Audi A4 1.8T or Subaru Impreza WRX ?

[Tom_S8]

Originally posted by nahmed

I like the idea of putting the RUF CTR engine inside a 959. good choice

Errm i know it's not yours , but that's not me who wrote that above....

[nahmed]

ok!?

[Tom_S8]

Originally posted by nahmed
ok!?

Ehh... Fair enough ....

[LetsJustDrive]

i dont mean to start any trouble mr.admin, but if it is your job to moderate the forums and keep their purpose, why are you debating over audi and vw in a forum where a guy wants to know whether or not to buy an Audi or a Subaru??? He's not gonna buy a VW for cryin out loud. NE ways, i am selling my 1.8t because even though the a4 is absolutely gorgeous, audio system, interior, and exterior, I myself desire the performance of the WRX. 0-60 in 5.7secs sure beats auid's 8.3 for the same price. :smoker2:

[saudin]

Saudin

I own a Passat, but I am a strong favorite of Italian cars like Alfa Romeo. I would have to choose Audi instead of the WRX even if it's one of the best new cars on the market, price, power, handling. German automakers are known for handling, as you know of the Porsches and BMW's. The subaru is a good handling car and the audi is also a fairly good handling car. I would go with the audi since I love German car for quilty and style. The quattro system is better in my opinion. Moreover, Audi's are always known for their design. In a few years the 2002 one will be modern in the next 10 years. It happened before with the 5000 and 80,etc.

[quattroadvantage]

Originally posted by nahmed
You're right about the rally car part, but i'm not much of a fan for the interior. Too much red. Both cars have super engines, for modifications, and other reasons. Ikind of like the Audi too, since its Quattro has a physical link, unlike the Subaru and the Evo who have electronic links. In my opinion, the Audi is the better choice. don't forget the Audi is a suped-up VW, so you might want to think about getting the VW Passat with 4motion. I'm working on getting some more feedback on my friends VW. I know he likes his Passat, maybe you might want to check it out too.
I hope this helps

Ok, I wont get into the Audi is a supped up VW argument because its a flawed and disproven statement. As to mentioning the Passat with 4motion to the Audi with Quattro. there is no comparison. Quattro is the primo of AWD systems, far superior to Subaru's etc etc. It is also a world of differnce to teh 4 motion system stuck in the VW models. Quattro is a full time active torsen system. 4 motion is a passive (not on unless needed, making the car a fwd). Very differnt in performance.


ANd in reply to the outrageuous comment that implied Porsche is a subsidiary of VAG and that Porsche and the TT are based on teh same platform and use the same parts. THEY ARE NOT. VAG only has a 5% investment in Porsche..investment does nto make it a subsidiary. the TT does not share/interchange parts with Porsche, just some of us TTer's have found thePorsche braking system to be modifies and used on the TT

[shrubbery]

Originally posted by quattroadvantage


Ok, I wont get into the Audi is a supped up VW argument because its a flawed and disproven statement. As to mentioning the Passat with 4motion to the Audi with Quattro. there is no comparison. Quattro is the primo of AWD systems, far superior to Subaru's etc etc. It is also a world of differnce to teh 4 motion system stuck in the VW models. Quattro is a full time active torsen system. 4 motion is a passive (not on unless needed, making the car a fwd). Very differnt in performance.


ANd in reply to the outrageuous comment that implied Porsche is a subsidiary of VAG and that Porsche and the TT are based on teh same platform and use the same parts. THEY ARE NOT. VAG only has a 5% investment in Porsche..investment does nto make it a subsidiary. the TT does not share/interchange parts with Porsche, just some of us TTer's have found thePorsche braking system to be modifies and used on the TT

I would beg to differ on Quattro being the best. Its very good for the price point but would lag behind systems such as the Skyline GT-R, Evo 8, Porsch 959. Except for the Evo 8, however, these are fairly expensive cars. As for Subbie AWD vs. Audi AWD, I would say its a wash. Even with the Audi's Torsen system available, most rally cars used viscous systems such as the ones used in Subbie's manual cars. And they didn't miss a beat either. The WRX will outhandle the current A4 Quattro not because of the AWD, but a few other factors. Look at things like weight, weight distribution, suspension tune before looking at the AWD system to determine handling. And above all, driver ability !

