10 Rice Commandments

could you also give engine/car specifics such as compression ratio, cam lift and duration, rear gears, and top speed?

also, are there any performance packages available or something to get the mustang closer to the S2000's $32k price? and $8k difference is pretty significant

Dude your sources are fucked up too. A mustang GT doesn't redline at 5600... it redlines at 6000. The only reason the S2000 would win is because of its weight... but it's a freaking 2 seater. I can get a 500cc engine to smoke anything on the road just as easily in a crotch rocket. Compare it to a similarly priced Cobra. Look at the compression ratios buddy... on an S2000 you can't run anything but premium pump gas. If you try to blow it, you wont get anywhere. Furthermore, the only reason that rice engine is making that power is because it revs up really high. I would like to see you compete with the 64 Thunderbird I'm selling. I'll take you any day in that tin can.

Ah yes and your S2000 gets 153ft-lbs of torque. How are you going to go much faster than stock? By increasing how high it revs or getting more torque. You sure as hell won't get much more torque out of that shit and you're going to need to do some extensive engine work to raise your rpm.

I wouldn't be stupid enough to race a stock car -- that defeats the whole point. I think ANY stock car is slow if it doesn't get at least 12's. I'd like to see the S2000 run 12's normally aspirated, which you can do on a 5.0 under for 3 grand. It's not what the car gets stock... it's what you can get it to do with modifications.

Look you newbies... what's the fastest i4 and fastest V8? My point proven...

Fasterthanu... don't ask them about compression ratios, cam lift, etc... I have yet to see someone that stupid know how a car actually works. All most ricers do is talk shit.

Dude the S2000 has a 4.10 final gear ratio... that's pathetic that it's that slow with that gear ratio.

Originally posted by AlexB
Dude the S2000 has a 4.10 final gear ratio... that's pathetic that it's that slow with that gear ratio.

cuz it only has 153 lb/ft of torque. the faster it goes the more power it needs to force itself through the increasingly denser air.

In general I agree with most of the 10 above and even the few that follow. Big V-8 and smaller hi-tech are very different. I have a '69 Firebird 400 4-speed convertable this is somewhat quick. It's really now 406ci, polished, ported and balenced, intakes, headers, dual quatrajets, electric ignition, a few suspension mods, etc. Bought it new, had it since '69 - I haven't been challenged on the roads around here in a long time. Other car is a 2001 BMW Z-3 very high tech Double VANOS valve train, etc. The Z is actually quicker to 45 than the 'bird. The 'Bird then will leave the Z behind up till about 125 then it runs out of revs. The Z's top end is higher with the top up and lower with the top down - go figure.

They are different cars for different purposes, but the bottom line is they are both fun. My message is to enjoy your car and respect it for what it is - not what the other guy's car isn't

Amen... different purposes. What would be ideal is something like the LS6. It's technology with displacement. Bow to the LS6...

Originally posted by AlexB
Look you newbies... what's the fastest i4 and fastest V8? My point proven...

Fasterthanu... don't ask them about compression ratios, cam lift, etc... I have yet to see someone that stupid know how a car actually works. All most ricers do is talk shit.


i don't see why you talking about that stuff

no one ever compares the right things


Camaro SS vs Supra TT
Trans AM vs RX7 TT

Mustang GT vs Silvia S15 Spec R

Civic vs Sunfire GT
Sentra SER vs Neon R/T

fair enough?

I'm not arguing that almost all V-8's will kill a I-4, because they will. But all you said was that no stock I-4(S2000) could beat a stock V-8 sports car(mustang). You didn't say anything about weight or price before. So basically all I am saying is that it is possible for a little 2 liter 4 cylinder S2000 to beat a V-8 Mustang GT. You are right though in confirming that the Honda is much more of a pure sports car than the mustang because it weighs less and is a 2-seater, not to mention its chassis and suspension is far superior. So I agree with you there.

Also AlexB, I am not rice at all. It is just that I have alot of respect for the S2000 motor. At the same time i also have alot of respect when I get in my friends Z28 and he shows me what real torque feels like. Personally I think the new M3 is the best of both worlds with 333bhp and an 8000 redline in a V-6. Although it is about 50,000, so I guess thats why.

