After tune up, car dies or won't start

[TimmyGTP02]

Hello everyone! So I just got done doing a tune up to my 02 GTP yesterday (Plugs, Wires, air filter, didn't get the fuel filter though) and after I got the plugs and wires in I went to start the car and it wouldn't fire. I then realized that I messed up the firing order so I got everything in the right order and turned over the key and everything worked without a problem.
Now today I go to start my car to go to work and it turned over but chugged and died. So I tried a few more times and it fired up and idled fine for about 5 minutes and then chugged and died. It finally started and stayed started the 3rd time so I could go to work and I thought nothing of it really at that point because I was running kind of late. I made it to work no problem which is about 12 miles.
About 4 hours after I parked it at work I went to start it just to make sure things were still working and it turned over just fine and idled just fine. Then 5 hours later when it's time to go home it wouldn't start at all. I must have tried 15 freaking times without it actually firing and then it would turn over and ran for about 5 minutes and died again. Started right back up and now I'm home!
Someone at work said something about was it "timed" properly? I don't know what he meant but is that something I needed to do or is there something else someone knows that's causing this to happen? Are my wires not suppose to be touching eachother at all? I'm lost so any help is appreciated.
The plugs I put in were the AC Delco iridium plugs and the wires are BWD from O'reillys.
THANKS!!

[BNaylor]

Are you sure the ignition wires are correct? Did you have the issue before the new wires? What resistance are you reading on the new wires?

Nothing you can do on ignition timing. In other words not adjustable. It is controlled by the PCM module and various sensors like the crank position sensor.

Also, depending on your mileage or the age of the fuel filter might be a good idea to replace it too.

[tblake]

When its intermittant, its hard to diagnose.

If you are sure your wires are all routued to the right spot, we could assume its a coincidence and the tune up has nothing to do with it.

When it starts are runs, does it act any differently? Are there any stored DTC's? Check engine light on?

Whats funny is mine did something like this and it turned out being my fuel pump. Mine ran fine one day to work, after work it wouldn't start much more than a few chugs. Came back a few hours later and it started and I drove it home with not problems. Got home and would not start for anything. Had no fuel pressure.

Next time it doesn't start for sake of arguement, take your fist and smack the bottom of the fuel tank as close to the center as you can. See if it starts.

[TimmyGTP02]

I wasn't having these problems before I changed the wires. For the fuel filter when I was going to get it replaced they told me that the gas coming out of it was pretty clear so it wasn't dirty. I know the fuel filter that's on there is the original. Just about 118k on my car now. When I looked up the firing order to make sure that the wires are going to the correct spots they said that it's 1-3-5 on the front and 2-4-6 on the back going left to right.
I just started it today about 10 minutes ago and it popped right off and ran for 5 minutes again and did one little chug then ran for about 15 seconds and just died without any more chugs or anything. Hopefully it's not a fuel pump but I hate to think that it is because it would be just my luck that it goes out the day after I changed all of this stuff
Oh and no engine codes come on at all and I don't know how to check resistance on the wires.... Totally lost with that stuff lol

[rkvons]

When you go out to start your car, you should hope you're in a quiet location and leave your radio, fan, etc. off. You put your key in and turn it to the "run" position. You should hear the fuel pump run a couple of seconds to prime the system. If this initial prime does not happen, it will not start. So listen for this tell-tale sign of the pump priming and see if it ends up not happening just before a failed start attempt. If so, do what Tim suggested and rap on the fuel tank with your fist and see if it will start. This will point to a bad fuel pump. Of course, you could get a fuel pressure gauge and check it that way when it is acting up on you.

[olopezm]

I would agree with the fuel pump too, but also I would like to point you to check the fuel pump relay going bad, most electric components can be intermittent.

Swap it with another one from the fuse box at the engine compartment or get a new one from the store and install it, run the car a few times and see if your problem goes away ; after all they are cheap components.

Best regards,

Oscar.

[TimmyGTP02]

Could it possibly be a charcoal vent solenoid? I pulled off the engine cover and started it and it ran for the usual 5 minutes or so and died and before it did there was some rapid clicking noises coming from this part. I wrote down the number on it and googled it and someone said that's what it was called. After the car died I started it again and let it run and it did the same thing, ran for a few minutes then that thing started clicking and then a few minutes later it died. Except this time it didn't chug which is weird. It died almost as if someone simply turned the key off.

[TimmyGTP02]

Well I called the dealer about that charcoal vent solenoid or whatever it is and they said that shouldn't cause the car to not start or die. He said it controls the mixture or flow of the air and gas...... Wouldn't that cause it to die if it was bad lol? I'm sitting here talking to the guy and if it's not getting enough gas to air it should die right? Not so sure that I should be taking advice from that guy but the search continues.
I'm going to try to get that fuel filter done and then do the relay like Oscar said and hope for the best here!

