Carlo SS

~1999 Chevy Camaro Z28 Auto, Head to head, and took him by couple feet.

~1995 Ford Mustang GT Ran the same side by side.

~1998 Saturn LS, wow what was he thinking

~1990 Chevy Bereta GTZ, garbage.

~1989 Chevy Blazer, No match.

~1995 Pontiac Grand AM.

~1996 Toyota Camry Auto.

~1998 Mitsubisi Eclipse turbo and non turbo.

~1994 Nissan Altima, stick no match.

~2003 Honda Accord 4 banger auto.

~1995-1996 Nissan Maxima Auto

~2002 Toyota Celica manual side by side.

~2004 Dodge pickup truck, Yeah its a Hemi :-) lol JOKE!!!

Couple more i can't remember right now.

So what have you BEATIN!!!!

No way in hell you beat an LS1 Z28, thats the stupidest,riciest thing Ive ever heard. Id like to see a stock '95 maxima that run 13's.

You guys think you know everything dont you? Even everything about
our cars. The weight of a 02 or 03 6 speed Maxima is 3316 pounds.
Like he said, miss a gear in your z-28, and your going to lose against
a 6 speed Maxima. What is so hard to figure out? :nutkick:

Also, a new Mustang Cobra supercharged will whip your cars. :biggrin:
Ummm...the 2004 Maxima is 3436 pounds.

Miss a gear AND I'll still beat the Maxima.

The 03-04 now not being made S/C Cobra is a very close race to an LS1 F body, they do have a lot of potential but most folks are runing 13.0-13.1's which puts them right alongside my SS.

You guys think you know everything dont you? Even everything about
our cars. The weight of a 02 or 03 6 speed Maxima is 3316 pounds.
Like he said, miss a gear in your z-28, and your going to lose against
a 6 speed Maxima. What is so hard to figure out? :nutkick:

Also, a new Mustang Cobra supercharged will whip your cars. :biggrin:

Hmm, it's gonna take more than a simple gear miss for an Ls1 z28 to lose to a new max. Miss a gear, find it, and reel back maxima in assuming he's even caught up (chances are he/she still hasn't). In well driven examples, the difference 1/4 mile wise is over a full second and 10mph. That my friend is NOT close. That's bus-lengths.

But when reffering to incompetant drivers (point thrasher is making), anything goes. Again, the z28 wouldn't be to blame for the loss, but the schmuck behind the wheel.

As for the 03+ Cobra, love em. They're faster, no denying that. 390 underrated hp (355-380hp to the wheels) :sunglasse. But we have a heck of better chance in beating or hanging with one stock for stock than a maxima does against an ls1 z28. I'm still waiting for the 03 Cobra's to come down to about 15g's :smokin:.

3.5 Maxima/Altima's are awesome cars, and pretty quick given they're family sedans, but this whole comparing it to an Ls1 z28 sounds rediculous. In the end, even a more powerful performance oriented 3.5 VQ powered Nissan like the 350z will need a poorly driven ls1 if it has any chance of winning or hanging.

Thrasher is refering to the 260 Maxima, which although it has more HP than the older ones, 265 HP 255 TQ... it also has gained weight at 3436 pounds. 265 HP/255 TQ in a FWD 3400+ pound car is a prescription for a slow car. And the 6 speed although it give the car a fairly stout 4.113 final ratio does little to make it a whole lot faster with the FWD handicap.
the only maxima that weighs that much is the 04 and upcoming 05. a 4th gen(95-99) weighs as little as 2895 and as much as 3100 with an automatic tranny(supposedly these are underrated and make an actual 210-220 hp). if i still had the 95 i'd show you my registration listing it at 2895 lbs. the 02-03's equipped with the 6 speed tranny making 255 hp 265 ft lbs of tq weigh in at 3224 according to the registration in my new max giving it a power:weight ratio of 12.7 lbs per hp, gimme a $200 cattman y pipe and i could have that ratio closer to 12 even. a 1999 camaro z28 weighs 3574 lbs according to edmunds.com and make 305 hp giving it an 11.7 lb per hp power:weight ratio. it's not so much of an insurmountable difference as you make it seem. one small error on either drivers side is going to decide the outcome of the race. either driver could feasibly beat the other.

