Le Mans Contest - discussion

Tamiya used to do a Polycarbonate spray for the LM-GT car if you don't want to use the decals, they are a pain. I was a Le Mans in 96 and and saw the Skylines run. Great cars, but saddly up against stiffer competition.

small question, how many picture will we be able to post ?

Don't know what you want to build yet?

http://www.phoenix-c.or.jp/~mizutani/museum/dumans_museum.htm

hth,
Bill

Awesome post, Bill. That Honda NSX LM winked at me....

Edit: I thought S27 made a decal set for it, guess not....

That is a great link! Thanks a lot!
:wave: 1977 BMW 320i Art Car.

small question, how many picture will we be able to post ?

I am sure that you will be able to post enough pics in a progress thread for us to get a good look at your work. :smile:

Don't know what you want to build yet?

http://www.phoenix-c.or.jp/~mizutani/museum/dumans_museum.htm

hth,
Bill


Bill, what a great site, thanks a lot for the link!
The BMW Art Car from Alex Calder, the 3.5 CSL, is my favourite!
Are all those models in 1/24 scale? Sorry for my bad Japanese....

All the best
Marc

Don't know what you want to build yet?

http://www.phoenix-c.or.jp/~mizutani/museum/dumans_museum.htm

hth,
Bill

You've been faster than me! That's one of my favorites model sites... It would be nice if we had just half the number of different cars in this contest!

If I'd have found this kit, that could have been the one I would have presented:
http://www.phoenix-c.or.jp/~mizutani/museum/image/shun2003/a210_02.jpg (http://www.phoenix-c.or.jp/~mizutani/museum/image/shun2003/a210_02up.jpg)
Those Le Mans Alpine are so nice!!!
And it would be great if someone made a BMW art-car!!!!!!! Unforgetable!

Or a Jag D type.... If I could find a kit, I'd be on it in a flash!

For a Jag D-type there are a few options. Fisher Model and Pattern do a resin works longnose that is really nice. Although it has a few strange features like resin tyres. If you want full detail then it should be possible to convert the Revell XKSS to a customer shortnose. The XKSS was afterall pieced together from leftover D-Type chassis.

Yeah Vric each model will have a progress and completed thread so you can include as many pics as you want! If we have a "Peoples Choice" award then we'll have to make up a page with just one picture per entry but the links to more will be included :)

Awesome post, Bill. That Honda NSX LM winked at me....

Edit: I thought S27 made a decal set for it, guess not....


Willimo, there is a sheet still being produced by pattos, might turn out to be interesting? although it s the 95 car, beware of subtle differences link (http://http://members.optusnet.com.au/pattosplace/home.html)
http://www.pattosplace.com/decals/HondaNSX-Kenwood-LM95-24.JPG

ah well there s plenty of time left, let s see who can pop out the most ! :p :nono:

Olivier

I don't know if it's been asked yet but how many entries can we submit? I have a circuit board Sauber sitting on the shelf from 1988 Le mans, I might do that too.

I don't know if it's been asked yet but how many entries can we submit? I have a circuit board Sauber sitting on the shelf from 1988 Le mans, I might do that too.

as far as I know, as many as you want.

I already have 2 planned for this contest, maybe more will come

Cool, I just thought though, the circuit board cars were withdrawn from the race after a tyre blowout on the Mulsanne, I guess this car would not be allowed as it didn't race???

Willster the rules state the car has to have qualified or raced at Le Mans. So if the Saubers qualified in the circuitboard livery then it would be fine. You'd need to get the low drag wing and extra Le Mans decals though.
Hmm, a pair of Jag XJR-14s qualified (but didn't race) in 1991...

I'd be happy to provide my services as a judge. Furthermore I think judges will be the best way to determine the winner in a contest like this, voting doesn't always take into account all the work involved in a model.

BTW, I will be accepting bribes. My PayPal account is...:D ;)

Willster the rules state the car has to have qualified or raced at Le Mans. So if the Saubers qualified in the circuitboard livery then it would be fine. You'd need to get the low drag wing and extra Le Mans decals though.
Hmm, a pair of Jag XJR-14s qualified (but didn't race) in 1991...

Here's a stupid question...Since the ACO no longer forces cars to qualify (but rather are "invited" to the race...even though they must prove themselves and their teams capable of competing) do we include those cars/teams that were invited, but did not compete? (i.e. Spyker and a few others)?

