What would I expect for a 302 swap?

[Mercracer]

Define "a little under 20". Most carb 302's will never get close to 20. I have gotten 23 with my '91 Mustang on the highway on a 300 mile trip.

[Tony H]

You didn't answer my question. Anyway, 17-19mpg. Its a rare 302 that gets 23mpg, EFI or not. Elivation can effect it though.

[Mercracer]

5 mpg is a big difference.

[Tony H]

True, but my point is the average EFI 5.0 doesn't get 23mpg.

[rerun]

Ug.. time to do some clean up.

Ok first of all you can NOT bore out a 289 to a 302. Infact, a 302 is just a STROKED version of the 289. They share IDENTICAL blocks EXCEPT that the the 289 bore is BIGGER by .001. A 289 has a stroke of 2.87 and a 302 has a strock of 3.

Secondly, why would you even want to change your 289 to a 302? A 289 would make about 5-10hp less than a 302 at around 350hp mark. BUT!! It will out rev a 302 by an ungodly amount. 289s tend to make their power way up on the RPM scale, which is a good thing.

As for the gas problem, 289s are good on gas when you want them to be, but like i said they make their power on the higher RPMs so when you really need to move just downshift and watch that little RPM neddle go.. as well as your gas neddle go down.

EFI will generally get more gas milage than a carb, but NOTHING will beat a carb, its very simple, has no computer, and you can tune it with a screwdriver.

As for the 67, what type is it? I got me a 67 coupe, shes my baby, and she's still in resortion.

[flex339]

yeah thats funny because I would tend to put money on the exact engine the EFI will outperform it then when it's carbed.

[Mercracer]

[quote=rerun]Ug.. time to do some clean up.

They share IDENTICAL blocks EXCEPT that the the 289 bore is BIGGER by .001.
A 289 would make about 5-10hp less than a 302 at around 350hp mark. BUT!! It will out rev a 302 by an ungodly amount. 289s tend to make their power way up on the RPM scale, which is a good thing.
EFI will generally get more gas milage than a carb, but NOTHING will beat a carb, its very simple, has no computer, and you can tune it with a screwdriver.
QUOTE]

Say what????????

How do you get that there is a 1 thousanths bigger bore with a 289? Are you saying that they run more wall clearance with the pistons?
Ford lists both bores as 4.00. Both will run some amount of wall clearance.

Explain your 5-10hp theory. If they are both making 350HP, they are both making 350HP. If you are saying that the 302 generally makes some amount of more torque due to the longer stroke if the same cam and heads are used, then you would be correct.
Define "ungodly" amount. And "way up" in the RPM scale.
302's are more than equally capable (as 289's) of living at elevated RPM's. With the same cam, and the longer stroke, The 302 should out torque the 289 at any given RPM.
If by "NOTHING will beat a carb", you mean that a carb can generally make more peak power NA for less money than an EFI setup, then you have some merit to your statement.
If you look at area under the curve, and are willing to spend the additional time and money, EFI will look very attractive.
Once you add forced induction, the carb's simplicity is even more it's downfall. Once you have a EFI system properly set up, you do not even need a screwdriver to change the tune. A couple of key strokes, and viola, new tune. You also are not getting fuel on your hands and clothes while you change jets to adjust for changing conditions at the track.

[rerun]

time for fun boys...

289 bore= 4.005
302 bore= 4.004

when you bore these blocks out you would just go to 4.02, or 4.03 or what ever you wanted to(you do not get a 4.035 or 4.034).

As for carbs being slower?... uhh.. have you gone to the drags latley?

my 5-10hp "theory" is not a theory; i am just stating the hp diffrence between a 289 and a 302 if the 302 was making around 350hp.

the higher rpm range on a 289 is about 6k on a stock motor, i've seen them making all their hp up to 8k+.. and whens the last time you could bring a 302 up to 8,500rpm on a fairly stock motor.

A 302 will have just a tad more torque than a 289 about 10 more pounds at the same exple of the 302 with 350hp (depending on your set up). After all, the 289 does use longer rods.

Also, if your afraid of a little gas on your hands.. well i think you've picked the wrong way to live..

I'm not against the 302, its a great motor, but i just like the 289 much better.

Any more questions?

[thunderbird muscle]

I could care less which one heck I have a 4.6(can't be carbed) It just has to be american muscle V8 Ya

289 and 302 have very little differences So it really shouldn't matter in my opinion I'd rather have the 302 just because it is bigger(more fumes)

Don't worry to much about it just pick the one you personally can find the most parts for.