Regarding Quattro....No no no... get this straight: the 4motion and quattro nomenclatures are MARKETING devices. You can't use these terms to describe the workings of each. Instead use the underlying platform:
A4 platform (segment A, 4th generation)
Golf, Jetta, TT
B5 and B6 platforms (segment B, 5th and 6th generation)
B5 is the old A4, S4, A6, Passat
B6 is the new A4 only right now

The A4 platform is configured such that the engine has to be mounted transverse. This was a problem for the Audi engineers that needed an AWD system for its then-new TT. So they went to a Swedish company named Haldex and acquired the use of a clutch-based system that is FWD until slippage. Therefore the Audi TT Quattro is the only Audi that uses the Haldex system. However in Europe, there are Golf and Jetta 4Motion cars that use the identical system.

The B5 and B6 platforms are bigger and have a longitudinal mounted engine. They employ the "classic" Quattro ferguson layout with 3 differentials. The center is a Zyxel-Gleason Torsen differential with 2 normal open-diffs in the front and back. The behavior of a Torsen diff is a lot different than other systems that I won't go into. But since the Passat uses the same platform as the A4 and A6, the Passat 4motion uses the exact same system as the A4, A6, and A8 quattros.

So in summary:
Torsen system - VW Passat 4motion, Audi A4, A6, A8
Haldex system - Audi TT, Golf 4motion, Jetta 4motion (last 2 are European)

Hope this clears everything up.:licker:

[quattroadvantage]

Originally posted by shrubbery


I would beg to differ on Quattro being the best. Its very good for the price point but would lag behind systems such as the Skyline GT-R, Evo 8, Porsch 959. Except for the Evo 8, however, these are fairly expensive cars. As for Subbie AWD vs. Audi AWD, I would say its a wash. Even with the Audi's Torsen system available, most rally cars used viscous systems such as the ones used in Subbie's manual cars. And they didn't miss a beat either. The WRX will outhandle the current A4 Quattro not because of the AWD, but a few other factors. Look at things like weight, weight distribution, suspension tune before looking at the AWD system to determine handling. And above all, driver ability !

Regarding Quattro....No no no... get this straight: the 4motion and quattro nomenclatures are MARKETING devices. You can't use these terms to describe the workings of each. Instead use the underlying platform:
A4 platform (segment A, 4th generation)
Golf, Jetta, TT
B5 and B6 platforms (segment B, 5th and 6th generation)
B5 is the old A4, S4, A6, Passat
B6 is the new A4 only right now

The A4 platform is configured such that the engine has to be mounted transverse. This was a problem for the Audi engineers that needed an AWD system for its then-new TT. So they went to a Swedish company named Haldex and acquired the use of a clutch-based system that is FWD until slippage. Therefore the Audi TT Quattro is the only Audi that uses the Haldex system. However in Europe, there are Golf and Jetta 4Motion cars that use the identical system.

The B5 and B6 platforms are bigger and have a longitudinal mounted engine. They employ the "classic" Quattro ferguson layout with 3 differentials. The center is a Zyxel-Gleason Torsen differential with 2 normal open-diffs in the front and back. The behavior of a Torsen diff is a lot different than other systems that I won't go into. But since the Passat uses the same platform as the A4 and A6, the Passat 4motion uses the exact same system as the A4, A6, and A8 quattros.

So in summary:
Torsen system - VW Passat 4motion, Audi A4, A6, A8
Haldex system - Audi TT, Golf 4motion, Jetta 4motion (last 2 are European)

Hope this clears everything up.:licker:

I'm not sure where your getting yoru information from, but the Quattro system is not the same system as the 4 motion, even in the same platform (A4- Passat). This has ben an ongoing debate and was confirmed by AOA, VW in tech articles. They are different systems. And yes the Quattro system is far more advanced then the consumer AWD system of Subaru. As far as the WRC systems, Audi/VAG uses another system, competitve with the other WRC competitors in its Skoda competitor.

