My new engine is installed 1995 3.8L

Well, after burning up the forum with posts a few weeks back after I broke down due to overheating (needed new radiator, new water pump, new tstat) while towing I took a break for a while when I sent in my Windstar for its NEW ENGINE installation.

I have some questions I need input on so for those of you that followed most of this already and don't want to read all this skip down to the bottom section of this post.

To stay true to how I am and to hopefully help people out I'm going to try to wrap everything all up in this thread.

Here are the links to various related threads in this forum that apply regarding issues I decided to tackle or just research along with the new engine installation:

Thermostat replacement with lower temp opening setting (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=760829) (big thread; more than the title says)

New Engine Break In 1995 3.8L (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=765995)

Vehicle Speed Sensor and "General Info" sticky (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=766311)

Biggest transmission cooler the 95-98 will allow (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=765650)

Transmission Speed Sensor Discrepency (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=764692)

Body and subframe separation fix: Insulators WHERE? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=763484)

rocker arm / adjust valves (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=765941)

Opinions of value for private sale after new tranny and engine - 1995 Windstar 3.8L (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=762787)

The Fastest and Furious Windstars :) (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=763247)

Cruise control no worky in 95 GL (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=763445)

Choosing between a like new 2003 LX or 2000 SE Windstar (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=763131)

Captains chairs or Bucket Seats into 2nd row of 95 GL (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=763198)

Revving in PARK produces odd shutter/shake 3500 - 4000rpms (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=763248)

EXTREMELY Squeaky pulley (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=644741)

AX4S Transmission Interchangeability 1995 - 2000 (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=762503)

Brake Pressure Switch and Cruise Control (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=760741)

96-98 engine in a 95 with AX4S transmission (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=760722)

95 3.8L water pump replacement procedure? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=760645)


Here is my parts replacement list that I handed to my trusted shop to do along with the new engine installation and is a result of what I learned from the above threads and that I should probably take care of because after all if I'm installing a new engine I want the vehicle to run AS NEW as possible:

Migration/Keep LIST
Water pump (brand new)
Power Steering Pump (new within 2 years)
Belt (is new)
Belt Tensioner (new)
Idler Pulley (fairly new; within a year)
Motor Mounts (only 2 years/20k miles old)
All Sensors
Oil pan
A/C Compressor (leave system closed if at all possible) Definitely DO LIST
Engine (ha ha; provided) *FORD TSB # 02-1-9 states that SAE 5W-20 oil is recommended for all Windstar years, 3.8L. Unless the new engine condition calls for a different weight please use the 5W-20.
Pilot Bushing
Felpro / Oil Pan Gasket is RTV + real oil pan seal (provided)
Lower intake manifold gasket kit (provided)
New Plugs (provided); gap to .054”)
New OEM temp thermostat (provided)
Lower/Upper (8 qty) crossmember (subframe to body) bushings (known trouble spot in 95-96 years and I have the body/subframe play on mine) (provided)
Sway Bar bracket bushings (provided)
Tie Rod Ends (provided)
Lower Control Arms w/ Ball Joints which connect to #5 below (provided)
Strut Rod Bushings kit to FRAME (provided)
A/C Clutch ONLY (provided; don’t break open system if you don’t have to)
Vehicle Speed Sensorplus change out the gear it attaches to (provided)
Neutral Safety Switch (provided; aka Tranmission range sensor; transaxle range switch)
New Transmission Cooler (provided)
Lube new suspension parts and install fittings where provided
Front End Alignment DO if it looks like it needs it LIST
Sway Bar Links (provided)
Exhaust Ypipe w/ CATs; Please look inside CATs and see if they are melted or extremely clogged; (I will order one if need be; let me know)The above parts/directions list is exactly how I provided it to the shop so where I list "provided" are parts I gave them directly.

