Le Mans Contest - discussion

I would like to volunteer my services as a judge/co-ordinator. I also think Bill would be an excellent judge.

Me Bill or Bil?

Either way I'm sure we'd both be honored.

Bill (2 "L"s...0 master modeler awards...)

Well....I was referring to Bill Attridge,but hey, why not the two of you. How many do we need? Could the 3 of us do it?

Judge should be determinated AFTER we know the rulz.

After all, the dead line is in 1 year, we don't even know if judge will have time to do this or if they will even be there

I would like to volunteer my services as a judge/co-ordinator. I also think Bill would be an excellent judge.

That sounds good to me PRIVATEER if you want to organise it. Do people want to have a judging panel or open to public votes? Done properly I think a judging panel will give a fairer result, but it means the judges won't be able to enter, which is a shame.

So is it a long termer? Next year? How about a comp for this year?

Well....I was referring to Bill Attridge,

Note that Mr Attridge is Bil with just a single "L" ;)

I agree...a judge panel is fair,and of course that woulkd disqualify me,no problem with that.

My apoligies to Mr Attridge.

I would absolutely hate it if PRIVATEER was unable to enter, afterall, it was his idea. Besides, his Lemans models are so impressive that it would be a shame not to see them in the contest.

:2cents:

I agree Alex, but if we are to have a judging panel then they need to know their stuff. The alternative is a public vote, not a bad thing either. Although sometimes it can throw up some strange results as in last year's AFMOTY.

I got the idea from RallyRaider. I think it would be a privelage to judge this.

I agree with ales & RallyRaider.
What about a judging panel + a people's favorite award where the judges can participate? :2cents:

Back to the rules, I'd want to stick to Le Man related cars myself, too. And I think it's okay to include the FIA sanctioned GT race cars, since they used to share the rules.
JGTC is tricky, but the rules are also based on the FIA-GT, and we know such example like R33 GT-R LM, so I think JGTC can be a part of it. I'm not sure about DTM, because it seems to belongs to the tourning car race, like BTCC and JTCC, which isn't considered Le Man cars.

Petit Le Man, definitely yes, but NASCAR, definitely nothing to do with Le Man. Also, many IMSA, Daytona and Sebling contestants also particiated in Le Mans.

Separating the scales may not be necessary, since models are judged by photos, right? So, the scale may not be so critical. However, I do want to separate curbside and detailed, because curbside are judged by the finish of the exterior, while the detailed model has additional check points in engine and detailing works, don't you think?

So, I'd say:
Cars: Le Mans, petit Le Mans and sports car race contestants running under the FIA-GT (FIA sports car) regurations or similar.
Deadline: GMT 0:00 am Saturday of Le Mans 2004.

Categories:
1) Curbside (any scale)
2) Detailed (any scale)

Now, my question is how to judge boxstock and modified. Box stock will certainly draw more casual modelers, so I kinda want to include this, but I'm not sure how.

Problem with Hirofkd rules as I see it is that they are too modern... NASCARs (or at least cars derived from them) raced several times at Le Mans in the 60s for instance. Plus modified DTM cars compete in other 24 hours races (like the Nurbergring 24) so in theory they could be part of the comp.

The FIA GT rules are not the same as those laid down by the ACO(how I wish they were)... roll hoop regulations are one of the most visible differences, but there are several others.

My feeling is that if we are going to call this a Le Mans comp, we should limit it to cars that have raced or pre-qualified at La Sarthe. Otherwise we call it a Sports and GT comp and widden the net a little more. Either way I'm cool with it...

I agree Lotus Man. If we are going to do call this thing a Le Mans comp and allow almost a year lead time then we should limit it to cars that have actually started the great race. Otherwise it is not a Le Mans comp is it? That's also why I suggested we hold a more broad comp this year so everybody can dust their sportscar models off and enter something more immediate. Nobody has commented on that idea.

As for categories I'm for as few as possible given that we may not attract a lot of entries. What is the point of having four or more different categories if we only get 8 models total entered?

It's a Le Mans contest, why not simply having the same classes than the race? 1 categorie for protos, 1 for GT. Whatever the scale or level of detail of the model...

It's a Le Mans contest, why not simply having the same classes than the race? 1 categorie for protos, 1 for GT. Whatever the scale or level of detail of the model...
The problem with having a prototype class is that there are hardly any prototype models you can buy. I think we should stick to GTP, GTS and historic Group C categories.

