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| View Poll Results: Which would you rather have? | |||
| HSV GTS-R ($30 000) |
   
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30 | 62.50% |
| BMW M5 ($65 000) |
  
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18 | 37.50% |
| Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#46
08-23-2001, 06:09 AM
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When the AU Falcon came out, it looked pretty underbaked compared to the VT. Our IDIOT motoring press (yours can't be as bad, surely?) focussed their dislike mostly on the 'waterfall' grille of the AU, and soon every amateur expert and his dog were panning Ford in the street for the poxy grille design. Consequently Ford took a hammering, sales-wise, there was even gossip (untrue) of Ford pulling out of Oz.
It sounds ridiculous, I know, but literally everyone was berating AUs for that small lump of plastic. Personally, I didn't mind the grille, a Lincoln-esque design cue I think could have evolved nicely. Anyway, much of Ford management here got sacked for the sales flop, and ex Sydney-Ford dealer principal Geoff Polities was appointed head CEO. Let me tell you he has been a breath of fresh air, virtually solely revitalising Fords fortunes and sales here, firstly for the AU2 and now all the new V8 developments underway. He's a real 'car-guy' .... not a bloody accountant. In many ways the Ford is a superior product the the Conformadore (Commode-door?) and sales ARE increasing markedly, but as it stands Holden sold almost 100,000 units last financial year (to June 30) + around 30,000 exports, for I think a 27% share of the Oz market. Ford, on the other hand, sold only 60,000 Falcons, plus a miniscule amount of exports, for a 17% share, albeit closing on 2nd place Toyota. Hope this helps, Primera-Man :smoka: 
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#47
08-23-2001, 06:27 AM
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Even though i'm a holden man myself, the Tickford Ford ( in my books anyway) is the nicer of the 2 models. Holden need to get this coupe model out soon.....and mass produce it, not just limit it. The demand for that will be amazing.
__________________
Current Build.....1/12 Scale Camaro......Almost finished!!!    View All My Models Here.
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#49
08-23-2001, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
 .....yeah i'm not a Ford man either and never will be (thats another story though)..... but at least they are giving the HDT Team a run for there money at long last
__________________
Current Build.....1/12 Scale Camaro......Almost finished!!! View All My Models Here.
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#51
08-23-2001, 06:58 AM
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After my VK Group A (bought brand-spankers for A$21,950!) I'm a bit cynical about the value in 'tuner' cars - then a new cop-spec VK 5 litre was under $15,000 ... Similarly, the $25k+ impost of a Clubsport over a 5.7 Executive is tough to justify.
Looking at F***s, with their terrific double-wishbone suspension F&R, its gotta be better than the Holden system, which is basically the same as a Datto 1600, ie struts and semi-trailing arms. Most testers here agree that the F*** drives better. As for the Monaro, the past tells us that aussies don't buy 2-doors, even though they pretend to want one. Perhaps the market has matured since HK-HJs .. but somehow I doubt it. I predict, after an initial splurge, sales will wane. 700 deposits have been taken by Holden. Hopefully the Middle East exports will sustain it. btw, the cheapest Monaro, with 3.8 blown, leather, climate etc, will sell at Calais prices at least.
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#52
08-23-2001, 07:03 AM
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I reckon that sales will be double overseas compared to hear for the Monaro. If it gets into America in the next few years (which i have a feeling it might) will absoloutely sell like hot cakes
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#53
08-23-2001, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
__________________
Current Build.....1/12 Scale Camaro......Almost finished!!! View All My Models Here.
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#54
08-23-2001, 07:27 AM
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You may be right, Downunder, Monaro export sales may be double of local - witness that more Statesmen (Statespeople? non-sexist) are sold to Arabs than aussies. No USA sales of Holdens, though, as the new Sigma platform and derivatives will be manufactured stateside, so no need to export (see previous post).
