Ignition switch not working

[rperre]

Hi I have a really strange problem with my 1985 Trans Am

It's a 5.0 liter V8 with TPI.

When I turn the key Nothing happens, no check lights, no fan starting to run, no radio, NOTHING.
Now here's the strange part, I have a remote controlled automatic starter installed and when I push the button on the remote .. THE CAR WILL START!

I do have power because the interior lights come on, and I can start the car with the remote control, I changed out the neutral safety switch and cleaned the ignition switch that is located on the steering column. I'm running out of options and the book's wiring diagrams don't help much either!

Anybody that knows where to look or where to start?

thanks

rperre

[rperre]

I did check the circuit breakers

[ponchonutty]

Originally Posted by rperre

Hi I have a really strange problem with my 1985 Trans Am

It's a 5.0 liter V8 with TPI.

When I turn the key Nothing happens, no check lights, no fan starting to run, no radio, NOTHING.
Now here's the strange part, I have a remote controlled automatic starter installed and when I push the button on the remote .. THE CAR WILL START!

I do have power because the interior lights come on, and I can start the car with the remote control, I changed out the neutral safety switch and cleaned the ignition switch that is located on the steering column. I'm running out of options and the book's wiring diagrams don't help much either!

Anybody that knows where to look or where to start?

thanks

rperre

Either your igntion switch is bad, the remote start install failed, or your VATS alarm system is failing. That's all that it can be.

[rperre]

Hi, thanks for the reply.

I changed the ignition switch and took the power off the remote starter but that didn't change a thing, VATS is what's left but I don't even know if I have VATS, if I do, how do I go around it or disable it?

rperre

[ponchonutty]

Originally Posted by rperre

Hi, thanks for the reply.

I changed the ignition switch and took the power off the remote starter but that didn't change a thing, VATS is what's left but I don't even know if I have VATS, if I do, how do I go around it or disable it?

rperre

Well, if you have it, it should be just like my WS6 Formula. Look at the ignition key (originals) and see if there is a little black chip just ahead the area you hold onto it. If there's something there, you have VATS.

Take of the bottom part of the dash and you'll see an orange wire comming down the right side of the colum. Inside that, there are 2 24ga. wires. Try to follow that to the plug it plugs into. Unplug it and take a meter accross the 2 prongs when you have your key inserted. What ever ohm it reads should match the "chip" in the key. That's if your car even has it. It should and should be easy to see because of the installer who put in your remote start.

You said you changed the ignition switch. What part did you change? Was it the whole thing, just the part you insert the key into, or the plastic part in the column????

[chcr]

Try this: the actuator rod for the ignition switch runs down the left side of the column. when you turn the key, does this move? I am currently struggling with replacing the rack that moves this rod (please don't ask how it's going). I wonder if this might be your problem too?

[rperre]

to ponchonutty

I changed out the plastic/metal switch that's located on the steering column, not the one you put the key in. I don't think I have VATS because my keys don't have a chip in them.

Is there something on the key switch that could cause this all to happen? Are there wires connected to it?

I'm looking again today to see if I really don't have this VATS you are talking about!

The problem is still there though after replacing the plastic/metal column switch.

And to chcr,

yes the metal rod is moving and it is moving the switch located on the column, it's fairly easy to change this out it just hooks on to the rod and bolts to the steering column!

Thanks for replying guys!

Richard

[ponchonutty]

Originally Posted by rperre

to ponchonutty

I changed out the plastic/metal switch that's located on the steering column, not the one you put the key in. I don't think I have VATS because my keys don't have a chip in them.

Is there something on the key switch that could cause this all to happen? Are there wires connected to it?

I'm looking again today to see if I really don't have this VATS you are talking about!

The problem is still there though after replacing the plastic/metal column switch.

And to chcr,

yes the metal rod is moving and it is moving the switch located on the column, it's fairly easy to change this out it just hooks on to the rod and bolts to the steering column!

Thanks for replying guys!

Richard

Well then the next step is to check the starter wire for output. I think it is either the yellow or purple wire. Should only be 12v when cranking.

[rperre]

I took apart the whole dash today, but I shouldn't have because there is nothing behind it that I can use to trouble shoot, oh well changed out the heater core while I was there anyway!

I measured all the poles of the starter switch (not the key switch, but the column switch) and there is no power on any of these poles, so if I turn the key and the switch works as advertised there is no power to reroute!

So it is before the ignition switch I have to look, the wires however run into a big cable boom and than up and over the steering wheel to the right side of the car, probably to the ECC (computer). If this ECC is blown would I have power to the ignition switch?

