Timing Off on Windstar, Where are Timing Marks?

Hey, y'all!

I replaced spark plugs today, and the timing is still off. It's not so loud, but the fuel odor and such is still there.

My friend suggested that there is a mini-distributor on the left side of the end, near the serpentine belt, and you can twist a screw that is connects to to change it, but you would have have a timing mark there to know how to set it back. It is still making the popping sound.

So, his other suggestion is that the timing chain itself has hopped off of the gear it attaches to, one of them.

So, my question is,
1. Where is the timing mark to check or adjust it?
2. How could I tell if it is the timing chain in the engine or not?
3. What other ways exist to adjust the timing?

Could I just replace some sensors? Such as:
1. Cam sensor
2. Crank sensor
3. pcm?

Any ideas? Please see my other video about what it is doing.

I thought perhaps since the fuel intake had been spiked with anti-freeze, I could just run something to degrease the engine, but he explained if it was that, the valve compression tests would have shown it.

Hey, y'all!

I replaced spark plugs today, and the timing is still off. It's not so loud, but the fuel odor and such is still there.

My friend suggested that there is a mini-distributor on the left side of the end, near the serpentine belt, and you can twist a screw that is connects to to change it, but you would have have a timing mark there to know how to set it back. It is still making the popping sound.

So, his other suggestion is that the timing chain itself has hopped off of the gear it attaches to, one of them.

So, my question is,
1. Where is the timing mark to check or adjust it?
2. How could I tell if it is the timing chain in the engine or not?
3. What other ways exist to adjust the timing?

Could I just replace some sensors? Such as:
1. Cam sensor
2. Crank sensor
3. pcm?

Any ideas? Please see my other video about what it is doing.

I thought perhaps since the fuel intake had been spiked with anti-freeze, I could just run something to degrease the engine, but he explained if it was that, the valve compression tests would have shown it.

He is more than likely referring to the cam shaft synconizer.

How do you know timing is off??? Have you checked with a timing lite?

He is more than likely referring to the cam shaft synconizer.

How do you know timing is off??? Have you checked with a timing lite?

No, but the engine keeps shaking, making a popping noise, and there is a fuel odor too right off.

After a minute or so, if I do not rev it, the engine might start to die, and the battery light comes on. In the past, when this happened it would sometimes give a CEL which I suspected was due to it almost dying, and I would put in a fuel additive like B-12, which really worked well, and then reset the codes via disconnecting the battery.

It still makes that knocking sound. Originally I swear I heard a ticking for the last month or more, and it sounded like I could hear each and every cylinder fire in order.

Tick-tick-tick....

BTW, what my friend said was the distributor was actually the Crankshaft positioning sensor.

Would replacing that, the coil pack, and the camshaft sensor fix it?

The engine is vibrating/shaking, makes the popping sound loudly, and it picks up when I rev it. Could I have thrown off the crankshaft? Does it have a dampener thing too, that might need adjustment?

As far as I know, the only way to adjust the timing is through the computer itself. there is no way to do it manually. Because messing with the screw on that cam sensor as you could make things worse, I would leave it alone.

As far as I know, the only way to adjust the timing is through the computer itself. there is no way to do it manually. Because messing with the screw on that cam sensor as you could make things worse.

Okay, but he said if I could find the timing mark, he would do it tomorrow after work.

Is it there, or any way to find it?

This video has my car's engine, and the noise it is making.

http://youtu.be/01T1R2Aecdg

Does that help?

Just before this, a muffler hanger broke. In the past with a plymouth van it actually shook the car, then caused it to sway, and it sounded like the engine was going to blow. I replaced it, both of them, and it stopped.

This time, it made louder noises, replaced passenger side, but stopped when this new problem started. Driver's was never replaced. Also, back in October, I replaced the battery. Autzone charged me too much for it, but Adam Lopez refused my calls, they switched the time left with the time on, and charged me double for it. Had a 7 year warranty.

Any of that help?

BTW, thanks for the advice everyone has given me here. It seems my 2000 Windstar 3.0l problem is common, but with different reasons each time.

So, junkyard, spring for camshaft & crankshaft sensor, coil pack to test, and maybe a pcm? I think the key can be reset with a pcm by switching it on and off 5-6 times. I did that one time before when my Honey lost a key, and the fob broke at the same time roughly.

My friend's comment was "...this is why I won't buy a Ford". It also has the intermittent light flickering-we've actually had people leave us notes about it on our car before. Every Ford has that, in my experience.

That sound on the engine tapping could be several things, but it is running smooth apart from the tapping itself. I would first remove the cowl, then remove the intake manifold and check the inside upper part to see if it came loose and is tapping against the outside upper part. then take it from there. If the timing chain would've skipped the engine would be running worse.

P.S. You should keep all your posts within the one thread you started as all these issues are related to that thread you started, it is better for all the other members to get info. concerning your vehicle.

That sound on the engine tapping could be several things, but it is running smooth apart from the tapping itself. I would first remove the cowl, then remove the intake manifold and check the inside upper part to see if it came loose and is tapping against the outside upper part. then take it from there. If the timing chain would've skipped the engine would be running worse.

P.S. You should keep all your posts within the one thread you started as all these issues are related to that thread you started, it is better for all the other members to get info. concerning your vehicle.

Okay, I did that basically because I thot it was proper site etiquette to re-post and not keep old ones alive.

I got this video from a prior person's posting, he said his engine was blown

http://decclic.qc.ca/usagers/028595/Documents/engine_blown.avi

from

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=958880

I checked the coil pack, looked fine. I did not disconnect anything, nor take it off. Could it be this? Would it cause the both of us to have the same issue? My started is fine, it runs, what is up?

Okay, I did that basically because I thot it was proper site etiquette to re-post and not keep old ones alive.

I got this video from a prior person's posting, he said his engine was blown

http://decclic.qc.ca/usagers/028595/Documents/engine_blown.avi

from

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=958880

I checked the coil pack, looked fine. I did not disconnect anything, nor take it off. Could it be this? Would it cause the both of us to have the same issue? My started is fine, it runs, what is up?

You know dude, thru this whole process there have been numerous suggestions made, you seem to keep on wanting ideas but refuse to do what has already been suggested.

Have you removed the serpentine belt and run the enginee for a little to see if noise quits???? Nothing has been indicated this was done.

Have you checked the harmonic balancer for any defects in the rubber part or if it wobbles???

Have you removed either of the valve covers or upper plenium to check things out???

Which engine is it the 3.8 or the 3.0??? To me it looks like a 3.8.

...... It seems my 2000 Windstar 3.0l problem is common,..............
.
"Uncommon" I would think ... as the 3.0 was last sold in 1999, IIRC.

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"Uncommon" I would think ... as the 3.0 was last sold in 1999, IIRC.

Mine is a 2000, it made up 1/3rd of the vans sold that year.

You know dude, thru this whole process there have been numerous suggestions made, you seem to keep on wanting ideas but refuse to do what has already been suggested.

which one did I miss? I replaced the spark plugs, checked the coil pack as well as I could, and did a valve compression test which was perfect.

