10 Rice Commandments

dont be mad cuz a wagon can outrun your celica! youll be sorry when those groceries fly outta my window and hit your windshield cuz youre behind me. :D

seriously calm down man. backin me up is fine but dont go off saying stuff like u that cuz if i hadnt given u that remark then one of the domestic owners would have. i may prefer imports, but i can appreciate all forms of autodom, including v8s. maybe i dont like them, but i respect them for their speed and i can appreciate a fellow car enthusiast, import or domestic.

i like celica gts's, they can give me a good run! have u done anything to yours? got any pics? well anyways welcome to af! :)

Originally posted by godsfather
you know this guy is mad.. i got him good:zx11pissed :

nope sorry, didnt get me, i like my wagon, i mean i did have the choice of wagon or sedan, and i got a wagon and all...

godsfather- you'd better hope i don't see your cocky ass on the road anytime soon, because i will blow your doors completely off. as far as resale value goes, my car has gone way up over the past 3 years that i've owned it. in fact, if i sold it right now, i'd be making money. your top speed is only 158? geez, with the Chevelle, i've had it up to 165 and it was still accelerating very strong(top speed is prob around 180 or so), pulled a mid 11 second quarter, gone 0-60 in 5 seconds flat, laid out 100ft strips of rubber, and can pull the front end off the ground when launching. i guess those V8s really suck then, huh?

what exactly have you done to your motor? specifically to get 11.5:1 CR. what rings are you running, what's your chamber volume, what kind of pistons do u have etc..... i find it hard to believe that someone would go through the effort to run a 11.5:1 motor (with anything past 10:1, can you say race gas?), and only be making 209HP.... and don't waste your time picking a fight with ldelaysionl, he knows his shit as well as i do

you gotta realize that V8s were made for different purposes than modern smaller motors... they were made for going in a straight line as fast as possible with balls-out raw power, while modern motors were designed to go with a car made for handling, and can't handle the weight or torque of a cast iron 8-cyl block

umm, anything past 10.1 needs race gas??? not really, the Civic Type-R's and Integra Type-R's are running 10.1 and 11.1 respectively. (i'm almost sure) and they run on pump gas last time i checked. and the comment about your chevelle going 180.... i have a real hard time believing that, the aerodynamics wouldnt let it go that fast, and if it did, you would move hte wheel a centimeter and be flyin all over the road.....but i mean no disrespect.


i've had this argument hundreds of times at school, and it always seems that the domestic fans are really ignorant and close minded to the whole import scene. i know two guys, one has an 84 chevy el camino SS (real gorgeous car......wait??) and the other has a 99 camaro SS. The camaro is really fast, and the camino thinks its fast. They both say that no matter how many mods on a 1.8l 4cyl. there is it wont be able to beat a v8. and then when i try to explain, they just keep talking, and persist in being ignorant. i told one of them that Vishnu WRX (Sport Compact Car mag.) with about 6 grand thrown in it (new slightly larger turbo, new exhaust, suspension improvements, new downpipe) could beat a vette in 0-60mph and it was better handling. he didnt believe me of course, i even brought in the magazine and he went as far to say it was a misprint, or human error.

i have respect for domestics and 8 cylinders, those are what i orignially liked, and got hooked on. but now i'm an import fan. they are both used for different purposes. a modded v8 is best for straight line acceleration, and a modded import is best for handling.

i'm sorry, the CR was supposed to be 10.5:1. my bad, i forgot to put the .5 in. anyways, it's a matter of physics. simple fact- octane is gasolines resistance to pre-ignition. the higher the octane, the higher the resistance. each grade of gasoline has a certain threshold as far as the highest compression it can tolerate. the fact is that 93 octanes threshold for preignition is at 10.5:1- once it exceeds this, it self detonates. it is a simple fact of engine building. computer controlled knock sensors can help to a point, but ultimately it's a matter of physics. this information is taken from my experience with building motors, and the experience of the people i know.