The other thing I'm wondering is: if the remote starter is like a seperate ignition system, could it be that the little chip on the bottom of the ignition wire box is broke. (sorry can't find the right name for this box) I remember that a couple of years ago my car died and there was a little chip in there that we replaced (the garage) and it fixed the problem, but I can't remember if I had no power at all or did have power at that time to the ignition key system!

Long text, hope it's clear, thanks for the reply,

Richard

[ponchonutty]

Originally Posted by rperre

I took apart the whole dash today, but I shouldn't have because there is nothing behind it that I can use to trouble shoot, oh well changed out the heater core while I was there anyway!

I measured all the poles of the starter switch (not the key switch, but the column switch) and there is no power on any of these poles, so if I turn the key and the switch works as advertised there is no power to reroute!

So it is before the ignition switch I have to look, the wires however run into a big cable boom and than up and over the steering wheel to the right side of the car, probably to the ECC (computer). If this ECC is blown would I have power to the ignition switch?

The other thing I'm wondering is: if the remote starter is like a seperate ignition system, could it be that the little chip on the bottom of the ignition wire box is broke. (sorry can't find the right name for this box) I remember that a couple of years ago my car died and there was a little chip in there that we replaced (the garage) and it fixed the problem, but I can't remember if I had no power at all or did have power at that time to the ignition key system!

Long text, hope it's clear, thanks for the reply,

Richard

What you mean? Do you mean that there is not any 12v when you crank or there's nothing even with the key to the "tun" position. Not sure if you are talking about VATS or not when you stated about a box. That only messes with the starter itself and nothing else. Actually, you should be able to run a wire to the starter and get it to turn over.

[rperre]

There is no 12V anywhere when I turn my key to ANY position.

The box I'm talking about is the distributor. At the bottom of this, there is a little chip, could this cause all this trouble?

Thanks,

Richard

[FormulaLT1]

One thing you might want to check is where they spliced into your ignition switch for your remote starter the wire on the other end may not be completing a circuit or may have a short. The best way to test this is with a volt meter. But jiggling the wire with the key in the on position should cause the lights to flash on and off if this is the cause. Good Luck, Also that chip is your ignition module, It is not the cause of the problems you are having, it would cause a rough idle, stalling or check engine light. Also you don't have vats , I don't think the Camaro or Firebirds got Vats til 91 or 92

[ponchonutty]

Originally Posted by FormulaLT1

One thing you might want to check is where they spliced into your ignition switch for your remote starter the wire on the other end may not be completing a circuit or may have a short. The best way to test this is with a volt meter. But jiggling the wire with the key in the on position should cause the lights to flash on and off if this is the cause. Good Luck, Also that chip is your ignition module, It is not the cause of the problems you are having, it would cause a rough idle, stalling or check engine light. Also you don't have vats , I don't think the Camaro or Firebirds got Vats til 91 or 92

I 2nd the problem is with the ignition and not the module. You have only a few major wires to check under the column. 1st you will have one or 2 red wires which is constant 12v. If you don't, trace that back. If you do, then turn ignition on, you then should have power to a pink (ignition), orange(acc.) and brown (not all have brown acc. wire). If you have 12v on the red but nothing on the rest, check the switch. If that's ok, then you have to check the yellow or purple wire which is the starter output. That obviously should show 12v when cranking.

Actually, VATS showed it's ugly face in the early 80's on Corvettes then on Fbodies in the mid 80's. I had a '89 Formula and it had VATS of which had failed!!!

[rperre]

I measured all the wires on the ignition switch and there is NO power on the RED wires at all, when I turn the key ofcourse there is no power now because the RED wires don't provide power in the first place, I did try it though, just to check, but nothing!!!

I know it's a strange problem, but I'm about to give it to the garage if I don't have a solution for this. Let me tell you this though:

It all happened when I went from drive to reverse parking, it went dead, I started it with the remote starter and backed up my car, but no power whatso ever on the car when I turned the key. The car was driving poorly, if I hit the gas it would stall on me, I could barely get going, I just assumed it was my fuel filter and already ordered the filter at that time so didn't worry about it. Than this problem came along!
I also remember my car going dead on me when I was still in the USA, about 4 years ago, at that time it was my ignition module, the garage guy tested it and it went bad! I do remeber I took apart the whole steering wheel to see if it was the switch at that time, but can't remember if I had power or not!

Richard

[rperre]

Forgot to ask:

Where are those two red wires going?, I couldn't trace them at all, they just went into a cable boom and up and around the steering wheel to the right side of the car!

Richard