GOALS:
To get the van running and FEELING as new as I can. I already have new front brake calipers, rotors, and now the trusted shop put in new brake lines during the engine installation. I already had new shocks/struts too so it rides nice. Installing all the parts I have above are a result of searching these forums MOSTLY and other internet sources. I wanted to get rid of erratic shifting of the transmission at high speeds, the JOLTING when coming to a stop or starting up from a dead stop as well as when in turns, I wanted my cruise control to work again, wanted speedo to stop dancing around, wanted the a/c to stop making the moaning noise and not take as long to kick on, wanted all CHURPING sounds from pulleys/belt to go away, and lastly I wanted a NEW ENGINE installed of course.

RESULTS (3 weeks later after claiming it was running didn't get it till 4 days later meaning they had 4 days to run it to see if there were problems):

I am very happy and a lil disturbed at the same time. SUCKS.

THE GOOD: First off the van drives WONDERFULLY like a NEW van.... just as I had hoped. The erratic shifting is GONE, the speedo isn't bobbling all over anymore, the cruise control works for the first time since I've owned it, the herky jerky at starts/stops is gone which was EXTREMELY aggravating, it accelerates fine, the a/c kicks on a lil quicker and didn't have to pop open the system, and it now has a very firm feel on the road and in turns. Overall the van DRIVES and FEELS FINE.... GREAT in fact compared to the past..... but that is the FEEL part of it alone.... not the visual or audio part. lol

THE BAD and the UGLY: I was debating replacing the Cat Converter Y-Pipe and I got little input on whether I should from my trusted shop. At first they said it should be replaced if I saw it glow red (which I did) and then another day they said to leave it until we know its bad which you wouldn't know until the new engine was in. I have looked at it a few times and once at night since getting it back and its NOT glowing red down there so I can only assume things are flowing out the exhaust as they should but I am skeptical because of the following stuff.

ENGINE TAPPING - TO ME (and I've heard plenty of healthy engines) the engine just does NOT SOUND RIGHT. I don't know if this is normal for a NEW engine or what the deal is, but it just does NOT sound right. It almost reminds me of the sound I heard on the old engine after it had overheated. The new engine came with a full new long block so any thought of any old part of the engine being there should be out of the mind.... but it just sounds similar to the old engine ONLY after it had overheated. The old engine before overheating sounded and ran fine without this TAPPING sound. I asked the mechanic who put the engine in and he said that some engines do it and some don't. I mean is it really that simple???? or could the TIMING be off or something?

OIL PRESSURE or OIL LEVEL or BOTH - I do not know what weight oil they put in the engine, but I do know its over-filled (something I hate that shops do) maybe by 1/4 to 1/2 quart. The engine oil pressure light (I guess thats what it is) or oil LEVEL light (looks like a lil oil tipping container with an oil drop off its end) keeps FLICKERING and seems to do this ONLY when at IDLE in Drive or in Park. I've never seen a dash light FLICKER like this so I am hoping its the sensor just needing adjustment.

WHINING after shutting it off after having driven 5 to 10 miles or less even. I have heard this sound somewhere on YouTube and I think it was a Windstar. The guy would shut off his engine and you'd hear this WHINE sound as if someone was slowly letting air out of a balloon when you'd squeeze the lips of one together to make that sound. A person on YouTube said this was the guys CAM going bad. IF THIS IS TRUE THIS IS REALLY GONNA PISS ME OFF.. LOL ... SINCE ITS A NEW ENGINE. It will not do this whine if I just run it in place.... it'll only do it after I drive it around a few miles and maybe even after up to 70mph for a bit. I used to hear this SAME EXACT SOUND with the old engine, BUT ONLY after driving in excess of 200 - 300 miles of continuous travel. All I used to think back then was that the damn thing was just OLD and needed a COOL off break. Does ANYONE have any idea on this?

A/C CLUTCH metal rubbing noise - I don't know if this is just normal break-in for a new a/c clutch ASSEMBLY (all parts of it; the kit), but there appears to be a sliding/skimming metal sound when the clutch kicks OFF (not ON). This is normally heard at IDLE only and when I move along in DRIVE it goes away. NORMAL for new? or Not properly torqued bolts on this?