as far as 180mph as a top speed (no disrespect taken), it is estimated. the fastest i have gone is 165, and it was still pulling very strong, so naturally, i extrapolated and that was about where i ended up. it's probably (more than likely) a bit on the optimistic side, but it's just an approximation. i have no intention of going that fast again, simply because i'm not THAT sick in the head

i know you probably know a lot more than me about cars, i know alot, but i dont have alot of first hand experience. anyway, how do you justify the Integra Type-R running since it has 11.1 compression?

this example of the Type R is a really interesting apparent violation of traditional rules. i'm researching it right now because it really has me interested as to how they can do it.:)

could you do me a favor and let me know your findings? its interested me now too.

hmmmm.... i've looked at some stuff adn it seems there are two type r's out there.. one with 11:1 which i found on some UK pages, and one with 10.6:1 which i found on some US pages. i'm also not sure what the octane ratings in the UK convert to over here. but on the apparent US model, with the 10.6:1, it is definetely feasible to make it run on 93 octane pump gas. i'd imagine that since they're running right on the brink of pre-ignition, that they would program the computer system to run slightly rich in terms of the mixture to avoid detonation on the temporary lean condition that occurs during the first stage of hard acceleration, which would be critical in a motor of this type.

if i'm off on anything, let me know, ok?

The USDM Type R has 10.6 compression, so that is feasible with the explanations you gave. but yeah, the JDM and Euro Type R's get the 11.1 compression. and like you, i dont know the conversions for octane over there.....but i thikn they might be stricter. dont ask me how i think i know that, but i remember hearing that its stricter over there in japan and europe.

Fastr, I totally agree with your post a ways back in reply to mine. You are completely right, there is no chance in hell that a naturally aspirated 4 banger will out run a naturally aspirated v8 on the drag strip. I was just trying to support whoever it was earlier that said because of technology and other toys like turbos then it is possible for smaller displacement cars to have a chance. However, it all really depends on the weight to power ratio. It's generally accepted that anything with at least 1 HP for every 10lbs of car is pretty quick. If you can surpass the 10 to 1 ratio then your starting to get into the respected territory. I've seen naturally aspirated engines, ones that rev very high, like 10,000+ RPM that from a 1.8 can get about 250HP and around 200lbs of torque. Sure thats not much but when these engines can be put into cars with a curb weight of like 1900lbs, then you've got a fairly competitive little car. Sure it's not the same as a well built big block, but still pretty respectable.

Personally i think we should all agree here and now to change the old saying "theres no replacement for displacement" to "there's no replacement for a good power to weight ratio".

So let's end with the arguing, we're all friends here with a common interest. We should be helping each other!

Originally posted by fastrThanU
godsfather- you'd better hope i don't see your cocky ass on the road anytime soon, because i will blow your doors completely off. as far as resale value goes, my car has gone way up over the past 3 years that i've owned it. in fact, if i sold it right now, i'd be making money. your top speed is only 158? geez, with the Chevelle, i've had it up to 165 and it was still accelerating very strong(top speed is prob around 180 or so), pulled a mid 11 second quarter, gone 0-60 in 5 seconds flat, laid out 100ft strips of rubber, and can pull the front end off the ground when launching. i guess those V8s really suck then, huh?

what exactly have you done to your motor? specifically to get 11.5:1 CR. what rings are you running, what's your chamber volume, what kind of pistons do u have etc..... i find it hard to believe that someone would go through the effort to run a 11.5:1 motor (with anything past 10:1, can you say race gas?), and only be making 209HP.... and don't waste your time picking a fight with ldelaysionl, he knows his shit as well as i do

you gotta realize that V8s were made for different purposes than modern smaller motors... they were made for going in a straight line as fast as possible with balls-out raw power, while modern motors were designed to go with a car made for handling, and can't handle the weight or torque of a cast iron 8-cyl block

is your car really solid and all the bits re welded cuz i'm scarred getting past 100mph :(

Originally posted by ImportNut1212
and the comment about your chevelle going 180.... i have a real hard time believing that, the aerodynamics wouldnt let it go that fast, and if it did, you would move hte wheel a centimeter and be flyin all over the road.....but i mean no disrespect.

