Stroked B16 questions

[EG_Civic]

How much of an increase do you think you will see be stroking a B16 out to 1.8 liters. Would it out preform a B18? My stock motor is burning oil right now, so Im really thinking about my eventual motor swap. Right now, Im kinda set on a 96 spec JDM ITR B18C and eventually after that some forced induction, but Im unsure about engine bay room with the swap AND a blower. Your thoughts?

[liquidflame8]

it should bring your torque up to b18 numbers and hp up a little. if you were to get like a spoon stroker kit or toda it would outperform the stock b18. a lot of people don't think that the ITR motor is a good boost motor. There is enough room for a b series swap turboe'd in the eg

[eckoman_pdx]

Okay, it's nothing to do with THINKING the ITR is not a good motor to boost...it's just fact. You see, high comperssion and turbo's don't mix well under normal conditons. It will usually lead to detonation, which will destory the motor. A naturally asperated (N/A) car uses high compression pistions. With a turbo, low compression is what you want. You are raising the pressure in the cylinder when you boost the motor, the last thing you want is the extra pressure of high c/r pistions throwing it all off and causing detonation. The Type-R has a very high comperssion ratio, 10.6:1. Not good for a turbo'd motor. You'll likly cause pre-detonation boosting it. If you want an N/A car, get a Type-R, they are the best stock N/A motor honda made. If you want to boost your car, Don't waste your money on a type-r. You'll end up to remove the type-r pistions and other type-r parts and put in low compression ones, etc...basically you are removing the type--r parts, what you paid so dearly for out of your pocket, to prep the motor for boost. When all that's done, of course, it's really no longer a type-r, so what you paid for isn't even in the engine bay any longer. The 10.6:1 c/r of a type-r motor is way to high for a turbocharger'd motor. 9.0:1 is more what you want.

As I said, If you REALLY WANT a Type-R motor in there, then build up a N/A motor and forget boost. If you want boost, pic a different motor than the Type-R or the JDM Integra SiR (there GSR, also a 10.6:1 c/r)

The JDM B16A has a 10.4:1c/r, the USDM B16A has a 10.2:1 c/r, the USDM B18C1 (GSR) has a 10.0:1 c/r, and the B18B1 has a most Turbo friendly 9.2:1psi. Due partially to it's lower compression ratio, the B18B1 can handle more boost on stock internals than any of the motors...it can safely handle up to 12psi when tuned correctly.

That being said, you have a 92-95 civic I am guessing from your name. You'll have room for a b-series motor and a turbocharger...though you may want to remove the a/c to give you more room (I have seen it done, swapped and boosted with a/c, though if you are worried about room it will clear up room).

[jcrx]

Originally Posted by eckoman_pdx

Okay, it's nothing to do with THINKING the ITR is not a good motor to boost...it's just fact.

The Type-R has a very high comperssion ratio, 10.6:1. Not good for a turbo'd motor. You'll likly cause pre-detonation boosting it.

The JDM B16A has a 10.4:1c/r, the USDM B16A has a 10.2:1 c/r, the USDM B18C1 (GSR) has a 10.0:1 c/r, and the B18B1 has a most Turbo friendly 9.2:1psi. Due partially to it's lower compression ratio, the B18B1 can handle more boost on stock internals than any of the motors...it can safely handle up to 12psi when tuned correctly.

The ITR's C/R isn't that high it all I mean, it isn't even in hte 11:1's. I have a friend that ran 12.3:1 on pump gas N/A no problem. And the motors design lends to better power production with boost. High flow is what turbo is all about, same as the ITR. Japanese companies have been boosting ITRs since they came out, Apex, Blitz, HKS, to name a few of the bigger ones, and other like C's, +F and Revolution. It is 100% tuning, 100%. The reason everyone sights the LS as being more boost friendly is because as said before, it has a lower C/R, and is more amateur friendly.
Someone that knows what they are doing can easily tune a ITR to 9-10psi, and waylay a LS on 14psi.

