98 lumina ltz hydro locked

[signspinnert]

i feel like i got ripped off on this car. but im the dummy maybe.....

so i bought it with 171000 miles on it thinkin it would last til 200k or 230k on the 6th day I had it it wouldnt start....took it to garage and they said "what puddle did you drive thru" i never drove thru a puddle they said water got into the intake and went to the engine and bent rods and hydro locked it. so ive taken it to another garage and they said same thing and that i need new engine......the engine is a v6 3800...if i buy another one (engine) say with 90,000 miles am i making a safe purchase, do i need to customize the gaskets? my dad seems to think the head gaskets were leaking into the engine, or something to do with the coolant leaking into engine....what are the common problems that cause this besides driving thru a puddle cause it hadnt rained since i owned the car?
any help would be appreciated.....thanx in advance

[inafogg]

upper/lower intake manifold gaskets are an issue on these engines
what year is car
this would be anti-freeze not rain water
deffenitly want to replace on replacement engine

[jeffcoslacker]

The question is, did you tell the second shop what the first shop said, when you brought it in?

Never do that on a second opinion...let them draw their own conclusion...otherwise they'll just agree, if they think they can sell you an engine.

If not, then it's probably confirmed.

I have a hard time with:

1) Seeing enough coolant to hydrolock a motor, leaking in suddenly while sitting, so much that it won't start, and

2) A start attempt bending rods, even if the motor IS fulla water. Usually happens when you run through deep water w/engine running, and it sucks up a big snort. The starter alone doesn't have that kinda power.

Motors don't generally run fine one day and then end up split open internally and hydrolocked the next morning...either there's more to this story, or I'm suspicious of the diagnosis....

I had a Baretta 3.1 in the shop once that I towed in, she ran into flood water 3 feet deep on the road and swamped it. It was hydrolocked. Pulled the spark plugs out and turned it over to purge it, sounded OK, so we took a chance and changed the oil and put new plugs and air filter in...it started after several attempts, had some mild internal noise but I don't know what it sounded like before either...it had a lot of miles. Steamed out the pipe for a while then straightened up and ran fine. Towed an Infiniti Q45 the guy did the same thing...it sounded like a box of rocks cranking it...the cast pistons shattered when that cool water hit them.

[signspinnert]

yeah i let second shop know.....woops!!!maybe third opinion time....allthough i told second shop i would find my own engine....so replace intake/manifold on next engine!!!!? Ill be back tonight got to work....thank you so much tho...

[jeffcoslacker]

I mean I suppose it's possible that if you happened to have the extraordinary bad luck that the lower intake cracked wide open and coolant poured into the intake it might end up like that....otherwise you'd generally see coolant in one or two cyls and you'd suspect internal damage rather than a flooding event...so I'm assuming they saw coolant in all holes.

That begs the question why they weren't able to identify it as coolant, which seems to indicate the cooling system was filled with water only if that's what happened...this might have been your first clue something was very wrong when you bought it, if the coolant appeared to be all water or really rusty and trashy.

Possible the previous owner knew it had a problem, filled it with one of the liquid glass jacket sealer treatments and sold it as soon as it stopped blowing steam....and that temp repair finally failed catastrophically. I'm not trying to say the shops are trying to cheat you, just that this seems like a story with some hidden parts....

We may have a semantics issue that is at the crux...was it running, died and wouldn't RE-start, or you parked it and it was fine, then wouldn't start next time?

I don't know the extent of your ability, but if it was my car, I'd take the plugs out and purge it, install new plugs and see if it would start, then slowly fill it with coolant while running and try to get a feel for where the damage lies. If it ran good, I'd consider simply repairing it in-car.

But I almost have to assume that it quit running while driving, and wouldn't restart, and they found it full of water. If that were the case, I would tell the customer of the POSSIBILITY or strong likelihood that there is rod/piston damage, but obviously I couldn't confirm this without either tearing it down or attempting to clear it and see if will crank and/or run....

