The Next Comp?

Perhaps to keep things simple, after all the entries are in for the 80's comp, all the entrants should vote for the next comp theme. That way the builders decide!:)

That would be a nice reward for all the contributing builders' efforts :iceslolan

i still think my idea is best the build a race car from scratch

That german or italian or american theme could be good.

i agree with acemotorsport then you could chose any car you like and make it a race car

i still think my idea is best the build a race car from scratch

1) Who is going to check if all the elements that are used are actually scratchbuilt?

2) How far can you go buying and applying basic kitparts and/or aftermarket items? 100% scratch means 100% scratch!!!

3) How many entries do you expect from a contest where kits are banned in a forum that exists for kit builders???

youre right the best would be i think something like german cars or 70s

1) Who is going to check if all the elements that are used are actually scratchbuilt?

2) How far can you go buying and applying basic kitparts and/or aftermarket items? 100% scratch means 100% scratch!!!

3) How many entries do you expect from a contest where kits are banned in a forum that exists for kit builders???
1 i answer it in # 2
2 no you buy a base car and just scratch build the body and other stuff
3 scratch builders and people that want a challinge will enter

no you buy a base car and just scratch build the body and other stuff

That's not scratchbuilding, that's merely enhancing an existing kit. Every experienced modeler more or less does that inhere. Besides, following that rule I could build a model car "straith from the box" and replace the antenna by some stretched sprue. "There, my scratchbuilt car is finished"...

These rules are simply too vague to result in a honest and fair contest. There is too many room for interpretattion in my humble opinion.

um i guess i agree

i still think my idea is best the build a race car from scratch

Have you ever scratchbuilt a model? It is a big project and can take many years to complete a single build. Very few people have the time and resources to commit to such an undertaking.

1 i answer it in # 2
2 no you buy a base car and just scratch build the body and other stuff
3 scratch builders and people that want a challinge will enter

That's not building from scratch, that is modifying. Happens here all the time.
Here is an idea for you - use correct spelling and grammar, if you want a challenge you will. :)

EDIT: Sennake beat me to it. Here's another challenge then - think before you post.

Have you ever scratchbuilt a model? It is a big project and can take many years to complete a single build. Very few people have the time and resources to commit to such an undertaking.



That's not building from scratch, that is modifying. Happens here all the time.
Here is an idea for you - use correct spelling and grammar, if you want a challenge you will. :)

EDIT: Sennake beat me to it. Here's another challenge then - think before you post.


Or, just ignore him. What a stupid idea.

Anyhow, I think the tobacco /alcohol idea is a top idea, and if this is the one we are going with, then I've got my shortlist of kits ready. Either a bike or an F1 car, as I've got kits ready to go with this idea. I think you'll get a whole slew of entrants with this idea, as the theme is so common in regards to motorsport.

Plenty of sponsors out there ready to advertise their smokes /beverages on fast moving vehicles..... It would make a fun contest, and I'll actually enter for once, instead of just looking and not giving any contributions.

Well, anyway, I've said my piece, I'll just wait and see what you guys decide.

ill be happy with that but we could have a japanese comp

Nice idea but could get tricky. For example [snip] a long and laughable comparison but that is the sort of problem it could present.


Good point. Not to be argumentative, though, but I think that the car modeling, and the motorsport community is so full of stand up guys that everyone would follow the intent of the rules instead of trying to sneak in this or that. And even if they did, ah well. They're only plastic (and resin and photoetch and turned aluminum and vinyl...)

Anyway, I'm just suggesting stuff I could participate in. Whatever happens, happens. I may just have to sit out another year. I'm sure ya'll don't miss me much :tongue:

Have you ever scratchbuilt a model? It is a big project and can take many years to complete a single build. Very few people have the time and resources to commit to such an undertaking.



That's not building from scratch, that is modifying. Happens here all the time.
Here is an idea for you - use correct spelling and grammar, if you want a challenge you will. :)

EDIT: Sennake beat me to it. Here's another challenge then - think before you post.
WOW looks like you dressed the SuperPhil suit :) a spelling warning also for me please :wink:

Well seriously: one thing appear clear: we don't need to let know other what we like to do in the contest right now: here we need fresh ideas, later we'll take a decision in few hours with a poll or similar. So please don't repeat hundred times "open wheels" "alcol" and shitty tobacco: we know already a lot of people like tose themes, me too.