[liquidflame8]

yeah eckoman. there are a lot of people with different opinions about everything so that's y i stated the above. the most i've heard was it's not a good idea to boost the ITR compared to other b series motors. but everyones different

[EG_Civic]

total boost list that motors CR at 11.0:1 and twincam lists it at 11.1:1

Ive seen some ITR turbo'd before. I wasnt so much thinking of going turbo but supercharging(I have a thing about turbo spool) the motor. Im still a ways off from doing this swap. I want horsepower(who doesnt?) but I still need to drive the car too. I dont know what I should do.

[liquidflame8]

ITR all motor.

[crxlvr]

with the proper tuning you can safely boost an ITR motor, or any motor with high compression, but most people wont pay for that kind of test and tune, so to be safe they go low compression.

[eckoman_pdx]

Originally Posted by liquidflame8

yeah eckoman. there are a lot of people with different opinions about everything so that's y i stated the above. the most i've heard was it's not a good idea to boost the ITR compared to other b series motors. but everyones different

God damn man, stop jumping on my ass in every f*ckin thread. Sorry to get pissy but damn...Look , I know DAMN WELL HIGH C/R AND BOOST CAN BE MIXED. What do you think a boost RSX-type-S is? However, high c/r means the motor is more prone to detonation if you get a bad tank of gas, it's even slightly out of tune, etc. Most people do not have the skill to mix a high compression ratio and boost. It will likely lead to a blown motor. When people say "isn't a good motor to boost" or "can be boosted to blank psi safly" we mean under normal circumstances by normal people. You have to realize the majority of the people in the world arn't super skilled mechanics and engine builders. 10:6.1 isn't super duper high, but it is pretty high for boost. Go ask any engine builder, any race engine builder. There is a reason it's not recommended. That's not to say it can't be done if you kn ow what you are doing. That's just saying that under normal conditions, it's not something that would be recommended. They will tell you that. I am so sick of your attitude. In a different thread you jumped on JCRX and I for some crap, and now this. If you have something to say, say it without being accusitory and rude. I am sick to death of your "yea guys, stop being asses" attitude. Try reading and learning, not just jumping on peoples asses to look cool. Newsflash, doing that won't earn you any respect on here. People see right through that.

Also, JCRX, I know you used to be in Germany, are you still? Cuz I know the highest octane pump gas there has a higher octane rating than the highest here.

Now,liquidflame8, I asked that because Octane is a motors abilty to resist DETONATION, which is the reason they typicaly say higher c/r and boost don't mix and a super duper high c/r on an N/A car isn't good for the street. Because they are more prone to detonation if even one little thing goes wrong. Now, since Octane is a gasolines abilty to resist detonation, that would help make a difference if that were the case. Either way, a builder skilled in tuning can run a motor safely that most people would blow very quick. I can gather pretty quick his buddy is a very good engine tuner and builder, something not a ton of people are.

[EG_Civic]

whoah chill out man, no need to get worked up. Ive tried to find some other prices on the ITR motor and its kinda high still, Im more than likely going to find a B16 and go from there. Id love to do an ITR motor but Ive got to be realistic with everything that I want to do in mind. I priced a JDM K20 at $8500.00 I knew that would be higher, but I didnt know it would be THAT much.

[jcrx]

Also, JCRX, I know you used to be in Germany, are you still? Cuz I know the highest octane pump gas there has a higher octane rating than the highest here.

Yea, I am still here in Germany,and yes, we have 100 octane at the pump if you want it, but there are a grip of boosted ITRs running around here, and not all of them are buyiong 100 everytime they fill up shizzy is expensive yO!!! But on 93 and good tuning a ITR boosted is going to be fine.

[Jas_M]

Originally Posted by EG_Civic

I priced a JDM K20 at $8500.00 I knew that would be higher, but I didnt know it would be THAT much.

If this is what you're looking for http://www.hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc...age&item=30014
then i just saved you $3K.