he said it COULD go 180, he didnt say anybody is crazy enough to WANT to go 180 in it. :D

very true :) I've got absolutely no problems with doing 150 in a 91 protege, but i think to make the jump up another 30 i'd want to ahve the suspnsion checked first. Now a 60's muscle car, thats a different story, like i said, those things weren't exactly made for handling. :)

the Chevelle was completely rebuilt about 2 years ago from the frame on up, but it still gets pretty hairy after 150 even though the shocks and springs are stiffer

Originally posted by CAptynCrunch

Personally i think we should all agree here and now to change the old saying "theres no replacement for displacement" to "there's no replacement for a good power to weight ratio".



well said, CaptynCrunch. that's one of the smartest ideas i have heard on here in a while. sounds like the words of a true car guy...

Originally posted by godsfather
:finger: Heres why..... my car.. a 2001 toyota celica gts 1.8 liter 4 cyl. makes 209 hp and 159 ft. lbs. of torque and compression isnt a big problem either.. it does 11.5:1 compression non turbo by the way as for mods k&n filter and a "fart muffler" ( which gives me 15 lbs of torque and 19 hp). oh and a low top speed of 158.7mph in under 45 seconds. you wont catch me and if you want to see my car better not blink when i blow by your Camaro/Rustang or whatever waste of gas low resale value P.O.S. v8 your driving.:finger: smoke one for me:bandit:


www.nextcelica.org

You are one of the biggest retards yet. I have to raise the BS flage here. You don't even know how to add. Your car has 180HP stock yet you say you have 209. Now you say that what you have done gave you a 19HP increase, that would leave you at 199HP not 209HP. Besides these is no way that a K&N ari filter and a cat back exaust would put 19HP and 15 ft/lbs or tourque on your car. I would say you got about 5HP from both. So that would leave you with 185HP at the flywheel. Whooop di freaking dooooo. And I would like to know how your car gets 11.5:1 compression on 91 octane pump gas. Oh and 159MPH in your car, HA! More like 159KPH. I wouldn't dare drive over 140 in your car with such horrible suspension and that car would shake like a tin can. You know nothing about cars and, you must be some dumb kid that watches too much T.V. My car would eat you alive. Just imagine what a good old V8 would do to you. There is nothing you could say that would make me believe you. Because on the info I have been given what you are claiming is IMPOSSIBLE. Oh and you could not turbocharge a car with an 11.5:1 compression. You would blow that engine sky high, moron. And also your car only has an 9:1 or 10:1 at the most. Come out to Utah sometime and I'll eat your pathetic Celica for lunch. Mmmm fried rice.

hmmmmm the gt-s has horrible suspension? where did you get this info from polygon? i know that it would shake horribly when it goes anywhere above 130mph becuase its only a 4 cylinder. but i always thought the gt-s had nice suspension. oh wellz:confused:

Well I am saying that stock that suspension is not meant to handle moving at 159MPH. Sure making sharp turns a 30-50MPH great, but 160MPH one little mistake and you're dead. What does it matter? There is no way that his car can do that kind of speed anyhow.

funny how none of the domestic people are mentionining anything about a skyline or supra, i would like to see a fully modded muscle car go up against a fully modded r34 or mkivTT the engines in those cars were made to be modded and can go upto 1600HP although they may not last too long, im sure they can last a life time with around 1200HP,
and there are 7second gt-rs in japan, as for 4 cylinders, what would a 800HP silvia do, i heard sr20dets can be modded upto 800hp, as for your 6second V8s, lets see how drivable a 6second car is thats 30 years old, i went to watch drag races for the 1st time at a drag strip and there was a 8 second domestic car there and the car had to be towed to the straight, these things are pure drag cars, not a car you can pick up your gf in or go see your mates in, i would prefere a 10second silvia or supra or skyline rather than a 8second v8 that cant take a bend for some odd reason.