Have you removed the serpentine belt and run the enginee for a little to see if noise quits???? Nothing has been indicated this was done.

I didn't know I was supposed to do that. I'll try that today, after the temp gets over 32 here.

Have you checked the harmonic balancer for any defects in the rubber part or if it wobbles???

I checked the pulleys, and I have replaced hose belts in the past. There are no visible cracks, and my friend, who helped me before with this, said they were in good shape-he tried getting them to move, wobble, and checked the tension, they seemed fine. Is there another way to do it?

Have you removed either of the valve covers or upper plenium to check things out???

Which engine is it the 3.8 or the 3.0??? To me it looks like a 3.8.

No, because the noise is not coming from the plenum, I covered that in a past post.

I didn't take off the valve cover, as all the valves were just fine, because it passed the valve compression test, which I was under the impression it would not result well if the valves were bad.

Car is a 3.0l v6.

Just to add, as I read back 13 pages of Windstar stuff last nite, the car takes a few seconds of pressing on the gas pedal to get it to go. I also have to rev it, and just before it stumbles usually the battery lite turns on.

From what I can see, this would indicate the coil pack stinks, right?

There are no cracks in it, but I've read hat it's bad on Fords, can still be bad even if it reads all ohms are going thru. Even if it seems to be running, and there are no visible cracks, and it's just loping and surging or whatever it's called-it takes a few seconds for gas to get thru when the gas pedal is depressed, but it still "lopes", meaning it rocks the van forward and backward, and jumps from 600 rpm to 800 sometimes, others stays the same, when it does that.

That would be the coil pack, right, since it is acting like it's missing, the fuel odor, and the valves have high or perfect compression? That means despite new plugs, and good valves, it's messing up by not allowing one of the plugs to fire? Reliably or with enough punch?

It sounds like Ford put in a junky coil pack made out of epoxy. As a kid, epoxy was what I used to repair plastic, and inject other plastic things at work as an adult. It can be problematic even if you can't see it, right? I read one post where a guy had perfect ohms coming back, no cracks visible, and replaced it and it then ran fine. On youtube, that is pretty common too .I can't tell ,despite better than average hearing, from the sound if it is right.

Am I right to try repairing or replacing it?

The only way to know is to replace it.
It seems that the coil pack on the 1999 and newer is more common in failure than on the 1998 and older.
A small crack that you cannot even see can create a break in the insulation between things to keep the high voltage from arcing.
That is why it can check out perfect and still fail......as the failure is caused by the high voltage arcing (jumping from 1 location to another).
The arc is supposed to happen at the spark plug.
When it happens in the coil pack instead......the spark plug in the cylinder does not spark.....causing the misfire.

The only way to know is to replace it.
It seems that the coil pack on the 1999 and newer is more common in failure than on the 1998 and older.
A small crack that you cannot even see can create a break in the insulation between things to keep the high voltage from arcing.
That is why it can check out perfect and still fail......as the failure is caused by the high voltage arcing (jumping from 1 location to another).
The arc is supposed to happen at the spark plug.
When it happens in the coil pack instead......the spark plug in the cylinder does not spark.....causing the misfire.

I did that, and replaced all of the spark plug wires, which despite special ordering, I had to have an autozone guy help me figure out what other wires would actually work-the ones listed by them were waaaay too short.

The #6 and #4 cells on the coil pack, and the ends of the wires that plugged into them, were covered with white corrosion. It looked like ash inside of the top of the coil pack.

But, after all of this, nothing has changed, except the engine is even weaker than before. I have considered trying to pour kerosene straight into the crankcase, letting it run for a few minutes, and then changing the oil. Right now, I am doing the oil change ,will put in CD2 after. Will take it to a mechanic sometime this coming week. I have so much to do, and cannot do it stranded at a relative's house.

Still the same sound, still way too weak.

Anyone know of something that will clean valve lifters?

The valve compression test was fine .the other options were the cp sensor, and the camshaft sensor being replaced.

I have spoken to other people in town who confirmed for me that if anti-freeze is used in the fuel intake, something like this will end up happening. Anecdotal stories on the internet stated the same.

What a waste.

Next time I will not assume that anyone but a mechanic can fix it.

The oil was really, really sticky, like maple syrup, It looked awful, too.

Crankshaft sensor link: 3.0 engine
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search.oap?keyword=crankshaft+position%21s%21angle +sensor&year=2000&make=Ford&model=Windstar&vi=1362833

Camshaft sensor and snycronizer:
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search.oap?keyword=camshaft+position+sensor&year=2000&make=Ford&model=Windstar&vi=1362833

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Result.aspx?Ntt=camshaft+syncronizer&Ntk=Keyword&Nty=1&Dn=0&D=camshaft+syncronizer&Dk=1&Dp=3&N=0

Video of cam sensor and syncronizer:
http://realfixesrealfast.com/realfixesrealfast.com/Codes/Pages/P0340_Cam_Sensor.html

What is the vin # of vehicle?

A camshaft sensor/syncronizer can also have a ticking sound to it if going bad.

Mine is a 2000, it made up 1/3rd of the vans sold that year.
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Yeah, you're right ... and I knew that! Comes with age. Something got dropped in '99 ... 15" wheels maybe?

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Yeah, you're right ... and I knew that! Comes with age. Something got dropped in '99 ... 15" wheels maybe?

Reliable electronic parts? LOL!

Well, you guys have aright to heckle me.

today, I tried starting it up, and nothing. I re-connected the #5 spark plug to the new coil pack-and the noise came back. However, it did not fail, or screw up.

My friend went over every part of the top of th engine ,and the bottom, with his stethescope. He said the noise was coming fro mthe plenum, the rod and camshaft were fine. When I revved it, the noise started in the bottom left, then went up to the top right.

I put my hand on the plenum, and the right half was so hot it hurt my hand. I took off all 12 bolts, and opened it up. #2, #5, and #6 ports egr?, were blocked, with #6 having a turd like thing coming out. My friend pointed to #1, it was the only one mostly clean. He also said the car was misfiring, and on the first start up with new oil in it, it pushed out a whole bunch of water, white-gray-blue smoke, and pulsed.

So, am I right, with only one cylinder/egr port clean, and black burned sugar over everything ,it has to be that, right? It was the only one totally working right?

In addition, all of the isolator bolts are very pretty colored, wet, and look okay IMHO. My opinion is humble cuz I obviously make very bad decisions when it comes to the engine.

Should I replace them or just clean out the intake ports?

I'm guessing this means the anti-freeze burned up, and was pushed out the intake holes?

What do I use to clean out the intake or egr ports? Gasoline, or brake cleaner? They are crusty. WD-40?

He also said the #1 in back was the problem, it was the only clean one, well mostly clean. What do I do now? Whole plenum cleaner thing? Set myself on fire? Find the people who designed the engine, and have a log talk?

BTW, before I started it up, I'd changed the oil, and put in some B-12 chemtool, and also the engine cleaning oil additive, CD-2.

What to do?