As for the traditional low demand for local 2-doors, only the Charger could be considered a sales success (almost 50% of mopar sales here at one stage, because of deft marketing and low-low prices, compared to the sedan. The Falcon Tudor bellyfloped, as did the previous Munro. Witness the sales history for Monaro (all models & types): HK: 8945 sold HT: 14,437 " HG: 6147 " HQ: 13,782 " ... including 4-door (out of 500,000 HQs sold!!!) HJ: 4754 " " ". Miniscule sales figures, by any standard.
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#55
08-24-2001, 06:08 AM
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If or when HSV export their 'Coupe' (thats the name of the car, simple aint it
) i hope it will be in all the mags like Top Gear and up against the M3 and Merc's with raving reviews on how gorgous it looks and how hard it goes.OOOHHHH BABBY YES!!! 
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#57
10-19-2001, 04:09 PM
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About struts being bad, all BMW's have struts up front, and multilink in the rear(usually).
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#58
10-19-2001, 09:13 PM
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Chris: I never said Mr Macpherson's struts were 'bad' - merely implied that more links equate to superior wheel control.
Struts debuted on the '50s British Ford Consul. The nifty Datsun 1600 was in many ways a Japanese copy of the earlier BMW 1602, then the cutting-edge design in small cars. Both these vehicles employed front struts, and rear semi-trailing arm suspension. The advantages of Macpherson struts include compactness, and notably cost, because manufacturers can install them in-situ (in one unit). Macpherson was, after all, a Scotsman. Aren't struts by definition a '3-link' design (ie: 3 mounting/pivot points) and therefore more prone to deleterious camber change? Contrast this with the more sophisticated and expensive double-wishbone (4-link A-arm) as used front and rear on the Falcon, which has the potential for more accurate control of camber change thruought its arc (travel). Also, it's highly unusual to find vehicles employing strut suspensions TO feature provision for camber adjustment, which means that after hitting that high kerb, wicked pothole, or even structural wear through sustained driving on rough roads (not uncommon in Australia) it's off for a trip to the Smash Repairer and onto the Car-O-Liner to bend the whole damn thing back into shape, rather than just an inexpensive wheel alignment as provided with wishbones. This simple reality of car ownership is seldom, if ever, mentioned in glossy magazines. As I recall, Mercedes Benz was the first manufacurer to offer a 5-link system, using a supercomputer to simulate complex pivot axis variation, on the 190 (the first C-class) - a fantastic handling car. nb: Holden has, on the new VX2, finally been compelled (kicking and screaming all the way) to offer the additional 4th link on the semi-trailing arm rear suspension of regular Commodores, not just the GTS. With the previous 3-link system, a bearing took the side-load, and as that wore with age, sudden and twitchy 'snap-oversteer' would result. My neighbour's '94 Statesman (stretched Commodore) wore out the inside tread of its rear tyres in only 12,000 miles through (non-adjustable) negative camber, not uncommon. ps: Road Testers here agree that the Falcon's (optional) front/rear double-wishbone system offers tangible benefits and a superior drive, compared to the Holden's cheap/primitive strut/trailing-arm system - including VX2's 4th link.
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#59
10-20-2001, 10:02 PM
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Well, I say that struts are bad. But you can get alignments (my mom gets them all the time!
)But with proper tuning, they can be very good. But wishbones are better. And with struts, you have radius arms and junk like that to provide lateral and horizontal support. Also, the current civic has struts, and its slalom went down 2mph from the wishbone model.
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#60
10-20-2001, 10:20 PM
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When your mom gets her alignment (for the car, lol) can the camber be adjusted, or merely the caster & toe-in?
btw: it's illuminating to price replacement shock absorbers for strut vs non-strut vehicles .. struts are usually 2-3 times the price  The Civic would be but one example. I've yet to see one dedicated competition vehicle (eg Formula 1, etc) utilizing Macpherson struts. Radius rods might provide extra location, but it's the arc of the wheel travel that determines camber change
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