CHURPING - THE MYSTERIOUS pulley/belt churping is BACK after I had finally f'ing eliminated it before bring it back to the trusted shop for engine installation. ALL PULLEYS are NEW now except the alternator pulley and perhaps the crank pulley which I guess got transferred over from the old engine. The went and bought a new belt even though I already had a new belt on there and told them so on the list and in person. I don't know what made them think the churping was gone cause it certainly isn't but even though the engine was in misfire and overheating condition when I brought it back to them it NO LONGER SQUEAKED or CHURPED after the water pump had been replaced at the FORD dealership in Mississippi where I originally got stuck. After all this money put in I almost want to replace the alternator or just its pulley just to see if the damn squeaking/churping will go away.

In the 4 days they claimed they had to drive the van after telling me it was running they only drove it 13 miles. I don't even know if they took it out on the interstate, but I cannot see how they would've done a thorough inspection not having noticed what I have. After what I have spent (and it was more than they'd told me cause they found other things that were definitely in need of replacing like the brake lines, rad hoses, etc..) I would've expected perfection, but I guess thats stupid cause its never the case.

QUESTIONS:

Basically what all could cause the stuff from the above section (The Bad and the Ugly)? I would like to have some ideas of what to tell the shop when i bring the van back on Monday morning.

What REALLY gets me though is that I cannot complain AT ALL because there is nothing to complain about as far as the van's OPERATING ability is concerned. It is simply not PHYSICALLY doing ANYTHING wrong. It drives/feels beautifully now, but these things of course in the BAD section bother me. I want to SCREAM MAN..... but I almost have no emotion left about all of this.

Quite a complete vehicle overhaul. That flickering oil light would give concern. Did the new long-block come with an oil pump? It would
be worth having the mechanic confirm your oil pressure with a mechanical
gauge to see if it is within specifications.

I also am concerned about the flickering oil lamp.
I would get it back to them to have it checked out ASAP.

The moaning sound after shut down......You might see if it does that with the A/C not having been run on that trip.
It could be the pressure in the A/C system equalizing.
Also, verify that your heater controls will move the air to the various locations, defrost (default if there is no vaccum), floor, and vent.
These controls are vaccum driven, and there is a resivoir box located right next to the A/C accumulator (aka drier) that holds a vaccum after the engine is shut down......to hold the heater selection in place.
The temperature adjust is electrical, so that is separate from the vaccum driven controls.....and not likely the cause of the noise.

Thanks guys.

I was worried about this oil light. The new engine DID come with an new oil pump, but this engine was apparently the ONLY one left that they had in stock. I'm wondering how long it was sitting there on their shelf and/or if the system was primed right before the installer started it up.

What do ya'll think about the ENGINE TAPPING?

I wonder if its the Camshaft Position Sensor with that whining..... although I did do what ya'll said tonight... I didn't run the a/c at all and I did not hear the whine when the car was shut off.... if it is the a/c though wouldn't that mean that something (drier?) is clogged up or something else in the A/C?

What if the defrost thingy doesn't blow the heat in all the directions it should? What does this probably mean is broke and needs to be done?

Someone on another site told me they think the A/C clutch isn't properly shimmed to hear it rubbing like I do. To reshim it they're gonna have to take off the belt again and I think I'm going to have them refund my money on the new belt they put on because I had already bought a new belt and put it on recently.

They tried to bandaid the churping I'm hearing too blindly with a new belt saying to me they thought radiator fluid had gotten on it when I overheated, but I look at this as a blind replacement tactic HOPING it would resolve the issue and not really knowing for sure. No one wants to take the time anymore to find these things out even if you do pay them insane amounts of money. I'm very suspect that its the alternator pulley and if its not then it has to be the crank pulley cause thats the only one left. Does this sound like good logic to ya'll? Is there anything else spinning? Does the camshaft position sensor spin?