There is no way you will find any import engine that gan go in a straight line faster than the big domestic V8s. Hell you can get a 528 Hemi crate motor. Right out of the box it has around 700HP and 700ft/lbs of torque. They even use them in top fuel dragsters and have gotten 6000-7000HP out of the 528 Hemi. And they scoot down the 1/4 mile in about 3 seconds. You can quickly get over 1500HP out of any Hemi and still drive it around and for a lot cheaper than an import engine. And I can vouch for the power of the Hemi first hand. Besides it isn't the only engine. A 454 is pretty damn powerful and so are 427s. Oh and don't give that handleing bullshit. You can make any car handle. People always say domestics can't handle, you are comparing technology of now to technology from the 60s and 70s. Compare imports of that time and they couldn't handle for shit either.

i beg to differ. back around that time nissan had released the original Z, the 510. while mazada released the first gen RX-7. those cars were crap for straight away but they sure could turn a whole lot better then the demostics of that era.

Originally posted by TatII
i beg to differ. back around that time nissan had released the original Z, the 510. while mazada released the first gen RX-7. those cars were crap for straight away but they sure could turn a whole lot better then the demostics of that era.

True, but there were some domestics that could turn just as good as those. I just get tired of people comparing todays cars to 60s and 70s car in handling.

Polygon- the 1970 AAR 'Cuda with the 340 is a perfect case-in-point as being one of the best handling vintage musclecars produced

you know what i'm wondering? why is it that everytime we have a topic like this. it always ends up being the whole import vs. domestic thing?

Ahh the good old AAR Cuda, I have a model of one of those.

TatII, it is inevitable there is now way to avoid it. Someone always has to go OT and start the never ending debate over again. Oh well.

yeah, from the name of this topic alone, we should've saw this coming along time ago. it just took like 2 pages though before it turned into a whole vs. battle.

Originally posted by MaFi0s0
funny how none of the domestic people are mentionining anything about a skyline or supra, i would like to see a fully modded muscle car go up against a fully modded r34 or mkivTT the engines in those cars were made to be modded and can go upto 1600HP although they may not last too long, im sure they can last a life time with around 1200HP,
and there are 7second gt-rs in japan, as for 4 cylinders, what would a 800HP silvia do, i heard sr20dets can be modded upto 800hp, as for your 6second V8s, lets see how drivable a 6second car is thats 30 years old, i went to watch drag races for the 1st time at a drag strip and there was a 8 second domestic car there and the car had to be towed to the straight, these things are pure drag cars, not a car you can pick up your gf in or go see your mates in, i would prefere a 10second silvia or supra or skyline rather than a 8second v8 that cant take a bend for some odd reason.

First of all what polygon was mentioning was that the celica gts mentioned earlier could NOT reach 160MPH and that the specs of it are BS. And he is right. He never mentined anything about the supra or the skyline because his point was diffrent.
But even cars like the supra or the skyline cannot compare in straight out mods with something like a hemi 528.
I mean yeah if you have enough money you can get well above 1000HP out of an skyline but it will be nothing close to 7000HP that you can get out of an 528.
and people here are not trashing imports they are just talking on each car case by case. Because its true there are some crappy imports but there are crappy domestics too and vice versa. I for example even though i like domestics right now i am considering the 350z wich if well priced will make an awesome car.

sieg NISSAN!!!

Ooo, I would love to have a Fairlady Z. I think the 300 looks better than the 350, but thats just me.

yeah the specs on the new 350 look really nice! i personally would like to find a good cheap 240-260-280 i could play around in.

Homer:Mmm 350z......

Yea yea... I'm tired of people modifying HORRIBLE SLOW non sports cars and claiming they are "fast." It's all about sports vs econo fart not import vs domestic.

Originally posted by AlexB
Yea yea... I'm tired of people modifying HORRIBLE SLOW non sports cars and claiming they are "fast." It's all about sports vs econo fart not import vs domestic.

I know what you mean that why i am waiting for the new fairlady so we can get back some real japanese sport cars.

the new rx8 looks like itll be a good one too. i think it was 276 hp, same as the previous rx7 turbo, but this time its all motor. crazy that u can buy a naturally aspirated 1.3 liter that makes 250+hp from the factory :bloated:
new renesis rotary is cooooooool :eek2:

stop doggin on civics you fucking cunt. ill fuckin come down to your hick town an smack the shit outta you an your faggot dick riding friends. let ppl drive wut they wanna drive an quick being a dike ass bitch. fucking fag.

