Timing Off on Windstar, Where are Timing Marks?

Here ia a video of the process once the piston is at TDC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeosE7tondA

Even tho I have an air compressor, I would never use it for this task. Nothing wrong with the air compressor procedure ... I just hear a different drummer (or is it drunkard?).

If you remove all plugs, the engine is fairly easy to crank-over by hand. Crank the engine over until the all push-rods are down (valves are closed) for the cyl of interest. Use a long slender plastic rod to feel the top of the piston .... making sure it is close to TDC. The valves are now captured .... will not fall into the combustion chamber. Work away on valve seals and springs ... for only this one cylinder!!

I have heard of folks, not having a spring compression tool, of following a similar method... but adding following; ....insert some soft cord into the spark plug hole before the piston is fully up. Stuff it in, but don't loose the end of the cord!! Crank the piston on up, until the cord smashes up against the valve-heads ... holding them fully closed while you work.

Even tho I have an air compressor, I would never use it for this task. Nothing wrong with the air compressor procedure ... I just hear a different drummer (or is it drunkard?).

If you remove all plugs, the engine is fairly easy to crank-over by hand. Crank the engine over until the all push-rods are down (valves are closed) for the cyl of interest. Use a long slender plastic rod to feel the top of the piston .... making sure it is close to TDC. The valves are now captured .... will not fall into the combustion chamber. Work away on valve seals and springs ... for only this one cylinder!!

I have heard of folks, not having a spring compression tool, of following a similar method... but adding following; ....insert some soft cord into the spark plug hole before the piston is fully up. Stuff it in, but don't loose the end of the cord!! Crank the piston on up, until the cord smashes up against the valve-heads ... holding them fully closed while you work.

I have also heard of this procedure but had forgotten about it, eliminates worrying about air compressor and valve dropping in clyinder.

Searles you may want to get a couple of keepers when you get the spring if you can get 2 of them seperately, as a back up. Just in case you drop one and can't find. Just a thought.

I haven't looked closely but I am thinking it would not be to hard to make a spring compressor out of a small 1/8th or 1/4" steel plate with a couple holes drilled in it for the rocker arm bolt and opening for removing keepers.

I have also heard of this procedure but had forgotten about it, eliminates worrying about air compressor and valve dropping in clyinder.

Searles you may want to get a couple of keepers when you get the spring if you can get 2 of them seperately, as a back up. Just in case you drop one and can't find. Just a thought.

I haven't looked closely but I am thinking it would not be to hard to make a spring compressor out of a small 1/8th or 1/4" steel plate with a couple holes drilled in it for the rocker arm bolt and opening for removing keepers.

autozone rents them, I already have it. I also got an electric tire inflator pump, but it has a schrader valve. I would need a convertor, anyone know where to get one? No one seems to rent air compressors anymore.

autozone rents them, I already have it. I also got an electric tire inflator pump, but it has a schrader valve. I would need a convertor, anyone know where to get one? No one seems to rent air compressors anymore.


Searles consider doing the method 12Ounce suggests with the soft rope in the clyinder to hold the valves up. Eliminates the air compressor need and rope should be easy to access.

I have not done this repair, but I STRONGLY suggest that you set the cylinder in question to TDC as 12ounce has suggested.
If this removes the possibility of a valve dropping down so far that you cannot grasp the stem and pull it back up.......then it is a no-brainer.
This way, if Murphy decides to visit (If it can go wrong.....) you won't have this to worry about.

YES!, you are correct! There have been posts about valve springs breaking in the 3.8L windstar.
Not super common, but it does happen.

If this is a vehicle that you plan to hang onto, I would recommend a subscription to AlldataDIY.
This will give you access to a vehicle specific manual.....it is the Factory Service Manual.
This has much better information than the Hayes, which seems to be more inclusive of a variety of vehicles....whereas the Alldata is much the same as what you get when you order the Genuine FORD manual.....only it is online and is constantly updated with Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs) as they come out.
So, if FORD issues a TSB for your 2000 (or any other year) Windstar, it will show up on the AlldataDIY site for your vehicle.

That, along with the good folks here, who have HANDS ON experience with your vintage (1999-2003) Windstar......with this specific repair......you have a lot going for you.