I went to ABQ, U Pull and U pay, and pulled two parts off of the 1999 that was supposed to have the right ones. It mus have been a mislabelled car, as one was wrong. The CMP I picked up was for a 97.

I replaced the crank sensor, and had to fight over 2-3 days with Autozone to give me the right one, as the one they gave me had the notch that fits it into the engine reversed and the magnet sensor way too short. I replaced the cmp and cp finally ,and it is still making the same noise. If I didn't have to keep begging people to do the right thing, this would have been done weeks ago.

Autzone had the sensors listed at 68 and 77 respectively, and then one dropped to 30 the day before I hit ABQ. That still was100$ total. In ABQ, I had them check, and instead of both being ten even, they were 15 and 18 at the junk yard, and they were wrong, too.

So, I have the car making the noise, but running okay, and losing power. I was going to do it in order, and did not get to the valve cover. My friend still insists it's not the rod and camshaft, and tomorrow I may just take it to the mechanic. I'm sick of trying.

Did I mention the prices were 24 and 19 for the sensors in ABQ? I had to wrangle to get one that looked like the one I had, which does not at all resemble the one listed on the links above?

I also posted a few other posts here, but none are listed, either. Wow.

so, tomorrow, PCV and egr check, then drive it up and have it checked. I'll post whatever it is here, so people :jerking:can get it.

What a waste of time. All because Ralph martinez is a cop informant, and my landlord is covering for him, and is crazy and a drug addict. I still think it could be the fuel injectors being clogged up.

Can anyone tell me what happens if you use too much of fuel additives?

BTW, I did find the timing marks and instructions for BTDC in a Chilton's thru my library. They are on top of the harmonic balancer and can be adjusted using a timing gun, just as in pre-coil pack cars.

If anyone needs it, let me know thru email, and I'll scan and send it to you.

I would not worry about to much fuel additive.

The noise may not be from a rod or camshaft, but whatn your friend needs to understand is that there are lifters that are pushed upwards and lowered as the camshaft rotates which in turn moves the push rod upward against the rocker arm which in turn opens and cloes each valve. Since the plenium is getting hot the exhaust valve may not being opened at all and the exhaust is being pushed into intake when the intake valve opens. A collasped lifter, broken or loose rocker arm and or a bent or broken pushrod can cause this and also create the noise.

Remove the valve covers and check for any inoperal valves. If you remove the cowl there should be room to remove back valve cover

I would think a compotent mechanic will check the oil pressure and remove the valve covers to inspect valve train as their first diagnoses.

Did you ever check the codes???? Does your friend have a code reader???

Diagnostics need to be done before throwing money and parts at it.

If you have a socket and wrench set you should be able to remove valve covers without a problem.

Keep us posted.

Most of the folks here have had problems with their 3.8's. There aren't many posters here with the 3.0, and with problems. The 3.0 has always been considered "bullet proof".

I think that is why you are not getting much response with definite suggestions.

I would not worry about to much fuel additive.

The noise may not be from a rod or camshaft, but whatn your friend needs to understand is that there are lifters that are pushed upwards and lowered as the camshaft rotates which in turn moves the push rod upward against the rocker arm which in turn opens and cloes each valve. Since the plenium is getting hot the exhaust valve may not being opened at all and the exhaust is being pushed into intake when the intake valve opens. A collasped lifter, broken or loose rocker arm and or a bent or broken pushrod can cause this and also create the noise.

Remove the valve covers and check for any inoperal valves. If you remove the cowl there should be room to remove back valve cover

I would think a compotent mechanic will check the oil pressure and remove the valve covers to inspect valve train as their first diagnoses.

Did you ever check the codes???? Does your friend have a code reader???

Diagnostics need to be done before throwing money and parts at it.

If you have a socket and wrench set you should be able to remove valve covers without a problem.

Keep us posted.

i'll try the valve cover, as I said i would. Yes he has a obd2 reader, and nothing comes up at all.

I was worried about twenty-five mile round trip to get the new gaskets.

As a GOOD point of reference, visit www.rockauto.com and look up your vehicle and make sure to select 3.0L engine.
THEN, look up your parts.
MANY parts have pictures that show you what the parts look like.
They also have a selection for each part that shows you what years the part is for.
I have ordered from them and been happy with them, but my reason for directing you there is that I recommend that you go their FIRST...before you go to a salvage yard so that you know what the part looks like before they present a part to you.

2000 was the last year for the 3.0L Vulcan Engine in the Windstar.
Do not confuse the Vulcan 3.0L (pushrod) with the Duratec 3.0L, which is a different engine, (dual overhead cam)

A history of the Ford 3.0L Vulcan Engine...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Vulcan_V6_engine

Still searching.....

In about 1995, when they put the Crankshaft Position Sensor in, they REMOVED the timing pointer (what you use to line up the timing to the timing marks).

There were issues with the water pump impeller (the part inside that moves the water) rusting and getting to the point that they no longer move the water.
This would happen in cases where the coolant was not changed when it should be.......brown/rust colored coolant.

I found a Utube video of a tapping sound on the 3.0L Vulcan in a Sable.
The person said that their mechanic told them that it was the #3 cylinder lifter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtT4grgLhL4

Here is what the 3.0L sounds like with a defective bushing on the camshaft position sensor syncro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuLcG8YBzzU

As I mentioned in another thread.....if you decide to remove a valve cover and take a look, START with the front one.
The reason is that the rear one is a LOT more work, so why do that only to find out that the problem was under the front one?
Also,if the front is fine, you will know what you are doing before you have to lean over for all that time to work on the rear one.
For valve cover gaskets, I recommend the Felpro brand's "permaDry" line.

I found a Utube video of a tapping sound on the 3.0L Vulcan in a Sable.
The person said that their mechanic told them that it was the #3 cylinder lifter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtT4grgLhL4

Here is what the 3.0L sounds like with a defective bushing on the camshaft position sensor syncro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuLcG8YBzzU

As I mentioned in another thread.....if you decide to remove a valve cover and take a look, START with the front one.
The reason is that the rear one is a LOT more work, so why do that only to find out that the problem was under the front one?
Also,if the front is fine, you will know what you are doing before you have to lean over for all that time to work on the rear one.
For valve cover gaskets, I recommend the Felpro brand's "permaDry" line.

I tried it. First time, I had disconnected the 5 and 6 spark plugs, it started, without noise, then the battery got weak. But no noise. Stopped, reconnected the spark plug wires, and it made the noise, the same noise.

The valves all moved, I made some videos of it, if you want I can post them, but really they all work, and they look plenty fine.

So a lifter? How much does that cost, on average, to fix?

When I tried to start up today, the battery was dead, I'm recharging it now. The hazard lites cam on when I tried to start up. I had never seen that before.

But, I sincerely have decided to give up. I am lost. My friend told me, to detach the screw for the camshaft sensor, and rotate it to see if it varies the timing at all. I woudl think, given the gear on it, it would cause it to skip and then grind up the gear and then I would not be able to take it to the shop.

what do you think?

