Supercharge or turbocharge on a 2000 civic si?

[Evilwayz249]

I think i made up my mind and i think im going to get a 2000 honda civic si. so now comes the big question what is better for this car...a supercharge or turbo. i read lots of import mags and many have superchargers and many have turbos, what do u guys think? my friends say that they hate the lag that the turbos produce so they always go toward the supercharged. maybe you guys can help? thanks

[Si2000 Vtec]

A 2000 Civic Si is not the best motor to have forced induction on. With some basic tuning, the most boost you can run safely is 7psi. The reason for this is the high compression ration of this engine from the factory. However, if you do decide to go with a turbo or supercharger, I recommend a Vortech supercharger or an F-Max turbocharger kit. You can run a safe 6psi for a while and then when you are ready, rebuild the bottom-end of your engine to handle more boost.

Or you could build the Si motor the way its meant to be built -- all-motor. Throw a good set of Toda A's or Skunk Stage 1's in and some bolt-ons and your Si can run low 14's. It's all up to you.

[rockerdude]

I agree, basically all honda engine are not good with turbo but i hear stories about idiots using above 13 psi on a honda engine. building a b16a all motor is the only way to go with this engine.

[Si2000 Vtec]

basically all honda engine are not good with turbo

This is not true at all. It goes to say basically all VTEC honda engines are not good with turbo, but that also isn't entirely true. VTEC and forced induction can work hand-in-hand, but it requires reworking most of the motors internals, including cams, pistons, and rods.

On a naturally aspirated motor, you want the cams to have valve overlap -- meaning the intake and exhaust valves are open at the same time. This improves airflow drastically and increases power -- one of the attributes aftermarket cams offer. That is why cam manufacturers offer turbo cam profiles, to deminish valve overlap to make sure the boost is working properly. GSR cams work extremely well with boost coupled with aftermarket cam sprockets to dial out any form of overlap.

As far as nonVTEC motors, they all run much lower compression. For example, the B18B Integra LS motor is capable of running 12PSI on stock internals all day long with some tuning -- I've actually seen one guy running 20PSI on stock internals. Forced induction all boils down to tuning. You need larger injectors to meet the fuel demands and to fix idle problems as well as a good FMU unit (which isn't necessary due to the VAFC/FMU hack) -- www.homemadeturbo.com rocks.

Anyway, back to what I was saying in my first post. Honda developed their engines to be naturally aspirated -- it's as simple as that. They come from the factory with vavle overlap and high compression to make excellent power from small displacement. BUT, if you rebuild the motor correctly, you can run 15PSI daily all you want and not have a problem. It's all about how deep your pockets are and how serious you are about your car. Good luck.

[Evilwayz249]

thanks for all the info this helped me out a ton

[rockerdude]

but you're forgeting one thing, to use that much boost is to blow up your engine within months or even weeks. To make a perfect turbo honda engine is to replace internal parts which in the end it's not honda internal anymore. the money you waste to do that won't even help the slightest chance to beat a turbo nissan or toyota. I know because I've seen many high HP integ get beaten by those two certain company, I even saw a 500HP integ get whooped by a 450HP 240sx constantly.

[Si2000 Vtec]

Sorry dude, but your wrong. With the proper tuning, you can get at least a hundred thousand miles out of your honda engine when using forced induction. That's like saying a WRX motor won't last longer than a week or two... it's all about tuning! Non-VTEC motors can simply handle more boost because they have lower compression. 12-psi daily on an LS motor is perfectly safe with DSM 450CC injectors + Vortech FMU + boost controller all tuned up.

[Evilwayz249]

i have a question...im still new to import cars and i was wondering if i get a turbo for a civic then isnt there upgrades i can put on the turbos...like stages unlike the supercharge or em i way off????

[Si2000 Vtec]

Yes. There are different stages of turbo systems you can purchase, but your best bet is to peice together a used kit... It'll save you about a $1000. Also, you can customize many parts of the turbo kit to increase your horsepower; downpipe size, turbo manifold port, and many other things. Also, with a turbocharger, you can dial in the amount of boost you wish to run, whereas a supercharger you actually have to change a mechanical part.

This is also somewhat true with a supercharger. For example, with the Jackson Racing SuperCharger, you can purchase larger pulleys to increase your boost.

[jimmyfunk]

alright...we finally got back to the question at hand... Supercharge or Turbocharge.. looks like we went off on a tangent (like usual). It seems like the guy is pretty much set on what he wants to do...so lets help him make an informed decision on that...we all know that a Honda motor CAN run very successfully with Forced Induction. So which one do you guys think is the best way to go? First off, what exactly are you wanting out of the sytem? You can spend around $3,000 for a Jackson Racing Supercharger which runs about (i think of the top of my head) 5psi on the stock pulley. Which for the novice racer....is very reliable and maintenance free. If you don't know a whole lot about your engine (and how to fix it after you destroy it) this may be the way to go. But if you're looking for the most bang for the buck, it's probably a unanimous opinion that you can get more power out of a turbo if you know what you're doing. Remember that the supercharger is belt driven...(it will pull horsepower away from your engine)..while the turbo essentially powers itself from what your car is ridding itself of anyway (exhaust gases). While a turbo is not quite as easy as bolting a supercharger on (like the jackson racing setup)...it most likely will give you the best results for your money. As far as the turbo chargers go...you can buy a kit...or build a custom turbo...Once again...for the novice racer the kit may be a better idea. Sorry if I insulted your intelligence with anything above.....

[3SGTE]

I think you should go with all motor or supercharging as opposed to all motor. I'm sure there are ALOT of people who will disagree with me, and I too am looking forward to what they have to say about it. I have ridden in a turbo DX hatch, and came back with a smile on my face. I dont remember the turbo he was using, but it did pull very nicely. He ran 13's with slicks, but blew his headgasket many of times...I am weary of hearing people who run turboed hondas because it seems like you will eventually need a rebuild. At least the people who I know needed them. Nonetheless, you can't deny they are fast as hell if they are running right. Superchargers wont get as much power, but they wont have lag either. I have heard stories of people in MR2's hitting boost in the middle of turns and spinning out because of it. But because u got fwd, u will probably get alot of smoke. All motor also wont be as fast as a turbo, but I do think that Honda motors are designed for it. The company most definatly has the technology to build turbos, but I just think they want to be different. Its alot harder to run 13's with an all motor than a turbo, and i think it would give you more credibility if you did it with all motor than a turbo.

Just my .02, GOOD LUCK MAN
Maurice

[Evilwayz249]

thanks bro...and it would be amazing if i ran 13 all motor...maybe its something that ill shoot for.