Bill

I'm not the greatest builder on AF, especially when all the masters are going to participate on the contest :D, but even though, I might be in just for the fun of it.
Right now I have 3 projects going on, (1 for another contest due on September, actually) but my question is: is there a limit to when to start the progress thread? I know, the sooner, the better but since I have so many on the table....
If I do entry, I'll be building the 1968 n. 11 GT40 driven by Oliver-Muir. Already have the kit:
http://www.1999hobbysearch.com/dbimages/user/hobby/itbig/10016893.jpg
but i'm still waiting for the PE set. Speaking of wich, does anyone know where I can get the Renaissance seat rivets PE set? I tried everywhere, but can't seem to find it....

Here's a stupid question...Since the ACO no longer forces cars to qualify (but rather are "invited" to the race...even though they must prove themselves and their teams capable of competing) do we include those cars/teams that were invited, but did not compete? (i.e. Spyker and a few others)?

Bill

I would say that so long as the car set a time at an official qualifying session or practiced on the race weekend then it would be eligible. A bit difficult to model a car in Le Mans spec if it never turned up!

I would say that so long as the car set a time at an official qualifying session or practiced on the race weekend then it would be eligible. A bit difficult to model a car in Le Mans spec if it never turned up!

I agree, when I originally sugested cars that had qualified and or raced I actually ment those that had attended what used to be the pre-qualifying weekend in May, and is now just termed the Practise weekend. I don't think I;d have a problem with some one building a Spyker... pretty sure it started the race last year (or the year before?) anyway only to sufer from over heating problems.

I just wanted to let everyone know that Scale Race Cars is donating 3 photo etch details sets as awards. I will be adding the details to the contest rule thread as soon as possible. In the mean time take a minute and visit SRC site.....they have a little bit of everything,and have great customer service.
www.scaleracecars.com

Wow, David is generous !

I don't have the time or inclination to do a progress thread just so I can be included in a contest.
It's a pretty lame rule in my opinion, I won't be bothering with this one after all.

I don't have the time or inclination to do a progress thread just so I can be included in a contest.
It's a pretty lame rule in my opinion, I won't be bothering with this one after all.

I still have a kit or 2 that could be entered, but doing a progress thread? I'm not sure if I'm gonna commit to that. Nothing is worse then entering, starting the progress and then not be able to finish it. So I agree with Ray, this one's not for me.

I can understand and appreciate y'all's decisions on this, but one of the main reasons _I_ think a build diary was included was so that we all could learn from each other's techniques (or God forbid....mistakes).

I'm not entering this contest to win (FAR from it...and if I do, I will defer any winnings to the next person in line...unless its that $3.00 wire detail set! :iceslolan ), but rather to simply showcase my meager building skills and enjoy the skills of the other participants.

It only take 5 minutes to click a few pics and upload/post them. 5 minutes here or there isn't that important to me in the grand scheme of promoting our hobby.

Thanks for reading my diatribe!

Bill

I don't like progress thread. I never make any. but if a contest need it, I will do it.. It's not that hard. We are just lazy

It's not that hard. We are just lazy

Lazy? :disappoin

How about time? I don't have the time to sit and take photos of everything I do, I build models for the enjoyment of building, not to take photos of them.

how about taking one or two pics in the process of building it, surely it s not that time consuming?

Olivier

That's what most of us will do! We do not all have the photograph skills and cameras to take those wondefull clean & macro detailed pics some can post on this forum... :D
But this progress thread idea looks like a quite nice idea, as it permits to share infos and docs and pics... and add life to this growing sub-forum.

... You see, photos are the only way to share our models on the web. In a way, every model contest is at first a photo contest...
We all have to do with that.

Lazy? :disappoin

How about time? I don't have the time to sit and take photos of everything I do, I build models for the enjoyment of building, not to take photos of them.


Ahh common, you don't have to make perfect picture when you do progress. just leave the camera on the deak, take few picture sometime (will take what ? 20 seconds ?) then transfer them here (will take 5 minutes max)

If you have the time to write this post about how progress thread take too much time, then you have enough time to do one. :rolleyes: :loser:

What about leaving home at 07.00 am in the morning to go to work, not to come back until 08 or 09pm and only be able to do some decent modeling when you have a couple of days off, or in the winter when it's rainy outside. On top of that, 2 children to raise and a motorsportfan / modelclub to look after.

It's not only about the time it takes to post stuff here, but more importantly the time to be able to finish it. When you're only able to do 1 or 2 models a year, at this point, I'm not committing to anyhting.