Originally posted by ldelaysionl
the new rx8 looks like itll be a good one too. i think it was 276 hp, same as the previous rx7 turbo, but this time its all motor. crazy that u can buy a naturally aspirated 1.3 liter that makes 250+hp from the factory :bloated:
new renesis rotary is cooooooool :eek2:

yeah the new rx8 will be fast but i don't like its looks that much. I think the 350z is much beter looking.

Originally posted by CivR
stop doggin on civics you fucking cunt. ill fuckin come down to your hick town an smack the shit outta you an your faggot dick riding friends. let ppl drive wut they wanna drive an quick being a dike ass bitch. fucking fag.


Look who's flaming... little stupid boy. Civics aren't fast. Been there done that... you can drive what you want to drive but I'll call you what I want to call you. Civics = slow econo car. I don't think there's anyone that would disagree with that.

PLEASE come down to my town... West Melbourne, Florida 32904. I'll be waiting to fuck your asian pussy. We can have a large feast where I'll cook/fuck some cheap rice.

Go to school and learn more english than "faggot dick ass bitch" and then maybe you'll be able to make a better impression than a newbie with a slow car. You flaming teenager newbie... you give cars a bad name.

And anyway you can't say that 1.3L isn't a lot of displacement for a rotary -- because it is moderate. Wankels work on different principles and you can't compare them to piston cars. The 1.3L rotary still guzzles as much gas as a V8 or V6.

And let's say you have a 1.6L Civic pushing out the stock 115hp. Don't tell me if that engine was 2L or more that you wouldnt have more power and torque.

first of all civics are "very" slow. Earlier in the discussion people were saying that 4-cyclinders cannot beat V8's stock vs stock and NA, that is wrong. Take an S2000 vs a Mustang GT and lets see who wins the 1/4 mile.:hehe:

Dude first look at the price tags...

Second look at the specs:

S2000

0-60 mph in 6.7 sec. 1/4-mile in 15.1 sec.



Mustang

Acceleration: 0-60 mph in 6.8 sec. 1/4-mile in 15.1 sec.



Thirdly, the S2000 is a 2 seater. Its practicality as an everyday car is therefore limited. It also obviously weighs so much less... the V8 is still the more powerful of the two engines. A simple intake on the Mustang will get you more power than an intake on the S2000 will... $150 on both cars and the Mustang will win the 1/4.

Don't get me wrong... the S2000 is a badass car and would outmaneuver the stock Mustang's suspension. But we're talking about engines here.

S2000 is an overpriced peice of shit. If you want to run Hondas top dog against a Ford why don't you run it against the new Cobra. 390hp blown 4.6 DOHC, for less than the S2000. And it will out handle that thing any day.

Originally posted by AlexB
And anyway you can't say that 1.3L isn't a lot of displacement for a rotary -- because it is moderate. Wankels work on different principles and you can't compare them to piston cars. The 1.3L rotary still guzzles as much gas as a V8 or V6.

yeah i know... a rotor fires 3 times per revolution, so the twin rotor in the rx7-rx8 fires 6 times per revolution same as a conventional v6. but still... that much power, 79 cubic inches, no forced induction, impressive nevertheless. and only 29 moving parts to top it all off so very little drivetrain loss. also in a conventional piston motor the force is transferred from up-down motion to rotational motion, but in the rotary it is rotational force from the beginning.

sorry.... i like rotarys.... :D

Yes I'll agree... the rotary engine is amazing. It should have become main-stream. Best power/weight ratio of any internal combustion engine used in cars.


But hey this is what we have to look foreward to in the next 10 years: the introduction of methanol, ethanol, and fuel cell cars. I'm especially looking foreward to fuel cells as that is some crazy crap. I bet we'll be going twice as fast as now in those cars... no pollution out of any of those either. They'll be able to make mass amounts of any of those fuels at inexpensive prices... once again we wont have to really worry about fuel consumption. They'll go hog-wild with the sports cars then!