[boosted331]

If you want a 1.8L motor, go get a B18 block. If you stroke a B16 to 1.8 liters, you have a bit of a dilemma on your hands. The B16's deck height is .349 inches shorter than the B18's deck height, which means that running an 89MM crank in a B16 block you have to either A) move the piston pin up into the ring package and use a GSR/LS length rod, which can cause oil control problems since the piston pin interects the oil ring, or B) Run a shorter rod with the same piston pin location. Option B is not that big of a deal, people fuss over rod/stroke ratio on motors WAY too much, but if you're going to be boosting the car a B18 is a better choice. More beef under the dome of the piston.

[eckoman_pdx]

Originally Posted by EG_Civic

whoah chill out man, no need to get worked up. Ive tried to find some other prices on the ITR motor and its kinda high still, Im more than likely going to find a B16 and go from there. Id love to do an ITR motor but Ive got to be realistic with everything that I want to do in mind. I priced a JDM K20 at $8500.00 I knew that would be higher, but I didnt know it would be THAT much.

Hey man, I wasn't flipping out and you, or JCRX (he know's that too). I was ticked off at the fact liquidflame8 posted another tack on bashing. He had posted several posted where he made a tack-on "yeah, your wrong comment" and it got annoying. As I said, I know it is POSSIBLE to mix high c/r and boost (and JCRX provided many examples of high c/r on low boost). However, I also wanted to state that for most people (people who can't wrench, tune a car, keep it in tune, don't really know how to work on it or don't know someone to work on it consistently), high c/r and boost can create problem. High c/r and boost is just like all things boost. It's all about fuel delivery and tuning. If the motor gets enough fuel and it tuned right consistently, you should be fine (provided you keep the boost at a safe level for the set-up). However, since high compression and boost mixed can lead to pre-detonation a lot quicker if it's out of tune a bit (and pre-ignition & detonation will destroy a motor), the room for error is smaller than with a lower c/r and boost. Also, 2 other factors involved in pre-ignition & detonation are boost level and octane of the gas. Always get the highest octane gas you can (octane is a gasolines ability to resist detonation). Higher compression creates more heat. More heat can lead to pre0ignition or detonation (or both). Now, throw boost into the mix. With FI, you ARE COMPRESSING MORE AIR into the cylinders, by the very nature of what it is. This, of course, rasies the temperture...greater risk of detonation. Now, if the motor already has a high c/r, throw in a decent amount of boost, and you really have created more heat and a greater chance of detonation. This is where tuning can come into play to help you out. Retarding the timing will help recude the risk or pre-ignition and detonation by changing when the spark plug fires. Also, as said above, run the highest octane gas you can, as octane is a gasolines abilty to resisit deontation. Also, an intercooler for sure...as cooler air entering the motor means a cooler temp, recuding the risk of pre-inginton and detonation (plus, the cooler the air, the more hp you get. Colder air is more dense, you get a 1% gain in hp for every 11.1 degrees you lower the intake temp). Also, if you turn the boost down a few notchs you'll also reisit the risk of and pre-ignition & detonation due to the fact you are forcing less compressed air into the cylinder, meaning lower internal temps (which lower the risk of pre-igintion and detonation; that's why people with lower boost tend to boost a lower/cr motor a little higher, because the lower c/r helps lower the risk of detonation). Remember, if you want a boost the ITR, listen to the signals your motor gives you, keep it tuned correctly all the time, and run the highest octane gas possible. This will help lower the risk of detonation, which is why a higher c/r motor like the ITR is generally considered not the best choice to boost (not saying it can't be done, there's a guy here running around with a boost ITR in a 5th gen hatch running a low psi, not that I think it's a great idea). If you boost a higher c/r motor, just remember, you have less of a margin of error when it comes to gas and tuning before you get detonation. If you can't do it yourself, it'll cost more to keep it in tune, etc. I, as well as a lot of others, wouldn't boost a high c/r motor like a type-r. If you want to, just remember what was said to help you reduce the risk of pre-ignition and/or detonation, because if you do boost it, pre-igniton and/or detonation will be what would kill the motor running that combo.

check out this link here to a thread in the AF engineering/techincal forum to better understand this concpet. It should prove helpful to you and explain these concepts better.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=205404

BTW, JCRX...nice pics in the vtec thread, funny as hell, lol.