Again, for your sake, try to take your time....and take breaks as this repair on the back side of the motor is placing you in awkward working positions.

I have not done this repair, but I STRONGLY suggest that you set the cylinder in question to TDC as 12ounce has suggested.
If this removes the possibility of a valve dropping down so far that you cannot grasp the stem and pull it back up.......then it is a no-brainer.
This way, if Murphy decides to visit (If it can go wrong.....) you won't have this to worry about.

YES!, you are correct! There have been posts about valve springs breaking in the 3.8L windstar.
Not super common, but it does happen.

If this is a vehicle that you plan to hang onto, I would recommend a subscription to AlldataDIY.
This will give you access to a vehicle specific manual.....it is the Factory Service Manual.
This has much better information than the Hayes, which seems to be more inclusive of a variety of vehicles....whereas the Alldata is much the same as what you get when you order the Genuine FORD manual.....only it is online and is constantly updated with Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs) as they come out.
So, if FORD issues a TSB for your 2000 (or any other year) Windstar, it will show up on the AlldataDIY site for your vehicle.

That, along with the good folks here, who have HANDS ON experience with your vintage (1999-2003) Windstar......with this specific repair......you have a lot going for you.

Again, for your sake, try to take your time....and take breaks as this repair on the back side of the motor is placing you in awkward working positions.

The risk here is too great. I'd rather wait until Monday, for an air compressor, and to make sure the parts actually come in, to do it. I do not trust myself, under stress, and dealing with a semi-obnoxious step-kid, to get it TDC, without fail. Using an air compressor means no matter where it is, at least it will not drop into the engine, forcing a repair I simply cannot hope to do at all.

We found out, my mother and the older brother have been talking to him, and he gets resentful every time we ask him to do anything. This disappears once I get him part of the way thru the issue each time, but the lack of support makes it rough at first, and this repair seems to be too damn risky w/o the compressor.

In the last 24 hours, apparently everyone of the neighbors and even the family has found out we are waiting on parts, and every one has jumped on my back. So, I will wait. I know you guys trust this stuff, but I do not, and trying to figure out how much rope and TDC too seems like a nightmare, and is beyond my being able to estimate what will happen.

This means I will miss Easter Service at my church, but we have already called people about rides and the calls were not returned, so I have decided it means I'll stay at home, read the Bible, and maybe watch TV, and wait for Monday. I cannot obtain a schrader valve to comp converter, and I know they exist, but no one will even answer my question as to where, so I am giving up for right now.

Tomorrow, hopefully the parts will come in, but I'm not holding my breath. Once the valve is stabilized by air pressure, the repair looks like a snap. My Father was a machinist who worked on making nuclear weapons. I do not have that skill, but thanks for the vote of confidence. I can brag FWIW after it's done I did a valve repair, to an extent.

Thanks. If you guys know of any other way, I'd like to hear it. But today, faced with a 35$ per day (70$ total) for an air comp, but no guarantee I'll have parts, or the right ones, I'm sitting out until Monday, when I can do a few other things to get one if I have the actual parts in my hand.

Happy Easter to everyone here!

You seem to think using the air compressor is somehow the safer method .... I assure you: IT IS NOT!!

If you do not have the Piston, in question, not only at TDC, but also "on the compression cycle" ... i.e, both valves closed your valves can fall down into the chamber ... while the air compressor is pumping away!

(How difficult can it be to slide a plastic rod into the spark plug hole and "feel" the piston rise up, hesitate, and then begin dropping down ... as the piston passes thru TDC?

The method I described is hard to beat for safety .... but anyone can fail if he must. I have insisted on failing many times!

The risk here is too great. I'd rather wait until Monday, for an air compressor, and to make sure the parts actually come in, to do it. I do not trust myself, under stress, and dealing with a semi-obnoxious step-kid, to get it TDC, without fail. Using an air compressor means no matter where it is, at least it will not drop into the engine, forcing a repair I simply cannot hope to do at all.

We found out, my mother and the older brother have been talking to him, and he gets resentful every time we ask him to do anything. This disappears once I get him part of the way thru the issue each time, but the lack of support makes it rough at first, and this repair seems to be too damn risky w/o the compressor.