I meant inline 6 in the M3:eek:

i'm kinda shocked that people are questiong how good the S2000 engine is....thats probably one of the most technilogically advanced engines out there. sure its in a 2 door roadster...not very practical. but how comfortable can 2 adults fit in the back seats of mustangs? i'm 6ft tall and have a hard tiem back there. and yes, the LS1 is pretty techy....in regards to 8 cylinders. it still doesnt match up to the tech in a vtec or vanos system. alexb you seem to be comparing the worth of 8's to 4's. and we all know that displacement wins. but saying that smaller displacement engines suck is ignorant. and the only reason that the S2000 engine makes alot of HP is NOT because it revs high. its because of factory performance headers, intake, exhaust, and vtec. it has more HP per liter than almost any other car out there on the road.

i originall got hooked on cars because of the mustang and its mighty 8 cylinders. but after a while i saw imports, civics, integras, skylines etc. and i realized that its just a matter of preference. i have respect for v8's, but i like imports better. so what if it takes more cash to make it as fast or faster than an 8....its my money. a civic can made to be just as fast, if not faster than a mustang gt. a wrx (with about 5k mods mind you) can be made to beat a new vette (non z06). both of those are low displacement 4's. and the skyline??? i dont need to even say anything about that.

Hey now! I never said small engines suck. We were debating displacement and speed. Some guys started flaming and I got back. Never did I say that small engine suck. All I was saying is that for straightline speed, they're not the best. Furthermore, working on small engines is just as fun as the big ones... especially tuning them -- but they still wont be as fast as the tuned V8's... that's all I was saying. And of course a turbo i4 w/ 5k in mods will beat something like a 350 or so hp vette... compare stock with stock and modified with modified. Because a vette with 5k in mods (supercharger, exhaust, intake) won't be able to be touched by a WRX.

gc1chad --- I did not call you rice, did I? I was calling the car rice. Of course it's possible for a 4 cylinder to beat a V8 if it's as well tuned and full of valvetrain tricks as the S2000. I was just reading some specifications that were way off at the beginning.


And yes I totally agree with the comparrisons of Z28 vs Supra TT, etc... You can't compare family cars with sports cars, but this is what some guys were trying to do. As you see from my earlier posts I said that we should compare sports vs sports not sports vs econo car.

Originally posted by AlexB
And of course a turbo i4 w/ 5k in mods will beat something like a 350 or so hp vette... compare stock with stock and modified with modified. Because a vette with 5k in mods (supercharger, exhaust, intake) won't be able to be touched by a WRX.

or we could compare pricewise, for the price of a new corvette (stock) u could get a new wrx and put a LOT of upgrades on it, so theres another way to look at it which gives the wrx the advantage...

Or you can get a supercharged mustang GT for the same price as a stock WRX if you want to play that game...

if you can find a supercharger, intake, and exhaust for a vette for under 5k, show me....cause i'm skeptical.

and you can compare stock vs stock all day, and mod vs mod.....thats here. on the street, your not gonna role down your window and ask them if they have mods. and isnt it interesting to see a modded econobox beat an 8 cylinder?

in the end though, it comes down to style and preference....i prefer japanese imports over domestics, but i stll have respect for the domestics.

the new hyundai tiburon is 180hp and a 6 speed, $16,000 u could supercharge one of those for the price of a stock mustang gt...

I prefer anything that's fast and doesnt cost more than an average size house. LS1 Vortech S-Trim --> $3200 exhaust --> $1500 K&N CAI --> $200

but its still a hyundai.. im reminded of the saying "you can chrome an armadillo, but its still an armadillo"

what supercharged mustang GT can you get for 24k????

Eh there's GT's for 21k from the dealer... even less if you dont get other crap. 3k supercharger and you're set. Screw that though get a 5.0 and throw 5k into it... you wont know what to do with the power.

i'm still skeptical bout the S/C mustang gt costing less than a wrx. you would have lots of power in a 5.0 with 5k mods. but i would still rather have the import.....for looks, and style. i can more easily make my car fit my personality, and reflect me rather than a mustang. much more body mod options as opposed to the mustang, or firebird, or things of the like.

Oh yea... I HATE the way the 99 and up mustangs look. And since the F-bodies are going extinct (for a few years at least), the only thing that's left that I like is the vette, which isn't practical for me.

I'm not some muscle car buff by the way... I love the 300ZX TT, Supra TT, 3000GT VR4, and RX7. They got enough displacement for good torque -- which is what I look for. They're incredibly capable of performance a 4 cylinder couldnt achieve easily.

subarus horizontally opposed engines give it torque that a similar-displacement i-4 cant achieve... which is one of the reasons i like them. :)

Yea I saw that... H4... weird little thing.