I agree Alex, but if we are to have a judging panel then they need to know their stuff. The alternative is a public vote, not a bad thing either. Although sometimes it can throw up some strange results as in last year's AFMOTY.


It's more about popularity than the quality of the model. Moderator always get higher vote for nothing

I agree with ales & RallyRaider.
What about a judging panel + a people's favorite award where the judges can participate? :2cents:

Nice idea.. Sure hte people choice award should be less than the judge, but it's a nice idea... a bit like BMOM contest

The problem with just having GTP, GTS and historic Group C categories is that it limits where cars would sit. What about a 1930s Bugatti or Talbot for instance? The categories have changed so often that would limit the choice too much. I vote for open top and closed cockpit. That covers most everything that has raced theer in the last 80 odd years...

The problem with having a prototype class is that there are hardly any prototype models you can buy. I think we should stick to GTP, GTS and historic Group C categories.

Sorry, I've not expressed myself well: I meant 2 cat: 1 for the car created just for the race (protos, group C etc...), and 1 for the road car based, usualy called GT.

Other ideas can be found:

2 votes: jury and a special price of the public by voting.
2 categories: curbside and detailed.
2 categories: box-stock, and modified.
Other categories: best detailing, best livery (originality+accuracy+rendering)

... Or just one categorie: the cars that raced Le Mans, period.
That means:
- a "winner price", voted by jury. :biggrin:
+ a special "pole position price" for the public votes' favorite. :iceslolan
+ a "best lap price" for the most original car :icon16: (choosen by both jury and public vote; that means 2 votes in 1 for the public) - in order to encourage modelers to build something else than a (for example) Tamiya Shell Porsche 962, which I love, believe me, and may be happy to see one, but you'll admit it's not a very original subject...

... Sounds "Motorsport", no?... ;)

In case of someone winning both "pole position" and "best lap" prices, we'd call him Jean Alesi... (Le Mans version: Henri Pescarolo )
In case of someone winning the "winner" price + one of the two others, we'd call him Mikka Hakkinen... (Le Mans version: Jacky Ickx )
And in case the winner of each price would be the same, we'd call him Michaël Schumacher! :lol: (Le Mans version: Tom Kristensen )

( Le Mans version fit the subject better, but are less funny... :rolleyes: )

Another aspect that should be discussed is the number of entries per person. I'd like to try and enter at least two :)

I'll go with one per class (what ever the classes turn out to be). Just let me know in plenty of time because the lead time to get hold of 1:43 kits can be quite high...

We should try to get some sponsor. Look like it will be a giid and long contest with quite few entry.

I would also like to enter more than one car

All voting and judging to be done in 24 hrs. LOL :D

Ok guy's....Are we gonna discuss it or do it. If no one objects, I'll take the bull by the horns,and get things started. Here it is....
1. It will limited to only cars that ran or qualified for LeMans.
2. Two categories, curbside and full detail.
3. Deadline is the start of the 2005 LeMans.
4. All entries must have a progress thread.
5. Judging will be by a panel of judges.
6. Prizes to be announced.
7. Multiple entries will be permitted


I am willing to do this,but I will need help. I will need someone with a very good knowledge of LeMans history,and is willing to be fair and impartial.I can't do it by myself guy's. I will contact some manufactures/distributors, maybe we can get some prizes donated. I'll build a car for the contest,but it will not be eligable for judging,or prizes.
Do we need an official thread to kick it off?

Hows that? Anybody willing to help me out,just let me know.

Cool. I'm happy to judge if you need help...

I was going to enter but with the work load I have coming in I don't know if I'll have time to do a full on show stopper build.

Can we enter 2 car ? 1 in each categories ?

Wow, for a moment I thought, there wouldn´t be any agreement at all, but I´m quite satisfied with the laid out rules and I will definately try to have something finished for the contest. With the help of the automotiveforums.com...let´s rock and roll!

yes multiple enties will be allowed. the rules have been edited. Does we need a thread to announce the start?

I think the rules are sounding great! I think I'm in - I think I'm going to get a new 787 and start over... weee! I have some input, too, I think we should be able to submit more than one model, and even multiple in one category, but have a no-sweep rule. For example, if someone puts in 2 models, the only get one placed position, and the next builder gets the next place. If that makes and sense. The local club's contest only lets one builder max out at 1st and 2nd no matter how many models they have in the category, but we should limit it to one placing car since we'll have so few entries.

And I would love it if we had a new motorsport contest each year... LeMans, F1, Rally, JGTC... LeMans again? I adore this new sub forum!