Any other fresh tough? (apart ignore him(gio) becouse he's stupid?):evillol:

We'll miss you willimo! If we pick F1 will it convince you to shell out for that resin BAR Honda? :) Or what about an older McLaren Honda, it would fit in with Tobacco as well!

Giovanni - I have no idea what you're on about! SuperPhil suit? :lol:

Another bit tought: please don narrow the range, if the range is already narrow: open wheeler is enought also without '70

No Giovanni there will be just one theme, just like 80s this year and Le Mans last year, not multiple restrictions.
Maybe we should just have all the entries that weren't finished in time for the last two comps! :)

Or yet another idea : how about making a country the subject of the contest : for instance "German cars"...

seems too restrictive, as working around one nationality would rule out most forms of motorsports. for example, if you chose Germany, drag racing, stock cars, motorcycle GP and all but BMW F1 are ruled out...

if you're going to chose that catagory, you're pretty much limited to Britain if you want builders in every genre to enter -- and even there you've left the drag racing and stock car builders out of the competition.

i still think the category should be as inclusive (in terms of types of motorsports) as possible...

well touring cars is a start or some thing from the 90's

I liked the open wheel idea.

so do i but open wheel car are are a diffrent thing

WOW!!!!!!!!!

Is this still going on????? Make a decision already or start a poll. Get on with it!!! This could go on for ever!!!

Icon Modeler

Maybe we should just have all the entries that weren't finished in time for the last two comps! :)


I m in :)

And also for the tobacco cars, it's a good idea, and so many interesting subjects there!

Oli

We'll miss you willimo! If we pick F1 will it convince you to shell out for that resin BAR Honda? :) Or what about an older McLaren Honda, it would fit in with Tobacco as well!

Giovanni - I have no idea what you're on about! SuperPhil suit? :lol:

Hey - No fair.. I've already purchased my BAR Honda.. :p And it has all the requirements needed to enter.... :iceslolan

Willimo - The BAR Honda kit looks be really nice. And you know how I like to moan and groan, so if you get one, just think what you'd do with it..!! Anyhow, if it's F1, then this will (hmm I say) perhaps be something I consider entering with..

Maybe we should just have all the entries that weren't finished in time for the last two comps! :)

:ylsuper: Way to go, Superphil! :evillol:

Let's see who can go longest without building something....I win!

If we pick F1 will it convince you to shell out for that resin BAR Honda? :)

Not this summer, eep! If only Honda would win a damn race, we could have a plastic kit of their car. :disappoin You just know if they won a GP this year, Tami would have a Japanese kit of the Japanese car owned by a Japanese team in production in less than an hour.

well what f1 cars can you get without paying a shitload on just the body

You tell me? (http://www.modelexpress.net/cgi-bin/modelexpress/shop/scan/fi=products/st=db/co=1/sf=category/se=Formula%201/op=rm/nu=0/sf=inStock/se=1/op=rm/nu=0/ml=20/tf=sku/to=x/va=banner_text=/va=banner_image=.html?id=4TWWM4zW)

im talking the new cars [03 up]

WOW!!!!!!!!!

Is this still going on????? Make a decision already or start a poll. Get on with it!!! This could go on for ever!!!

Icon Modeler

No need to pick a theme until the current comp is over. I think we should go with the idea of asking the entrants in this year's eighties comp to decide. Last year's public poll didn't really work. Given the posts by some newbies in this thread its easy to see why.

what ever it is i'll be involved I'm sure i can find something to build

what ever it is [exept for bikes or f1] ill do it

No need to pick a theme until the current comp is over. I think we should go with the idea of asking the entrants in this year's eighties comp to decide. Last year's public poll didn't really work. Given the posts by some newbies in this thread its easy to see why.

Always the suit on :) I like this way!

Do you mean who give an entry or who have the model finished? Anyway I agree, power to the last contest enties. Not the most democratic way but I trust enought on those senior members.

But I repeat myself: peoples still repeating "I'm in I'm in, despithe the theme.." well you're in, that'ok, but right here we need IDEAS not entries then we'll find a way to let peole make a choice.