Originally posted by Nxtyoung


First oh number 3 i think you just proved AlexB right. The drivers of the V8's are either drunk or not raceing or bad drivers. I'm sorry there are NO STOCK 4 cylinders that could beat a V8
As for number 5, show me the sites or the catalogs to get headers, intake, open b pipe, crank pulley, flywheel, clutch, fuel pump, injectors, cams, cam gears, ported head, ignition, and fuel pressure riser all for $2000. might want to go back to basics of math.
how about an s2000 think a trans am s gonna beat that stock or any f-body.:rolleyes: :devil:

Originally posted by ldelaysionl
check it out this goes along with what youre saying...

http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/374944ricemag.jpg
http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/547617ricemag2.jpg

my favorite is the "road test: civic dx vs corvette z06 in a supercar shootout" :hehehe: :hehe:

thats pretty gay :bandit:

THATS SOME FUNNY SHIT!!! :cwn27: :cwn27: :cwn27: :cwn27:

I agree that it is all about your own preferance in cars. I can understand why people buy mustangs and camaros as well as imports. The bottom line is, whether you like imports or domestics, at least your buying cars and not SUV's!!

Originally posted by gc1chad
I agree that it is all about your own preferance in cars. I can understand why people buy mustangs and camaros as well as imports. The bottom line is, whether you like imports or domestics, at least your buying cars and not SUV's!! or trucks :P

I can see someone needing a truck for work or something... but what's with all this white trash that use them for daily commuting? And SUVs... in this day we all know that at any moment we might have to go offroad in the city.

thats my point o yea i need an SUV so i can shine my lights into the eyes of the person infront

its the most annoying thing ever and you can't excape cuz its wider than you car and shine in the side mirrors!

Originally posted by NSX-R-SSJ20K
thats my point o yea i need an SUV so i can shine my lights into the eyes of the person infront

its the most annoying thing ever and you can't excape cuz its wider than you car and shine in the side mirrors!

That fuckin shit happens to me all the time:mad: Stupid ass SUVs, what a waste of freakin gas, I swear..........

Originally posted by NB8CT


That fuckin shit happens to me all the time:mad: Stupid ass SUVs, what a waste of freakin gas, I swear..........

Yeah , and talking about off-road most of the suvs won't do a damn thing in the off-road , anyway owners of those black pearl suvs with chrome wheels and creme leather somehow don't like to take their gas guzzlers off road. Those are pepole who think "off road" is the parking of the shopping mall... it's pathetic , the current generation in the us is laughing at their fathers and grandfathers for drving gas guzzlers and they do exactly the same thing... That's for the US , here pepole don't care for others on the road , the roads are narrow , they have a lot of curves and pepole drive fast so fortunatelly they aren't popular here at all... And some pepole think that SUVs perform good in snow or other slippery conditions , but this is also BS , and there are some 2WD suvs which are total POS. Damn , why pepole keep buying them? You want to drive your whole family? Take two cars , they'll drink less gas anyway and instead of buying some $hit put on a pick-up chassis for 60k $ , you can either buy a minivan for 30k that is able to carry more or buy a sports car and still have a lot of money for performance upgrades...

SUV's all seem to be too big i mean take a real off road vehicle the land rover discovery and its smaller than these hunks o junk that cadillac makes or ford excursion(more like around the world) and then theres the suburban ( which shouild be more like state or something)

Originally posted by Tom_S8
...won't do a damn thing in the off-road...gas guzzlers...the roads are narrow , they have a lot of curves and pepole drive fast...pepole think that SUVs perform good in snow or other slippery conditions , but this is also BS...You want to drive your whole family?...$hit put on a pick-up chassis for 60k $

u want a vehicle with better than average off-road performance, good dirt and gravel performance, good gas milage, good on twisty roads, good on snow, ice, or other slippery conditions, carry a lot of stuff, and doesnt cost a lot? buy a subaru wagon! :) its more suv than most actual suv's are.