BMW already has 7 fuel cell sedans that they're showing off around in Europe... and no we won't blow up a block if we have an accident with a tank full of hydrogen. The gas will be stored in another material or some kind of sponge. It will then be catalyzed out when it needs to be used.

Eh sorry this was way off topic but I felt like saying it anyway...

Most definitly! Rx's are by far the greatest cars ever concieved! I mean a 1.3L that can be pushed to like 800+ HP!!! Oh yeah, and if i'm not mistaken the Rx-8 uses a 3! rotor engine(i could be wrong, this might be something i read long ago when it was still only rumors) and my uncle works at the local dealership, apparently it's got more power then any Rx-7 ever put out(even without a turbo) and it weighs less then the FD's did. It's suppposed to do 196 off the showroom floor. INSANE!!!!

I don't know how many discussions I have had about this subject, but I still like to put in my 2 cents worth.

I like V-8's as much as anyone, but to catagorize v-8's versus 4 cylinders is ridiculous. they are completely different. The Lamborgini V-12 of 15 years ago has a worse 0-60 time than a new wrx 4 cylinder subaru. don't beleive me, then read the new sport compact car magazine.

I have beat alot of V-8's with mine. It will smoke any stock camaro in a street race. plain and simple. could a camaro beat some 4 cylinders, sure. but all? f**k no.

Beating a stock V8 with a modified turbo car is obviously hitting below the belt... that's more rediculous than comparing i4's to V8's. Remember... nomatter what your shit is, if you have more displacement, you'll be faster. I have yet to see a 7000hp i4... you'd have to be blowing 300psi.

a stock wrx can run 14.1 in the quarter mile. that's great, even by v8 standards, and the great thing about a smaller import style car is you don't need 7,000 hp as you would in a muscle car, because they are so much lighter. It's all about power to weight ratio. And everyone knows that racing isn't just about going straight, and you won't find better handling cars than a wrx, spec-v nissans, ect, ect.

Eh dude exactly the only "racing" I respect is F1 and all that euro shit. Obviously since that takes a long time and you want a quick measure of your car's brute power, you're not going to do a 5 hour long rally.



If I were to go import, I would not get Japanese... I would go German. Porsche and BMW all the way! Shitzel shitzel not chang wang...

What the hell are you talking about? You can never get enough power. And a 7000hp muscle car would blow away any 4 banger. Most 4 bangers have trouble getting over 500hp. You could weigh a tenth as much as the muscle car and you still wouldn't beat it. Like I said there's 4 second domestic pro drags out there. How often do you see a 4 banger win something in Le Mans?

Last time I checked it was a Porsche 944 Turbo sometime in the 80's that won just the GT class? Get real races are dominated by displacement... maybe not off road rallying but that's something else. Maneuverability and traction is the game there.


And a WRX weighs 3125lbs. So get real about the weight thing you guys are smoking too much shit. And it says right here the 1/4 mile for the turbo awd is 14.7. Wow it's a freaking turbo car that doesn't surprise me... what about the 12.3 1/4 mile out of a Z06? Or Low 13's in Z28's and trans ams? I want to see a stock 4 cylinder car do that... then we talk. AND STOP COMPARING TUNED HOOKED UP CARS TO STOCK V8'S THAT'S THE GHETTOEST EXCUSES IVE EVER READ.

Don't fucking try to tell me that more displacement will not make your car faster. That is some DUMB SHIT you guys need to go to school.

Originally posted by AlexB
And it says right here the 1/4 mile for the turbo awd is 14.7. Wow it's a freaking turbo car that doesn't surprise me...

ahem... wheres that coming from? i get that in my non turbo impreza.

published times for imprezas vary wildly, and dont often show the true potential. for example of the variance in times, SCC tested wrx 0-60 as 6.2, car and driver got 5.4 out of it.

If you're going to street race where maneuverability counts -- especially rally style, you should be sent to Siberia. I would pull out my 9mm and shoot you in the forehead if you're that stupid, immature, and putting people in danger.