As for bullet-proof-I have read enough about these cars, to know they are typical Fords, and all fords have horrible electronic issues. The 1 cylinder, #1, is heating up again by the plenum.

I have to say, I don't think there are any cars worth buying sold in the USA anymore. Every car seems to have problems. Toyotas are notorious along with Honda, for not honoring their warranties to make sure they can claim they have not had warranty returns. My mother had a cv joint go on a Honda 4 wheeler under 10k miles, and the kids knew a girl who had a fuel pump go on a toyota, and toyota came close to telling her off, they wanted $900 for it (8k miles, Santa Fe Autopark), he did it in auto shop for the pump cost at autozone, it was 189$.

They all suck, just in different ways.

Thanks for the links and info. I'll try them, tho I honestly do not have any hope.

I found a Utube video of a tapping sound on the 3.0L Vulcan in a Sable.
The person said that their mechanic told them that it was the #3 cylinder lifter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtT4grgLhL4

Here is what the 3.0L sounds like with a defective bushing on the camshaft position sensor syncro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuLcG8YBzzU



Mine sounds like the lifter. I suspected that.

Nothing like the camshaft-you can hear the pulley system on that.

How do they dx the lifter case-with a computer, or just opening it up?

I tried it. First time, I had disconnected the 5 and 6 spark plugs, it started, without noise, then the battery got weak. But no noise. Stopped, reconnected the spark plug wires, and it made the noise, the same noise.

The valves all moved, I made some videos of it, if you want I can post them, but really they all work, and they look plenty fine.

So a lifter? How much does that cost, on average, to fix?

When I tried to start up today, the battery was dead, I'm recharging it now. The hazard lites cam on when I tried to start up. I had never seen that before.

But, I sincerely have decided to give up. I am lost. My friend told me, to detach the screw for the camshaft sensor, and rotate it to see if it varies the timing at all. I woudl think, given the gear on it, it would cause it to skip and then grind up the gear and then I would not be able to take it to the shop.

what do you think?

As for bullet-proof-I have read enough about these cars, to know they are typical Fords, and all fords have horrible electronic issues. The 1 cylinder, #1, is heating up again by the plenum.

I have to say, I don't think there are any cars worth buying sold in the USA anymore. Every car seems to have problems. Toyotas are notorious along with Honda, for not honoring their warranties to make sure they can claim they have not had warranty returns. My mother had a cv joint go on a Honda 4 wheeler under 10k miles, and the kids knew a girl who had a fuel pump go on a toyota, and toyota came close to telling her off, they wanted $900 for it (8k miles, Santa Fe Autopark), he did it in auto shop for the pump cost at autozone, it was 189$.

They all suck, just in different ways.

Thanks for the links and info. I'll try them, tho I honestly do not have any hope.


Please post the videos.

Yu took off both valve covers correct????

How are you not showing a DTC code?

I suspect that they opened it up to verify.
I have no experience with that myself, but unless there is a serious enough issue to direct them to a specific cylinder (unlikely unless the valve was not working at all), they would be guessing until they removed a valve cover and determined somehow that there was extra "play" in one of the push rods, rocker arm, etc
Again, I'm not a mechanic, so I can only guess.

Just found this while searching the web, sounds of a rod knock and valve train noise. They are from a BMW. Just for a claarification between the 2 noises. You can read the info first or just scroll down the page to the video's.

http://www.youfixcars.com/engine-noise-diagnosis.html

Again, in terms of the original question.....you have 1 part of the timing marks.
You have the scale, but NO POINTER.
The pointer was part of the "front cover" and was removed when they went to the crankshaft position indicator.
So, I am sure that there is a timing specification someplace, but it is which mark on the scale lines up with the non-present pointer.
I don't know if there was a work-around come up with someone......which mark lines up to what.....but the new "waisted spark system" kind of throws a monkey wrench into the process.

The normal way to line it up was to use a timing light that has a lead that you clamp over the #1 cylinder spark plug wire....and you aimed the timing light down over the pointer.....and the specification was so many degree's relative to "top dead center" which was indicated by which hash mark was lined up with the pointer when the #1 spark plug fires.
The line that indicates Top Dead Center is lined up with the pointer when the #1 cylinder is up as close to the spark plug as it travels.

Remember that the new ignition system now has the #1 cylinder flash 2 times.......1 is "waisted" so only 1 flash would be the real spark that you want.
This is because the coil pack has 3 coils, 2 plugs for each coil, so you get 2 times the number of sparks, 1 causes ignition, the other sparks during a time that there is no fuel in the cylinder......and the other plug on that coil is causing ignition.

Please post the videos.

Yu took off both valve covers correct????

no, just the front one.

How are you not showing a DTC code?

I do not know. Weeks before his happened, I did. It did every time the engine gas level was low ,then would go back to normal and clear when I added the seafoam or B-12 chemtool, and sometimes whenb I jsut lef the battery off and added the stuff. It did not come one when the chemtool was i nth engine and fresh. I also only had 6-7 gallons in with each fill up, and added 1/2-1 can to it. It worked perfectly after that, then stopped acting up at all, then made he sound it does now going up hill returning home.

I watched as my friend attached the obd2 sensor thing, and he also was amazed.

Again, in terms of the original question.....you have 1 part of the timing marks.
You have the scale, but NO POINTER.
The pointer was part of the "front cover" and was removed when they went to the crankshaft position indicator.
So, I am sure that there is a timing specification someplace, but it is which mark on the scale lines up with the non-present pointer.
I don't know if there was a work-around come up with someone......which mark lines up to what.....but the new "waisted spark system" kind of throws a monkey wrench into the process.

The normal way to line it up was to use a timing light that has a lead that you clamp over the #1 cylinder spark plug wire....and you aimed the timing light down over the pointer.....and the specification was so many degree's relative to "top dead center" which was indicated by which hash mark was lined up with the pointer when the #1 spark plug fires.
The line that indicates Top Dead Center is lined up with the pointer when the #1 cylinder is up as close to the spark plug as it travels.

Remember that the new ignition system now has the #1 cylinder flash 2 times.......1 is "waisted" so only 1 flash would be the real spark that you want.
This is because the coil pack has 3 coils, 2 plugs for each coil, so you get 2 times the number of sparks, 1 causes ignition, the other sparks during a time that there is no fuel in the cylinder......and the other plug on that coil is causing ignition.

Okay, this is totally true. The Chilton book online has the above procedure listed, but previous comments agree with him considering the "wasted spark" which is totally bizarre to me. Is that why the car is smelling of fuel at first, it is expected due to the wasted spark, not an engine problem?

It does say in Chilton's the marks are still there over the harmonic balancer, next to the crank sensor, but I could not find them.

Please post the videos.

Yu took off both valve covers correct????

I could not get one of it without the 5 and 6 spark plug wires off. I did have two others, and combined them. It's the front or left bank sensor.

http://youtu.be/LIBOVLYLBMw

I could not get one of it without the 5 and 6 spark plug wires off. I did have two others, and combined them. It's the front or left bank sensor.

http://youtu.be/LIBOVLYLBMw

It is hard to tell for sure but it looks like there is very little oil or no oil ( no or very little oil pressure) at the rockerarms , you should see oil running off the rocker arms as it it running.