AlexB-

I think that you misunderstand the meaning of displacement. Displacement is the amount of space in the combustion chamber with teh piston at top dead center. Therefore you cannot increase displacement with a turbo charger or a super charger.

jeez. it must've taken me like 4 hours to get through that whole argument/discussion. anyhow, everything seems to be cleared up. i'd just like to give props to the dude a few pages back who realized/made clear the fact that imports are made primarily for handling purposes and domestics are geared more towards straight line acceleration and dragging. One thing i'm surprised no one took into consideration was insurance, but no need to start anything on that now, i was just thinking that you're gonna pay next to nothing for insurance on a civic or something, whereas on a domestic they're more likely to slap you with some higher prices (especially for young males like me)...just some food for thought.

p.s. i think a moderator should just kill this thread to save any other poor soul the pain i've just been through reading this whole thing and trying to digest all these arguments in one sitting...

What about a F-150 lightning?

what about the f-150 lightning? its a truck....

the Lightning is a sick truck... rivals the 'vette in the 1/4 mi. definetely a ballsy machine

Originally posted by ToddB
AlexB-

I think that you misunderstand the meaning of displacement. Displacement is the amount of space in the combustion chamber with teh piston at top dead center. Therefore you cannot increase displacement with a turbo charger or a super charger.

Read more carefully and don't take things so literally. I was relating displacement to flow. :smoker:

actually, displacement is the total volume of the cylinder bore with the piston at bottom dead center plus the volume of the combustion chamber in the head.

Take a look at that new SRT-10 Ram
Blows the Hades out of the Ford Lightning

and by the way
RICERS SUCK :flipa:
AND SCREW JAP-CRAP :flipa:
(excluding the vr4 and supra tt) :)

Originally posted by ToddB
AlexB-

I think that you misunderstand the meaning of displacement. Displacement is the amount of space in the combustion chamber with teh piston at top dead center. Therefore you cannot increase displacement with a turbo charger or a super charger.

nice one einstein thanks for that waste of bandwidth

i drove a Gt mustang the other week i shoulda tried the F150 lightning that woulda been more fun damnit


banchi there is no rooms for that sort of bullshit you missed out the RX7 and 300ZX TT not to mention all the other decent imports


and honda's are good cuz they're cheap do you think everyone can afford a Transam

(RX7 is like 13 grand some places) i mean i know that some accords have stupid wings that don't help and they have 13 inch enkeis which my stock rims on my pos corolla beat but thats beside the point .... i actually can beat that car with a corolla ... ok never mind but shut up ok quit yer yappin.. we heard it all before

banchi, you need to learn what your talkin about before you go and say "jap crap". a nicely tuned civic can blow the doors off of alot of cars. look at the integra GSR...couple mods, throw in a turbo, you have a 300 hp car. not to mention the s2000, or the nsx, or the skyline, the list goes on buddy.

and i just gotta say this, sorry everyone, but i realy dont like trucks, they're meant to haul stuff, not to have 23 in rims and go fast. kinda country if you ask me. but just my opinion.....

I agree. And a few other great Jap cars......Mitsu EvoVII, Impreza WRX & STI, nissan Silvia, Mazda RX-8 and Nissan 350Z (almost here), Toyota Altezza (basically a IS300).

How many American sports cars are there these days? Thats what I thought!!!:hehehe:

Hey that hurts, :( "how many american sports cars are there?" :( yeah your right not many. at least the ones that are left are still good ones :) (ZO6 vette, F-bird and Camaro(well at least for one more year :( ) dodge viper (even thought no one can afford one) the SSR thats coming out has a pretty ass kickin 5.7L 300 something HP (LS1 I think) ) there might be a few more that didn't come to mind but, don't blame it on America blame it on the car buyers they are the ones that decided that weak ugly shitboxes were OK and that sports cars were too impracticle. GM and Ford and all of the other aren't gonna be like "fuck you guys were gonna make powerful RWD sports cars anyway even if you guys don't buy them." thats not the way buisness works you put out whats sells and in America weak ugly shitboxes are whats sells. If I had my way there would be a hell of a lot more sports cars but thats not the way it is. to all of you new car buyers out there who bought all of the shit boxes and made the American sports car market pretty much dissapper thanks a lot :finger4:

oh shit I forgot the Ford Mustang and the Focus SVT as well as the lightning ( if you wanna talk trucks)

Originally posted by banchi105
Take a look at that new SRT-10 Ram
Blows the Hades out of the Ford Lightning


Yeah, that SRT-10 Ram is going to kill the Lightning in every way. I think even the new 5.9L Hemi will ba able to keep up with the Lightning. I did see a Hemi Ram on Hot Rod TV a few days ago, and that will kill all three. They took the new Ram, pulled the engine and dropped a 528ci Hemi under the hood. Now Chevy can cram that 454 up their ass. I get sick of hearing them say we have the most powerful V8 when Dodge and Ford offer a V10 that is much more powerful. But I would take a Chevy over a Ford anyday of the week. Dodge is making a power comeback, and they have come to kick ass and chew bubble gum, and their all out of gum.