Put your copy of Fast and the Furious down and cancel your order for that ghetto muffler off ebay. I'm not speaking to all of you guys out there but what the flying fuck are you wasting your money on... being immature and insecure? What the fuck do you have to prove out on the street? That your dick is bigger because your car is faster and you're stupid as fuck to endanger everyone around you? That's some dumbass shit. I see these wigger boys hooking up their slow piece of shit all day trying to look cool because they cant get any girls (mostly trashy bitches whose hobbies include collecting STDs) without their rust buckets and they dont have the slightest idea of how their car works... that makes me sick.

That is NOT dissing performance oriented cars like your WRX. Obviously that awd 4 banger can keep up with some V8's -- to some point. But I see faggots with 1998 Civic DX's with a system heavier than their car going around trying to act all hard. What a bunch of queerass posers. Especially the greasy ones in their doorags. Most of them have never worked on their car. They spend daddy's money at the shop and think their shit will smoke anything running 15's from their headers, muffler, and ebay bought CAI.

I used to want a GSX... turbo awd -- wow. Then I found out the faults they had -- weak center diff... 4k in it and i would still get low 13's on street equipment. That was still good enough for me but stressing out a little engine and getting it reliable just wasn't my thing. Sure you can make your i4 fast compared to some cars and for some people that may be enough. But you have to realize that without the displacement, you're going to plateau off somewhere in your modifying quest. Why can't you get your 1.6L Honda to push over a certain hp? Displacement... and you know that's the truth. And maybe it's just me but I want to go fast, I'll get something that's easy to make fast. Something that has a lot of parts readily available. Why would I want to spend more money and go slower? A slightly modified 5.0 with 2-3k will run 12's all day. Why can't a 4 cylinder engine run that NORMALLY ASPIRATED? No shit -- displacement. Stop comparing some i4's that'll beat V8's because no shit there's going to be a few exceptions that you can mix and match with different years of the cars and find out that the smaller engine beat the bigger one -- wow I'm amazed.

And to put it one way, turbos give you displacement. They flow more air so you can mix it with more gas, which a larger engine would do. It's all about how much air/fuel you flow... so obviously a larger engine WITH turbos would still flow more than a small engine with a turbo. Compare apples with apples not with oranges.

Ok alright here's a freaking quick idea... If you're running 14psi on a 2.0L engine means you're pumping in 1ATM (14psi) + the other 14psi from your turbo, and you can approximate that to about a 4L naturally aspirated engine. If you're pumping in 28psi, you can call that about a 6L engine. Screw how many cylinders it has because displacement (flow) is the name of the game. How much more can you pump? Who has the money to blow 28psi in any engine? Who would want to on the street with pump gas? That's where displacement comes in... let's say you take a 5.7L engine and pump in another 14psi... that would approximately double your stock hp right there as you will have 2 ATM not 1. So that 5.7L engine becomes as crazy as an 11.4L. Let's say you pump in the average 8psi. 8psi is about 60% of 14psi so you'll be getting 60% over your stock power.

Understand here? A 2L engine running at 2ATM will be as powerful as if it had 4L... and a 4L engine running at 2ATM would be as powerful as it if had 8L.

14psi=1atm

1atm+#atm you're force feeding=pressure going into the engine in atm(n)

n x stock hp = approximate power you'll get with turbo

IT"S ALL ABOUT FLOW and as you can see, the more displacement you have, the more you can flow.

Now who disagrees with the scientific shit above?

Originally posted by AlexB



And to put it one way, turbos give you displacement. They flow more air so you can mix it with more gas, which a larger engine would do. It's all about how much air/fuel you flow... so obviously a larger engine WITH turbos would still flow more than a small engine with a turbo. Compare apples with apples not with oranges.

Ok alright here's a freaking quick idea... If you're running 14psi on a 2.0L engine means you're pumping in 1ATM (14psi) + the other 14psi from your turbo, and you can approximate that to about a 4L naturally aspirated engine. If you're pumping in 28psi, you can call that about a 6L engine. Screw how many cylinders it has because displacement (flow) is the name of the game. How much more can you pump? Who has the money to blow 28psi in any engine? Who would want to on the street with pump gas? That's where displacement comes in... let's say you take a 5.7L engine and pump in another 14psi... that would approximately double your stock hp right there as you will have 2 ATM not 1. So that 5.7L engine becomes as crazy as an 11.4L. Let's say you pump in the average 8psi. 8psi is about 60% of 14psi so you'll be getting 60% over your stock power.

