Gts-r

[Ford_Man_1984]

i hate them to!!!
they look gay!!!
people its just a comanhore with a different front end. if you want real power then start with real power...not the 300kW (240kW at the rear wheels) slug that cant even beat the new GT Falcon with a 5.4 litre donk... for f^ucks sake...290kW out of a 5.4 and 300kW out of a 5.7 and the 5.4 kicks the shite out of it in every class!!!!!
you want a HSV then y dont u just buy a povity pack comanhore change the front spoiler and wack a super on it!!!
or buy a XR6 turbo for $44,640AUS and kick the shite out of any stock comanhore in australia!!!

[replicant_008]

Originally Posted by Ford_Man_1984

i hate them to!!!
they look gay!!!
people its just a comanhore with a different front end. if you want real power then start with real power...not the 300kW (240kW at the rear wheels) slug that cant even beat the new GT Falcon with a 5.4 litre donk... for f^ucks sake...290kW out of a 5.4 and 300kW out of a 5.7 and the 5.4 kicks the shite out of it in every class!!!!!
you want a HSV then y dont u just buy a povity pack comanhore change the front spoiler and wack a super on it!!!
or buy a XR6 turbo for $44,640AUS and kick the shite out of any stock comanhore in australia!!!

Well to be honest, it's not that clear cut.

The 5.4 litre GT and GT-P engine is essentially based on a Lincoln Navigator iron block with some twin-cam heads. This introduces some compromises - the twin-cam heads only come into their own in the mid to high rev range but get strangled by the limitations of the big end which is essentially a cast iron truck block. And the clearance in the engine bay is non-existent. The extra weight over the front axle dulls the handling compared to the Barra Engined XR6T too. And I don't think much of the SOHC V8 option compared to the standard Barra and the hair-drier Barra.

On the other hand, the LS1/GenIII even with the Callaway heads is based on a alloy block and pushrod heads. It's a lot lighter than the Ford engine and the engine characteristics make it relatively cheap, has good low-down torque and seems less like likely to want to spin something off compared to the 5.4 as you hit the revlimiter (which even for a pushrod is still higher than the 5.4 with the DOHC heads courtesy of that truck block). On the other hand, the 300kW engines have some reliability problems as do a handful of the LS1s - particularly pistons and oil use.

The High Feature V6 from GM is badly needed for the next Commode upgrade as the existing Buick V6 has passed its use-by date.

On real roads (ie ones with corners not to mention speed cameras and police pursuit patrols), there isn't a helluva lot of difference between the XR6T, the GT/GTP, SS, R8 Clubsports, GTO or the XR8 - they are all at the pointy end of the performance envelope and it comes down to preference and handling setup. I don't like the commode's semi-trailing arm rear end - the control blade is much better and the XR6T has the better front end but the Ford V8's are blunted by the extra weight over the front end... And the starter button of the GT's is a pain in the ass.

[Ford_Man_1984]

then how do u feel that the the XR8 with its 260kW beats the hell outa every holden made this year??
and the XR6 turbo also beating everything??
and the GT beating everything??

[AndrewHatch]

Well it shits me but then considering Holden has slaughtered Ford for so long it's about time they lost a bit of shine.

If anything it keeps Holden honest and with any hope the VZ and subsequent VE models will be absolute crackers.

I for one am seriously considering the prospect of getting an SS GenIV with DoD when it arrives

[Holden_H8R]

slaughtered ford???
holden hasnt yet made a car to beat one of the many fords in 1960's..
The Phase 3 still beats all productions holdens in a straight line and kicks many round the track..
holden still hasnt found a legal engine to stand a chance against the carby fed 351 Cleveland!!!
ill eat my whole car when holden brings out a production car that beats all production fords!!!
402hp thats funny the 72 falcons had 400hp at the wheels!!!

[AndrewHatch]

Well in the last 5 or 6 years they couldn't produce, in the same period, a car to beat HSV or Holdens Gen III SS Commodore

Also Magazine tests of it's era show the Phase 3 could only manage an official 0-100 time of around 6.5 seconds and a 14.7 second quarter mile. Stock SS Commodores have posted better figures than that ever since VT Series II.

Also stock A9X Toranas would cane a GTHO around a racetrack and even one such as Bathurst with it's long straights. Not to mention the latest SS Commodores or HSV's.

Not sure what you mean by legal engine though? The 351 Cleveland was American just like the Gen III. Also the Gen III is streets ahead of the Cleveland in economy, power, refinement etc...

Oh yeah and the Phase IV doesn't count as it was never "officially" sold so you might want to start munching as even the FPV GT can't beat a Clubsport in a straight line.

Ford fans of Australia, let it go. The Phase III was the best in it's day, 30 years ago, not any more.

