Precursors to Engineering?

[Dyno247365]

What kind of math do I need and physics? Can you give me an idea of how I use those principles as an engineer? Where do I really start? Is it a fun job? Should I REALLY love math?

[GreyGoose006]

you dont have to love math, but physics is a must, and high level calc and whatever is also required.
i LOVED my physics classes. i think that ws the big thing.

[2.2 Straight six]

you need maths becase you'll be dealing with a lot of numbers in engineering, and you'll need to work a lot of stuff out.

you need physics because you need the understanding of forces and so on, and their impact on what you're working on, how to get around the effects of some things and so on.

[bluevp00]

Math is a really large component in physics, and a decent math education is absolutley critical for engineering. So don't skimp on the math courses in school, take challenging ones. But for automobile engineering, physics is an absolute must, along with a bit of chemistry.

[knorwj]

You need math for physics and you need physics for engineering.

Some courses I'd suggest are Calculus 1-3, differential equations, All basic physics courses, Then try some more specialized physics courses like quantum, electronics and circuits etc. I would also recomend some basic programming classes in case you ever need to make a program to run specific calculations etc for you. It can save alot of time.


Thats about all I can think of off the top of my head I haven't been into that stuff in about 4 years. I was an engineering major but fell 1 semester behind in my math classes. This in turn made my physics classes hell and I wound up dropping engineering. It can be fun depending on the job you get.

My best suggestion is to study hard and do as many homeworks, examples as you can. Just like everything else practice makes perfect, the more you work at it the more easily things will come to you. If you start blowing off homeworks etc you will become lost very fast.

Goodluck with it, I wish I had stuck to it.


~Will

[GreyGoose006]

good point.
comp sci is important too.
learn C++ or java if possible.
its amazing the things you can program

[redstang423]

The answer to your question depends on the branch of engineering you want to go into. I'm going to assume Mechanica since you are on an automotive forum.

I am in my senior year working towards my mechanical engineering degree, so I will tell you what I've experienced so far. Any accredited program will require you to take Calculus 1-3, Differential equations, and calculus-based physics. Once you actually get into the real engineering stuff, all you really need to know 98% of the time is your basic algebra and basic physics. The other two percent of the time you'll need to be able to solve basic differential questions. Most of the equations you will use, at least at higher levels, were DERIVED using differential equations, but either the general solutions are all readily available (requiring algebra) or the equations have been simplified to get rid of the differential equations.

Besides the courses I listed above, all accredited programs (you do NOT want to go to a school that doesn't have an accredited program) will make you learn almost every aspect of mechanical engineering, plus some that you don't think relates. We've taken several courses dealing with electricity and electrical engineering, but you end up needing those to understand machine controls. You'll learn all types of thermodynamics and heat transfer (read: basic engine design), and LOTS about how materials work.

As far as programming, you don't need much. Most programming based courses are electives, and much of the required programming isn't material you could learn and understand without the proper education. I haven't been required to learn any C++ or Java, nor have I found any instances where it would be of much use. If you are going to learn a language, learn Visual Basic, and learn how to use it with Excel. It makes many engineering problems MUCH easier, and its given me a huge advantage over other people in classes and so far in my job search.

Through my internships, I definately have enjoyed what I've done as a mechanical engineer. You can really do anything with the degree, from designing cars to missiles and defense equipment, to optimizing manufacturing machines.

-Jeff

[KiwiBacon]

Everything in engineering school is based around maths.

I took a composites course because it sounded interesting.
It wasn't.
It was just another excuse to ram matrix algebra down our throats.

Having taken that course, I'm a whole lot less enthusiastic about composites. To the point of avoiding buying structural parts made from composites (I have to conceded with tyres though).

Keep in mind that if you are excellent at maths, you'll survive engineering school and come out with very good grades.
But you'll make a crappy engineer if you have no mechanical aptitude or experience.
The fact you're asking this question on a car site suggests that probably won't be a problem.

[ShadowWulf2K]

Wow, redstang pretty much wrote exactly what I was going to post. And as far as being good at math and physics go, I'm no natural, but I am doing well in mechanical engineering, so you do not need to be a math whiz or anything like that. (I sure ain't!) One thing redstang mentioned was internships. I've done these as well and they go a long way towards helping both in terms of your education and in terms of networking to find possible employment. Having practical experience in engineering is gold. Knowing how to derive all sorts of equations and memorizing formula's doesn't mean much compared to simply knowing how to apply what you've learned. Some good advice I once got was, "A good engineer doesn't need to know everything, he just needs to know where to look for the information he needs and how to apply it."

[curtis73]

Well, I'll chime in on the other end of the spectrum as a backyard automotive engineer If you're looking at being an automotive engineer........

I'm an engineer wannabe. I took up through calc 4 which I viewed as a basis for understanding engineering. By itself, calc is more of a course in making you think. There is a lot of calc used in engineering, but I don't use it at all. What calc taught me was abstract mathematical thought. If nothing else, it gave me a clear representation of concepts like exponential forces vs. linear progressions, etc. You'd be surprised by how many people don't understand the concept of exponential rates. You might hear things like "coefficient of drag is a function of the square of your speed." To most people that means drag gets bigger the faster you go. After you take calculus you'll understand that what it means is doubling your speed squares the amount of drag. There is a lot more to calculus than that, but in my world of backyard automotive engineering, understanding the concept of how rod length affects piston acceleration is something I couldn't have fully grasped without calculus. That is not to say you NEED calculus to be a backyard engineer, its just that its rare that people really grasp those concepts without it. Of course there are also those who take calc and still don't get it.

I also say that a KEY ELEMENT (pun intended) of automotive engineering is Chem 1 and 2 with labs. Nothing will jump start your automotive knowledge more than understanding Boyle's gas laws, the concept of energy states, atomic physics, activation energy, electricity, the works. Once you take chem you'll start to laugh at people who suggest the "water car" and you'll understand why I hate those wasteful hybrids. You'll also understand why I hate it when people suggest that adding water to combustion gives it more oxygen. grrr.

I also suggest some self-taught metallurgy. Chem should teach you about the different characteristics like malleability, memory, elasticity, but knowing why some engine parts are cast iron, why some are forged steel, and why some are billet aluminum will help you a lot. Knowing what additional nickel, silicon, coke, or molybdenum does to alloys of steel the more you add will be a nice little thing to put in your pocket.

Lastly, read read read. When you find a topic that interests you and find books on it. I've been known to read 860-page automotive engineering textbooks that only cover one topic. I get so into something and I just can't quit until I've absorbed all I can. I think the key to being a good automotive person is understanding how and why, down to the atomic level inside every automotive component. No offense to anyone in the repair business, but anyone can learn the proper way to install piston pins or rebuild a transmission (which I cannot, by the way) but I understand why a 5-gear planet set is stronger than a 3-gear in a transmission, and I think that is a more important basis. I feel confident in my choices. I don't know how to assemble a transmission, but I know what parts I want in it and why My next step is to learn those procedures and the proper ways to do things. I've built some engines now with pretty good success. My next big things are applying what I know to rear axles, transmissions, and body work.

Only problem is... my brain is full.

[Steel]

It's hard too. Your first semester you're going to think "goddamn this sucks, this is hard as hell! But It'll get easier as the semesters pass" Well, it doesn't .

I took ME at a university aobut 4 years ago and then dropped it a year and a half in to become an auto tech. Worst mistake ever. Guess what - I'm back in ME again, and remembering how much workload it is. I need to quit my job now becasue working + phyiscs 2 calc 2 and chemistry just isn't possible for me at least. Maybe if there were 37 hours in a day.

Anyhoo, like the guys were saying, you don't have to be a math genius, but you DO have to understand what you're learning. You have to know where when and how to apply the mathematical, physical, and chemical fundamentals that they're teaching you. That's 60% of the major, is learning how to problem-solve strategically. The next 20% is learning how to time manage (ESPECIALLY if you have 5 or 6 classes in a semester). The last 20 is the acutal material. Maybe less. Every equasion that they'll teach you one could probably fit on 4 or 5 pages of paper in a normal font, but knowing how to use them is what takes the 4 or 5 years of uni.

Lastly, you will have no life if you want to succeed, and a corallary to that is that if you DO have a life, you won't succeed. It's really REALLY easy to fall into parties and screwing around and women when you're at college, so try your best to avoid it. Try to make friends with the other engineering majors so you guys can study together which will help you understand better and save time in the long run.

Now that i think about it, calculus isn't all that hard. Calc 2 is the worst because its a LOT of memorization of stuff, but once you have a firm grip on calc 1 and 2, then, calc 3, diff. eq.'s and linear algebra aren't all that bad. This is what i heard from just aobut all of my engineering buddies.

What is really sucking the goats teet for me now is i forgot my trig and how to add/multiply vectors. Anyone wanna gimme a crash course in those? It's holding me back in my physics course

[GreyGoose006]

just remember that vectors can be added in any order.
if u use this, you can make it easier on yourself by adding the easy ones in first. like counting money. first count $50s then $20s then $10s
you COULD do it in any order, but why?

vectors are a Bitc* tho.

[Steel]

Well I'ts not so much the addition that's getting to me, it's finding the magnitude of the force, which means using trig, which i forgot. I'm trying to relearn it because i KNOW trig isn't hard at all, but for some reason it's just completely escaping me and that's starting to really tick me off.

[Dyno247365]

Originally Posted by knorwj

You need math for physics and you need physics for engineering.

Some courses I'd suggest are Calculus 1-3, differential equations, All basic physics courses, Then try some more specialized physics courses like quantum, electronics and circuits etc. I would also recomend some basic programming classes in case you ever need to make a program to run specific calculations etc for you. It can save alot of time.


Thats about all I can think of off the top of my head I haven't been into that stuff in about 4 years. I was an engineering major but fell 1 semester behind in my math classes. This in turn made my physics classes hell and I wound up dropping engineering. It can be fun depending on the job you get.

My best suggestion is to study hard and do as many homeworks, examples as you can. Just like everything else practice makes perfect, the more you work at it the more easily things will come to you. If you start blowing off homeworks etc you will become lost very fast.

Goodluck with it, I wish I had stuck to it.


~Will

So much to read, and I PROMISE to read it all in time...

Funny you should say that about computers, 'cause I'm a compsci major right now, and have been taking computers since middle school. Computers are the future right? And the school I'm currently attending doesn't offer mech. anything. As soon as I can catch up in math and get the physics I was going to switch over to engineering. My minor is art because I'm good at design but surprisingly, I'm learning some engineering in 3d design class. For instance, just today we watched a video about an environmental artist, Andy Goldsworthy. While he's very much a 'tree-hugger' because he wants to understand nature, he puts together these:



he can build these within a day and it'll withstand any form of weather. There's no bonding agent used at all. There's no smokes and mirrors, it's held together by gravity and good old fashioned trial and error.
He'll never build it with the same design twice, meaning he'll place the stones in different places or find new stronger stones to use, and that's why he's an environmental artist. When I first saw this video, I was thinking he'd make an excellent engineer, if he wasn't one already. He builds stone walls the same way although he gets help from colleagues and coworkers with those.



no clay, glue, bolts, nothing. He knows how the stones hold eachother together, fascinating huh?

(i'll get to replying to your other posts soon, thanks)

[GreyGoose006]

thats cool.
theres a man who is living his dream