It is hard to tell for sure but it looks like there is very little oil or no oil ( no or very little oil pressure) at the rockerarms , you should see oil running off the rocker arms as it it running.

It filled the bottom part after a little bit. I had to wipe the dirt off, and then charge the battery again, as ti ran down during the video.

It did fill it almost to overflowing, after a few minutes. Is this too little? I am guessing a bent rocker or rod arm.

The 1 cylinder, #1, is heating up the plenum again. Bent rod? Has my friend been lying to me all this time?

Crankshaft sensor link: 3.0 engine
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search.oap?keyword=crankshaft+position%21s%21angle +sensor&year=2000&make=Ford&model=Windstar&vi=1362833

Camshaft sensor and snycronizer:
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search.oap?keyword=camshaft+position+sensor&year=2000&make=Ford&model=Windstar&vi=1362833

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Result.aspx?Ntt=camshaft+syncronizer&Ntk=Keyword&Nty=1&Dn=0&D=camshaft+syncronizer&Dk=1&Dp=3&N=0

Video of cam sensor and syncronizer:
http://realfixesrealfast.com/realfixesrealfast.com/Codes/Pages/P0340_Cam_Sensor.html

What is the vin # of vehicle?

A camshaft sensor/syncronizer can also have a ticking sound to it if going bad.


Isn't the ticking usually the fuel injectors?

It filled the bottom part after a little bit. I had to wipe the dirt off, and then charge the battery again, as ti ran down during the video.

It did fill it almost to overflowing, after a few minutes. Is this too little? I am guessing a bent rocker or rod arm.

The 1 cylinder, #1, is heating up the plenum again. Bent rod? Has my friend been lying to me all this time?


When you are referring to cylinder location are you saying that number 1 cylinder is the FIRST CYLINDER ON THE LEFT SIDE CLOSEST TO THE FIREWALL?

The cylinder location are:

Closest to firewall, passenger side to driver side: 1-2-3
Radiator side: Passenger side to driver side: 4-5-6

If you are referring to #1 cylinder as the one by the firewall you need to remove the valve cover and check valve train. Yes it could be a faulty rocker arm or a bent push rod, but you will not know for sure until you remove the rear valve cover and inspect.

The oil amount you described by needing to wipe clean because of flowing out of the head should be adequate oil flow.

Was the battery fully charged when you started the video's? If you are disconnecting battery all the time this will erase any codes.

NO, THE INJECTORS WILL NOT CREATE A TICKING SOUND.

Have you listened to the video's in post number 35 of this thread???????

Have you taken the serpentine belt off yet to make sure the noise is not coming from the alternator or any compotents that the beelt operates???

When you are referring to cylinder location are you saying that number 1 cylinder is the FIRST CYLINDER ON THE LEFT SIDE CLOSEST TO THE FIREWALL?

Yes!



If you are referring to #1 cylinder as the one by the firewall you need to remove the valve cover and check valve train. Yes it could be a faulty rocker arm or a bent push rod, but you will not know for sure until you remove the rear valve cover and inspect.

Okay, this weekend then. I have to take off the plenum to do it, it's 3 pm here already.


The oil amount you described by needing to wipe clean because of flowing out of the head should be adequate oil flow.

Excellent.


Was the battery fully charged when you started the video's? If you are disconnecting battery all the time this will erase any codes.

I re-started it up, and let it run for a while, did not cut out, but no codes either. This seems to be A common complaint with this issue. Are you suggesting I run it again, try to get it to code?


NO, THE INJECTORS WILL NOT CREATE A TICKING SOUND.

Have you listened to the video's in post number 35 of this thread???????

Have you taken the serpentine belt off yet to make sure the noise is not coming from the alternator or any compotents that the beelt operates???


1. Okay, several posts stated it could in the past, if they are gunked. That's what I wonder about ,and so did the explanation for the issue linked to in 35. That's why I wondered.

2. Yes, it sounded like the lifter one. But louder. My friend says all the noise is in the upper part of the engine, when he used the stethescope.

3. No, as my friend said it was okay, and I am not sure how to do it, without destroying it, and have to make sure I have a ride to get a replacement if I do. Could you tell me if there is a way to do it without having to cut thru it with a knife? Last Time I replaced it, I moved some pulley wheel, I think, and cut it.

Belt routing diagram link:

http://serpentinebeltdiagrams.com/1999-2003-ford-windstar/

No need to run engine to see if you get code.

NO NEED TO CUT THE SERPENTINE BELT. You are not inspecting the condition of the belt but when the belt is removed do it still make the noise, if not then you need to find the source of the noise. You can run the engine for a 1 minute or so without hurting anything. )The water pump, power steering pump, and alternator will not be functioning. Also watch the harmonic balancer to see if it wobbles when belt is removed.

http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0996b43f/80/21/ba/9e/small/0996b43f8021ba9e.jpg
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/images/repair_guide/enlarge_icon.gifhttp://www.autozone.com/autozone/images/repair_guide/enlarge_tooltip.gif (http://www.autozone.com/autozone/repairinfo/repairguide/repaiguideOverlay.jsp?src=http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0996b43f/80/21/ba/9e/medium/0996b43f8021ba9e.&imageType=gif&imageName=Place a wrench on the drive belt tensioner bolt and rotate the assembly clockwise to relieve belt tension)
Fig. Place a wrench on the drive belt tensioner bolt and rotate the assembly clockwise to relieve belt tension


Using a 15mm wrench attached to the drive belt tensioner pulley, rotate the tensioner clockwise to release the tension. Remove the drive belt from the pulley. When installing the new drive belt, ensure that the drive belt is routed correctly and note the position of the indicator mark on the tensioner.

http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0996b43f/80/21/ba/85/small/0996b43f8021ba85.jpg
I copied the above off of autozone.com, repair info.All you need to do is register as it is free.


To remove the rear valve cover:

Remove the cowl vent panel.
Remove the throttle body.
Loosen the lower EGR valve to exhaust manifold tube retaining nut and rotate the tube out of the way.
Remove the PCV valve (if replacing the valve cover).
Remove the fuel charging wiring harness from the valve cover studs. Move the fuel charging wiring out of the way.
NOTE
Note the bolt and stud locations prior to removing the valve cover.




Loosen the valve cover retaining bolts and studs.
Carefully slide a sharp, thin bladed knife between the cylinder head and valve cover gasket at the step where the intake manifold mates to the cylinder head.
NOTE
Cut only the silicone sealer and not the integral valve cover gasket.



Remove the valve cover making sure the silicone sealer does not pull the valve cover gasket from the valve cover.
Remove the valve cover gasket by pulling it from its channel.
To install:
Clean all gasket mating surfaces thoroughly.
Lubricate all bolt and stud threads prior to installation.
Install new valve cover gasket and align fastener holes.
NOTE
Check valve cover gasket for correct installation. New valve cover gasket will lay flat to the valve cover in both the channel and fastener areas. If the valve cover gasket is installed incorrectly, oil leakage will occur.