[Holden_H8R]

14.4 second quarter mile actully making it the 5th fastest accelerating australian production car in aus and thats with 32 year old rubber
4th being the XR8 3rd being the E49 Charger 2nd being the XR6 turbo and 1st being the new GT...
i ment legal engine because of the 7 litre monaro
they were gunna release it but it was discontinued...didnt u hear about that???
There hasnt been a A9X torana in history thats beaten the Phase 3...yes the phase 4 wasnt released but it kicked the shite outa all the commodores just like the XA GT351 its little brother...
its funny isnt it the RS500 won baturst with its tiny 2 litre turbo'd engine....there is still no holden that can beat the RS200 and its a 1.8 litre turbo that weighs 1145kg...supercharged 3.8 commodore dosnt even run 0-100km/h in twice the time it does.
351 cleveland is the fastest small block in the world
runs 7.652 second quarter naturally aspirated...
the LS1 has nothing!!!

[Zwrangler]

Uh dude, from the photos it looks like a normal HSV GTS. A friend of mine has one in black only its got the full options with leather seats not those crappy looking fabric seats. Comes with 300kw's stock standard. I think he's had some minor work done to the engine and he's running in the 12's, but not sure as to the exact time. AS far as i know all he's added is an exhaust and chip to get these times. By the way, where did you get the $30,000 price tag???? An HSV GTS usually costs around $100,000 australian dollars which i think is closer to $50-70,000 U.S. dollars, not really sure after the conversion but i think its somewhere along those figures.

[hsvman]

umm.. to holden h8r the december issue of motor mag recently tested the commodore ss II and xr8. the ss ran a time of 13.94 to the xr8 14.37 and in motors own words "not only is the ss half a second quicker than the xr8, bit it outpaces the 290kw fpv gt as well" well thats got ur theary of the gt being the quickest australian production car. and in the november issue they tested the hsv clubbie II up with the fpv gt and the times were clubbie 13.56 and gt 14.22 wats this holden kicks the shit out of fordow and the xr6 runs 14.14 and the gts runs bout a 13.20, 13.30 stock

[AndrewHatch]

Originally Posted by Holden_H8R

There hasnt been a A9X torana in history thats beaten the Phase 3...yes the phase 4 wasnt released but it kicked the shite outa all the commodores just like the XA GT351 its little brother...
its funny isnt it the RS500 won baturst with its tiny 2 litre turbo'd engine....there is still no holden that can beat the RS200 and its a 1.8 litre turbo that weighs 1145kg...supercharged 3.8 commodore dosnt even run 0-100km/h in twice the time it does.
351 cleveland is the fastest small block in the world
runs 7.652 second quarter naturally aspirated...
the LS1 has nothing!!!

you really have no idea. Check out the Baturst times here:

http://www.v8supercar.com.au/resourc...urst/grids.htm

Oh yeah and Sierra's don't count either, Ford never sold them in Australia and the ones that raced were modified for the Group A rules at the time. I wonder if you even know where they were made.....

Yep the HRT 427 wasn't released, just like the Phase IV huh?

The Gen IV will displace 6 litres when it arrives, but don't worry, maybe Ford will continue to develop it's "Romeo" 5.4 V8 so you can sort of be able to catch up!

[replicant_008]

This is getting ridiculous. It's true that the RS500 Cosworth Sierras were Group A Racecars but so were all the other cars in the field and ultimately the quickest Group A car to compete in Australia was the Nissan GTR.

The Nissan GTR is still available in Japan and was available for sale in Australia. However, in NZ both the Sierra (incl the RS500) and the GTR were available for sale... in fact if you have the cash, Nissan NZ will still bring in the current GTR for you to special order.

But that's about as relevant to the road car situation as the current V8SuperCar standings are to driving around in a current Falcodore... The engines in the Supercars are both ironblock 5 litre pushrods, both run wishbone front ends and live axle rears and use the same combination of a Hollinger gearbox to the same Ford diff. If you've ever worked in the pit lane during a meeting it's pretty plain to see when the front splitters are off, the bonnets are up and the wheels are off that the similarity between either racecar and its road car equivalent is purely superficial.

As for the fastest car... it depends on the driver, the conditions and the roads being used if you want a real world comparison. 0-100 and quarter mile times are fine for the traffic light drags but to be honest the combination of roadholding, handling (note they are two quite distinct things), braking performance, rolling acceleration (particularly 80-120 km/h).

The Phase III may have the better 0-100 time than an XR6 Turbo but drive back to back on twisty country road and the newer car won't break a sweat running away in corner speed.

[Bavarian Boy M3]

the polls titled which would you rather have, so you guys are all saying youll choose a less luxurious, less high-performing car over a car twice as expensive in a poll where $ is no option?

[Bavarian Boy M3]

o yeah and look at that BEASTLY interior!! not even any leather!! the seats'll smell like sweat after half a year, and they'll feel rely hard to sit on. and the design of the seat is pretty ugly too

[Ford_Man_1984]

who told you the Phase IV didnt get released?
they didnt enter it into bathurst but they released it buddy.....do ya home work

[Ford_Man_1984]

id much rather a M5 than a HSV..... Although there both designed in germany the BMW has about 500 times betta steel in its make.....BMW is known for there quality.....the BMW will still be looking brand new when the HSV is getting a respray......we all know about Holdens Paint.....not even Toyota thought it was decent.....remember the VN-VR (Lexens) thats right the Lexen was actully a all around betta car than the Commodore.....betta paint....betta computer.....and alot of other little things....YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.... everyone knows that...but hey thats just my opinion...