[Tony H]

Originally Posted by Mercracer

Once you have a EFI system properly set up, you do not even need a screwdriver to change the tune. A couple of key strokes, and viola, new tune. You also are not getting fuel on your hands and clothes while you change jets to adjust for changing conditions at the track.

lol, You talk like its hard to turn a screwdriver.

[GTStang]

First there are 302 28oz balance engines. The pre Fuel injected 302 engines are 280z balance. As far as carb vs FI it is this simple carb is cheap and effective but it's worse on gas and sucks in cold weather warm-up. FI has more intial cost and tuning is more complex and cost more $$$ but FI will outperform a carb in any situation no matter what!!!! and gas mileage is better.

Why most guys will swap out the 289 for a 302 in older stangs is because along with a good engine they are getting a T-5 or AOD connected which gives them better gas mileage and everyday drivability.

[Tony H]

If you consider transmissions, you can always swap in a T5 or AOD. Heck, I'm doing that to my I6.

"FI will outperform a carb in any situation no matter what!!!!" That is a very strong statement that is proven inconsistent often.

[GTStang]

Originally Posted by Tony H

If you consider transmissions, you can always swap in a T5 or AOD. Heck, I'm doing that to my I6.

"FI will outperform a carb in any situation no matter what!!!!" That is a very strong statement that is proven inconsistent often.

No it's not an inconsistent statement at all. IF a carb and a FI are both tuned to perfection on the same motor, the FI set-up will always! always!! outperform the carb. FI has an accuracy carbs could only dream of and is constantly monitoring and adjusting in nanoseconds to what the motor is doing. I'm not saying carbs suck... I like carbs and they have thier place but FI is the superior performer. Argue all ya want the plain fact is you are wrong.

[Mercracer]

[quote=rerun
289 bore= 4.005
302 bore= 4.004
As for carbs being slower?... uhh.. have you gone to the drags latley?
the higher rpm range on a 289 is about 6k on a stock motor, i've seen them making all their hp up to 8k+.. and whens the last time you could bring a 302 up to 8,500rpm on a fairly stock motor.
A 302 will have just a tad more torque than a 289 about 10 more pounds at the same exple of the 302 with 350hp (depending on your set up). After all, the 289 does use longer rods.
Also, if your afraid of a little gas on your hands.. well i think you've picked the wrong way to live..
I'm not against the 302, its a great motor, but i just like the 289 much better.
Any more questions?[/QUOTE]

That's funny
So you are trying to tell me that the factory 289 block runs more wall clearance.............what is your source for this data?
My first question is if you are serious, or you are just pulling my leg.
Stock 289's do not make any power at 6000RPM's.
When was the last time you built ran your fairly stock 289 to 8500 RPM's? Whatever you can do with a 289, you can do with a 302.
Uh........have you been to an all Ford drag race lately? Local Ford days do not count. Check out NMRA or FFW or even just the WFC. What races are you basing your opinion on that EFI can not beat a carb? Stock EFI cars vs a modified carb powered car? Dude......EFI has come a long way.
I don't think you even read all of my post. Let me repeat part of it:

"If by "NOTHING will beat a carb", you mean that a carb can generally make more peak power NA for less money than an EFI setup, then you have some merit to your statement.
If you look at area under the curve, and are willing to spend the additional time and money, EFI will look very attractive.
Once you add forced induction, the carb's simplicity is even more it's downfall."

I currently run a carb on my drag car because it is cheap and easy. I didn't want to spend the time and money to convert my car to EFI. I am not running a carb because it is performance superior. If I were to add a turbo or blower, then I would go back to injection. You have infinite tunability and better control with a computer.
It is great that you like and prefer your 289, but don't try and make it out to be generally superior in performance to a 302 without backing it up with realistic facts.

[Tony H]

Originally Posted by GTStang

No it's not an inconsistent statement at all. IF a carb and a FI are both tuned to perfection on the same motor, the FI set-up will always! always!! outperform the carb. FI has an accuracy carbs could only dream of and is constantly monitoring and adjusting in nanoseconds to what the motor is doing. I'm not saying carbs suck... I like carbs and they have thier place but FI is the superior performer. Argue all ya want the plain fact is you are wrong.

Fact is, I used to think like you years ago, but years of experiance, training, and obeservations on the subject tell me you are incorrect. You can not make me change my mind on what years of experiance with both types has proven to me, especially by just saying that its wrong. You can not convince me by just saying that, likewise I can't convince you either. So lets just agree to disagree.