Camaro Vs. 04 Cobra

I was reading about the Mustang Cobra's and couldn't help but noticed that it had 390 hp, 390 torque and could do a 1/4 mile in the 12 range.
So my question is, is there any stock Camaro that could even compete. Maybe the SS but I want diff opinions

That Calaway Camaro would take it on, lol.

i guess an ss can lay it down if driven right. but u can never go wrong with a zl1, i saw 2 this weekend in atlanta a the f-body gathering they were sweet!

Correct me if im wrong but I don't even think the Calaway did 12 range.
2 Zl1 in one day. Now that's something to remember, did you take pics, if you did postum

yes i did ill be getting the disk 2morrow so ill post them. it was the first time i seen one that wasnt on my screen saver lol. they were nice as hell, and more power to the 2 guys that had it to pay over 100grand to say they have one. the sad thig was those werent even the nicest/fastest camaros there and they have big blocks in them.

oh i forgot to tell u that we went to gmmg i think thats what it was called, but thats were they make all the super camaros or special editions.they let us tour the place, man i wish i had big bucks, damn a ferrari or a porsh, i would have them make me a bad ass camaro that nobody else had....year one also had a few nice ones that im sure could stomp a cobra or 2. one car had cobra hunter on the front tint strip

an SS camaro wouldn't even come close to 12's they dont have much more power than a Z28

So my question is, is there any stock Camaro that could even compete. Maybe the SS but I want diff opinions
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No....

I have a buddy with an '04 Cobra, stock he ran a 12.14... He has added Basanni Exhaust, smaller supercharger pulley which almost doubled his boost, and a few other mods..... and is now hitting 11.60s...

~John

03-04 Cobras wont be touched by a camaro in the 1/4 stock for stock...ZL1's are awesome (commenting since they were mentioned). There is a guy in my hometown that bought two ZL1's when they were released. I have a pic i'll have to find of when he dyno'd his and it did pretty well there as well :)

I notice in the camaro forum there is alot of anti-stang comments that are repetative and idiotic for the most part. Not saying this thread is by anymeans just commenting because i've seen alot of it. I personally dont care if the stang "had to use a blower to be fast." It's damn fast and gets MUCH faster with little money in mods...Cant beat that IMO. I will someday own a mustang or two...it wont replace my camaro...But i will own one.

William

Eh I say just throw a Corvette at it, whatever a Camaro cant eat up, the Vette takes it on.

Edit- I think we're losing Will.

an SS camaro wouldn't even come close to 12's they dont have much more power than a Z28
It has NO more power than the Z-28's. Hell, the Z-28 probably stands a better chance stock than the SS thanks to weight.
03/04 Cobras are something that stock LS1 cars get beat by. A lot.
Even more so when mods play a factor for both cars.

Let's put it this way....I would love to run a stock Cobra, and I would probably pull on one, but not by much. I have $3000 into my Trans Am.

Exactly Mr Luos, that's what i was saying. No one is losing me I'll love my camaro till i die...I'm not so much a "camaro" fan as i am a fan of first gen camaros...There are probably a few Cobras out there that can hold their own against Vettes as well (stock for stock).

William

Exactly Mr Luos, that's what i was saying. No one is losing me I'll love my camaro till i die...I'm not so much a "camaro" fan as i am a fan of first gen camaros...There are probably a few Cobras out there that can hold their own against Vettes as well (stock for stock).

William
Stock for Stock.....
LS6 Z06 Corvettes are a touch faster. Not by much. Although add corners, and the Cobra is in the rear view.
LS2 Corvettes should also be a VERY close race with a 03/04 Cobra. Both in stock form.

Yea, Cobras are decent in corners but tend to PUSH alot like most stangs...In a straight line, cobra does pretty well for itself and can hold it's own...Solid axle in cobra = badass times...

William

Wait we talking about new like 05 new or 5th gen vettes?

I was talking about Vettes and cobras of the same year...I cant wait to see what the GT500 stang does...I have a couple friends that are on the list in my hometown area to own the first two in town...This could get interesting quick (one has a turbo 90 stang in the low 9s soon to be 8s and the other has a convertible 99 cobra in the 10s).

William

I'd actually like to have one of those GT500s

I like to have a 97 SS and a 04 Cobra, but that's not going to happen.
If the Camaro's did compete with the 04 Cobra, GM would be competing with themselves with the Vette. Great two 12's cars, but ones 10,000 dollars cheaper. That's one thing the iroc was doing in my opinion What do the Zo6 do in the 1/4 mile?
Why would they make an SS if the Z28's are faster?
I don't think your right with that one...SS have to be faster.

SS was mainly an appearance package...Not faster. Z06's have been known to get into the high 11s stock...

That is part of the reason the camaro had such a problem selling, the Vette wasn't much more and the f-body was expensive.

William

I believe it's performance as well...

Just read up on it, SS has an extra 30 hp from CAI...your right, not really a diff. sorry

the hp increase was mainly GM trying to sell the car....There is very little changed and not much performance difference seen...

William

i think the 03/04 cobra was going after the corvette z06 anyway, im not sure the price but im pretty sure its on up there in the corvette price range. but what is the cobra without the supercharger, nothing but another mustang. what about a z28 LS1 with a supercharger vs. supercharged cobra. no competition.

But the LS1's have more displacement over the Mustangs (I think their 4.6L?) I have a feeling this will all play out with the new Z06's and the GT500's. They are going into a horsepower war with these two. Chevy still has to play it's trump card by bolting on a blower to the LS7 (which will be baaaaaad!) but Ford is already close to 500hp with much smaller displacement. I won't be ready to declare a winner till there both blown and over 400 c.i.

As far as the Z28 vs. SS thing, basically, the extra money went for a cool hood and spoiler. The SS could have been ordered with a few extra options (a different rear end, short throw, exhaust) but none of these make a big difference in performance numbers. I didn't buy mine because I thought it would beat everything else (just a love-at-first-sight thing). I think the #1 thing the SS has going for it is people just assume that they are way quicker.

Why would they make an SS if the Z28's are faster?
I don't think your right with that one...SS have to be faster.
Trust me. I know these things.

SS = Z-28 when it comes to overall speed and straight line performance. Same motor, same transmissions.

they rate the SS at more so they can make all the cars seem to be on a hyerarchy, v6-z28-SS-corvette-z06

its so they can sell them for more $$

its all marketing techniques, with the LS1 cars, nobody really knows what they make, cept Mr Luos, they rate them at 305 hp but they lay down close to that if not more bone stock. and they say that some LS1's are faster than others, which makes no sense to me might not be true i dont know, but basically GM knew that the LS1 camaro was faster than they wanted to sell it as being, so they underrated it so it wouldn't take away from the sale of corvettes which were only like 330 something or 350 hp i believe, around 1998, correct me if im wrong

but yeah its basically paying for a cool hood and a spoiler and wheels and a badge. the performance is the same, sometimes there are more restrictive parts on the z28 just to hold her down a little to make an SS look stronger (i.e. airbox, muffler, other stuff from SLP)

Explains why the irocs were rated 10 less hp than the vettes back when both had the L98. Still using the same old techniques i guess.

Trust me. I know these things.

SS = Z-28 when it comes to overall speed and straight line performance. Same motor, same transmissions.
Thanks for the insight, but that was already cleared up

..Cant beat that IMO. I will someday own a mustang or two...it wont replace my camaro...But i will own one.
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I feel much like you William.... I think anti-Mustang and anti-Camaro talk is ignorance. There is things I like about the Camaro and things I like about the Mustang. Honestly, I probably like them about the same. I've owned 5.0 Mustangs in the past, I currently own two IROCs now....... and I'm looking for a '86-'88 Mustang GT or LX coupe 5.0 to add to my collection.

I favor mid to late 80s Mustang GTs and IROC Camaros, I guess because that is what was out when I was in high school and first getting into cars.... I'll never forget when I was 16 years old and a buddy of mine got a brand new 1987 Mustang GT (rich parents....bastard...LOL!!!!) man, I'll never forget the power that thing had as it pinned me to the seat as he was jamming the gears. Couldn't buy one then, but now I can. Actually I'm going to be selling my '87 5.7 TPI IROC and replacing it with a '86-'88 white with T-tops GT (if I can find one), I'm keeping my '90 G92 IROC 5-speed.... I'll never get rid of that baby.

~John

Gotta love that G92, it was walking that LT1, pretty damn amazing for a 305. John, that white iroc is badass, one of kind.

Let's put it this way....I would love to run a stock Cobra, and I would probably pull on one, but not by much. I have $3000 into my Trans Am.
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What exactly have you done for $3,000?

Why would they make an SS if the Z28's are faster?
I don't think your right with that one...SS have to be faster.
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The SS is faster than a Z-28... Thats why GM ships Z-28s to SLP... to turn them into SS Camaro, which are faster than a basic Z-28.

Explains why the irocs were rated 10 less hp than the vettes back when both had the L98. Still using the same old techniques i guess.
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The Vettes had L98 aluminum heads and the IROCs had L98 cast iron heads.

Explains why the irocs were rated 10 less hp than the vettes back when both had the L98. Still using the same old techniques i guess.
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The Vettes had L98 aluminum heads and the IROCs had L98 cast iron heads.

Damn, i thought the L98 in both fire's and camaro's were aluminum heads? Learn something new everyday.

Let's put it this way....I would love to run a stock Cobra, and I would probably pull on one, but not by much. I have $3000 into my Trans Am.
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What exactly have you done for $3,000?
Full exhuast, headers back.
Cam and valvetrain upgrades.
Intake, lid, 85mm MAF, ported TB.
Made 376.8 RWHP and 370.8 ft/pounds before porting the TB. Should be right at 380 RWHP now.

Why would they make an SS if the Z28's are faster?
I don't think your right with that one...SS have to be faster.
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The SS is faster than a Z-28... Thats why GM ships Z-28s to SLP... to turn them into SS Camaro, which are faster than a basic Z-28.
Not really. Most LS1 cars, including C5 Corvettes average around 305-310 at the wheels stock.
This arguement is like saying my WS.6 is faster than a regular Trans Am. It isn't. It comes down to driver.

Isn't anyone going to bring the '05 LS2 GTO into this thread...?

i think the cobra is still a little too fast for the ls2 gto

Full exhuast, headers back.
Cam and valvetrain upgrades.
Intake, lid, 85mm MAF, ported TB.
Made 376.8 RWHP and 370.8 ft/pounds before porting the TB. Should be right at 380 RWHP now.
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Very Nice........

i think the cobra is still a little too fast for the ls2 gto
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I agree...... just thought It would be cool to talk about the LS2 GTO. One day I will own one of those sumbitches...LOL!!!!!

All the LS1 Z-28s that I've seen dyno'd is doing about 285hp at the wheels.....(give or take) and the SS and WS6s are doing around the 300hp mark.

~John

i think someone said an ss cant hit 12's stock, ill have to be on the other side of that line, we have a few ss camaro's that run high 11's and one low 12's with just cutouts and a lid i beleave thats all they have done. no bottle no cam nothing much. one only has pipes and suspension work. i also seen cobra's s/c ed at the track run low 12's and 13's. and whoever said the z and the ss were about the same is correct. even the slp ss cars dont run any better then the rest of the ls1 cars. u pay for looks and gm saying an extra 10 or 15 hp..lets be real. anyone who knows about building anything cars boats planes, will know as long as man has to sit on that line and put parts together in the factory no 2 cars will run the same or be built 100% the same. 3 of us can have 02 ss cars built on the same day brand new never been owned, throw them on a dyno and all 3 cars will put down different numbers. it is what it is, a ss is a flashy z28 thats it. if u dont beleave me we have 3 in the shop right now and a few z's, ill invite u to tampa to see whats in all cars, not a big difference!

I know that a mostly stock LS1 wont run in the 11s...The Z06 with the LS6 was barely getting into the 11s... Those cars have mods believe me. The fastest i've seen at my high density altitude track is a 13.4 outa a 02 WS6 with a bad ass driver. LS1's are notorious for having "factory freaks." That's the case with the new cobra as well too. I've driven quite a few and I could easily tell which was fastest.

Also the talk about "well if GM put a supercharger...blah blah blah." Guess what, GM didn't. They could have gone the same way as ford and done small displacement and make up for it with a blower but they didn't. GM i feel did the smart thing and increased disp and achieved better mileage that ANY mustang ever has and has performance to boot. The 03-04 cobar was going after the Z06 and i think they did pretty well as far as straight line performance goes. The LS2 GTO is pretty sweet and i'm looking forward to taking one on a testdrive here shortly. I'll have to post my feelings about it.

William

yeah i agree i never bitch about the supercharger the cobra has, it doesnt matter to me if people get all bent outta shape about it maybe they should fix the problem and s/c their camaro. people need to remember, they needed that blower to catch up and to keep up, they still havent made a car whithout bolt ons to run down a ls1and they had 3 bonus years to do so. ill also agree that some ls1 cars have came from the factory nice as hell maybe they have 2 of them. the one i know for a fact only has the electric exhaust cut outs, a lid, and some gears im almost 100% sure thats it. the other like i said looked to be stock, didnt sound that different but maybe he had something.

LS1 F-Body = LS2 GTO in my opinion. The GTO is a nicer car to drive, and will run a low 13 at a good track stock, just like the lighter F-Body.

I know for a fact that I can beat stock LS6 Z06's, at least from a roll. I hung with one before my cam install, and he had exhaust. From what I understand, the LS2 C6 Corvette is about the same as the LS6 Z06 Corvette in straight line performance and overall wheel power.

LS1.....about 300-310 RWHP stock (M6 cars, autos dyno less)
LS6.....about 340-350 RWHP stock (also M6 cars)
LS2.....about 335-345 RWHP stock (M6)

Either way, that is great power from a smallblock. Even more so for a stock car. My car with lid and catback made 320/333. Not bad for $350 in mods.


And by the way....Philly RS, gears will liven up an F-Body BIGTIME. Auto I assume??

I've also heard that some 02 SS's and WS6's slipped out with LS6 heads and cam...Not sure on the validity of that but the fast WS6 i was talking about earlier in this thread dyno'd a 100% stock (not even a lid!!!) 346hp corrected (M6 car). I think the LSX series engines are amazing with the power they put out for the cubic inches and retain amazing gas mileage with the 6 speed.

William

Last time I checked my mileage....I got 27.4 MPG on the highway. Not bad at all for an untuned cam'd car. Best I ever got was 31 MPG.

Some of the 2002 F-Body's slipped out with the LS6 block. Not sure about any differences in cam and valvetrain. Could be. That might explain some of these crazy high dyno's. Of course, dyno's are really only good for tuning. Run it...that is the true determining factor.
Too bad I can't drive, and I am stuck on this mountain. :icon16:

The Yenko Camaro ran in the deep 11s and I'm pretty sure it'd kill a Cobra. The question is would it fall under stock or a production Camaro. I think it can because Saleen Mustangs are seen that way so the Yenko can be seen the same.

I'd also like to say a thing or two. I don't want to start a war here or anything just point some things out.
The LS-1 people say Ford had to put a S/C on the Cobra just to keep up, what about the Mach 1? Mach 1s are known for keeping up with LS-1s and they're N/A.
Also, if Ford were to put their 6.0L V-10 that's N/A and makes 600 hp I'm sure GM fans would be bitching because it has two extra cylinders over the LS-2. They weren't saying anything when the LS-1s had a 1.1L advantage over the Cobras though.
Also, the 5.4 in the '00 Cobra R was N/A and made 385 hp, almost as much as a LS-6. I think Ford doesn't have to put a S/C on but they do because who doesn't like factory S/C?

well ill tell you this, if ford puts out a engine that comes close to a mach one or that 6.0 in that lovable mustang ill tell u this, they wont be as cheap as they are. the only reason they killed gm when it came to sells is because they build their cars cheap...that means cheaper parts, and you give up a bit of power doing so. people said the camaro was expensive, but look at how much better of a car they were. its like they say u get what u pay for, if ford builds a car to match ls1 power or greater, then they will pay 30 g's or more for that car and ford wont do that.

I think if Pontiac wanted to have a fast performance car they should have stuck to the T/A. Instead they made the GTO.....
personally, between the Gto and the new Mustang, id take the Mustang for sure.

well ill tell you this, if ford puts out a engine that comes close to a mach one or that 6.0 in that lovable mustang ill tell u this, they wont be as cheap as they are. the only reason they killed gm when it came to sells is because they build their cars cheap...that means cheaper parts, and you give up a bit of power doing so. people said the camaro was expensive, but look at how much better of a car they were. its like they say u get what u pay for, if ford builds a car to match ls1 power or greater, then they will pay 30 g's or more for that car and ford wont do that.

I see what you are saying, but the bulk of mustang sales always were and continue to be the lowly V6. I think for will continue to build different performance packages to satisfy the enthusiast, but its always going to be the V6 that carries mustang sales. I think that there will be better and better performing mustangs now that they are working with a better base. Performance and sales don't necessarily go hand in hand. I am sure that if Camaro comes back out with a competitively priced V6 and V8 model, maybe differentiate more between the SS and Z28 to make prices vary more with performance, they will come back and give the mustang some competition on the sales floor.

Too bad GM plain out sucks under Lutz. Even if we got a new 2007 Camaro, it would probably be uglier than sin.
GM needs shaken up with the head guys. Something needs to change.

I agree with you Mr. Luos

i plan on beating some s/ced cobra's when my baby is running... or at least hope too...

about the whole thing w/ ford doing alot w/ less displacement... it really is all with the design if u ask me... ford has been using DOHC 4 valve per cylinder engines... while gm has been using 2 valve pushrod engines... gm has been doing that to stay faithful to their roots i suppose. but if u think about it, when gm did use the DOHC 4valve design they produced 400hp in the lt5 zr1 corvettes, and that was in 1990... i hope i make sense, i'm tired. my only point i'm making is that each automaker chooses its own path. gm has been going big displacement, pushrod (doing quite well at it i might add). ford shrank displacement and using newer designs to get their power...

there really is no reason to put gm vs ford, or camaro vs mustang... when it comes down to it, every car is different and it that particular car that races. a particular '02 ss camaro may very well beat a particular s/c cobra... that doesn't mean that all will.

races are between individual cars, not entire production lines... i guess that's waht i'm tryin to say. still very tired...

btw, camaro owns mustang :rofl:

I agree with the above statement and I would take a GTO over a new freaking Mustang because those things are ugly and everywhere just like the past ones.

I like the new GTO alot! I'd take it over the current GT but let Ford have a year or two with the new platform and make the GT500 and hopefully a more "friendly" priced GT or Mach or something and I'd love to have one.

William

I'd still take the GTO something about them in my mind screams out power.

That's not entirely in your mind....I think it's the badge that says 6.0 on the back and the 400hp advertised spec :)

William

No, just when I look at a 1st gen Camaro, I know it doesnt have a crapload of hp, but it looks mean and powerful, just like the GTO.

Its always been Camaro vs Mustang, and always will be
Whether you agree or not

Well actually its Camaro Vs. Mustang Vs. Challenger.