[j cAT]

Originally Posted by signspinnert

i feel like i got ripped off on this car. but im the dummy maybe.....

so i bought it with 171000 miles on it thinkin it would last til 200k or 230k on the 6th day I had it it wouldnt start....took it to garage and they said "what puddle did you drive thru" i never drove thru a puddle they said water got into the intake and went to the engine and bent rods and hydro locked it. so ive taken it to another garage and they said same thing and that i need new engine......the engine is a v6 3800...if i buy another one (engine) say with 90,000 miles am i making a safe purchase, do i need to customize the gaskets? my dad seems to think the head gaskets were leaking into the engine, or something to do with the coolant leaking into engine....what are the common problems that cause this besides driving thru a puddle cause it hadnt rained since i owned the car?
any help would be appreciated.....thanx in advance

I agree you cannot bend any engine internal parts by a cylinder filling with water. the starter does not have the power to do this.

Is this engine filled with dexcool or just some of that florida water ? these type of conditions occur because you dont require anti FREEZE most times in florida. with a good sized leak just put the tap water in ..

remove the plugs and inspect plugs. crank engine plugs removed see if it throws water out any cylinder or all cylinders. or should I say coolant ?

if the engine throws water out those spark plug holes this will require a new[used] engine. 3.8L engine is good but the coolant is in constant need of correct care. repairing would cost too much. try to get anothe used engine with some warrantee.

[signspinnert]

Originally Posted by jeffcoslacker

I mean I suppose it's possible that if you happened to have the extraordinary bad luck that the lower intake cracked wide open and coolant poured into the intake it might end up like that....otherwise you'd generally see coolant in one or two cyls and you'd suspect internal damage rather than a flooding event...so I'm assuming they saw coolant in all holes.

That begs the question why they weren't able to identify it as coolant, which seems to indicate the cooling system was filled with water only if that's what happened...this might have been your first clue something was very wrong when you bought it, if the coolant appeared to be all water or really rusty and trashy.

Possible the previous owner knew it had a problem, filled it with one of the liquid glass jacket sealer treatments and sold it as soon as it stopped blowing steam....and that temp repair finally failed catastrophically. I'm not trying to say the shops are trying to cheat you, just that this seems like a story with some hidden parts....

We may have a semantics issue that is at the crux...was it running, died and wouldn't RE-start, or you parked it and it was fine, then wouldn't start next time?

I don't know the extent of your ability, but if it was my car, I'd take the plugs out and purge it, install new plugs and see if it would start, then slowly fill it with coolant while running and try to get a feel for where the damage lies. If it ran good, I'd consider simply repairing it in-car.

But I almost have to assume that it quit running while driving, and wouldn't restart, and they found it full of water. If that were the case, I would tell the customer of the POSSIBILITY or strong likelihood that there is rod/piston damage, but obviously I couldn't confirm this without either tearing it down or attempting to clear it and see if will crank and/or run....

you said alot so i might need to refer to it. the whole story is. On wednesday night at 6:30 floored it and got it up to 80 then left off and it started sputtering a lil. then wouldnt pick up like it did before when you stepped on the gas and sputtered here and there for the rest of the drive home.....car sat 10 15 hours. had day off from work and opened hood and there was no coolant or very little, go to pep boys buy coolant and fill resivor to normal line. go to beach 8 miles away later in day and the gas not kickin in when you step on it is a lil more pronouced and happening more frequently...

I was looking for surf so i stopped and parked 4 different times. looked at coolant level 2nd time n it was gone again....duh!!! put other half of bottle in, the car was getting hot but not into red area or smokin in front, it smoked out the tail pipe a little twice. 4th time parked found a wave and surfed 2 hours and got out and it didnt start,.........

[inafogg]

i agree w/above but you may get lucky.i'd drain/change the oil/filter after you pull plugs as mentioned.dont fill radiator,maybe drain it if there is any left.
assuming you can manually turn engine 360,try to start car who knows
its worth a shot!!! the 3.8l is a good engine would'nt surprise me if u get lucky

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by signspinnert

you said alot so i might need to refer to it. the whole story is. On wednesday night at 6:30 floored it and got it up to 80 then left off and it started sputtering a lil. then wouldnt pick up like it did before when you stepped on the gas and sputtered here and there for the rest of the drive home.....car sat 10 15 hours. had day off from work and opened hood and there was no coolant or very little, go to pep boys buy coolant and fill resivor to normal line. go to beach 8 miles away later in day and the gas not kickin in when you step on it is a lil more pronouced and happening more frequently...