as for everyone else flooding the forums, i don't recall anyone saying they beat an SS/WS6 model F body if they did, as thrasher said, they're a little off their rocker. i said i hung neck and neck with a 92-ish Z28 in my lightly modded 95 5 speed SE max and i stand by it.

and for the guy who called the maxima an econobox :screwy:. our maxima's have more niceties and amenities than any Fbody. last i checked people looking for economy based vehicles(econobox's) didn't buy car's with 255 hp, 6 speed transmission with optional HLSD, dual heated power seats, heated steering wheel, optional navigation, 17" alloy rims, 6 disc in dash cd changer, 7 speaker stereo system complete with 8" subwoofer & controls on the steering wheel. with an engine so well made that it's capable of running low 14's in the 1/4 mile all the while making 24-30 mpg around town.

you ever get into an argument with somoene who is obviously of lower intelligence than yourself?
and then you say somthing and you get them to the point where they are obviosuly stumped as to how to make an intelligent that they just revert to childish comments like "fuck you", "your mamma" or something to that extent?

that's what theses comments remind me of


What a bunch of fuckin ricers
The Ls1 Can Neva Lose!!!!!!!
f body---><----maxima
Dude, A Stock Maxima With Nawsssss Would Hand Your 10 Sec Talon Its Ass, Smartin Up
ouch, we hurt your fellings:thefinger:

they're either non contributive, non-sensical, or just straight up jibberish utterings of a man so obviously stupid that he can no longer contribute cognititve, relative information to an argument betweent normal people. unfortunately he is probably too stupid to realize that that's a bad thing, so he thinks he's funny. :( poor guy. good thing other forums have active moderators, one day he'll be banned for trolling.

[QUOTE=BP2K2Max]the only maxima that weighs that much is the 04 and upcoming 05. a 4th gen(95-99) weighs as little as 2895 and as much as 3100 with an automatic tranny(supposedly these are underrated and make an actual 210-220 hp). if i still had the 95 i'd show you my registration listing it at 2895 lbs. the 02-03's equipped with the 6 speed tranny making 255 hp 265 ft lbs of tq weigh in at 3224 according to the registration in my new max giving it a power:weight ratio of 12.7 lbs per hp, gimme a $200 cattman y pipe and i could have that ratio closer to 12 even. a 1999 camaro z28 weighs 3574 lbs according to edmunds.com and make 305 hp giving it an 11.7 lb per hp power:weight ratio. it's not so much of an insurmountable difference as you make it seem. one small error on either drivers side is going to decide the outcome of the race. either driver could feasibly beat the other.

QUOTE]


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No. The cars are not even close. There is no basis to compare them, the Maxima is an average speed sedan, the LS1 F body is a very fast muscle car.

I weighed my 01 SS, it's 3375 pounds without me. I weigh 175, so 3550 with driver. The motor is rated at 325 HP and in reality puts out 350 hp. This is confirmed by the car running a best of 13.0@107 in the 1/4 mile, and running consistent 13.1 with traction problems. Do the math, those times and MPH require between 320-330 HP AT THE WHEELS. Easily confirming 350 at the motor.

So the HP to weight ratio is 9.75 or better. Your 12.75 of the Maxima is sorely lacking against the LS1.

You want to talk mods to your Maxima? Hell...there are no mods dollar for dollar that will let you catch or keep up with an LS1. Every dollar spent on the cars will put the LS1 further out of the Maxima's reach.

Fact is a few folks have run into the 12's with stock LS1's. Your Maxima is in another class of speed well below the LS1, and to even suggest it holds a chance of being close or near an LS1 is simply ludicrous and wishful thinking.

a 1999 camaro z28 weighs 3574 lbs according to edmunds.com and make 305 hp giving it an 11.7 lb per hp power:weight ratio.

Don't know where the extra hundred lb came from, but i would have to question your source (edmund). That's fine because i've caught a few of their inaccuracies in the past (one of them was the rear legroom of the F-150 supercrew truck when i was in the market for one...mixed #'s up with the extended cab).