Good! I think a thread may be created to list the entries, link them to their in-progress threads, give the rules again, add news and answer questions like:
"I plan to present a resin 1/24 917K, with driver's door opened and Pedro Rodriguez on his seat... Which categorie may I enter?..." :D

http://www.mafma.com/images/lmm124058_1.jpg

Here's a link to a website that can help for referencing cars that have raced Le Mans.

http://racingsportscars.com/

Pics like this, for example:
Lister Coupe #BHL126 – Jaguar V12 3781cc N/A
Driven by: Peter Sargent (GB)/Peter Lumsden (GB)
Result: did not finish (Engine) - 29 laps
Grid: 25th(4:13.4)
http://racingsportscars.com/photo/1963/TN_Le_Mans-1963-06-16-017.jpg (http://racingsportscars.com/photo/1963/Le_Mans-1963-06-16-017.jpg)
(url: http://racingsportscars.com/photo/Le_Mans-1963-06-16-photo.html)

Make a new thread with the rules PRIVATEER and I'll sticky it and unsticky this one. Given the contest is such a long way off some tweaking of the rules can still happen IMHO.

I believe that we'd be better off to have the categories divided along the lines of OOB, enhanced and modified, like Zeljko does for the Rallycar BMOM. That way it gives many different entry points depending on skill and experience.

It's more about popularity than the quality of the model. Moderator always get higher vote for nothing

Do you really think mods get more votes? I agree public votes can often turn into a popularity contest but most people don't much care for the mods!

Maybe we could add a public vote, just for fun if not prizes. It would allow the judges who selflessly cannot compete in the main comp some action.

:iagree:

++ mods are the best, that's all! And that's why they're mods! And that's why they get more votes!(bootlicker again!) :lol:

bootlicker as you said hehe

7. Multiple entries will be permitted

is it 1 in each category ? or as many as we want ?

More than 1 entry in each category will be permitted.

When are you going to be elected mod, dear Vric?*... :D

(my tongue hurts!) :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

(*: you're popular enough to be one!)

More than 1 entry in each category will be permitted.

Yahoo ! now I know what I will make for the upcomming year :lol:


When are you going to be elected mod, dear Vric?*... :D

(my tongue hurts!) :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

(*: you're popular enough to be one!)


Nah.. Newbee don't like me and it's fine like that :uhoh: :lol:

When are you going to be elected mod, dear Vric?*... :D

(*: you're popular enough to be one!)

Talk about a backhanded compliment!!..LOL

Bill

Can it be on personal web pages?

Does the model have to be started after the start date, or can an already-in-progress model be entered?

Does the model have to be started after the start date, or can an already-in-progress model be entered?

I think it should be okay if the model has already been started, although only recently, like in the current year.

Can it be on personal web pages?

That should be fine but for the sake of uniformity start a progress thread on the forum linking to it. That way we'll be kept updated of your progress.

The above are just my opinions, will have to confirm with the other judges before making anything official.

There should be a rule on cars already in progress like Willimo asked. For example all cars must have been in progress from like May 1st or something to limit the amount of user entries...

My :2cents:

We don't want to limit the amount of user entries, we'd like lots! However I understand what you mean, Stephen. I reckon that provided there is already a progress thread on AF about it then it is fine to enter. As I said above the model has to have been started this year so post 1 Jan 2004. Privateer has agreed so that is now the rule!

I guess there is no way to stop somebody taking a few fake in-progress shots and making a pseudo thread for an already built model. But I can’t imagine anybody is going to benefit from such an elaborate hoax, so good luck if you wanna try!

I don't think we want to get too pedantic about everything, this is supposed to be fun :) The ultimate winner isn't the main point of it all IMHO. Rather to get us inspired and focused on building, I need more of that sometimes!

Often with these competitions somebody gets insecure and kicks up a stink at some point. Hopefully in this forum we have a great, mature, talented and mutually respectful community and can avoid anybody getting upset or feeling excluded.

This should be a fun contest... I'm just looking forward to seeing what people choose to build. I'm hoping that there will be some unusual builds, and we won't just get 956/962s and TS020s!

I might build somthing (not to enter of course!)thats a little different, just gotta see how my time is.

Just a thought, if you are going to have judges, then why not have the members who aren't going to be taking part in the contest? Hint Hint;)

This should be a fun contest... I'm just looking forward to seeing what people choose to build. I'm hoping that there will be some unusual builds, and we won't just get 956/962s and TS020s!
.


agreed with lotus man, but hey, I think we ll have no problem with members coming up with twisted and original ideas here!