I was looking for surf so i stopped and parked 4 different times. looked at coolant level 2nd time n it was gone again....duh!!! put other half of bottle in, the car was getting hot but not into red area or smokin in front, it smoked out the tail pipe a little twice. 4th time parked found a wave and surfed 2 hours and got out and it didnt start,.........

That sounds like either one of the gaskets has blown, or there is a crack in the head or block.

This has allowed coolant into the combustion chamber and explains the white "smoke" (steam) you saw when driving along with the lack of power.
It sounds like this leak has gotten worse as you have continued to drive the car, until eventually it was able to fill one combustion chamber enough to prevent the car from starting.

The problem now is identifying how much damage has been done, and where the leak is.

If the engine still turns over by hand, it maybe ok.
But, note, water sitting in the combustion chamber can do a lot of damage to the cylinder lining and the piston.
I've seen a piston and rings rusted to the side of a cylinder lining after the engine sat for 3 months with a blown head gasket.
Surface pitting and damage can occur in only a few days.



Next step is to way up the cost of tearing the engine down from the top, or simply replacing it.



And, next time your car starts using coolant, getting it fixed is more important than going surfing.

[signspinnert]

Originally Posted by Moppie

And, next time your car starts using coolant, getting it fixed is more important than going surfing.

Dude your so right!!!! so im am going to shop today personally and askin them to take off all plugs, if i see the water/coolant come out i will ask them to try and turn engine 360. i educated myself on the internal workings of an engine the other night...

so i guess a leaky gasket would be better than a new used engine....

this is by far hands down the best forum ive ever been on. and ive been on alot of forums, this is my first auto forum!!!!!!! let yall knw what happens

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by signspinnert

this is by far hands down the best forum ive ever been on. and ive been on alot of forums, this is my first auto forum!!!!!!! let yall knw what happens

Cheers mate, we do try our best



Depending on which gaskets have gone, it might still be cheaper to put a used one instead.

Hopefully the shop is more helpful this time, remember they think in car terms, and cars, like surfing, have thier own language

[signspinnert]

so i paid the shop 25 bucks to pull the plugs, they said
1. no water came out
2. it wouldnt turn over
3. your engine is shot.

so instead of continuing with this engine ill try to find a new one (used) ive heard the upper intake cracks and coorrodes on the 3.8 gm engine 2000 and older so i plan on replacing that too on the next engine. I like the shop its at because they will finance the repair at a great rate. I can be driving my car and paying for it.
If i buy a used engine Im gonna make sure i get a warranty of some sort......

[inafogg]

sorry to hear the bad news
as far as warranties go on used parts,junk yards,usually go 30 days
thats all & your shop will probally have the same.
if you purchase the engine & it fails with in the warranty period
they give you another but the labor is on you
just so you understand
Good luck n good surfing

[signspinnert]

Originally Posted by inafogg

sorry to hear the bad news
as far as warranties go on used parts,junk yards,usually go 30 days
thats all & your shop will probally have the same.
if you purchase the engine & it fails with in the warranty period
they give you another but the labor is on you
just so you understand
Good luck n good surfing

I can pull one myself for 308.00 out the door at a salvage yard in Osprey.
Nearer to me at jacksons he has got one for 450.00 on a shelf with 70k.
I called my mechanic and he said these guys are well known and good. both places come with 30 day warranties.
shop said they will inspect before putting in....what else do i need to know. =?
My budget is about 1000.00 and car needs to last till 2014..lol

[signspinnert]

engine is in and car is running...but heat sensor is broke air dont work and they lost my CD face plate.....stoopid i left it in there.......Car drives good I need a bearing next..