thoughts on racism

[taranaki]

There's be a fair bit of racism in my neighbourhood just lately over some misguided attemts to extort money from a film crew working on location.Using the much-overplayed 'cultural sensitivity' card,a couple of opportunists are trying to haul themselves onto the gravy train by making mischievous claims based on the distant past...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2186387a11,00.html

I guess I could consider myself lucky to be part of the ethnic majority in this country,and articles like this one http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/0....ap/index.html

tend to reinforce that view.I work with a very diverse range of people,and have learned a lot from them.Ten years ago,I may have found terms like 'sand nigger' acceptable,but thesedays I do not.Is it just my imagination,or is racism becoming more prevalent lately?

[pontiactrac]

where did that come from?:smoker2:

[darkness]

In regards to the stuff here in NZ.

I think they need to burn the Treaty take the land and say stuff them all.

I have lost all tolerance towards iwi's(tribes) now. Yes some of them may be good but some of them keep trying to extort money out of people for "beliefs" that they have.

It's time for this shit to end. The govt needs to stop giving them anything at all.

[YogsVR4]

I'm not sure if racism is more prevelent today then in the past. In general I think more people are concientious about it now. With more and more diverse people moving into areas where they weren't before, we may see more and more. Its one thing to say you're (third person - nobody here) not a racist, but its another to prove it when a different race moves into the neighborhood.

[Toksin]

To the Kiwis: Remember that thing about the taniwha a few months back?

To the uninformed: A taniwha (Ta-nee-fa) is like this spirit that lives on the bends of the Waikato river (correct me if I'm wrong)...basically the tribe up there said the taniwha doesn't want them to build a highway at this spot...so apparently they just paid them and then they said "OK!"...now, if I'd gone and said, God doesn't want you to build this here, they would've laughed and me and run me down with a bulldozer...

[NSX]

What's this kiwi thing about?

[taranaki]

Originally posted by Toksin
To the Kiwis: Remember that thing about the taniwha a few months back?

To the uninformed: A taniwha (Ta-nee-fa) is like this spirit that lives on the bends of the Waikato river (correct me if I'm wrong)...basically the tribe up there said the taniwha doesn't want them to build a highway at this spot...so apparently they just paid them and then they said "OK!"...now, if I'd gone and said, God doesn't want you to build this here, they would've laughed and me and run me down with a bulldozer...

Here's an article by the BBC on the subject.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/2397707.stm

As I understand it,the matter has been resolved,and no money was paid to the local Maori.A stretch of the highway has been realigned to lessen the impact on the sensitive site.

Misinformation about Maori cultural issues,and bogus claims relating to Maori heritage only serve to damage race relations in New Zealand.If the press were a bit lighter on the sensationalism,and more accurate and balanced in their reporting,we wouldn't have nearly as much racial tension.


As for the Treaty Of Waitangi,it is very much like a brain-dead accident victim on a life support machine.It costs a fortune to run,sucks up public funds that are needed for more worthwhile causes,and will never resolve anything,but nobody is brave enough to pull the plug and admit that it's all over.

[tazdev]

my thoughts on the treaty of waitangi.


If the Maoris want "their" land back then the European settlers should take back ALL (and I maen ALL) that they brought to the country (cars, power, bricks, etc) away from the Maoris and see how long they last.


The treaty is not worth the piece of paper it was written on. What good is a document that the maori translation of it is quite different to the European version?.







And NO I am not racist I hate everyone equally

[taranaki]

Originally posted by tazdev

If the Maoris want "their" land back then the European settlers should take back ALL (and I maen ALL) that they brought to the country (cars, power, bricks, etc) away from the Maoris and see how long they last.


The treaty is not worth the piece of paper it was written on. What good is a document that the maori translation of it is quite different to the European version?.

Classic example of how this obsolete piece of paper divides,rather than unites us.The world has moved on so far since 1840 that the Treaty has no relevance any more.England is no longer the colonial ruler of New Zealand,and the Maori have integrated more or less completely int the westernized lifestyle and live their day-to-day lives in much the same way as any other contemporary society.Maoiri and non-maori have interbred to the point where mostpeople who claim to be maori could just as rightfully claim to be of European descent..It was a contract made between some,but not all, Maori,and the head of state of England.All of the original people that the contract was intended to serve have long since died,and the world has moved on.The sooner New Zealand becomes a republic,ditches the treaty and drafts a constitution based on the future rather than the past,the better.

[boingo82]

Other Kiwis are reported to be concerned about images of Taranaki/Mt Egmont being used in the film.

Mr. T...Every time it says something about "filming in Taranaki" I have a hard time keeping a straight face.


Unfortunately I am lacking the insight that those of you residing in New Zealand have on this subject of Maoris' tribal rights... However, speaking from a generalized perspective, I think that lately, there have been a lot more cases of people buckling to minorities' absurd demands for fear of appearing 'racist'. I also think that this problem will be lessening over the next few hundred years as people interbreed more, because the lines between race will be much less defined and it will be harder for anyone to play the race card. I personally dislike race being a question anywhere, from the census to college admissions forms, to the ACTs. If they don't ask, then it's much harder to discriminate, no matter whom they're discriminating against.

[taranaki]

Originally posted by boingo82


Mr. T...Every time it says something about "filming in Taranaki" I have a hard time keeping a straight face.

endoscopy?

[tazdev]

Originally posted by boingo82

... However, speaking from a generalized perspective, I think that lately, there have been a lot more cases of people buckling to minorities' absurd demands for fear of appearing 'racist'.

ahhh yes the term I like to use is "reverse racism".