Besides, why do I find myself justifying again? Sigh. :disappoin

My main reason for supporting progess threads is that from a Judges perspective it's very hard to judge a model from a completed photograph. You end up judging the qulity of the photo if you are not very careful, and that is very unfair to the modeller who either has a poor camera or isn't skilled at taking photos. This is a model contest, so I want to be as fair to everyone in it as I can... to my mind being able to see what goes into building a model will help me to do a better job as judge. Besides, no-one daid you had to post a photo at every stage.

And hell, I want to learn by what y'all are doing. Theres some top notch projects coming together out there!

Right now I am too busy to take photos and get any of my projects finished, this is the reason I have set some models aside which I was actually doing progress threads on.
While I understand it only takes minutes to snap photos and upload them, right now they are minutes I don't have available to myself, especially since I am one of those people that work on the theory 'if you're going to do something, do it correctly' (this includes taking photos).

In hindsight, if the deadline is as long as nearly a year away, perhaps I will be able to consider this later in the year?

It is a great shame some people feel strongly about the progress threads. The contest is still young there is still plenty of time to refine the rules, If many people want to do away with the progress threads or make them optional then that is okay by me. I like the idea for several reasons:

1. It allows us to share tips and techniques that all reading can benefit from.
2. When judging or voting it allows us to be well informed of what extras (including blood, sweat and tears!) the modeller incorporated, things that may not be apparent with just a few completed photos.
3. It gets this forum moving, we're only new so lots of activity will hopefully breed more interest and even more models being built.
4. It makes it pretty much impossible for anybody to enter a model they didn't build because we can see it being built.
5. It adds a bit of pressure to the builders to get something built on time :lol:

However we also want many entries and if progress threads are stopping that then maybe something else can be arranged. I know as well as anybody how little time is available for modelling sometimes. If worst comes to worse and great modellers like Ray and Huudo can't enter then we could use some more judges ;)

So what you said is you won't have 3 or 4 time 5 minutes to take picture in a full year ? If it's true, you really need to slow down a bit before you'r getting sick (Btw i'm not a studen, I don't have much free time either, I just take some time for me)

If you don't have time to take fews pictures, you don't have time to make a model to enter the contest. What is 20 minutes in a full year ? :uhoh:

In hindsight, if the deadline is as long as nearly a year away, perhaps I will be able to consider this later in the year?

That's the spirit :D there is no deadline for entries - I'm in no hurry to get started just yet! As I see it the progress and completed photos could even be posted together.

It is a great shame some people feel strongly about the progress threads. The contest is still young there is still plenty of time to refine the rules, If many people want to do away with the progress threads or make them optional then that is okay by me. I like the idea for several reasons:

1. It allows us to share tips and techniques that all reading can benefit from.
2. When judging or voting it allows us to be well informed of what extras (including blood, sweat and tears!) the modeller incorporated, things that may not be apparent with just a few completed photos.
3. It gets this forum moving, we're only new so lots of activity will hopefully breed more interest and even more models being built.
4. It makes it pretty much impossible for anybody to enter a model they didn't build because we can see it being built.
5. It adds a bit of pressure to the builders to get something built on time

I have to agree with all with the reasons Rally stated. There is no minimum number of photos need, as little as 3 could do it. 1 before....1 during construction...1 completed. Now I personally would like to see more,but really thats all thats needed.


We need more feedback from different members,before a final decision can be made, so let us hear what you all think.

Although, I do post progress whatever I build, the entire progress report from beginning to end sounds kinda tiresome to me, too. Maybe a few photos, highlighting the appealing areas of the kit might be sufficient. This isn't going to be a popularity contest, so the judges are supposed to be knowledgeable about each and every kits entered, and as long as the contestants describe what have been done to their models, I think that will be all right.

So what you said is you won't have 3 or 4 time 5 minutes to take picture in a full year ? If it's true, you really need to slow down a bit before you'r getting sick (Btw i'm not a studen, I don't have much free time either, I just take some time for me)

If you don't have time to take fews pictures, you don't have time to make a model to enter the contest. What is 20 minutes in a full year ? :uhoh:

Do you really read what people post here? :uhoh:

It's not about the 20 minutes in a year. It's 2 other projects on my plate (fe Huyndai Accent EVO3) for other people that I need to finish first. And "right now" I cannot commit to start a progress thread, simply because I will not start anything that I'm not able to finish in time. And I know I can only do 2 or 3max models a year, so there you go. I'll see around January if I can commit, how full the workload is going to be with travelling and such. Fair enough?

So what you said is you won't have 3 or 4 time 5 minutes to take picture in a full year ? If it's true, you really need to slow down a bit before you'r getting sick (Btw i'm not a studen, I don't have much free time either, I just take some time for me)

If you don't have time to take fews pictures, you don't have time to make a model to enter the contest. What is 20 minutes in a full year ? :uhoh:

Where's your entry for the contest then?
You're criticising everyone that doesn't favour the progress thread idea but I don't see your name amongst the list of entries?