[TimmyGTP02]

So I've got a new development which probably isn't good. I started it and ran for a few minutes then started chugging but didn't die and there was some smoke coming from the back of the engine and it smelled really really bad like sulfur or something like that. Almost like the smell of when you've been lighting off fireworks for a while but it was worse than that.
What the hell.........

[olopezm]

Originally Posted by TimmyGTP02

Well I called the dealer about that charcoal vent solenoid or whatever it is and they said that shouldn't cause the car to not start or die. He said it controls the mixture or flow of the air and gas...... Wouldn't that cause it to die if it was bad lol? I'm sitting here talking to the guy and if it's not getting enough gas to air it should die right? Not so sure that I should be taking advice from that guy but the search continues.
I'm going to try to get that fuel filter done and then do the relay like Oscar said and hope for the best here!

That's true, the vent solenoid has nothing to do with your problem, it's part of the EVAP system and will only allow/restrict the amount of air flowing through the system. There is a purge solenoid and is also part of this system and will allow/restrict the flow of vacuum being drawn from the engine to suck the fuel vapor stored in the canister, it is stored to improve fuel economy and keeping it from being vented into the atmosphere.

Originally Posted by TimmyGTP02

So I've got a new development which probably isn't good. I started it and ran for a few minutes then started chugging but didn't die and there was some smoke coming from the back of the engine and it smelled really really bad like sulfur or something like that. Almost like the smell of when you've been lighting off fireworks for a while but it was worse than that.
What the hell.........

Did you see any black smoke coming out from the exhaust?, as far as I know the sulphur smell can indicate a blocked catalytic converter; if you have a vacuum gauge you can use to measure the vacuum at the intake manifold, also a back pressure tester will work but that one should be connected to the exhaust pipe; if you don't have access to any of those you could try temporarily removing the upstream HO2 sensor and see if the car will run better/longer. Is cat converter glowing red or feels very hot when your car starts to sputter?

Best regards,

Oscar.

[richtazz]

If you're still running the factory catalytic converter, chances are it's your issue. GM extended the warranty on 01-02 W-bodies (your car included) due to a known issue with the substrate breaking off and clogging the exhaust. Regretfully, that warranty extension was only for 7 years/120k miles and has since expired.

[TimmyGTP02]

Oscar, I will have to check the cat converter to see if it's red or getting really hot while it's running. As far as the smoke coming out of the tail pipes I wasn't really looking. I was so worried about the smoke coming from the engine that I wasn't paying any attention to anything else.
The only thing about the converter going bad is wouldn't it trigger a check engine code or something? My wifes Grand Am had a bad converter and the check engine light was always coming on and that thing ran fairly fine until we got it fixed.
I have a buddy coming to check out the car this weekend. I don't really dare to mess around with it anymore until then. I'll probably just break something so after he comes and checks it out I'll post an update. Thank you everyone for your help and suggestions. I really appreciate it!

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by TimmyGTP02

Could it possibly be a charcoal vent solenoid? I pulled off the engine cover and started it and it ran for the usual 5 minutes or so and died and before it did there was some rapid clicking noises coming from this part. I wrote down the number on it and googled it and someone said that's what it was called. After the car died I started it again and let it run and it did the same thing, ran for a few minutes then that thing started clicking and then a few minutes later it died. Except this time it didn't chug which is weird. It died almost as if someone simply turned the key off.

The one at the engine compartment is the evaporative emissions purge solenoid. The vent solenoid is located back at the evap charcoal cannister area.

You could have a bad MAF sensor. Especially since you are getting smoke out the exhaust or a fuel rich condition. Is it dark or black smoke? The color is important.

[tblake]

I agree with Bob, Try disconnecting the MAF sensor and see if it will idle and run like that. The SES light will come on with it disconnected but that is normal.

The smoke you had from the engine compartment could be anything. You just chaged the plugs, could you have gotten some grease or oil on your exhaust manifolds? Cause that will cause it to smoke.

[TimmyGTP02]

Well Bob and Tim I started the car today with out the MAF plugged in and it ran for about 20 minutes without it killing. I then plugged it back in and the engine idled up and down for a few seconds and then idled just fine for another 5 minutes or so. It didn't die at all today, I know last year when my MAF did fail and I had to get another one the car killed as I was accelerating down the road and then wouldn't start for and hour at a time so if it is the MAF this time again it's not following last times symptoms.
I'm no expert but if the car was running fine today with it unplugged and then plugged back in wouldn't that cause you to think that's not the problem? Hell if I didn't know any better by the way it was running today I wouldn't know there was a problem. I can't remember who asked me but when that smoke was coming out of the compartment it was white-ish in color. There wasn't any black smoke from what I saw and like Tim said I could've just got something on the exhaust. No lights came on today though either when I ran it with the MAF unplugged.