AC Compressor

[12Ounce]

1999 Windstar SEL 3.8. 330k miles. AC system working somewhat ... but not as cold as I like it. Requires several cans of refrigerant a year for topping-off.

The leaking around the shaft seal seems to be especially bad this year. The rest of the system is well maintained (not a simple chore) but the overall performance of the 13 year-old is far from "like new". I decide the compressor is not only leaking, it is no longer "compressing" as it should. Time for a replacement.

New and rebuilt compressors were available at Ford. I chose a new compressor (approx $300) and a new accumulator (approx $115) as well as new O-rings (not used) and in-line orifice (not used). Adding cost of refrigerant, about $500 for parts.

As the system was opened and the oil drained, it became apparent the system was very clean internally. The oil was a clear blue-green with no foreign particles visible. Therefore the orifice and o-rings were not replaced.

After the new parts (thank goodness ...the clutches now come installed on compressors!) were installed and correct oil volume added ... the vacuum pump was used for extensive pump-down. It took hours of running pump, shutting down the valved-off system ... letting system rest under vacuum ... repeating ... to convince me that "all" water vapor was removed. Then the measured refrigerant was dumped in ... hot water was used to encourage the refrigerant to load into the system. (DANGEROUS PRACTICE ... I know!).

I also added a manual shut-off valve to the water hose that connects to back of intake manifold. Now it stays closed for hot weather months.

A 1000 mile vacation trip from Atlanta to St Augustine indicates the replacement compressor is doing super! And with less noise and vibration!

[Ed_Strong]

Pretty "cool" (get it)! lol

Anyway, where are the shots...?

[wiswind]

I am sure that you expected the leak to get worse over time.
I still had the original compressor on my '96 when I sold it with over 229K miles on it.
The only leak that I developed for the refrigerant as a leak in the evaporator coil......inside the passenger compartment.
From a labor standpoint, it would have been cheaper to have had the compressor go.
In Wisconsin, it is not legal for us to work on our own A/C, so one who wishes to get around that has to make a run to Illinois for some refrigerant as it is not sold here to folks without a special license.

I had my local shop do the work....and they did a good job.
They were pleased when I went in and told them that my A/C was cycling and I thought that it had a leak.
They told me that most people need to be conviced that when you need to add refrigerant....it is because it has leaked out.
They put some new stuff in and used a sensor to try to detect any sign of leakage.
No luck, so they filled it and put a dye in it and told me to run it and come back.
I did.....and the dye leakage out the drain line from the passenger compartment gave us the bad news.

[12Ounce]

I have the federal license, but I am still sad to read that Wisconsin is that "big brother"....

[ricebike]

it is not sold here to folks without a special license.

that was for the old R12 refrigerant

the newer R134a doesn't need a special license; heck i got some off from big lots or walmart at the end of last summer season (clearance sale) to stock up!

[tempfixit]

Originally Posted by ricebike

that was for the old R12 refrigerant

the newer R134a doesn't need a special license; heck i got some off from big lots or walmart at the end of last summer season (clearance sale) to stock up!

like wiswind said in wisconsin

[12Ounce]

Even though following the "Montreal Protocol" is a federal EPA mandate .... state jurisdictions were to have some "implementation liberties", IIRC.

[phil-l]

12Ounce -

Out of curiosity, do you have your federal license as part of your professional work, or did you get it for DIY projects? How much training was involved?

I've considered getting a license - but doubt I do this sort of thing often enough to make it worthwhile. How much money did you put into tools (vacuum pump, etc.) to get set up?

[12Ounce]

I took the training as part of my earlier employment ... just to know what the law was.

I am sure this training is still available in technical schools around the country. I don't know what costs would be ... probably in line with any other adult continuing-education tuition.

Beyond that, I have studied AC systems some as a curiosity. Have purchased a few service equipment items, including a high-vacuum pump ... it being the largest price tagged item. Probably $500 or so. I'm just an old nut!

EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot that I bought a high-end leak detector ... probably another $500, or more. Like I say ... an old nut!

.... the classroom training, including the testing, was one week long ....IIRC. The training did not make a person a skilled AC serviceperson, it only dealt with the laws of how/why refrigerants were to be handled, recovered, recycled, etc, etc... record keeping, etc, etc.

[Windstartled]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

Even though following the "Montreal Protocol" is a federal EPA mandate .... state jurisdictions were to have some "implementation liberties", IIRC.

The "Montreal Protocol" is not even followed in Montreal, so far anyone here can purchase any refrigerant they fancy and do whatever they like with it, as long as it's disposed of according to laws that apply to most chemicals, laws which are seldom enforced as far as individuals are concerned. I usually "dispose" of my refrigerant when it suddenly blows out of a loose tube (see my post entitled "Poof!"), winter is tough on rubber here

[12Ounce]

Originally Posted by Windstartled

.....The "Montreal Protocol" is not even followed in Montreal, .....

That is so interesting! Here it was/is treated as "lose your job" and "go to prison" serious. I have witnessed serious actions (termination) taken when recovery mistakes were made.

[Windstartled]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

That is so interesting! Here it was/is treated as "lose your job" and "go to prison" serious. I have witnessed serious actions (termination) taken when recovery mistakes were made.

If I recall correctly the EPA was indeed one of the major proponents of the Protocol and the US readily adopted it, but Canada was not so eager due to costs involved and some industries lobbying against certain aspects of the legislation, I'm not too clear on the details. So far the only visible effects of the Protocol here is that it's getting more difficult to find oil-based paints and aerosol cheese. I won't miss the latter.

[wiswind]

Understanding the the need to add refrigerant is due to a leak someplace....I clearly understand that additional equipment is needed beyond what is needed to correctly add replacement refrigerant.
As 12ounce mentioned......it gets expensive REAL fast......which is why I have a shop do it for me.
It comes up 1 every 15 to 20 years or so for me.
So, beyond a hobby or doing it for others (illegal in Wisconsin without said license)....it is not economical for me to DIY this correctly.
Folks that I hear talking about doing this are adding the refigerant yearly or more often.....which is why Wisconsin has the strict laws in the first place.
So....instead of the old times (when margerine was illegal in Wisconsin) when people ran for the border to buy butter alternatives......they run to the border to buy refigerant.

[Windstartled]

Originally Posted by wiswind

So....instead of the old times (when margerine was illegal in Wisconsin) when people ran for the border to buy butter alternatives......they run to the border to buy refigerant.

Wow, and here I was thinking that Quebec was the only place in North America where margarine was once heavily regulated. It wasn't banned outright but it was illegal to make it the same color as butter so it was either almost white or school bus yellow. Obviously this had to do with the dairy industry lobby, which is quite powerful due to the large number of dairy farms (largest in Canada). This law lasted for like 30 years until it was abolished a few years ago after the local government stated "voters do not expect a legislative body to debate over ridiculous issues such as the color of margarine".

[ricebike]

Originally Posted by tempfixit

like wiswind said in wisconsin

yea, that sucks big time... when the same chemical found in air horns and keyboard/pc aerosole cleaners are freely used..

The State of Wisconsin prohibits the sale of "ALL" refrigerant, including R134a, in containers of less than 25 pounds, (section 100.45 Wis. Stats. and Chapter ATCP 136 Wis. Adm. Code) and restricts end-use of other refrigerant sales to businesses registered with the Wisconsin Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection or the Wisconsin Department of Commerce for servicing air conditioning and refrigeration systems.

so it's just this state? I've quickly googled and saw a "grace period" in 2006 for people to buy those small cans... but, no one knew why back then it was allowed for a short time.

and now they're thinking about changing to another chemical?

http://motorage.search-autoparts.com...&date&pageID=3

i still have an 1989 model with R12 which I serviced in 1995 and is still working ever since with adaptors to "retrofit" to R134a if it does spring a leak in the near future...