I was thinking that the moaning sound was after the engine was shut down.
If it is only while it is running, then it could be something else.
There was a TSB about moaning in HOT weather with the A/C on that was caused by a harmonic frequency with the pulleys and belt......The solution was to replace the A/C clutch pulley with a slightly larger diameter one.
I suspect that this is why they now list 2 size belts form my '96 with A/C.
There is only 1/2" difference between the 2.
However, the problem was ONLY in very hot weather.

I would not worry about a refund on the drive belt....as it is pennies compared to the full bill.
A drive belt is about $30.

I would have the oil pressure light looked into before addressing the tapping and moaning sounds, as the sounds could be a result of low lubrication.
A low oil pressure indication is NOT good.

The Camshaft position sensor does NOT rotate, the gear & shaft rotate, and the sensor is stationary.
The sound that I have seen posts about on this forum, as relative to a sound from the camshaft position sensor have to do with noise from that shaft, called a synchronizer shaft.....and they put some oil into the shaft from the top, with the camshaft sensor removed.
Again, I would let the shop address it.

I'm very sick and tired of providing documentation that isn't read (like my parts list) which if they would've paid attention to they would've seen I didn't need a new belt (WHICH WAS A $56 GUESS that DID NOT WORK) and f'in $100 TIE ROD ENDS when I'd already provided them with $16 tie rod ends. This morning I'm dropping it off with my Dad's help again along with this note and the parts list AGAIN with the 2 items highlighted and circled. I figure if I don't face them then they HAVE TO READ the note:

*I need the van back as soon as possible as we are supposed to use it for a trip on the 22nd (Saturday)

UNFINISHED WORK & PROBLEMS SINCE ENGINE INSTALL:
OIL PRESSURE LIGHT FLICKERS - After a 5 minute drive on the interstate at 70mph and then through town for about 30 more minutes when coming to a stop or in park at IDLE the oil pressure light flickers on/off very quickly and eventually goes off completely. PLEASE CHECK THE OIL PRESSURE WITH A TESTING TOOL. SUGGEST DRIVING IT round-trip on interstate laplace exits and back to get the light to come on.
ENGINE DOES NOT SOUND RIGHT. It should not be tapping like it is. Suspect bad oil pressure. Timing right? What weight OIL was used? I wanted 5w20 as per the parts list I provided because that is what FORD calls for it now.
OIL LEVEL OVER FULL MARK by ¼ - ½ quart. Correct mistake.
A/C Clutch is not properly shimmed – metal rubbing metal; drags when clutch switches OFF; PLEASE MEASURE THE SPEC WIDTH FOR CLUTCH and correct mistake.
CHURPING FROM THE PULLEY SYSTEM - I WANT THIS GONE AS I DID NOT BRING IT IN WITH THIS PROBLEM. A GUESS was made to install a new belt where I already had a new belt installed so now I have 2 extra BACKUP belts and the churping is still there. IT WAS NOT THE BELT and for $55 I feel it was an unreasonable remedy as it did not work.
Suspect alternator pulley, crankshaft pulley, or water pump pulley as those are the only OLD ones left. Have heard of bearings failing in alternator pulley’s on these vans. I will deliver new alternator pulley to the shop for installation when you fix the A/C Clutch that is rubbing unless you can get an alternator pulley for $15 or less.
ALIGNMENT OFF – PULLS LEFT. Correct mistake.
Loud deminishing WHINE (like air coming out of a balloon mouth while stretched) comes from the van after turning it OFF. I have experimented with this and think it could be the A/C letting off air pressure. I just want to know if this is what it is. I do not have the money to contend with opening the a/c system and will be fine if I know it’s the A/C rather than the camshaft as I’ve heard a camshaft going bad can make this sound, but this doesn’t make sense since its NEW.
TIE ROD ENDS – I delivered tie rod ends to you in the parts box along with a PARTS LIST to avoid ONE HUNDRED DOLLAR tie rod ends and I saw after the fact they are on the bill. What happened to the tie rod ends I delivered?

It's hard not to be upset ... and its more difficult to buy good service.