BTW, did you read my previous post in this thread, the one Phil responded to?

Where's your entry for the contest then?



I'm not working on it yet. :smooch:

geezz.. if you don't want to make progress thread, this is your choice, just don't enter the contest. It seem so hard to take picture few time and upload them when you get the time (even if you don't post picture everyday, we have progress thread of many months old) The point is to show what you have done. snap a picture then upload it when you will have done the car if you want, but it's not that hard to take 1 or 2 pictures when you have done working on something..

Honestly, how hard is it to take a few pictures and upload them on to our computer. Takes five minutes at the most! What you dont realize is the progress is to help others see what you have done and learn from it. I know there are other projects you azre working on but you act like the time you used is going to waste.

I think we're making too much of the Progress thread requirement. I agree with Phil's points on why we have them, but I mean, it's still VERY early in the contest. Maybe down the line the anti-progress thread people can snap a few pics of their entry when they have a chance. No need to get on them because they can't now. Deadline is a long way off. I've only recently decided what to enter. Next step is ordering them. I probably won't even start a progress thread until late-August.

In fact, there's no real problem... Those who don't want or have time to post a progress thread can feel free to just post their finished masterpiece!
All the others that have time to share more, and are able to, can feel free to post as many pics as they want: the most important thing, I feel, is to have the best entries for this contest.

What's nice with the "progress" thread is:
-if you need help or pics for your model, it's a good way to ask.
-it's easier to have a large variety of subjects: I was wondering if I could do the BMW 320i or M1, but as the subject are already done by other modelers, I'll try to find something else for an hypothetical second entry... So I thank them for having posted their entry this soon: like this, I won't spend my money for nothing! And make another choice.

So, for those who don't feel they'll post progress pics, but already know what their entry will be, please: post! Even if you start building next year!
For those who don't know, well, no problem, we'll do with that: there's plenty of time!!!! :D

We still need Audi R8, Bentleys, Group C, Porsche 911 GT3 & 935 Moby Dick, Renault, Matra, Rondeau, Peugeot 905, and so many others! Maserati would be great too, but hard to find.

I'd consider a thread as a progress one only if the day of the first post (subject announced) differs from the day of the final pics post for - let's say - a week. Period. But I'm not the jury...

(sorry for the bad english syntax!)

Sorry, but rulz #4 is:
4. All entries must have a progress thread.

If people can enter without a progress thread, then you should change this rule !

Drama Drama Drama!

For those of you that didn't read it, please refer to this:


In hindsight, if the deadline is as long as nearly a year away, perhaps I will be able to consider this later in the year?

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2083900&postcount=154

To translate it better, right now I am too busy to partake in this but if the deadline is that far away, I will make a concerted effort to partake.

OK? :icon16:

Ray is exactly right. I see that people over here still don't read what you post. :sly: Stop making a deal out of posting pics. That's not the issue here. :nono: If I have time in March 2005 to start a Le Mans project and I feel like I will be able to finish it in time, I'll start a Progress thread. :smokin:

I´m watching this for a while now and I´m kinda impressed how much effort is given into this progress pictures issue.

In my opinion, it´s a little strange about not being able to make progress pictures while making as much effort in detailing the contest models as much as modelers can. Give me a break. In my eyes, if you don´t want to add some progress pictures, that´s fine, but stop fuzzing about it... you will need to take pictures of the finished model anyways and I bet y´all will give those important pics lots of effort (light, background, etc.). So while you at it, use your camera and give us some progress, we like to learn from all the participants.

And please guys, stop this discussion about the progress pics, it ain´t going nowhere and people wanting to enter maybe get a little disturbed about the community they´re going to contest against, when these people can´t even agree on whether progress pics are mandatory or not.

....

In my opinion, it´s a little strange about not being able to make progress pictures while making as much effort in detailing the contest models as much as modelers can. Give me a break. .....

:banghead:
Everyone who knows me, knows I am taking progress pics every since I have my digital camera and proceedings on all models I make can be followed on my website.

As with Ray, it's time limitations for modeling in general - and not the picture taking :rolleyes: - that is preventing us from committing to the contest right now.
So please, we can leave the discussion here and everyone who goes on about the pics, is proving that he or she is not reading the previous posts.

This is getting really funny. :biggrin:

So you guys ARE, or AREN'T going to enter and if so are you going to or NOT going to do build diaries and if so, why not? Y'all need to explain yourselves...;-)>

Bill

p.s. This is sarcasm!!!

