EOE Sliders as air tanks

[Dayspring]

Now, Why haven't we thought of using paintball air tanks for stuff like this? I can get a 114CU 4500PSI tank with adjustable regulator (0-1000psi) from a store (granted- a little pricy) but the fills are between $4-$8 depending where you go. Just a thought.

[Chris_McCracken]

Originally posted by warmonger


Fletch,

That is the same as running a Power Tank.

No it is not. The SCBA or SCUBA tanks use normal air (mainly nitrogen), which exists in the tank as a pressurized gas. Powertank's use CO2 which will compress into a liquid in the tank. When you release pressure from the tank, it only evaporates off a tiny bit of the liquid into a gas from the top of the tank. Using CO2, you get a LOT more gas packed into the same size space as plain air becuase its stored on liquid form. The only drawbacks with CO2 are that its volume varies with temperature much more than normal air, the tank must be kept upright (so you get CO2 gas, not liquid), and that it is released at a very cold temperature, requiring consideration to be taken in hoses and other hardware. I'm planning on an on-board CO2 setup, so far all I have is the regulator and a valve though. I haven't yet decided on a 10 or 15 cuft cylinder. They cost about $10 to get filled at the local welding shop. It will be mounted in the rear of the truck, with permanent lines going to the front and rear with quick-disconnects for filling tires and running air tools. I believe paintball guns use liquid CO2 as well, though I'm not sure.

[Craigs_Tonka]

Originally posted by warmonger
Each has their good and bad sides.

The good side is that I have CO2, the bad side is EVERYONE wants to use it every time we go out.

[Goliath the X]

War & others,

Thanks for the reasoning behind the need for air tanks. Does an ARB locker require constant pressure to stay engaged, or does it only take one shot to lock it, then one to unlock it?

[OffroadX]

One concern I have about CO2 is that it will react with any moisture and create carbonic acid, which could damage the wheels, or at least steel wheels. Sure if there were any moisture in the first place it isn't good for steel wheels, but the acid would only make it worse.

?
Brent

[Craigs_Tonka]

Originally posted by OffroadX
One concern I have about CO2 is that it will react with any moisture and create carbonic acid, which could damage the wheels, or at least steel wheels. Sure if there were any moisture in the first place it isn't good for steel wheels, but the acid would only make it worse.

?
Brent

I don't run steel wheels so I'm not too worried about it, but are you saying that this FAQ from Powertank is bull?

"Is the CO2 gas safe for tires?"
Yes. CO2 vapor is inert (non-toxic, non-corrosive). That's right-Non-Corrosive. Some seem to think that CO2 vapor is bad for your tires and rims. It is not. CO2 vapor is perfectly safe for your tires and wheels. In fact, your body produces CO2. CO2's thermal expansion rate is similar to air (~1 psi change per 17 degree F temp. change). CO2 is considered a "wet" gas because it does start out in liquid form but the amount of moisture content per cu. ft. of vapor is often less than what you would see coming out of an air compressor. There is no need to worry about running air tools with CO2 either. Just maintain your air tools to the manufacturers' recommendations with proper air tool oil.

[OffroadX]

CO2 itself isn't a problem, but if it dissolves in water it forms the acid. There could be enough water (a few teaspoons or more) in your tire from using crappy air-ups to pose a potential problem. I know I've seen some air-ups that spew a pretty good mist of water along with the air.

Brent

[ned946]

If I 'member back right......

H2CO3 (carbonic acid ?) forms H20 and C02 freely. It takes a lot of heat/energy/catalist to go back. Therefore, CO2 would be safe, right?

[Goliath the X]

It is energetically favorable for H2CO3 to decompose into CO2 and H2O but the energetic potential is not enough for the decomposition to begin rapidly. Given enough time, H2CO3 will decompose. However a couple molecules of H20 will greatly increase the decomposition of H2CO3 by approximately 50 billion times (number recently calculated by a group of Austrian scientists).

H2CO3 + 2 H2O --> CO2 + 3 H2O

[Craigs_Tonka]

Originally posted by Goliath the X
It is energetically favorable for H2CO3 to decompose into CO2 and H2O but the energetic potential is not enough for the decomposition to begin rapidly. Given enough time, H2CO3 will decompose. However a couple molecules of H20 will greatly increase the decomposition of H2CO3 by approximately 50 billion times (number recently calculated by a group of Austrian scientists).

H2CO3 + 2 H2O --> CO2 + 3 H2O

How in the f&*% would you know something like that?

It's mind boggling to me, or your filling me full of S#$%.

[Toy Man]

Thanks for the reasoning behind the need for air tanks. Does an ARB locker require constant pressure to stay engaged, or does it only take one shot to lock it, then one to unlock it?

Well, here is how I run mine.

Turn on ARB compressor. Takes about 7 seconds to fill the tank.
The compressor shuts off at about 100 psi.
Leave compressor on (but it is not running)

Turn on real locker. 'Instant engagement'.

Turn on front locker. 'Instant engagement'.

Turn front locker off and then back on. Compressor runs
for 2 - 3 seconds then shuts off. Front locker on. I think it
comes on instantly and the compressor then runs to refill
the tank.

While running with the locker(s) engaged, the air compressor
may turn on briefly at infrequent intervals - scares you the
first couple of times it happens.

This is using ARB's standard thin air line. Larger diameter air lines
would probably take a few seconds longer to 'charge'.

When you turn the locker off, a burst of air is discharged to the atmosphere. After several on/off's, the compressor will momentarily
kick back on to recharge the tank. The built in tank is slightly larger
than a can of cola. Doesn't take much to charge it.

I was little dubious at first but it is a well engineered system.

The only real problem I have had is that the switch face plates
keeping breaking the activation 'pin'. I am currently replacing the
plastic pin with a metal one.

Toy Man

[warmonger]

It is not a momentary solenoid as best as I can tell. I have my front locker solenoid in but will not have my front locker in place until my lift kit arrives. I tested the solenoid and it flowed air until I shut it off. So if you have a leak in your line to the air locker or the seals went bad in the locker, you will have a leak in the system.

[Philosopher]

Originally posted by Craigs_Tonka
How in the f&*% would you know something like that?

It's mind boggling to me, or your filling me full of S#$%.

Goliath is a chemical scientist. He knows what he's talking about.

[mudphud]

Originally posted by Goliath the X
It is energetically favorable for H2CO3 to decompose into CO2 and H2O but the energetic potential is not enough for the decomposition to begin rapidly. Given enough time, H2CO3 will decompose. However a couple molecules of H20 will greatly increase the decomposition of H2CO3 by approximately 50 billion times (number recently calculated by a group of Austrian scientists).

H2CO3 + 2 H2O --> CO2 + 3 H2O

H2O + CO2 <---> H2CO3 <---> H+ + HCO3-

with a pKa of 6.1 carbonic acid (the first proton anyways) should exist in a partially ionic form when dissolved in water. For example, the main reason acid rain is acidic (pH around 5.5-6) is because of the CO2 in the air, much of it from pollution. Same thing happens in your bloodstream. If you don't exhale enough, you don't blow off CO2. That drives the above balance to the right, making your blood more acidic. If you hyperventalate, the opposite happens and your blood becomes too basic. So, if you have a high concentration of CO2 in some water, it will have a tendency to drop the pH of that water, making it acidic...which might do bad things to wheels and rims.

[rrdstarr]

And Mudphud is a brain surgeon, soon to be I should say!!!