Install valve cover gasket to each fastener by securing fastener head with a nut driver or socket. Seat fastener against valve cover and at the same time, roll gasket around fastener collar. If installed correctly, all fasteners will be secured by the gasket and will not fall out.
Apply a bead of silicone rubber sealer at the cylinder head to intake manifold step.
NOTE
Use a straight down approach when installing valve cover. Any adjustment after sealer contact can roll gasket from the channel in the valve cover.



Position valve cover on cylinder head and tighten bolts in sequence to 96-120 inch lbs. (10-14 Nm).

http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0996b43f/80/21/ba/f0/small/0996b43f8021baf0.jpg
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/images/repair_guide/enlarge_icon.gifhttp://www.autozone.com/autozone/images/repair_guide/enlarge_tooltip.gif (http://www.autozone.com/autozone/repairinfo/repairguide/repaiguideOverlay.jsp?src=http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0996b43f/80/21/ba/f0/medium/0996b43f8021baf0.&imageType=gif&imageName=Valve cover tightening sequence-3.0L engine)
Fig. Valve cover tightening sequence-3.0L engine

Again info in the autozone.com repair manual.

Belt routing diagram link:

http://serpentinebeltdiagrams.com/1999-2003-ford-windstar/

No need to run engine to see if you get code.

Okay, just to update.

I did pour Seafoam into the crankcase, and then ran it. It idled fine, and the noise went down a little. Then we took it for a ride, went 3-4 miles, it almost quit at a stop sign, and did stall pulling out. It restarted just fine.

It still makes the noise, but as the engine gets over 20, it stops making it so loudly, a big drop in sound. After the near stall, it still makes it, but when it is running slowly.

As a check, I took off the IAC, and it does not have any gunk in it, but is blackened, so I will spray it with WD-40 per the leckemby site. Or perhaps just brake cleaner.

So, given everything, what do you guys think? Stuck something or other?

As for the belt-I thot there was a way to try it without having to take it off. I don't know about the name, but doesn't one wheel retract, or something?

Belt routing diagram link:


Position valve cover on cylinder head and tighten bolts in sequence to 96-120 inch lbs. (10-14 Nm).

http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0996b43f/80/21/ba/f0/small/0996b43f8021baf0.jpg
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/images/repair_guide/enlarge_icon.gifhttp://www.autozone.com/autozone/images/repair_guide/enlarge_tooltip.gif (http://www.autozone.com/autozone/repairinfo/repairguide/repaiguideOverlay.jsp?src=http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0996b43f/80/21/ba/f0/medium/0996b43f8021baf0.&imageType=gif&imageName=Valve%20cover%20tightening%20sequence-3.0L%20engine)
Fig. Valve cover tightening sequence-3.0L engine

Again info in the autozone.com repair manual.

Do you mean the Haynes manual they sell?

Is the valve cover the front one I filmed earlier? I was under the impression it is to have the bolts tightened to 5-7 pounds, not 96-120. That would cause it to fail, wouldn't it?

This information is on the Autozone website under the repair information.
You may have to "register" on the site, but the repair information is FREE.
He is telling you to remove the belt to help narrow down the source of the problem.
If the sound goes away when you run the engine without the belt, then the problem would be something in the line that the belt is in.
DO NOT drive the vehicle without the belt....you only want to start & run the engine for a short time.
With the belt removed, the water pump is not running, so the engine will overheat if you run it for any length of time......However the short run that is less than a minute (you should know in 15 seconds if the sound is there).

If the sound is not significantly gone with the belt removed, then you know that it is not something driven by the belt.

NOTE, there WILL be some tapping sound due to the fuel injectors and lifters....you are trying to determine the LOUD sound>
I am stressing this because it is easy to think that the normal sounds are something that they are not.

Sound sources that I had on my '96 were the idler pulley and the pulley on the tensioner.
The bearings slowly went.
Mine did not make the same sound that you have.....but if the sound is in this line, it is something to check (and less money than a alternator , water pump or power steering pump.

Again, the belt removal is a easy way to eliminate some things from the list of suspects under the hood.

The fuel injectors do make a clicking sound, but nothing near what I heard in your video.
The clicking sound is because the injector has a plunger inside.....and a electrical coil in the injector body.
When current flows through the coil inside the injector, a magnetic field is created which pulls the plunger up.....opening the valve that lets fuel flow through.
Then when the current stops flowing, a spring inside the injector pushes the plunger back down, stopping the fuel flow.
The current flow is only for a super short time......
The plunger moving up and down against the limits creates a small ticking sound.

The current through the coil is driven by the PCM (computer).
When the ignition is ON, there is always 5 volts to 1 of the terminals on the fuel injector electrical connection.
A transistor inside the PCM turns on to create a momentary path to ground to the other terminal on the fuel injector when the PCM wants to squirt fuel into the cylinder.

Waisted Spark.
This is not causing a problem.......seems a strange way to do things but it is very common in modern engines.
For the 6 cylinder engine, there are 3 coils.
Each coil has a spark plug on each end........so each coil fires 2 cylinders.
Each coil has a primary winding which is low voltage.
The primary windings are driven by the PCM.
When current flows through the primary of one of the coils.....the secondary generates a high voltage.
Now....this is where it gets interesting.
The voltage generated in the secondary winding is measured from 1 terminal to the other.......and 1 end is a very high POSITIVE voltage, the other is a very high NEGATIVE voltage.......if you were to measure each end with 1 meter lead on the coil lead and the other meter lead on GROUND.
NOTE, do NOT try to measure this......I'm only explaining how waisted spark systems work.

So, when you energize the primary (input) winding on one of the coils, the secondary (output) winding generates a high voltage at both of its terminals....which is where the spark plug wires connect.
1 spark plug fires with a POSITIVE voltage (relative to ground)
The other spark plug fires with a NEGATIVE voltage (relative to ground).

Why is this important?
The spark plug fires because of the high voltage between the center electrode and the ground tab.
Since 1 side of the motor has POSITIVE voltage causing the spark and the other side of the motor has NEGATIVE voltage causing the spark......the wear on the spark plug will be different on each side of the motor.
1 side of the motor will wear the center electrode faster.
The other side of the motor will wear the ground tab faster.
THIS is why you should use double platinum spark plugs in this vehicle.
Double Platinum means that the center electrode AND the ground tab have the platinum enhancement. (not multiple ground tabs like the Bosch +2 and +4 plugs do).

As far as the air/fuel mixture inside the cylinder, a spark is a spark.....it does not matter what voltage caused it.
What does become critical is that the spark plugs wear somewhat evenly between sides of the engine.
A small variation really won't make a big difference, but a big variation (spark gap getting a LOT biger on 1 side as compared to the other) then problems can develop.

On the older windstars, like my '96.
The FACTORY spark plugs on 1 side of the engine had the platinum enhancment on only the ground tab (you can see it on new plugs)......and the other side of the engine had the platinum enhancement on only the center electrode.
There was a EE on 1 side and some other letters on the other side (EF?).
HOWEVER, replacement plugs that you get at the dealer or aftermarket have the platinum enhancement on both.....the factory plugs were used ONLY at the factory.....I would guess a cost savings.

Do you mean the Haynes manual they sell?

Is the valve cover the front one I filmed earlier? I was under the impression it is to have the bolts tightened to 5-7 pounds, not 96-120. That would cause it to fail, wouldn't it?

You need to be careful as some bolts are specified to FOOT POUNDS and some to INCH POUNDS. BIG DIFFERENCE.

The specification refers to both valve covers.

Like wiswind mentioned autozone.com is their website where you can look up parts for your vehicle and it also has a repair info section that has the online version of a haynes/cchlton manual. Need to register but free.

Okay, just to update.

I did pour Seafoam into the crankcase, and then ran it. It idled fine, and the noise went down a little. Then we took it for a ride, went 3-4 miles, it almost quit at a stop sign, and did stall pulling out. It restarted just fine.

It still makes the noise, but as the engine gets over 20, it stops making it so loudly, a big drop in sound. After the near stall, it still makes it, but when it is running slowly.

As a check, I took off the IAC, and it does not have any gunk in it, but is blackened, so I will spray it with WD-40 per the leckemby site. Or perhaps just brake cleaner.

So, given everything, what do you guys think? Stuck something or other?

As for the belt-I thot there was a way to try it without having to take it off. I don't know about the name, but doesn't one wheel retract, or something?

Personaly I would try to find the problem, trying to find a easy simple fix is not going to happen. You need to remove the serpentine belt (belt tensioner is the name I believe you are thinking of) and do like suggested (easy to remove, just watch how the belt is routed-5 minutes at most), if same noise exists take the cowl off and remove the rear valve cover and inspect the valve train. By not doing these steps to find the problem is just prolonging getting your vehicle in trustworthy condition to drive and use.

Cowl removal video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtPZYA8QWB8

Serpentine belt removal, this is on a turaus but the same as on a Windstar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEk6KicluHI

Personaly I would try to find the problem, trying to find a easy simple fix is not going to happen. You need to remove the serpentine belt (belt tensioner is the name I believe you are thinking of) and do like suggested (easy to remove, just watch how the belt is routed-5 minutes at most), if same noise exists take the cowl off and remove the rear valve cover and inspect the valve train. By not doing these steps to find the problem is just prolonging getting your vehicle in trustworthy condition to drive and use.

I took it off. Friend had a shop body lifter, and he took off he idle pulley tensioner, it's different fro mthe one i nthe drawing. Mine is a 2000 3.0. I think that was for a 1999.

It did not make a difference at all. I watched the harmonic balancer, and it wavered, but in time with the engine. It is, my friend stated, seemingly backfiring thru the intake.

I also cleaned out the iac, I did it back i n january, it was fine, too.

My other friend wh owas helping ,borrowed my book, the haynes manual, and hasn't shown up. He was eating lunch with his wife, ho works for the lab, so don't knwo what happened at all. I was thinking of checking the air intake system ,but do not have the book, so right now I cannot.

I did ride it this morning, it stalled on a turn, every time it slows down. It's fine just idling ,no problems at all. What causes it to stall when it slows down?

I also bought a gallon of kerosene. How much do I need to clean it out? anyone know the procedure?

Well, there goes my eyesight, I have a anacephagic migraine. Gonna run home, try to clear it. I had perfect eysgiht, but maybe somethign happened and the migraine came. Dang.

anyway, no luck wih the belt.

QUOTE:"I also bought a gallon of kerosene. How much do I need to clean it out? anyone know the procedure?"

What are you referring to clean it out??? THe intake system???? If so what are you planning on cleaning in the intake???

OK you removed the serpentine belt and no change, It still has the noise correct?????

Qoute:" I watched the harmonic balancer, and it wavered, but in time with the engine. It is, my friend stated, seemingly backfiring thru the intake"

That makes me believe that a exhaust valve is not opening causing the exhaust to escape thru the intake manifold when the intake valve opens. ( lose or broken parts causing the noise)
YOU NEED TO REMOVE THE REAR VALVE COVER AND CHECK THE VALVE TRAIN.

Watch the video on cowl removal I posted in post #52, That way you can get to the rear valve cover without removing intake so you can run the engine once removed.

How was the serpentine belt tensioner different from posted picture?? Are you sure that is the original engine???

Regarding you cleaning the IAC: Cleaning the Idle Air valve and it moves does not mean the solenoid on the valve is directing the valve to move, could be faulty solenoid or wire connector corroded,.

Go to autozone.com and register for the free repair manual (Haynes).

Sorry about the headache, they can be awful!

I finally got around to watching the videos. Are these your videos? About that engine: Sorry, but that ain't no 3.0!

I'm afraid to ask what high-tech excercise is planned for the kerosene.

The engine in the video may have other problems but I'm pretty sure the spark cables are not hooked up properly.

How do you know the land lord spiked the engine? Did you see him do it? And he used anti-freeze? .... that's pretty clever. My land lord would probably use mop water or pee .... but anti-freeze, why did he go to that trouble and expense? Perhaps he's smarter than most land lords. Have you asked him to have a look at the engine? Probably help you with those spark cables.

http://autorepair.about.com/library/firing_orders/bl-fo-3132.htm

http://autorepair.about.com/library/firing_orders/bl-fo-3133.htm

Links for firing orders for 3.0 & 3.8.

Thanks 12Ounce for also noting that this is not a 3.0 engine in the videos Seales posted. I commented on that way back when first video posted but no one else seemed to notice so I let it go. That is why he has had trouble getting the correct parts even tho the vin # has the U code.

firing orders [/B]for 3.0 & 3.8.

Thanks 12Ounce for also noting that this is not a 3.0 engine in the videos Seales posted. I commented on that way back when first video posted but no one else seemed to notice so I let it go. That is why he has had trouble getting the correct parts even tho the vin # has the U code.......

Yep, those are good links. More important than the firing order is the layout of the spark cables .... showing which ignition pack terminal goes to what spark plug .... very important. Both engines have the same layout, BTW!
(There is one small error that appears on both graphics ... an arrow shows "to front of vehicle" ... wrong! ... should be "front of engine"! ....at least for the front wheel drive Winny.)

How do you know the engine code was "U"? Some other posting? Some other forum? ... I can't keep up!!

If the code was "U" .... what happened in this car's past? Was the engine changed? Was the tranny changed? How were the different algorithms in the two different PCM's managed? It would take NASA plus Detroit to manage all that! ....Or someone was very lucky!

Yep, those are good links. More important than the firing order is the layout of the spark cables .... showing which ignition pack terminal goes to what spark plug .... very important. Both engines have the same layout, BTW!
(There is one small error that appears on both graphics ... an arrow shows "to front of vehicle" ... wrong! ... should be "front of engine"! ....at least for the front wheel drive Winny.)

How do you know the engine code was "U"? Some other posting? Some other forum? ... I can't keep up!!