As far as the current WRX performing the current A4, I would also differ with you on that. FOr as many particulars you could list why the WRX would outperform, I could also show why the A4 would as well.

[Deakins]

The only Haldex system sold in a VAG car as Quattro is the TT/A3 Quattro system.

[shrubbery]

Originally posted by quattroadvantage


I'm not sure where your getting yoru information from, but the Quattro system is not the same system as the 4 motion, even in the same platform (A4- Passat). This has ben an ongoing debate and was confirmed by AOA, VW in tech articles. They are different systems. And yes the Quattro system is far more advanced then the consumer AWD system of Subaru. As far as the WRC systems, Audi/VAG uses another system, competitve with the other WRC competitors in its Skoda competitor.

As far as the current WRX performing the current A4, I would also differ with you on that. FOr as many particulars you could list why the WRX would outperform, I could also show why the A4 would as well.

Look at any tech article. Ask any tech knowledgeable Audi or VW forum. They will confirm what I said about Quattro and 4motion. Its platform dependent, not badge dependent. Audi and VW use the same underlying platforms and its these limitations that define what system can be used where. Again:
A4 platform (not the A4 car): Golf, Jetta, TT - Haldex clutch system, transverse engine mount
B5 platform: Audi A4, A6, Passat - Torsen center differential, longitudinal engine mount

And when you say the "And yes the Quattro system is far more advanced then the consumer AWD system of Subaru" .. you have to tell me are you refering to the Haldex of the TT or the Torsen of the other Audi's?? In fact Subaru uses TWO distinctly different systems for their consumer cars. Manual transmission Subbies have a viscous coupling system while automatics get a clutch pack type system similiar to Haldex. I also believe that the Subbie WRX get a rear limited slip differential. The only Quattro's that had a limited slip rear diff was the old Audi V8. The current system uses the EDL system which is nothing more than a form of traction control.

[RACER D12]

A4 the 1.8T can make 300-400hp with out making any big internal mods so i would take it over the WRX plus the Audi would beat the WRX at the high end to, i like the WRX but it dosnt have a high top speed.

Cant wait to get my A4 1.8T when im done modding its going tto kick @$$

[4Halos]

nahmed, just give up S8 has had you beat in every argument. Number one VW may 0wn Audi, but Audi is basically in a league of their 0wn, they have their 0wn engineers, as well as VW. Since VW couldn't keep up with the times they decided "hey i 0wnz j00, give me your engine so i can drop in my jetta's, skoda's etc" As far as you debating porsche and RUF, RUF goes straight to porsches factories takes cars off their hands and tunes them. I don't see why your friend would buy an RUF and then drop a 959 engine in it . Either that porsche doesn't exist or your friend is a fuggin dumbass, which i wouldn't think because people who tune porsches know the varients of tuning. Even Authority (main US tuner for porsches in MD) knows their porsche shiznit. RUF only gets their own VIN numbers, because the whole car is pretty much re-done and finished over, if you try to register one with a porsche serial you may have problems. Anyhoo, look at the B5 chassis for the Passat, obviously VW didn't develope fast enough, so once again they stole the B5 platform from audi's S4 and A4 (which now uses the B6 platform for 2002's+). Don't knock their engineers though, they did come up with the whole W thing, and i don't knock the VR6 because i have friends who have boosted ones and they are fuggin fast (i.e have ran vipers from a roll to 175 with changed ratios) I just wanted to say if you don't know, just give up smile and nod, quit trying to fight S8

[nahmed]

"nahmed, just give up S8 has had you beat in every argument"--S8 must be right--right? right!!

As for your arguement Audi is in a league of its own, perhaps, but if it doesn't share anything with anyother car, the cars would be that much harder to sell to a public who lives on a budget. There must be another reason why you can buy 96-99 A4 for 10K today, otherwise I was expecting a much higher resell value.

[topracer]

Pretty simple. If you want an elegant car for everyday use, get the A4, give up some performace. If you want a pure sports car, get the WRX, with only a Civic like interior.

[nahmed]

I KNOW THAT