Looks like you got the #'s for the convertible. According to supercars.net, a z28 coupe weighs 3,439lbs and the convertible weighs 3574lbs.

it's not so much of an insurmountable difference as you make it seem. one small error on either drivers side is going to decide the outcome of the race. either driver could feasibly beat the other.


Yeah right:lol:. No offense, but it NOT a drivers race. All looks good on paper, but the outcome wouldn't be pretty or close in real life. For starters, the 305hp rating is meaningless because your average 99 z28 will easily belt down 290+rwhp. The newer ones with the ls6 intake will put down 305-310rwhp on average with some being as high as 316+rwhp. The 305hp rating is very underrated. Secondly, the cars are different in everything from the drive wheel, to aerodynamics, gearing, powerband, tq figures, etc... Too many variable to just look at 1 figure (Hp to weight) and come to the conclusion that it is close. Don't let some figures on paper fool you into thinking a maxima for an ls1 z28 is a drivers race.

Again, yes an incompetant driver can lose the race for anyone. I can probably beat a Viper GTS 6spd with a clueless person (like my mom who could barely drive stick) behind the wheel, but that hardly makes a race between a stock z28 and Viper GTS a drivers race.

as for everyone else flooding the forums, i don't recall anyone saying they beat an SS/WS6 model F body if they did

Why does everything think the SS's and Ws6's are any faster than z28's and formulas??? :nono:

Exactly, total gross driver incompetence does NOT constitute a "drivers race". If the driver is going to start in 3rd gear or miss 3 shifts in a row that is NOT a drivers race, that's not even a race anymore.

And a bad launch or 1 missed shift on an LS1 would NOT give a Maxima a win, the LS1 still has way more HP available to make up that lost time. And A MAxima is not going to launch anygood anyhow, FWD sucks unless you're running slicks.

Why does everything think the SS's and Ws6's are any faster than z28's and formulas??? :nono: The SS/WS6 auto's will be faster due to the standard 3:23 gears versus 2:73 for the other models. But I believe all 6 speeds got 3:42 gears so the 6 speed models are on equal footing. Certainly the 01-02 with the LS6 intake usually show a bit more HP too.

Ive seen a vid of a supercharged 02 Maxima racing a stock SS camaro, the maxima was hanging with the camaro,but the camaro was inching on it.

Ive seen a vid of a supercharged 02 Maxima racing a stock SS camaro, the maxima was hanging with the camaro,but the camaro was inching on it.
A Stillen kit only puts the older ones in the mid to low 14's.

Here's the link Pretty pitiful, $3700 to run mid 14's. That is a joke.

http://www.stillen.com/sportscars_detail.asp?id=3153

i have a video on my computer of a lightly modded 97 5 speed max vs a 97 z28 auto and the maxima finishes about 1.5 cars ahead.

http://www.oman-hp.com/html/races.html

this site contains the same video but it won't let you DL it for some reason.
if anyone can/wants to host the vid i'll send it. or i'll email it to anyone interested, it's not very long at all. i know that this is just one instance but it should show that it's not always going to be the massacre you guys make it to be. and the z28's an auto so it'd be hard to say it's the driver's fault.

Here's the link Pretty pitiful, $3700 to run mid 14's. That is a joke.

http://www.stillen.com/sportscars_detail.asp?id=3153

i know that's from stillens web page directly but that's gotta be total bullshit. Ceasar'sChariot(a maxima owner on these boards) has timeslips of 14.1 with just bolt ons. search his name and visit his cardomain site if you wanna verify it.

i have a video on my computer of a lightly modded 97 5 speed max vs a 97 z28 auto and the maxima finishes about 1.5 cars ahead.

http://www.oman-hp.com/html/races.html

this site contains the same video but it won't let you DL it for some reason.
if anyone can/wants to host the vid i'll send it. or i'll email it to anyone interested, it's not very long at all. i know that this is just one instance but it should show that it's not always going to be the massacre you guys make it to be. and the z28's an auto so it'd be hard to say it's the driver's fault.

First off the 1997 is the weaker LT1 motor, which we're not talking about.

Second, what does it matter once you start modding?

Put the same dollors for mods on BOTH cars fer cripes sakes. The Maxima will never come out on top. That is simple, sound factual reasoning.

Fact is a 1997 Maxima is a very slow mid 15 second car. a 1997 Z 28 though no barn burner would run a 14.0.

i know that's from stillens web page directly but that's gotta be total bullshit. Ceasar'sChariot(a maxima owner on these boards) has timeslips of 14.1 with just bolt ons. search his name and visit his cardomain site if you wanna verify it.
Come on, the older ones are mid 15 second cars. Do you realize the level of bolt ons(non forced induction) required to put a mid 15's FWD car into a 14.1???? Stillens times are right in line with the expected HP increase from the S/C.

First off the 1997 is the weaker LT1 motor, which we're not talking about.

Second, what does it matter once you start modding?

Hey now, watch that first statement. :p

BTW, when I first bolted on my blower I was hitting mid 12's at around 115 mph (damn traction). And I paid alot less than $3700 bucks.

i know that's from stillens web page directly but that's gotta be total bullshit. Ceasar'sChariot(a maxima owner on these boards) has timeslips of 14.1 with just bolt ons. search his name and visit his cardomain site if you wanna verify it.
Opps...you forgot to mention..... he shaved off a couple hundred pounds. Is that a bolt on or bolt off??

Ummmm here's his "interior"
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/5/web/341000-341999/341792_116.jpg

Cripes if you're going to tell someone about a car running XYZ with just bolt ones you really need to mention the car is totally stripped.

Holy smokes. My friend's 240Z has more interior than that, and it runs 7.40s in the 1/4.

no, you're twisting what you saw on the web page to suit your argument. does that car even have a driver's seat? go to page 6 of his car domain site and read why his car is in that condition. he was awaiting a transmission and was prepping his car, then he removed the rest for the fuck of it.
quote:
"Awaiting a clutch / transmission replacement. I got bored just looking at the Chariot and ended up taking every single thing out of the girl. The end result was a completely gutted Maxima."

a little further down it reads:
quote:
"After removing all of the interior. The thought crossed my mind to take the Chariot to the track like this just once. By removing the interior carpet (17 lbs.) and passenger side seat (25 lbs.) the Chariot would be another 42 lbs lighter on race day!"

a lot of the "weight reduction" he has done are typical bolt on mods that happen to be made of a lighter weight metal so he listed it under weight reduction; headers, downpipe, underdrive pulley, reear section exhaust, cat. add up the other stuff, and it's another 150 lbs or so. so add on a couple .10's of a second, it's still fast.

Well...I'm sure he put his drivers seat in, LOL! But I'll bet he shaved off 300 pounds, well worth 3 or 4 tenths in the 1/4 on that car. Looking at his mods overall the 14.1-14.4 he runs make sense, but it sure seems like a lot of f'ing around for a 14 second car.

no, you're twisting what you saw on the web page to suit your argument. does that car even have a driver's seat? go to page 6 of his car domain site and read why his car is in that condition. he was awaiting a transmission and was prepping his car, then he removed the rest for the fuck of it.
quote:
"Awaiting a clutch / transmission replacement. I got bored just looking at the Chariot and ended up taking every single thing out of the girl. The end result was a completely gutted Maxima."

a little further down it reads:
quote:
"After removing all of the interior. The thought crossed my mind to take the Chariot to the track like this just once. By removing the interior carpet (17 lbs.) and passenger side seat (25 lbs.) the Chariot would be another 42 lbs lighter on race day!"

a lot of the "weight reduction" he has done are typical bolt on mods that happen to be made of a lighter weight metal so he listed it under weight reduction; headers, downpipe, underdrive pulley, reear section exhaust, cat. add up the other stuff, and it's another 150 lbs or so. so add on a couple .10's of a second, it's still fast. Ummm...no you twisted his words... he stripped the interior, minus the carpet and passenger seat which went back in.

his total weight reduction was listed at 285 pounds.

here's the list:
Corbeau Seats - 45 lbs
Lighter rim/tire combo replaced stock - 32 lbs (320 lb chassis) -ricer math
Remove back seat - 30 lbs
Remove spare - 28lbs
Lightweight battery - 20 lbs
CF hood - 17 lbs
Added aftermarket ypipe - 15lbs
Bose speakers - 12 lbs
Stock seat belts - 12 lbs
Floor mats - 9 lbs
Replace stock manifold with Cattman headers - 9 lbs
Kenwood receiver - 8 lbs
Aftermarket catback - 7 lbs
Gutting trunk (cardboard,carpet, everything) - 6lbs
Removed metal plate behind back seat - 6 lbs
Rear door panels - 6 lbs
Jack and metal holder - 5 lbs
Antenna - 4.5 lbs
Replaced cat conv w/ test pipe - 4 lbs
Rear deck 4 lbs
Underdrive Pulley - 3 lbs
Owners manual -1 lbs


Total Weight Reduction - 283.5 pounds

Weight Reduction Mods I can do:

While I have not attempted these last two at the track. Im tempted to do so, just once. Another 42 lbs off the car would be very nice !

Interior Carpet - 17 lbs
Passenger Side Seat (Corbeau Clubman) - 25 lbs

i understand that he did some weight reduction but things like the underdrive pulley, headers, cat, cat-back, downpipe, etc aren't weight reduction mods in particular, they're bolt ons that happen to be lighter. the jack and spare tire anyone would take out of their car on track day, floormats too i suppose. i'm just saying that his car does not look like you tried to portray it.

The SS/WS6 auto's will be faster due to the standard 3:23 gears versus 2:73 for the other models. But I believe all 6 speeds got 3:42 gears so the 6 speed models are on equal footing.

3.23's could have been had on the z28 A4's. They weren't standard, but they were available as an option. My z28 has the 3.23's as well as the aluminum driveshaft. In the end, the SS's and Ws6's weren't really any faster, yet there's perception that they're a good bit faster than z28's and formulas. Seriously, i've seen this on almost every board i've posted on.

Why does everything think the SS's and Ws6's are any faster than z28's and formulas??? :nono:

Everyone that doesn't have any knowledge about LS1's assumes the WS6/SS have more HP. That is incorrect.

3.23's could have been had on the z28 A4's. They weren't standard, but they were available as an option. My z28 has the 3.23's as well as the aluminum driveshaft. In the end, the SS's and Ws6's weren't really any faster, yet there's perception that they're a good bit faster than z28's and formulas. Seriously, i've seen this on almost every board i've posted on. I know you could order the option.

It would be interesting to know how many were optioned with the 3:23.

I know several folks with Z28's autos and all of em have the standard 2:73 which makes the car about .2 to .3 slower in the 1/4 from what I've recently seen at the track.

Everyone that doesn't have any knowledge about LS1's assumes the WS6/SS have more HP. That is incorrect.I'm not sure how effective the hood scoops are on SS/WS6 but I would hope you'd see 3-5 HP at WOT at 100+ MPH. No biggie though.

Everyone that doesn't have any knowledge about LS1's assumes the WS6/SS have more HP. That is incorrect.well go to any car realted web site(edmunds, carstats, autotrader, etc) and that's how they are portrayed. edmunds.com has a z28 listed at 305hp and an SS of the same year at 325 hp.

well go to any car realted web site(edmunds, carstats, autotrader, etc) and that's how they are portrayed. edmunds.com has a z28 listed at 305hp and an SS of the same year at 325 hp.Correct. That is why you have to dig and find facts out about cars, as magazines/internet/posted specs mean little.

If you're going to talk about a certain car you need some facts, not just a quick Google search.

Long but related story.

6 months ago I was in the market for a brand new car. Short list ended up being EVO/STI/GTO/Cobra/G35. I did my home work on all of em, drove several of each, visited forums for each car, went to the local track to see if any were running there and what they had and ran.

My conclusions were:

EVO- pretty much no surprises here as I know AWD, I've had my Talon for 12 years now. I decided I don't like the looks, 4 doors and the clutch in em is a weak point, I'm not willing to do a clutch on a brand new car.

STI, same deal as EVO, but instead of clutch, detonation issues bothered me. Yeah they're supposedly solved now but guess what, the car feels lower on power for 2005.

For around $30k for each of the above I decided they wern't worth it new considering the speeds I've gotten out of my Talon over the years.