MY IDEA IS STILL COLOR RACERS, choose a color: may be yellow.

No need to pick a theme until the current comp is over. I think we should go with the idea of asking the entrants in this year's eighties comp to decide. Last year's public poll didn't really work. Given the posts by some newbies in this thread its easy to see why.

Yeah, like Gio sed- will this be people who started builds, or only people who've finished them? And how was it that last years poll didn't work? I think 80's was a totally reasonable category. Has it been problematic?

I agree new ideas are still useful, and there really isn't need to decide it until the 80's contest is wrapped up. But i have to disagree with our resident graphics designer on themes. I like themes in which the cars themselves all have something on common, not just the color they happen to be painted or whoever happens to be sponsoring them. Imagine having a contest like this in that other (Street/Show) forum- "all right, this year you can enter anything, as long as you paint it black" (Henry Ford would be proud). So what do these cars have in common?

I think 70's (or 80's) is great, because all builds entered represent the level of racing technology of that era. How about anything that ran with an inline 4 cylinder engine?- or better yet, anything with a turbocharger!

My favorite is still motorsports cars based on production cars. It would allow anything from a rally Mini Cooper to a GT F40 Compatizione, including all WRC and touring cars, many Le Mans cars, etc., and a host of bikes. It would be cool to see a collection of motorsports builds that all had familiar, roadgoing versions.

Just dont exclude us drag car and stock car builders!

I know of Jack Daniels as a example of sponsoring Nascars and Drag/Funny cars.

My favorite is still motorsports cars based on production cars. It would allow anything from a rally Mini Cooper to a GT F40 Compatizione, including all WRC and touring cars, many Le Mans cars, etc., and a host of bikes. It would be cool to see a collection of motorsports builds that all had familiar, roadgoing versions.

Mhhhhh I could cast my fote for your idea: I know a white/red/black car that don't rush very hard but is definitely wonderful, don't she? ;) and at least its design is copyright so everyone'll do it is quetly a outlaw :) and more it's not phantom!

Ok, just updating something MPWR did a while ago, from what I can work out we have the following suggestions:-

1/ Cigarette / Alcohol - this gives a good range of subjects and would include the cars as they appeared at the races they were not allowed to display the words. Maybe as main sponsor?

2/ Country - could be very restrictive

3/ Colour - has merit but red would produce how many Ferraris? Also multicoloured cars are out there and as MPWR states, what percentage?

4/ Fantasy - not a lot of acceptance as most like to reproduce actual cars as Sennake states.

5/ Open Wheel - has merit and still gives a large year range. Just don't do F1 only.

6/ 60's - has merit and would introduce people to cars that raced before they remember however a lot of subjects will require considerable modification.

7/ 70's - same as 60's

8/ 90s - a wide range of subjects available OOB

9/ 00s - will probably not get us to build more as we are all building these as they come out

10/ Death theme - I'm glad that was a joke, but twice guys?

11/ Le Mans - I would prefer endurance theme to open up subjects. Say include Spa.

12/ Weathering/Damage - you can do this anyway

13/ Race Winners - not a bad idea

14/ Test/Prototypes - could be limiting

15/ Muscle cars - very limiting as race vehicles

16/ Movie Cars - wrong subsection

17/ Cars that never finished - is this a race or any race?

18/ One sponsor - a bit repetitive

19/ Sex / Rock - I can only think of Viagra and Scream as sponsors, just make sure it is in that order. Or naked girl Mercs. Only rock sponsors I've seen is on Nascars.

20/ Production based - where do you draw the line on what percentage is considered production based?

21/ Milestone Vehicles - very subjective in what is a milestone.

22/ Scratchbuild - most modify, not scratchbuild. Also you can still scratchbuild a car within any of the other themes.

23/ Oil theme - again do you make it 'main sponsor' not minor?

24/ Engine type - has potential

Comments are mine solely, personally I would do whatever is decided. Here is a couple more I have thought of

25/ Non automotive based main sponsor.