Nobody needs to explain themselves this early :) Plenty of time left to enter or not. So should we relax the rules? Make it a "post-progress retrospective judging/information photographic showcase" rather than a protracted build diary? Do we need people to prenominate their entry or shall we just wait and see what turns up on the morning of the 2005 Le Mans 24 hours?

Another issue: Sennake has asked to enter his Ferrari 512 S that he built recently. Are we going to bounce this on the grounds it is not a "new" build? By the guidelines as we've discussed them it is not eligible - is that a good thing? I feel really bad having to turn him down.

Tell us what you think. Do we want to take a vote on the above or should the judges make the rules without consultation?

And finally please keep it civil, no flaming! :)

1. The issue about previously built models is pretty tough. On one hand, it would be great to have clearly the best works on the contest. And let´s face it, the Ferrari 512 S is just an exceptional piece of work. That´s a pro of having it in the contest.
On the other hand, I would like to have a contest, which only includes models built in regards of the rules of this contest. Otherwise, we will just have a big meeting of all the Le Mans cars ever built and shown on the forums. I´d like it better that only those models are eligible that were built after the contest started. But to keep the discussion down on this issue, I think we´ll just vote on this one!

2. I also like the idea of everybody posting, what they think they will build for the contest, so people can see, which great cars will be on the contest (excitement about the builds is guaranteed) and people know, which cars are already taken, so that they won´t give lot´s of effort to something that turns out to be build about 3 - 4 times. On the other hand again, you can´t forbid people to build a car already known to enter for sure!

Rallyraider, I have the same feeling than you about Sennake entry... but it wouldn't be fair with other competitors, and not in the spirit of this contest, I think.
And I feel really bad too!... Damn! Sorry for Sennake, but if there were a vote I'd choose not to accept this entry, as it is an "old" buid, which goes against the spirit of the contest: long deadline, so that everyone has time to build something new.

But I think we shouldn't vote. (fed up with arguments) . The judges just have to make the rules as they want... and sorry for democracy, but if we had to discuss everything there were no rule yet this day... Privateer made a choice, I think it's good. We agree or not, but it is as it is, and we'll do with it.
So, I let the judges choose, and whatever they'll do, I'll accept. Because making the rules belongs to them, and not to me, or the others, now.

And I hope I don't look unfriendly to Sennake, that's not what I want!... But I feel we just have to be friendly to everybody, that means being fair. And sometimes it's quite difficult! :(

P.S: I may be wrong! I just opened again the rules thread... There's no written rule that says the model has to be built during the contest time! That's what I had understood, and surely many of us, but it is not written (*). And "at the letter", there is no reason we should refuse Sennake entry.

So if I were a judge I would accept it! :D (I'm feeling better now!)

(example of mind turning in real life time! :lol: I kept everything written to explain my point of view)


(*: 1. It will limited to only cars that ran or qualified for LeMans.
2. Two categories, curbside and full detail.
3. Deadline is the start of the 2005 LeMans.
4. All entries must have a progress thread.
5. Judging will be by a panel of judges.
6. Prizes to be announced.
7. Multiple entries will be permitted )

True Labandabonnot, the announcement page does need to be updated. The restriction to new builds was discussed and decided within this thread but not yet reflected in the "rules". Unleash the lawyers!

Updated the rules in the Le Mans Comp Announcement thread. And wouldn't you know it - according to the rules as they stand, Sennake's Ferrari IS eligible! He started a progress thread on the SRC forum on the 11th of Jan this year (okay so it's not AF, but close enough). So sorry for the aggravation Guy - you have the honour of being our first completed entrant :D

Now y'all have something to beat :lol:

Nice! :D

Nobody needs to explain themselves this early :) Plenty of time left to enter or not. So should we relax the rules? Make it a "post-progress retrospective judging/information photographic showcase" rather than a protracted build diary? Do we need people to prenominate their entry or shall we just wait and see what turns up on the morning of the 2005 Le Mans 24 hours?


Hmm, that brings another question to mind. Is there a deadline for starting a progress thread? Or can we start a progress thread as late as May 2005, as long as the model is finished before the start of the race? As far as I can see there is no deadline of starting the progress thread, so I guess we can do that somewhere next year as well. I'm just thinking about a project I might/can do and in which category :naughty: , but it depends on the "official" closing date of the contest. ;)

Or maybe that was just your question... :uhoh: :biggrin:

Guy - you have the honour of being our first completed entrant :D


Thanks everybody, that really moves me :)