I m atleast trying!

Olivier

Now where could we possibly find such a person Chris? ;)

Now where could we possibly find such a person Chris? ;)

Find someone whos is good modeler and that he will not participae in contest. You sould know many good modelers.:smile:

Where can I see the rules?

Yeah Chris and Zeljko, the deadline is a long way off so I guess the judges could change. They'll really have to know their Le Mans stuff as well as general modelling! I hope you guys don't mind but I moved your posts to this thread and locked the main one. We'll definitely keep you guys in mind, although I don't know how it might be percieved if one of the judges stood down to enter the full fledged contest? We're hoping to have a "People's Choice" award that the judges will still be eligible for.

Inservible - look at the "Important" threads stickied at the top of the forum page. At the moment there aren't too many rules, we will refine them as needed.

I'm hoping that there will be some unusual builds, and we won't just get 956/962s and TS020s!


But I like 956s and 962s :D They come in so many variatons of colour and shape...!

It would be good if every entry, in progress thread, have a picture or two of the real car, from the race, so it can be compared to a model (for us who are not 100% in Le mans, I mean I know the cars but all of the different sponsors and logos, it makes your head spin). So judgeing by the picture you can better judge the model, at least I think so.

But I like 956s and 962s :D They come in so many variatons of colour and shape...!

Yes! But what about the colors and shapes of Ferrari 250 GTO, Cobras, Jaguar type E Cunningham*, Renault Alpine, 917 K & LM, Nissan & Toyotas, Dome, Peugeot 905, Jaguar/Mazda xjr-14, Rondeau, 935 Moby Dick, BMW M1, Corvettes C5-R, 911 GT3, McLaren F1, Skylines LM, Ferrari 360 GT LM... Just talking about a few cars I have in mind that can be found as resin or plastic models, or created from an existing plastic model.

(*: if I find a way to replicate the wheels and tires of this one, I may try to start a scratchbuild work from the gunze 1/24 kit of the XKE - I own both curbside and metal engine detailed version...
http://racingsportscars.com/photo/1963/TN_Le_Mans-1963-06-16-014.jpg (http://racingsportscars.com/photo/1963/Le_Mans-1963-06-16-014.jpg)
That would be a nice 8 month work!... :D )

Sure the Motorsorts reference archive is a nice idea that could be very usefull for this contest! Thanks for having created it! :thumbsup:



(... and I promise I stop my stupid meaningless jokes... :rolleyes:...)

That is a great idea Sasa. Maybe include it in the completed thread as well. Or could we incorporate it when we put the final comp entries page together?
One downside could be that the configurations of the cars can change over the course of qualifying and the race. So pictures many vary from the point in time chosen for the model.

I wasn't dissing Porsches two greatest sportscars... it's just that for me one of the freatest things about Le Mans is the variety of cars that have raced there over the years. Be good to see that kind of variety in the competition.

Yes! But what about the colors and shapes of Ferrari 250 GTO, Cobras, Jaguar type E Cunningham*, Renault Alpine, 917 K & LM, Nissan & Toyotas, Dome, Peugeot 905, Jaguar/Mazda xjr-14, Rondeau, 935 Moby Dick, BMW M1, Corvettes C5-R, 911 GT3, McLaren F1, Skylines LM, Ferrari 360 GT LM... Just talking about a few cars I have in mind that can be found as resin or plastic models, or created from an existing plastic model.

Exactly, so many cars, so little time!

(*: if I find a way to replicate the wheels and tires of this one, I may try to start a scratchbuild work from the gunze 1/24 kit of the XKE - I own both curbside and metal engine detailed version...

I've considered that car too. Fred Cady makes a decal sheet for it :)

Sure the Motorsorts reference archive is a nice idea that could be very usefull for this contest! Thanks for having created it! :thumbsup:


And thanks to all who have contributed links :D Hopefully there is a long, long way to go, so keep scouring the 'net for those reference jems!

I wasn't dissing Porsches two greatest sportscars... it's just that for me one of the freatest things about Le Mans is the variety of cars that have raced there over the years. Be good to see that kind of variety in the competition.

I understood Lotus_Man. What are the chances we get a Skyline or two ;) Not that that would be a bad thing either...

What are the chances we get a Skyline or two ;) Not that that would be a bad thing either...

The above crossed my mind since there is already a full view GT-One. :naughty: The only problem with NISMO GT-R LM are the decals. :uhoh: