They want the world to believe THEY are peaceful...

[blazee]

Originally Posted by curtis73

I'm such a hyprcite

Then you've come to the right place, this thread is a magnet for hypocrites and bigots.

[thegladhatter]

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

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Do all those links go to what YOU would call "prominent" muslim leaders? I think not. They are ALL in the UK! Until the UK is REALLY a muslim state I don't think they count.

If I was living in downtown Mecca, I think my rhetoric would have to be adjusted. Likewise for these guys.

[BNaylor]

It is easy to put out a press release condemning the acts of Islamic extremists/terrorists or give lip service for obvious reasons since saying bad things about Islam from the believers viewpoint is technically blasphemy but I don't think it will change the negative publicity or perception in the U.S. One of the biggest Islamic Centers in the U.S. put out the following, however, it has a dubious past and may still be on a U.S. Government watch list or at least some members of it. So what does it really mean. In the meantime the U.S. would be foolish to let its guard down since we are still in two wars which have no end in sight for now.

Dar Al Hijrah Denounces Terrorism

The Dar Al Hijrah Islamic Center states clearly that those who commit acts of terror, murder and cruelty in the name of Islam are not only destroying innocent lives, but are also betraying the values of the faith they claim to represent. No injustice done to Muslims can ever justify the massacre of innocent people, and no act of terror will ever serve the cause of Islam. We repudiate and dissociate ourselves from any Muslim group or individual who commits such brutal and un-Islamic acts. We refuse to allow our faith to be held hostage by the criminal actions of a tiny minority acting outside the teachings of both the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.

Link to Article

Source: Washington Post
Imam From Va. Mosque Now Thought to Have Aided Al-Qaeda

Link to Article

[drunken monkey]

Originally Posted by thegladhatter

Do all those links go to what YOU would call "prominent" muslim leaders? I think not. They are ALL in the UK!

So the combined heads of the Mosques/Islamic community of the UK don't count for anything.

Doen that mean that Bishops outside of the Vatican don't count for anything either?

[thegladhatter]

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

So the combined heads of the Mosques/Islamic community of the UK don't count for anything.

Doen that mean that Bishops outside of the Vatican don't count for anything either?

Please....Please tell me you aren't serious! You don't. see a difference here!?!?
Talk about apples and oranges!! Am I debating with a door knob?!

[fredjacksonsan]

I think the last few posts serve to show the diversity within the Muslim community, which is not unlike the diversity in the Christian community. Let me know if you need specific examples if the following are not sufficient: Sunni and Shiite; Catholic(Roman and Eastern Orthodox), Lutheran, Mormon, Baptist and Anglican.

There ARE regional differences, both in beliefs, morals, outlooks, and behaviors. You can NOT categorize an entire people (no matter what people they are) with one simple statement.

[thegladhatter]

The point is...
Muslims will NOT talk their homies down in a non-muslim state. Catholic leadership hasn't been in a position where their defense of their religion would render them an ass beating. Sunni/shiite.....catholic/protestant is irrelevant.

[fredjacksonsan]

Originally Posted by thegladhatter

The point is...
Muslims will NOT talk their homies down in a non-muslim state. Catholic leadership hasn't been in a position where their defense of their religion would render them an ass beating. Sunni/shiite.....catholic/protestant is irrelevant.

First of all, are you using the word "homies" as a derogative term for an individual of a certain race? If you are, then may I suggest you re-read the user guidelines before you earn yourself a ban, and keep a civil tongue in your head. Remember: you are attacking ideas, not the person or people putting out those ideas.

Now. I have spoken to Muslims that said they believed that certain actions by Muslim radicals were wrong, so I therefore disagree heartily about your first sentence above.

Your second sentence is also incorrect. Many Catholic leaders have been killed for their beliefs and defense of same. Check your history, or have a read of the Bible. It's all in there brother.

Please explain to me why you believe that referencing different sects of the same religion is irrelevant to this discussion. In case you missed it, I was using that as an example of why a group of people cannot be simply described with one statement.

Here, let me state it in simpler terms so you'll get it. Let's take the statement:

All Muslims are terrorists bent on killing others.


There, that should get to the heart of the argument. The simple fact that we are here proves that not all Muslims are terrorists bent on killing others. Why? Because as has been so aptly put earlier, there are numerous examples of Muslim terrorists using bombs to blow themselves up, taking 20 or 30 people with them. The worldwide population is just over 6 billion (link) The worldwide Muslim population is estimated at 1.5 Billion (link)

Now if all Muslims were terrorists bent on killing others, then we can postulate that those 1.5 billion souls could easily take out, say, 10 people each. That makes 15 billion people, which is more than the entire population of the world. The simple fact that we are here discussing this proves that not ALL Muslims are terrorists bent on killing others and Q.E.D. that you cannot classify any group with a single statement.

Your turn.

[thegladhatter]

Again....the point I was making dealt with the proximity of the muslims condemming the actions of the extremists. I wouldn't be stupid enough to go to Mecca and talk a lot of smack. They don't. Want a beat down any more than I do. That's all I was saying.

[fredjacksonsan]

Originally Posted by thegladhatter

Again....the point I was making dealt with the proximity of the muslims condemming the actions of the extremists. I wouldn't be stupid enough to go to Mecca and talk a lot of smack. They don't. Want a beat down any more than I do. That's all I was saying.

So now you're saying that Muslims won't go to Mecca and say that other Muslims are doing wrong? I thought you said that Muslims outside of their countries "don't talk smack" about it.

Please clarify.

[thegladhatter]

Originally Posted by fredjacksonsan

So now you're saying that Muslims won't go to Mecca and say that other Muslims are doing wrong?
.

Do you think that in Mecca they would need to condemn them? I think they'd sing their praises. No need to condemn them on their own turf. In Mecca it would be me that would have to be careful. Talking smack. I'd get my ass stoned in that peaceful state.

[fredjacksonsan]

OK, I understand what you're saying now, and agree that if you went to Mecca and started trash talking Islam it would be a bad situation. But wouldn't that situation be the same in many other cultures also? If I go to downtown Dublin and go to the wrong bar and talk trash I'll get my butt handed to me. By extension, it's pretty much the same thing almost everywhere in the world [with of course some exceptions].

[CL8]

Originally Posted by blazee

I'm having a hard time understanding, please explain to me how studying science, history and religious texts to come to your own conclusions can be interpreted as someone being controlled.

Well, if you believe some of the lies taught in science history and religion, you will be under the control of those propagating those lies!
(global warming and environmentalism is one of the big lies to control the masses)

[CL8]

Originally Posted by mellowboy

Why should we? We're not held responsible for other people's actions. Just because they say they "represent" Islam doesn't mean it's true or they're right. Compare them to the majority of the Muslims and you will find the majority against them. Nothing in the Qur'an backs up there actions, in fact they're called hypocrites or criminals like it mentioned in the Qur'an. You need to get out there and talk to Muslims in person and reading help also.

I as a Christian will condemn the likes of those such as Jim Jones, Eric Rudolph and Westboro Baptist Church. Their actions are wrong, inspired by evil, not God, they do NOT represent the Christian religion in their actions in any way.

Now, if you want credibility as a Muslim, condemn those Muslims who Kill and torture innocent people in the name of the Muslim religion.

I happen to believe Muslims are secretly happy with the Muslim terrorists for their terrorism against Christians and others!

[CL8]

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

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It was looking good until I read this in link three:

"But the 22 imams and scholars stopped short of condemning all suicide bombings, saying those that target occupying forces in countries such as Israel and Iraq are sometimes justified."