95 3.8L water pump replacement procedure?

[searcherrr]

Can someone please confirm that this nightmare procedure for the 3.8L engine at the bottom of this autozone repair guide page is accurate? and can ANYONE give me an approximate idea of how much this would cost at a non-Ford and a Ford shop?

http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us...rInfoPages.htm


I am just in awe. I cannot believe that someone would build something like this making it so absolutely difficult to get to...... especially while being such a SIMPLE device !!!!! I am stuck in McComb, MS needing to get this done tomorrow.

[tripletdaddy]

Dear Searcherrr,

Got something really soft like a pillow? You're gonna need it for your poor head that you're gonna pound when I share with you what I could research. Originally I was going to say that your repair isn't all that bad, in fact I'd currently trade your wp repair with mine on a frontward facing engine on my Dodge pickup, but then I started to dig deaper. When I looked at the AZ link you included, guess what, they didn't give the correct repair instructions for the 3.8l, but only for the 3.0l!?!(only used in 1% off that year!?!) I could not get it to give me the 3.8l instructions. So I assumed that they would be the same. Well, I happen to have the Haynes manual for that vehicle and I own the exact same vehicle as yours, so I could easily confirm everything on it.

I'm sorry, but I have very bad news. The repair is much, more complicated than for the 3.0l, requiring the removal of the alt, some brackets, the belt tensioner, but the killer is rasing the engine off its mounts high enough to get the wp to clear!?! However, there is prior thread regarding the removal of the front cover on this engine and they wanted to know if the engine really had to be raised for that procedure, but the replies said that it was not necessary. In any event, I have no knowledge of the expense for your repair, but you should be able to call around to even the dealer, since this is a straight forward repair that would be listed in their job book that they use to base their bill on.Sorry

[busboy4]

Hi
I changed out the water pump on my '96 3.8L. It was a fairly tough job but not as bad as I thought. Raising the engine was not too bad - two engine mount bolts and then I jacked it up with a floor jack and 2X4, and placed a 2X4 on the frame and let the engine back down onto that to rest.

I say this only to say that it might cost less than you think as the job went pretty fast - 4 hours including the trip to NAPA. So if an amateur with no lift and no prior experience with the job can do it in 4, the "book rate" on labor might be as much as half of that. If you were home ( I am assuming not) and had time and your garage and felt your previous experience was adequate I would encourage you to go ahead. On the road however, I would think a local independent shop would be a good call.

Best of luck, sorry for the trouble.

[searcherrr]

Thanks guys. Yeah i'm on the road. Prices I found were from $300 to $500. $500 being the dealership. I love saving money though of course the $300 shop is a small owned repair shop and though they sounded like they knew what they were doing I think I'd rather have to deal with Ford for recourse on such a big job where they are touching/removing so many components to get this damn thing out. I'm just worried they are gonna break my alternator or ps pump or a/c or something while doing all this.

What do ya'll think the chances are of my engine being a lost cause though? I probably went for about 2 - 3 miles and probably about 1 mile with it at the H or over the H level. In the last 1/10th of the mile it was knocking and I was towing a 3000lb load the whole time. I have since restarted it and ran it down the street 3 times and it sounds just fine and accelerates normally, but the place that wanted to do the water pump for $300 says that there's like an 85% chance my aluminum heads are warped if it got that hot.... and it was about a pinky fingernail over the H on the temp meter. Interestingly enough too the CEL never came on. I had to realize this all on my own when the A/C stopped working and then I heard a squeal from the water pump pulley and then saw the temp gauge was too high. It all happened fast and I got off the road as fast as I could and immediately turned on the heater full blast with the windows down. That seemed to help a little, but every accel especially going up slight grades in MS seemed to aggravate temperature immediately. Still it just seems to me that its running great. I have taken care of it as I should've. I've seafoamed the engine crankcase in the past 3 weeks and the air intake as well. The oil is only about 2 weeks old (fresh) and did not look burnt on the stick though I probably should've checked it this morning before I brought it to Ford.

[busboy4]

Hi
for what it is worth, I didn't break anything on my job. I did remove the alternator, but the PS pump stayed. Unfortunately, on a job this involved you probably are going to be told that something else is bad too. If the shop has it apart and tells you the head gasket blew, what recourse do you have? It is in pieces. You unfortunately have to go by your impressions. Did you google the independent on the Better Business Bureau? Might give you a little peace.
Good luck, I know you are in a tough spot. My pump failed in my garage - or more exactly the pump shaft seal. I had it easy by comparison.

[busboy4]

Hi
for what it is worth, I didn't break anything on my job. I did remove the alternator, but the PS pump stayed. Unfortunately, on a job this involved you probably are going to be told that something else is bad too. If the shop has it apart and tells you the head gasket blew, what recourse do you have? It is in pieces. You unfortunately have to go by your impressions. Did you google the independent on the Better Business Bureau? Might give you a little peace.
Good luck, I know you are in a tough spot. My pump failed in my garage - or more exactly the pump shaft seal. I had it easy by comparison.

[tomj76]

In my opinion, the over temperature issue may not have caused any perminant damage. The fact that it runs well now suggests that there isn't any issue with loss of compression. However, both warpage and head cracks could easily take some time to fully show symptoms. I doubt changing the water pump would give them the opportunity to determine if there are problems on the heads, unless evidence is shown in the coolant when it is drained.

I'd suggest getting the water pump replaced, and dealing with the heads at a later time. As has been mentioned elsewhere, there are services that will test your oil and coolant to determine if they are being contaminated by leaking gaskets in the engine.

[wiswind]

All the instructions that I have seen tell you to lift the engine a few inches so that the pulley will clear the unibody frame member that you can see is not far from the water pump pulley.

I would change the water pump, and then fill the cooling system and have a pressure test done to see if it holds pressure.
Then go from there.
It is possible that more damage was done by overheating....but maybe not.

Of course, I would change the engine oil, and keep checking the coolant level.
It may take a bit for the cooling system to "burp" out all the air, but continued coolant loss is a issue that MUST be dealt with.

The 2 coolant leaks for your '95 to watch for are head gasket and front cover gasket (aka timing chain cover.....which is what the water pump is mounted to).
The head gasket would most likely be the easier repair of the 2 as the timing cover gasket job is major.....even after you lift the engine to get to the water pump.
Lower intake manifold gaskets must be replaced as part of the head gasket job.....as the intake manifold must be removed....and the lower intake manifold gaskets are NOT re-usable.

One item of good news is, that the FORD replacement gaskets are improved....to address the issues that caused their failure in the first place.
So this should be a 1 time repair.

Hopefully, you will not need to address the head gasket or front cover gasket issue.
If the front cover has a very slight leak.....I would put some Barr's Stop Leak into the coolant.
I did that on my '96 when the front cover gasket had a very slight seepage....and it has held just fine for well over 100K miles and 5 years.