I don't understand the comments about the ac compressor. If you think there is a problem with it you might just install a shorter belt that bypasses the compressor... as a test. The compressor may have to be unbolted from the engine and tied back ... but I doubt it. Do not open the refrigerant system ... not necessary. I don't know anything about "shimming" on the compressor ... if I ever have (almost never) a compressor issue, I just trade it for a rebuilt one. Compressor repair is too "specialized" for me to tool up and deal with.

Your earlier lists included a "pilot bushing" ... what's this?

It's hard not to be upset ... and its more difficult to buy good service.

I don't understand the comments about the ac compressor. If you think there is a problem with it you might just install a shorter belt that bypasses the compressor... as a test. The compressor may have to be unbolted from the engine and tied back ... but I doubt it. Do not open the refrigerant system ... not necessary. I don't know anything about "shimming" on the compressor ... if I ever have (almost never) a compressor issue, I just trade it for a rebuilt one. Compressor repair is too "specialized" for me to tool up and deal with.

Your earlier lists included a "pilot bushing" ... what's this?

If you are familiar with a magnetic clutch like the one used on some or most a/c compressors in cars today then you'd know that there are shims in place to space the clutch pieces apart properly. when the clutch engages the magnetism is ACTIVATED thus the pulley wheel grabs the clutch/hub and whatever other part is there to engage the compressor. I had them replace the a/c clutch with a kit that came in 3 pieces. Its up to the tech to ensure proper shim width of the clutch setup once its bolted together and its up to the tech to ensure proper operation of the clutch which he obviously did not do or just did not CARE.

I don't want to install a shorter belt to see if anything is wrong because I MYSELF should not have to after spending OVER $2000 to get all this crap done. It was initially going to cost about $1600 and then they added over $800 worth of stuff to do WITHOUT TELLING ME about how high it had gone first.

The engine is already installed and there is no need to unbolt the compressor again for dealing with the clutch on it and putting on a new clutch for the a/c is something that can be done without opening up the refrigerant.

A pilot bushing as I understand it goes between the engine and transmission and wears over time. A NEW one is REQUIRED to ensure warranty coverage when you get a reman engine. I was told I had to buy one and low and behold the new engine came with one and no one said anything. There were a couple parts like that that came with it that now I get to get my money back on, but it will come no where near close to what the shop raked in off me on this deal. While I have reviewed what they added to my already long list and I concur with what they replaced and why the point is still that they didn't discuss things with me say OHHH when it was going to go over the $2000 mark. Its a far cry from saying "around $1000 to install the engine" as they told me in the beginning. I figured the extra parts I wanted done too would bring it to $500 more.. but at the most $600 more... I told them to get the parts they needed WITHIN REASON and as far as I'm concerned they went out of bounds of reason when they went over $2000 all the while getting things I was told at another place I didn't need (like the RAD HOSES) cause mine were still good. They also charged me for f'in $100 TIE ROD ENDS when I'd already supplied them with ones I'd order for %80% CHEAPER. I may have said that already... sorry ya'll.. I am just a wee bit upset and I need sleep.

Hello

I know a "pilot bushing" is required on a manual transmision. The bushing wears when the engine is running transmission in gear and clutch is pushed in and the vehical is not moving.

I don't think your van has a manual trannie.

The only item that I could think of that should be replaced in between the engine and trannie would be the "front" seal in the trannie. If that goes out the trannie would have to be pulled to replace it.

Regards

Dan

Hello

I know a "pilot bushing" is required on a manual transmision. The bushing wears when the engine is running transmission in gear and clutch is pushed in and the vehical is not moving.

I don't think your van has a manual trannie.

The only item that I could think of that should be replaced in between the engine and trannie would be the "front" seal in the trannie. If that goes out the trannie would have to be pulled to replace it.