If the code was "U" .... what happened in this car's past? Was the engine changed? Was the tranny changed? How were the different algorithms in the two different PCM's managed? It would take NASA plus Detroit to manage all that! ....Or someone was very lucky!

Searles has multiple threads on the vehicle issue, makes it very hard to follow, here is the thread I asked aabout the code, post #28.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1076318&page=2


Here is the question and answer post.:shakehead


Quote:
Originally Posted by tempfixit http://staticaf.com/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=6964662#post6964662)
http://youtu.be/01T1R2Aecdg (http://youtu.be/01T1R2Aecdg)

Searles, what is the 8th character in the vin number? (u or 4). The reason I ask is because the upper intake to me looks like that of a 3.8 engine. Very possible that I am wrong and I am meaning no offense by asking this question. I have a 98 with a 3.0 and it looks different.

When your friend listened with the stethoscope did he listen to the engine lower end from under the vehicle against the oil pan??? IN my opiniion the more I listen to the video the more it sounds like a bad rod bearing to me. (Hopefully I am wrong).

U. I have the 3.0. From what I understand, 97-8 had a different engine in some ways. I have a 2000 3.0l.


I have not been able to find a diagram yet of coil and wire info, still looking.

......I have not been able to find a diagram yet of coil and wire info, still looking......

No, you have found the diagrams .... they are clearly in the links you posted: The pack is shown as a rectangle with cable terminals 1-2-3 across the "top" and 4-6-5 across the "bottom". That's it! There's nothing else needed ....other than to know how the cyls are numbered.

That information is not included in the Ford shop manuals .... but does appear as a sticker on top of OEM ignition packs. We get in trouble when we use aftermarket ig packs that do not include this simple information.

In the first pages of a Hayes manual for the Winny, one can find the same simple crude diagrams on the 3.0 and the 3.8. Simple and crude, but immensely important!

Sorry about the headache, they can be awful!

I finally got around to watching the videos. Are these your videos? About that engine: Sorry, but that ain't no 3.0!

You are totally right, 8th digit is a 4, 10th is a y, so it's a 3.8l v8 from 2000.

Fortunately, all the parts I have replaced are the same for either engine.

Of course, that does make me a certifiable dumbass, too! :icon16:


I'm afraid to ask what high-tech excercise is planned for the kerosene.

Seafoam and marvel mystery oil both contain naptha. I was going to use it, by pouring a quart into the engine, running it for 10 seconds, then draining the oil. I was thinking it could be a sticky lifter, given how much it improved in sound yesterday when I put in the seafoam. That seems to be the main ingredient, naptha.


The engine in the video may have other problems but I'm pretty sure the spark cables are not hooked up properly.

How do you know the land lord spiked the engine? Did you see him do it? And he used anti-freeze? .... that's pretty clever. My land lord would probably use mop water or pee .... but anti-freeze, why did he go to that trouble and expense? Perhaps he's smarter than most land lords. Have you asked him to have a look at the engine? Probably help you with those spark cables.

We had a neighbor who was using a steel pipe to pound on our common ceiling, he stopped then re-started. The neighbor tried to drive us out, that failed, our landlord tried claiming we didn't have a lease, we obtained a copy thru a Senator's office (long story). We found out later our landlord was an unreformed drug addict, like the neighbor he used to intimidate us. That stuff doesn't work with me, I'm a descendant of John of Donegal, you can read about my ancestor beating his landlord to death, then moving here- 4 of his sons were decorated officers in the American Rev. Another neighbor who was a relative (same family but 200 years ago) had a son who was a Captain and his Dad also is DAR listed, and Geo. Washington himself said my ancestor's brother was the most fearsome soldier he had ever met. He said it scared him to watch him review the troops, and hat was the Father of our Country!

So, I don't give in very often. After we lost a lot of sleep one night due to the banging, we discussed applying the wage garnishment, and then heard a noise on our porch. We went out, and the landlord had the crazy drug addict shovelling, but the footstep encased in snow, two of them, on the porch, were still there-too big for the little run, but about the same size as our landlord, and he had already done the listening in thing before. We had the van parked in front of his office, and for the past two weeks had considered getting a locking gas cap, and we got in and drove-within a few miles, the car started gagging.

Oldest son, back from afghanistan, came right by, stuck his finger in the fuel intake, let me smell it, it was sweet and green. When I took off the fuel filter later, tho, it has anti-freeze in the intake part. I looked up on ask.com, sugar usually clears out easily. But antifreeze can cause the injectors not to work, and our landlord had helped us 4 years ago when our plymouth van had died, and kept laughing about the fact when he sprayed starter fluid into the intake "fuel just does not seem to be getting into the engine". So, since that mathed up the symptoms, and I had the filter with dried and wet anti-freeze, I knew who it was. He's gone into our place, and stolen things, and he allowed a mormon family to invade our place and wreck it, since they were trying to convert our daughter and miserably failed. But they did go thru our medical records, and some other stuff.

I got some serious dirt in the past on people, including molestation in town, and had told people, which made them lose their jobs, and the cops had told people I was dealing meth. I then posted online the names and addies of their informants (I do not do drugs, ever) and their tricks, and the cops now avoid me like the plague. But my landlord, and the police had already admitted to us, with witnesses present, they had slandered me and who their informants were. We figured the landlord was trying to silence us, and stop us from getting the informant in trouble, so he doped or anti-freezed our engine.

We also found out, he'd tried successfully to oust 2 dozen people, including 8 served with papers, previously. We disproved everything he said, and the judge humiliated him publicly, so we know he's mad. But, I have a legal right to sleep, and the dipstick will pay for that later this month. I know he can't afford the garnishment, but hey, he did us, now it's time for him.

So, when I had the fuel filter, and it was obvious what had happened both to the ford and the plymouth, and the symptoms matched, I was certain what had happened. I know who it was. He has 6 cameras on the property, but if I had him served with a subpoena he'd destroy the vids first. But that does not mean I do not know-I do, I just do not have enough evidence to get a thorough and complete prosecution. But I have the filter, and know enough to guess pretty successfully.

That enuff, or do you need more?

I don't know why you said trouble or expense. All you need is a gallon or two of anti-freeze, a funnel which I've borrowed from him before, and to be mental (which he already is), and vengeful and keep your mouth shut. From what I have read, this happens a lot nationwide, but only with people who want to kill the engine, not just disable it temporarily and send a message.

My landlord loves making other people hurt, then threatening them. When we won, we told other people to stand up, they did, and now he can't evict anyone. His perp-in residence the drug addict, was reporting to the local probation officer on people, and making stuff up-and since he can't legally testify, he can't do that. We told people to challenge his story, since he can't legally testify, or vote, and they did, and the neighborhood has mellowed out. That has extremely ticked off people who make money from arresting people for a living, and making them take classes at 50$/per, and 200$/per month probation fees. Not to mention the people they cut deals with to hurt others (think the movie, Needful Things by Stephen King) for vengeance, because they are sick, in exchange for illegally expunging their convictions.

Wow, that is a lot. But, you wanted to know.

I did switch out two spark plug wires, and that caused the engine not to start. So, I do not know.