Wow, you are so right!! I don't know what I could do with that extra $8000 I would save on the mustang anyway! I'd much rather spend it on a little car with less horsepower and less potential. At least I could sit in a parking lot and rev my motor until people think I'm cool!!

sorry this thread is so damn long I thought I was on the last page...guess not!! I was just reading the comparison on the mustang gt and s2000, but I don't even know where it went...guess that's done so you can ignore my last post!

"Firebird", I wasn't raggin on American Sports Cars, I have so much respect for the ZO6, Viper, Camaro SS & Z28, Mustang Cobra, and so on. It just sucks that it seems like American car companies arent making as many sports cars anymore. Your right that it is the buyer however and not so much the car company.
So come on people, buy sports cars not SUV's!
:)

Hey it OK I knew exactly whats you ment:) I just get so pissed off that all I get to see when I drive around is big assed SUV's or crappy assed minivans. when you think about it a F-bird or a stang is way cheaper than an SUV or a minivan and can carry almost as many people I mean if you need it carry more than 5 people (actually F-birds only carry 4 :) ) Buy a big ol' van or SUV but if you have the money and are only carting your own ass around why the hell would you spend 30,000+ on an SUV? me personally I'd like to save some cash so I'd go with the sports cars. It just pisses me off that Japan and others get to make a whole bunch of sports cars and we get stuck with like 5. I Know sports cars will always be popular and they'll probabily always be around but if we don't start selling more they'll all end up like the F-bird/Camaros on hiatus which could mean a 2 year break or they'll never come back :( I don't want that to happen and I know a lot of others don't either.

No question there Firebird. :(

I'm with you on the shitbox situation Firebird. Too many. :( makes me sad that good money's going to waste on suv's/minivans/and (cough, cough) many many imports. There's some nice rice burners out here, but the vast majority of them do come in stock performance trim plus a full body kit, stickers, and coffee-can exhaust. Our American generation is dumb to let real muscle die like the Camaro and Firebirds. I'm more pissed off because that means my Mustang will be the only option for people to turn to, and I already see enough of them. We're turning this nation's auto-selection into cookie-cutter. I refuse to buy Jap, I'll take the old-school v-8 route until they cease making them, and then, I'll still refuse to get into that 4-banger or v-6 as anything more than my winter-beater. America, today is a sad day...FOR SHAME ON EACH OF YOU. :(

yeah I know what your saying there are a lot of stangs out there but hey at least they ARE stilll AROUND. I'd give anything to see nothing but Mustangs driving around if it meant that all of those butt ugly Azteks, Avalances, and other SUV's and minivans went away. I personally don't have the cash to buy a new Firebird/Camaro, or Mustang, if I did I would but since I can't I bought the next best thing. I love the sound and feel of a strong American V-8 running through a RWD drivetrain and nothing will ever change that. Which means if all of the cars start going FWD and 4 and 6 cyl. I guess I'll have to stay a used car buyer, but thats fine with me I can always fix them up as long as the aftermarket and junkyards stay around. ;)

I'd rather drive a used v-8 than a new 4-banging import... :D

It all comes down to power to weight ratio...

Imports = light weight + Lower torque
Domestics = heavy weight + high torque

You should do like me and get the best of both worlds. Im in the middle of building a 73 240Z with a hot 350 chevy mill. Lets see here a 2600lb car with 430lb/ft of torque??

Both imports and domestics are great! I feel its really someting to make a 2.0 outrun a 5.0! That IMO is awsome. At the same time import people need to give the locals their due!

Originally posted by Tinseltown349
I'd rather drive a used v-8 than a new 4-banging import... :D

lets take a look ey

a new S15 spec R four banging import produces 260hp and so does the Mustang GT

it all depends on preference if you think the mustang looks better fine i don't i think its incredibly ugly.

and i'd like to make one point the difference isn't 8000 its more about 15000 in response to that 2 post newbie

and 15000 can buy you engine work and the turbo that'll beat you good ey?