68 Toro dies intermittently

[jtmarten]

A friend has a 68 Toro that has been giving problems lately. Once it starts to warm up, it'll randomly die while driving. Fires right back up, then a little while later dies again. I noticed the gen light coming on just before it dies, thought maybe the voltage regulator was bad. Replaced it with no change. We replaced the HEI coil today in hopes it would solve the problem, but it still dies.
I'm leaning towards the starter solenoid being bad, but I'm not sure if all the power is routed through it or not. Has to be something the ignition is routed through.
Any ideas?

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by jtmarten

A friend has a 68 Toro that has been giving problems lately. Once it starts to warm up, it'll randomly die while driving. Fires right back up, then a little while later dies again. I noticed the gen light coming on just before it dies, thought maybe the voltage regulator was bad. Replaced it with no change. We replaced the HEI coil today in hopes it would solve the problem, but it still dies.
I'm leaning towards the starter solenoid being bad, but I'm not sure if all the power is routed through it or not. Has to be something the ignition is routed through.
Any ideas?

Gen light comes on before it dies? What is the idle speed?

HEI problems? Second half of this article. Actually sounds like it might be a defective pickup coil. You DID replace the resistor wire when the HEI was installed...right?
http://www.chevelles.com/techref/ftecref5.html

I doubt the starter solenoid is the cause, as the solenoid does not provide power to a points ignition except during cranking. Does not provide power to an HEI ignition at all.

[jtmarten]

I don't know if the resistor wire was replaced. He had an electronic pickup installed in the original distributor in the past. I'll have to check voltage at the dist next time I'm over there, I'll check the wire gauge too.
He says the stalling is becoming more frequent, shorter interval between stalls, so whatever is failing is quickly moving towards complete failure.
Thanks for the info and link!

[jtmarten]

As a follow up, he says it would stall in a similar manner occasionally prior to the HEI install, but after the electronic pickup was installed in the original dizzy. Still don't know about the resistor wire.

If the resistor wire is still installed, what should the voltage drop at the dizzy be?
Thanks!

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by jtmarten

As a follow up, he says it would stall in a similar manner occasionally prior to the HEI install, but after the electronic pickup was installed in the original dizzy. Still don't know about the resistor wire.

If the resistor wire is still installed, what should the voltage drop at the dizzy be?
Thanks!

Is this engine running a REAL HEI, or is it using some electronic conversion kit?

Resistor wire installed, engine running = about 8--10 volts at the coil + terminal. Engine NOT running--might be full battery voltage. A REAL HEI will work best at battery voltage with engine running: 14--15 volts.

[jtmarten]

Running an aftermarket HEI.
I'll get a chance later in the week to stop by and check the static and running voltage to the HEI.
Thanks!

[jtmarten]

I had the chance to stop and check the voltage. With car not running, 12.1v at the battery, 12.01 at the HEI + terminal. If the resistor wire was still there, it should show more than a 0.09v drop.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by jtmarten

If the resistor wire was still there, it should show more than a 0.09v drop.

Depends on the amount of current flow.

I'd want to know the voltage WHILE RUNNING as that's the important value.

How big is the power wire to the HEI? Should be 12-gauge.

[jtmarten]

I checked it while running today. Kind-of strange, getting 10.3v at idle in park, but in drive at idle, 11.2v. I found that someone in the past spliced into the power feed for the dizzy. I'll have to see where the splice goes and kill it. They used a butt connector for the splice, which may have had some corrosion in it. Its the only thing I've messed with since the last time he drove it, and it drove fine today, before it would start dying after 3-4min. Minimally, I'm going to remove the butt connector, and solder/shrink tube the connection.
Thanks for all the help!

[jtmarten]

We dove it again last weekend. It took about 15min of drive time before it died. After that, it started dying at a faster rate. Noticed something this time though - the blower motor was on, and when the engine died, ALL power was lost, so its not a localized power loss at the HEI. As always, while still coasting, put it in N and she fires right back up.
There shouldn't be much between the battery and ignition switch, but that car has small electrical modules all over the place, I'm not sure what most of them do, how they're routed, or if they're even from the factory build.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by jtmarten

I checked it while running today. Kind-of strange, getting 10.3v at idle in park, but in drive at idle, 11.2v.

You'll want to repair the harness so that the HEI gets within 1/4 volt of battery voltage.

With the engine running, you'll be at--or close to--14 volts at the HEI power connector.

Originally Posted by jtmarten

We dove it again last weekend. It took about 15min of drive time before it died. After that, it started dying at a faster rate. Noticed something this time though - the blower motor was on, and when the engine died, ALL power was lost, so its not a localized power loss at the HEI. As always, while still coasting, put it in N and she fires right back up.
There shouldn't be much between the battery and ignition switch, but that car has small electrical modules all over the place, I'm not sure what most of them do, how they're routed, or if they're even from the factory build.

Yep, that is indeed strange. I can't think of anything that would kill electrical power but allow the engine to re-start.

When confronted with weird stuff like this, I suggest beginning by having someone perform a complete starting/charging system test: Battery open circuit voltage, battery load test, starter draw, alternator output, voltage drop tests of the starter and alternator, and parasitic drain of the battery including cleaning the battery case so it won't self-discharge across the conductive slime between the battery posts.

[maxwedge]

Stalling when coasting can be caused by carb and idle control solenoid functions. Also check the ign switch harness at the connector for burnt contacts, common on those year GM cars.

[Scrapper]

Originally Posted by jtmarten

A friend has a 68 Toro that has been giving problems lately. Once it starts to warm up, it'll randomly die while driving. Fires right back up, then a little while later dies again. I noticed the gen light coming on just before it dies, thought maybe the voltage regulator was bad. Replaced it with no change. We replaced the HEI coil today in hopes it would solve the problem, but it still dies.
I'm leaning towards the starter solenoid being bad, but I'm not sure if all the power is routed through it or not. Has to be something the ignition is routed through.
Any ideas?

is the gen lite real dim when it does this? i would do away with gen and wire it up with a alt or do you want to keep it orginal?

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by Scrapper

is the gen lite real dim when it does this? i would do away with gen and wire it up with a alt or do you want to keep it orginal?

GM vehicles haven't used the old style "generator" since at least the early '60's.

They may have a "generator" light on the dashboard, but there'll be an early-style diode-rectified alternator under the hood. My '66 now has an internally-regulated later-style alternator, and the original regulator is bypassed. (Better charging at low engine speed/idle)

Seems I read somewhere that "alternator" was a Chrysler trademark. I'm not sure that's true, though.

[jtmarten]

Originally Posted by maxwedge

Stalling when coasting can be caused by carb and idle control solenoid functions. Also check the ign switch harness at the connector for burnt contacts, common on those year GM cars.

It stalls at all speeds, just seems more pronounced when coasting. Carb issue wouldn't cause a complete loss of power.

He's having the car trailered to a shop today to have the entire electrical system checked.