Understand here? A 2L engine running at 2ATM will be as powerful as if it had 4L... and a 4L engine running at 2ATM would be as powerful as it if had 8L.

14psi=1atm

1atm+#atm you're force feeding=pressure going into the engine in atm(n)

n x stock hp = approximate power you'll get with turbo

IT"S ALL ABOUT FLOW and as you can see, the more displacement you have, the more you can flow.

Now who disagrees with the scientific shit above?


That is really interesting way to put it. I have't thought of it that way but I think you might be right.

check it out this goes along with what youre saying...

http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/374944ricemag.jpg
http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/547617ricemag2.jpg

my favorite is the "road test: civic dx vs corvette z06 in a supercar shootout" :hehehe: :hehe:

I learned it in some book about supercharging. I thought it was interesting. I saw the same explanation on some turbo/supercharging sites. Of course it's not set in stone because there's a lot of variables involved, but if you calculate that crap closely and graph it, you will find some kind of pattern VERY CLOSE to that. As far as I know, there's 3 ways of getting flow... RPM, Dispacement, and forced induction. The cheapest obviously being displacement in most cases, followed by induction, followed by RPM. And obviously with the money we have, these things are going to plateau out. How much would it cost to have something rev up to 19,000RPM? Wouldn't it be easier to substitute that with more displacement? Depends also what you're looking for. If you have regulations like in F1 where you cant have something over a 3L engine? Or something like that... you'll try to rev up as high as you can and blow more into it in order to compensate.

Sorry if I seemed like I was import hatin or something but I'm just incredibly pissed at all the ghettoass posers-- who isnt? If your shit is fast enough for you, it's all good as long as you understand what makes shit fast and you're not a poser... those above 3 things is what you want. That's what the technology part that we were debating earlier helps you do... more flow and higher RPM. And as far as drivetrains go, awd is the shit, followed closely by a good RWD and then faroff as hell a FWD car that has thousands invested in wheels, tires, and a suspension.

one of my goals for my car is to have a 11,000 rpm redline, not for the fact of making it faster (which i already knew it would) but just cuz when some dumbass revs at me i can hit 10K or so and see their faces!

why the hell do riceboys rev everywhere they go? like theyre trying to prove something... u can be sitting at a stoplight with 5 cars in line in front of u and the dumb bastards will rev at u, then whats even worse is when they start flooring it for the 5-10 feet to the car in front like theyre racing or something. oh but my favorite is when theyre going the opposite direction and rev, like they expect u to pull a u turn just to race them (which i have done when theres no traffic just to teach the guy a lesson :devil: )

Dude (AlexB), your specs are way off. Who knows where you pulled times like that from. Here are the "real" specs of the cars.

S2000 from February 2002 Road & Track Mag.

Base price$=32,000
0-60= 5.5
1/4= [email protected]
skidpad=.90g
240 HP out of a 2.0 liter I-4 engine= 120 HP per liter, 9000 redline


Mustang GT from Road & Track Annual Road Test 2002

Price as tested$= 24,163
0-60= 6.1
1/4= [email protected]
skidpad=.84g
260 HP out of a 4.6 liter V-8 engine= 56.52 HP per liter, 5600 redline



If you don't believe me feel free to check, its pretty obvious which of these engines is more advanced, and which one of these cars will win in a race. :D

wtf the s2000 has a 9000rpm redline o_0
and whats the skidpad thing?

about extending revs, i think it would be mad to have a car that revs high like 10+, especially if its already loud, i would be pretty intimidated if i heard a v8 rev to 10 beside me at the lights.
but how much would this cost to do and how safe can it be, i would imagine extending the revs that much would make the car pretty stressed.

Yes, the s2000 does have a 9000 redline. I posted the skidpad of t he 2 cars to show that the S2000 costs more because not only is it faster and better looking than a mustang but it also kills it in handling.

how about the cars' weights?