GTO, I didn't like the looks, it felt underpowered, and at the time there were no deals being made so it was way over priced IMO.

Cobra 03-04- very fast car, sloppy feeling crappy chassis. Some possible serious reliability issues, TOB, heads, tick issues. Too few of em out there with too few miles on em to decide on a car that has a new motor setup that only was produced for 2 years. I don't need the headaches.

G35 2 door, very nice car, needs another 40-50 HP and the AWD of the 4 door.

I gave up for a month and was waiting for 05's to come out when I saw a 2002 T/A WS6 up the street for sale, I test drove it and decided this was the route to go. Did my research, here's where this relates folks....

Found out basically all 1998-2002 LS1 F bodys were pushing close to 350 HP, the 305-325(345 for Firehawk)HP ratings were typical GM fudge.

Also found out these cars are faster than amost any other muscle car ever made. They were consistently showing up in the top 15 of the 50 fastest muscle cars ever lists with 13.0-13.2@107 MPH times. Folks...when you're knocking on 12's@107MPH stock that's fast for a muscle car.

I ended up with my slightly used 2001 SS, 3,000 miles, fully loaded, T tops 7/70 warranty for $19k. The car runs 13.1's easy all day and has run a best of 13.0, near bone stock.

Moral of this long and drawn out story? you need to do some real life research before you assume you have the facts, googling will only get you the partial story.

And the fact is the 1998-2002 LS1 F bodys were some of the fastest muscle cars ever to be produced. No fluff, no BS here, just facts.

You forgot to mention the downside of the LS1 with the piston slap and the supposed block problem being completely aluminum and weaker than its Cast Iron counterpart even though it is suppose to be a strong block but critics say only time will tell.

The block is PLENTY stong for quite a bit more HP than it's stock output. Piston slap is a minor issue at best, engines are not self distructing. There's folks with 150,000 miles and more with no rebuild.

The block is PLENTY stong for quite a bit more HP than it's stock output. Piston slap is a minor issue at best, engines are not self distructing. There's folks with 150,000 miles and more with no rebuild.
Block strength shows itself when it comes time for a rebuild (and they have only been in production for 7 years in the Vette and 6 in the F-body most cars havn't broken 85 K yet).and while you might not mind piston slap and GM might claim its fine I wouldn't be so fast to buy a car that is known for the pistons slapping against the cylinder walls on cold starts just my 2 cents though

Block strength shows itself when it comes time for a rebuild (and they have only been in production for 7 years in the Vette and 6 in the F-body most cars havn't broken 85 K yet).and while you might not mind piston slap and GM might claim its fine I wouldn't be so fast to buy a car that is known for the pistons slapping against the cylinder walls on cold starts just my 2 cents though A quick poll of folks who know the block have told me it's easily good for upwards of 1000 HP. If folks are getting 150,000 miles( and I've seen 3 personally with 125,000+)without a rebuild I'd say there's not many serious issues, eh? Although it may or may not hold up past 200,000 miles or a few rebuilds I certainly don't need or care if it does. There's plenty of folks running forced induction on em with good results too. Overall it's more than adequate for all but extreme uses it would seem.

A quick poll of folks who know the block have told me it's easily good for upwards of 1000 HP. If folks are getting 150,000 miles( and I've seen 3 personally with 125,000+)without a rebuild I'd say there's not many serious issues, eh? Although it may or may not hold up past 200,000 miles or a few rebuilds I certainly don't need or care if it does. There's plenty of folks running forced induction on em with good results too. Overall it's more than adequate for all but extreme uses it would seem.
Well I have heard from folks because of the high compression ratio that nothing over 6 PSI of boost is recommended and that the LS1 is a good engine naturally asprirated but shouldn't be used with big blower's or Turbo's without some internal changes but just what I heard

Well I have heard from folks because of the high compression ratio that nothing over 6 PSI of boost is recommended and that the LS1 is a good engine naturally asprirated but shouldn't be used with big blower's or Turbo's without some internal changes but just what I heard
Certainly you can't go boost crazy with the stock compression, but 6 PSI adds A LOT of HP to these cars. There's an unusual rear of the car mount turbo kit from STS that adds 100+ HP with about 5 psi and all reports are very positive about the kit.