26/ 1/43rd scale

Mal

great job Malscar, thanks

Perhaps if you want to let the participants in the 80's comp decide, you can let everyone whittle it down to just a handful first? I unfortunately didn't have a lot of time to build this year, and didn't have any 80's kits already, so it was hard for me to justify getting one for this comp. I'd like to have some sort of a say.... if not, I'll feel disenfranchised a bit :( (Just kidding).

Also - for the production car category, we could do it like they do in the real world. Something like the greenhouse has to remain factory stock.

I thing the engine type could be good letts say we had:4cyl that could make le touring cars imsa cars you name it

Also - for the production car category, we could do it like they do in the real world. Something like the greenhouse has to remain factory stock.

Which series does this?

I'm not sure I see any real difficulty in diffrentiating this category. To use RallyRaider's example: the 307 would obviously be allowed- all WRC cars are based on production cars, as a rule of the series. The BT50 would not be allowed, as no F1 car has begun life as a street legal car- at least not in the last 30 odd years. It seems pretty clear. Nearly everything could be decided based on the rules of the series the car raced in. Sure, I suppose we could find grey areas to argue about if we really wanted (example: Porsche GT1- it was first a race car, then sold as a street car)- but it seems few if any would be so obnoxious that we couldn't solve them with a simple decision (example: sure, there was a road going Porsche GT1, so we'll allow it, but not other GT1s unless they also had road versions sold). Really I expect that nearly everyone would be able to tell pretty easily if the car they want to do would qualify, and would keep to the spirit of the rules. It's not like we're likely to turn alot of people away.

If the category doesn't excite people, that's fine- but is it really so difficult to determine what would and wouldn't belong?

What do you think about that?

- Front engine only
- FWD / RWD / AWD
- any decade from pre WW to current cars (i.e. 30's Silberpfeile to
Super1600/WRC)
- any series
- any sponsor

-> a wide range of entries
-> excludes only a few series/cars


Just my :2cents: worth, if you don't like it - ignore it. i don't want to trigger further discussion of topics :grinno:

I think this could bring lots of (already forgotten) interesting entries...

Cheers

Time for my 2cents again that everyone can ignore.

Of all the ideas so far I would vote for tobacco and Andy's production based race car idea.

However, neither of them give me the same sense of buzz that I detected in the Lemans contest. Why? Because both of these themes for me aren't "themes". They will just produce a bunch of essentially unconnected cars that we see all the time in the motorsport section anyway. (I hope I was able to express clearly here, alhough I doubt it)

Subjectively I would love a theme that in some way really "connected" all the builds participating. This gives the whole event maybe a bit less of a "competition" and more of a "huge joint build" atmosphere. Bad examples of what I mean would be e.g. the 1999 WRC series, 1973 F1 championship, Ferrari F1 cars, all Racing Fords....etc - please don't take the examples too literally (I made the dates up) except the Racing Ferraris or Racing Fords ones which I think are good ideas/concepts/themes in their own right.

I think klutz has a point, either something like that or a decade. Problem is like pointed out before, that people build the cars they like, not necessarily the cars in the contest.

No need to pick a theme until the current comp is over. I think we should go with the idea of asking the entrants in this year's eighties comp to decide. Last year's public poll didn't really work. Given the posts by some newbies in this thread its easy to see why.

I agree!

Problem is like pointed out before, that people build the cars they like, not necessarily the cars in the contest.
I respectfully disagree. "Lemans" was a pretty tight subject and people still built their cars under that mandatory - of course chosing a personal favourite particular car within that sciope. The subject IMHO needs to motivate/stimulate us to do something (preferably different) and not be a catch-all so that everyone fits in "by happy coincidence".
Also, i think that it'll be pretty darned difficult to get a consenus :D
Either Phil, as "Honorary MS Master of Ceremonies" gets the right to arbritatrily set the subject or a forum wide poll?