I have encountered times when an aplicant for a job was declined because they were "not an ethnic minority". The company didn't want to appear racist, obviously this isn't strictly a New Zealand thing then

[speediva]

Originally posted by tazdev


ahhh yes the term I like to use is "reverse racism".

I have encountered times when an aplicant for a job was declined because they were "not an ethnic minority". The company didn't want to appear racist, obviously this isn't strictly a New Zealand thing then

That happens all the time here in Admissions to Uni. Two equal students will apply, and the minority will get in b/c of the "quota" for minority education. It gets worse, but I don't want fingers pointed at me right now....

[replicant_008]

On one hand we have in the blue corner, the view that some in the media and the community have chosen where they paint the 'tribal representatives' as some sort of extortionists.

In the red corner, you could also possess the understanding of the history and significance of Mount Taranaki to the kaumatua.

I'm not going to paint sides but I am going to give you some context.

Now for those who aren't aware - in 1840 the British signed a treaty with the Maori people that gave the Maori protection and rights as British subjects in return for sovereignty and protection. This is the Treaty of Waitangi.

The British sought to purchase land from the Maori for the incoming settlers from Europe. Private ownership in land was an alien concept to the Maori who held the land as having mystical importance and were very reluctant to relinquish it.

In particular, the very fertile land around Mount Taranaki was sought after. It looked ideal for agricultural farming but the local maori weren't interested in selling the land. So the colonialists took up arms and together with the rule of musket and sword, acquired vast tracts of land through confiscation and other means in the region.

They also displaced the local people and then proceeded to slash and burn the vegetation for resowing to grasslands. Which devasted the food sources and traditional homelands of the people. The worst incident was probably @ Parihaka where Maori employing passive resistance were massacred by colonial troops.

It was only recently in the 1990s that the past injustices were acknowledged by the Crown and land still in Crown ownership was transferred back to the rightful owners due to the illegal method of acquisition along with some compensation and importantly an apology.

The kaumatua (the elders) of the tribe believe that the mountain is a sacred place and with significant cultural significance. To some degree, you can understand in the 150 odd years since all of this stuff that particularly with many pieces of legislation in New Zealand acknowledging the rights of iwi (the local people) that you do need to consult the iwi with regard to these issues.

The real hard thing having been in the situation where the filmmakers and road builders have been in - is that the representation of the iwi is fragmented and to a large extent self-appointed. It can be frustrating, expensive and fruitless but there are plenty of other folk who have stuffed perfectly good projects with their demands too - I won't even start on the mess with ALPURT phase 1B, the North Shore Busway or the realignment of SH18.

The taniwha issue was related to interests of the iwi in the alignment of the road in the Long Swamp construction zone. That's their right under the Treaty and the rights recognised under the Resource Management Act.

I'm going to guess that there was some underlying issue which the iwi wanted addressed but chose to use the taniwha issue to get dialogue with the government roading body TRANSIT to establish what it wanted changed. It's not my culture but someone obviously within the iwi recognised some cultural significance regarding the site.

I'm not disagreeing with T - just trying to balance the coverage. The media likes soft targets.

Positive Action...

As for positive discrimination... hmmmm the jury's out on that. But a level playing field assumes that we all have the same opportunities to enter educational institutions - which isn't the case in reality. Now what the well-intended legislators and regulators would like to do is that they have identified a group that is under-represented in the course and elected to quota additional entrants from that group into a course.

For instance, if you live in a 8 or 9th decile area (ie you live in the 10-20% poorest areas by household income) the schools academic rating is usually proportionally worse. Kids from poor homes ain't by definition any less intelligent and studies/results from transferring intelligent kids from these areas in 1 and 2 decile area schools have demonstrated that given a break these kids can excel in their studies far better than their local schools.

Now those students who enter under the quota programmes still have to pass the course and perform to the same academic standards as everyone else doing the course. So what it supposed to do is provide access to the learning nothing more so that part of the playing level is a bit more level.

Having known a few folk who entered under the quota, they are some of the hardest working, most stressed and grateful students who've walked up the aisle in the Town Hall to graduate. They have to work harder than anyone else because of the relative deficiencies in their education.

Is that so wrong as well? Absurd? I don't know about that either. Most of the time a lot of the ethnic groups DON'T want the quotas because they believe it reflects on the students who do get through the system.

Another argument you could also put is are academic grades the best way to select students? Maybe, maybe not - you are effectively discriminating on the ability to perform in examinations not on their total potential as a medical practioner, surgeon or specialist based on academic performance which isn't in itself a particularly good indicator of on the job performance.

In my experience as a manager, just because someone is an A grade student doesn't mean that I'll select them to work for me. I have candidates for jobs I offer that have great academic qualifications - doesn't necessarily mean I'll employ them - there's a whole pile of things that matter like attitiude, experience, personality and energy.

[Diesel2NR]

My dad has a useless degree in chemical engineering. This is mainly because he is white and the chemical companies around here have quotas. When he was applying when I was born (he had a kid now and had to get a job), he applied everywhere. Only one replied, and it was just to tell him that no one was going to hire him because the government had imposed the quotas on them. They said, "Mr. Perdue, I'm sorry, but we can give you a job because we only have 9 positions to fill. Now, I understand that you have a 4 year degree, but we have to hire nine people only. Seven of them have to be black, 1 has to be mexican, and the other has to be a woman." He still remembers those words, mainly because he could be making 4x what he is now. Reverse Racism indeed. And my economics teacher says that it is the white man's fault that the african american are poor. Stupid shit.