Regards

Dan

Well while I appreciate your post and info I don't wanna debate it. More than 1 engine remanufacturer stated to me I needed a new pilot bushing for between the engine and tranny for this application. It is an ATX of course and it was necessary. I don't have enough experience to know about these things ... all I know is that for one the DEMI-GOD of remanufactured engines/transmissions (JASPER) said I needed to ensure i got a new one of those too. Though I didn't buy from Jasper.. too expensive. Maybe I should have though. See next post.

Shop confirms low oil pressure. I think they Said it got down to 15 psi after a quick 5 minute interstate trip after coming to a stop or in park. So now the engine manufacturer has to be involved to pay for repairs to the engine just installed. I would assume its likely the oil pump is bad or something is blocking oil flow. The shop put in a new oil pressure sending unit to be sure and it wasn't that.

They also said they will be answering ALL of my other questions as well tomorrow morning.

I'm also a lil PO'ed about the spark plug gap. Various sources said to gap the autolite iridium plugs I bought at .054 (including the store bought from; Napa), but I just saw on the damn hood yesterday that I could've gone up to .056. I dunno if it really makes a noticeable difference, but I sure would like as much gap as possible for as much power as possible. Though maybe cause their iridium they're BETTER GAPPED at .054 like the Napa documentation said.

What about the cat on the rear bank.. if its clogged.... could this cause a low oil pressure situation? I had debated on replacing it till the new engine installation. It had in fact glowed red for about 100 miles on the way home due to misfiring cylinder. Though the van has ran since then with the new engine installed .... should I be considering this as a possible culprit?

I read elsewhere too that the alternator or battery could be going bad and cause the low oil pressure light to come on and I recall now after getting it back that it took a tiny big longer to start a couple times and I noticed it... thinking that it'd sat for so long in a no start condition it could've drained the battery down.... though it is a new battery as of this year. What ya'll think?

You mention that the shop MEASURED the oil pressure and found it to be low.
Now, from what I remember from looking at AlldataDIY information, the pressure monitor for the light is a switch, so they would have been using their equipment to measure it.

As far as a clogged catalytic converter causing low oil pressure?....I can see it causing back pressure and other problems, but not low oil pressure.
The engine running at a given minimum RPM would give you the same oil pressure regardless of back pressure from the exhaust.

I would not sweat the new radiator hoses, unless they were pretty new.....it is a good idea to replace them....and the heater hoses during an engine replacement.....you have disconnected them anyhow...and the extra flexing is pushing it on all but new hoses.
It would be a shame to put the money into an engine just to have it ruined by a $10 hose (like the short little heater hose at the back of the engine).
I know....it is yet another thing that pushes the bill up....and a shop charges more for them than if you shop around for them yourself....but still a good idea to replace them.

I DO understand your frustration.......particularly when things are not right.
However, even the best company puts out a product that is not up to standard.......the good companies STAND BEHIND their product when something goes wrong.
Which is why I recommended that you have your shop address the oil pressure and tapping issues right away.
Hopefully your problems will be soon corrected, and you will be on the road......for some time to come....with only routine things like fluid and filter changes.

Did the shop doing the engine install provide your engine, our did it come from a 3rd party rebuilder? It sounds like it did. I've done several engine installs and a few rebuilds at home and can testify that it's frustrating to get a motor in and work through the bugs. It's even worse when the motor has to come back out as I suspect your's may.

If there is truly low oil pressure I'd want to have the oil examined before it's discarded while the oil pump is replaced. If there's excessive debris, (metal) then there may be excessive wear due to the poor oil pressure. You deserve better for what you paid for the rebuilt motor and you surely won't get the service from it you would have had the oil pressure been correct. The shop that installed the motor should be able to confirm realtime from ODBII what "ALL" the measurements of what the motor is doing. This includes oil pressure at idle, while driving, etc. It also includes exhaust temps, coolant temps, O2 levels, etc. and not just codes.

All the other "stuff", while annoying, will work itself out after you've resolved the engine issue. One last suggestion, make sure the shop changes the oil. I can't remember if the pump is internal on a 3.8 or not. I think it is though so they should have to drain the system.