new M5 lagging behind RS6, E55 AMG?

[syr74]

Is anyone else kinda dissapointed in what appears to be BMW's latest uber sports sedan before it even debuts? The hp of the new V-10 looks fine, and the seven speed manual should let you take as much advantage as possible from the rev-happy engine. But, a simple rundown of the specs leads one to believe this car wont fare much better from a speed/acceleration standpoint against it's cross-town rivals than the one we have now.

Before I go further let me say I know that sheer power isn't everything. But, I believe it counts for more than BMW is giving credit for in this car. 500hp barely edges out the new E55 with about 30 more ponies, and beats the RS6 by a full 50hp. That sounds fine and dandy until you realize those artificially aspirated motors turn out a hell of a lot more torque than the Beemer does. Both the Audi and Merc are making over 100lb ft more torque at around 2000rpm than the Beemer makes at it's peak! Even with automatics can you say recipe for an ass stompin?

The new 5-Series is not the most beautiful thing to roll down the pipe, and BMW simply cannot rest on it's reputation as the ultimate driver's car forever. In this segment handling is important, but I would skimp a little on ultimate handling long before I would skimp on torque. These cars need to handle well, but if I wanted Lemans in a bottle I sure as hell wouldn't be looking at a mid sized four door. These cars also need to deliver on the highway at speed without flogging the daylights out of them.

That perceived BMW lead looks to be eroding. And, for the first time in a long time I have to say the Beemer would likely fall to third on my list of choices in this segment. Handling in this type of car just doesn't have to be balls to the wall serious. And, with the M5's serious lack of torque respectively it just doesn't look good IMHO.

[Rakshas]

What about weight?

Also I believe this may behave more like the torqueless wonders such as the s2000

[flylwsi]

they don't have an official weight for the m5 yet.
autoweek was guessing 3900 or so lbs.

you can't really make any claims, since no one has driven/tested it yet...

but it IS ugly.

[Demon_Mustang]

I don't know, I know torque is important and all, but sometimes horsepower alone could fare pretty well. I mean, my car has 300 lb-ft of torque stock, yet it won't even be able to compete with a 360 Modena which actually has less torque. I guess we'll have to wait until people actually drive and test the car against its rivals. See just how well the Ultimate Driving Machine does against them.

[DinanM3_S2]

If BMW follows their design philosophy, the new M5 should be much lighter then the RS6 and the E55. The E39 M5 stood up pretty well against the others, and had just under 400 bhp (C&D said RS6 #1, E39 M5 #2, E55 #3). Even if Bangle designed the body, I doubt the car will be anything but the best in its class. BMW has historically set the benchmark that all other companies try to achieve, and it took Audi and Merc a while to get the E55 and the RS6 into competition. SMG is better then any transmission either Audi or Merc has ever built (except possibly DSG).

I honestly dont beleive BMW will release a new car, especially an M car, that will not just beat, but demolish all competitors.

Design is a matter of opinion I guess, I sure as hell liked the E39 5-series alot, but the new one isnt all that bad, especially with the M style body design.

[Janet Reno]

As far as I know, the latest BMW designer of the 5, 6, and 7 series has been "down graded" if you know what I mean...the sales in all of the new models compared to their last incarnations have been more than lacking. Personally, I'm not too fussy about the freshest designs BMW has been sporting in the three models listed, but I certainly like the old stuff- mmm, 3 series goodness.

[Demon_Mustang]

Hey, it appears Janet Reno has an interest in cars...

[DinanM3_S2]

As far as I know, the latest BMW designer of the 5, 6, and 7 series has been "down graded" if you know what I mean...the sales in all of the new models compared to their last incarnations have been more than lacking. Personally, I'm not too fussy about the freshest designs BMW has been sporting in the three models listed, but I certainly like the old stuff- mmm, 3 series goodness.

Huh? Whats any of this have to do with the m5? Bangle (the ex-BMW head designer) was actually promoted, and is therefore not longer in charge of styling. Stick to the topic, and think before you post you crazy liberal

[Janet Reno]

Oh...I thought I read in the National Post or some car magazine he got the opposite of a promotion. My post had to do with a M5... did you see the part where I put "5"? As in BMW 5? Where I had "BMW" and "5" in the same sentence, possibly meaning I was talking about the car?

[MITSU-EVO]

What are the weights of the RS6 and E55 AMG? Are they really lighter than the M5 or just about the same?

[skubydobdo]

There aint no way the new M5 will be outdone.. and IMO, the new 7 series is one of the craziest cars on the road. Speaking form experience, just to get one started and then get it into drive is unique. You must fully insert a strange key (similar to Benz but rectangle shape) fully into the dash, hit a start button, then flip a small lever on the right side of the steering column up or down to select a gear. Really strange.

[VQuick]

An issue I haven't seen mentioned yet is that BMW tends to underrate their cars sometimes. I also thought that the M5 was supposed to have 550hp. Guess I was wrong.

The next RS6 may get a version of the Lamborghini Gallardo's V10, according to the British mag evo.

[V8slayer]

I've heard all kinds of figures. BMW are playing their cards close to their chest to keep the competition guessing.

The engine size was a speculation until recently. I've seen 5L, 5.5L and even 5.8L quoted. The power output is anywhere from 500-550bhp. But I think the final figures are 5L, 500bhp.

BTW, I don't think the M5 will lose anything to the RS6 or the E55. The quoted weight is about 1700kg. And the 7 speed SMG III gear box sounds amazing.

[Janet Reno]

Hopefully this naturally aspired engine will perform. Knowing BMW I'm doubting there will be much trouble in the performance area though. To me, it's like a cheap way out going the turbo route for a car of this level and cost, wouldn't want to see BMW have to do that

I've heard 530bhp being tossed around a few times from a 5L V10, though if there's a 5.8L V10 I would hope they could pull over 550 out of that at least.

[crayzayjay]

Complaining that 500bhp is not enough strikes me as somewhat ridiculous. 500bhp is serious power! The new M5 packs an extra hundred horses and isnt expected to be any heavier than the old one (1700kg), which wasnt exactly lacking in pace.
The M5's emphasis will be on driver control and involvement, unlike the Audi and Merc, and should still be faster in a straight line (lower weight & short gearing offsetting lower torque). Those two have to pile on the power because they cant compete in other areas with the M5.