Shouldn't a contest be a chalenge? Or is this only my view?
As most of you built models on regular basis, who not do convertions.
Everyone can enter, because they can built the car they like, and also how they want it. Well detailing up isn't imo not a conversion.
Scratchbuilding would be to tough for most of us, because this means you build a whole car from no used kit. Some use the term wrongly, but imo you could speak of scratchbuilding parts of the car. (I say this because of the discussion somewhere on this forum)

So imo 2 conversion types of contests. Because the discussion on which cars do and do not fit the chalenge could be sholved on forehand. :rolleyes:

I'd like to nominate 60's racers please - purely for selfish reasons! :)

Lets just have the contest theme be "Who can pick the best theme for 08"" !!!!
Because there is alot more chatter here then there are entries in the "80's" contest. Again, i was never into the 80's theme, hence, no entry. Of course i had a few modelling set backs this past year as most of you know. Anyhow, maybe we can open discussion to people that have completed entries for any of the Motorsport contest? I did make it last year but due to "weather" i had no time this year.:frown:

I'd like to nominate 60's racers please - purely for selfish reasons! :)

i'll second that! :grinyes:

i like the production car idea also the proto/test idea is good but what do the grand american racers fit into i like that series

also you guys left out targa events like targa tasmania

letts build any car we want:thumbsup:

And how was it that last years poll didn't work? I think 80's was a totally reasonable category. Has it been problematic?

Not so much a problem, rather we had a large number of votes for the 80's (27 or so I seem to recall) and that has not translated into anywhere near that many completed entries. Seems giving the people what they want doesn't always work! :)

19/ Sex / Rock - I can only think of Viagra and Scream as sponsors, just make sure it is in that order. Or naked girl Mercs. Only rock sponsors I've seen is on Nascars.


Nicely compiled list there Mal. When I wrote sex and rock n roll I ment as an ajunct to alcohol/tobacco. So we could title the comp "Sex n' Drugs n' Rock n' Roll". :)

How does this sound for a plan? When the eighties comp is running next week, and everybody is voting for their favourites, I'll also ask all the previous entrants of the last two contests to PM me with a vote for their favoured theme for 2007. Entrants from both the 80s and Le Mans comp will be eligible.

Looking over Mal's list only two really stand out to me. Both in terms of widespread appeal and in producing a cohesive and interesting collection of models:

1. Drinking and Smoking - i.e. major sponsor (as in biggest graphic on the car) belongs to an alcohol or tobacco company. Must be the real thing, not a non-tobacco event.

2. Formula One - will also include other open wheel series.

Nicely compiled list there Mal. When I wrote sex and rock n roll I ment as an ajunct to alcohol/tobacco. So we could title the comp "Sex n' Drugs n' Rock n' Roll". :)

Sex n' Drugs n' Rock n' Roll is awesome to me: a phantom Playoy/B&E/TheCult is already out of its box ;)

BTW: power to entrants or who finish the model for vote?

Thanks

BTW: power to entrants or who finish the model for vote?

Only those who have entered a finished model.

How does this sound for a plan? ..... Entrants from both the 80s and Le Mans comp will be eligible.
Honestly? If you really want to know, I think it's a bad idea.
While I understand the seeming "fairness" of the plan (towards those who DID enter) on the principle "if you haven't built so far, you don't get a say", I actually think this approach is elitist and exclusive.

As I said, either let Phil make the call on own - we all like and respect him very much and are sure to accept his decision. Otherwise, make a poll and live with the deficiencies inherent in pluralism - weak majority decisions.

Since when has it been necessary to have participated in smthg before to get a say in a public discusssion? Why did we ask the question out lound in the first place then? Let's face it, the rambling, non-decisive nature of the discussion so far sholdn't come as a surpise to anyone and isn't even wrong! It's a discussion FGS!

Some people (me for example) who didn't enter the 80s comp didn't do so out of a lack of enthuisiasm, willingness or a couldn't-care-less atitude - quite simply they didn't have the available time, or had hurricanes or.....

I might fool around on this forum quite alot but I respect the members and their skills very much. So don't take this a wild rant - it's not. I just think that half measures are usually a bad solution and your plan Phil, sounds to me like a half-measure.

Whatever is decided will however have my support (whatever that means ;) )

I´ve seen enough, already! :disappoin

Make a poll, when the 80´s contest is finished.

Let everybody vote. Since it´s an open forum, let´s don´t restrict decisions like that to the ones who actually entered one of the two contest we had.

But on the other hand, Phil, you call the shots (since you´re the one having all the work with the contests, etc.). So whatever you decide is best for the contest. Let´s just get over with this thread, it is already 10 pages too long!

Robert