In the last 24 hours, apparently everyone of the neighbors and even the family has found out we are waiting on parts, and every one has jumped on my back. So, I will wait. I know you guys trust this stuff, but I do not, and trying to figure out how much rope and TDC too seems like a nightmare, and is beyond my being able to estimate what will happen.

This means I will miss Easter Service at my church, but we have already called people about rides and the calls were not returned, so I have decided it means I'll stay at home, read the Bible, and maybe watch TV, and wait for Monday. I cannot obtain a schrader valve to comp converter, and I know they exist, but no one will even answer my question as to where, so I am giving up for right now.

Tomorrow, hopefully the parts will come in, but I'm not holding my breath. Once the valve is stabilized by air pressure, the repair looks like a snap. My Father was a machinist who worked on making nuclear weapons. I do not have that skill, but thanks for the vote of confidence. I can brag FWIW after it's done I did a valve repair, to an extent.

Thanks. If you guys know of any other way, I'd like to hear it. But today, faced with a 35$ per day (70$ total) for an air comp, but no guarantee I'll have parts, or the right ones, I'm sitting out until Monday, when I can do a few other things to get one if I have the actual parts in my hand.

Happy Easter to everyone here!

Searles it makes perfect sense to be nervous about the repair. Waiting for the parts on a Saturday also makes sense so you do not have the extra expense of air compressor and no parts. Like wiswind recommends, take your time, hurrying only gets you in trouble.

Reread 12Ounce's post #122. This is very good sound advice.

You are understanding that using a air compressor will keep the valve from falling if the piston is not on TDC. THIS IS NOT THE CASE. THE PISTON HAS TO BE AT TDC IN ORDER FOR THE VALVE TO BE CLOSED. (push rods down).nAlso if the valves are not closed the air from the compressor will escape and THE VALVE WILL DROP INTO CLYINDER WHEN YOU REMOVE THE KEEPERS ON THE VALVE STEM. 12Ounce is also saying with the piston at TDC the valve CAN NOT DROP INTO THE CLYINDER AND BE UNRETRIEVABLE. The piston will keep the valve in place. He is also saying that if you add the rope before the piston is to TDC, once you have the rope into clyinder turn the piston to top dead center, once you get close to tdc with the rope on top of the piston it will push against the valve and clyinder head stopping the movement of the crankshaft and piston so do not use excessive force on the crankshaft when rotating it.

Like also stated use a longer screwdriver and place it thru the spark plug hole so you can touch the top of piston. As the piston moves upward you will feel it and when it gets to tdc and starts to go back down stop and back it up (ccw) a little so you can insert the rope, then turn again (CW) to reach TDC. Then you should be able to remove the keepers, valve spring, and seal with out worrys.

If you have any questions do not hesitate to ask. We are here to help get your vehicle operational trust worthy again.

EDIT: Here is a video of the rope procedure, it is on a different engine but same principle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=fZ5nZhDdAMs&NR=1

Video with air, different engine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob_4-F-m1FI&feature=fvwrel

I would do my BEST to get it to TDC for the cylinder that you are going to do the work with the valve(s).
THEN.....go ahead and use the air compressor, and follow the instructions for the job.
It may sound like you are double doing the prevention of the drop the valve.......but if I had a 3rd way to add.......I would add it also.
In other words......if the air compressor method fails......you have the piston up so that the valve will not fall all the way down into the cylinder.

That, and take your time.......when I hurry, I almost always mess something up.

The advice you are getting is from folks who want to see this work out well for you!!!!

You seem to think using the air compressor is somehow the safer method .... I assure you: IT IS NOT!!

If you do not have the Piston, in question, not only at TDC, but also "on the compression cycle" ... i.e, both valves closed your valves can fall down into the chamber ... while the air compressor is pumping away!

(How difficult can it be to slide a plastic rod into the spark plug hole and "feel" the piston rise up, hesitate, and then begin dropping down ... as the piston passes thru TDC?

The method I described is hard to beat for safety .... but anyone can fail if he must. I have insisted on failing many times!

I was not disputing the TDC. I re-read, that seems to be the problem. I am going to use an air compressor also for insruance, as I am under the impression hat I make mistakes, even if I think I have the valve at TDC, and do not want to do otherwise and the air comp will help.

Maybe despite reading this and watching it on youtube, I have it wrong. But, every one of the youtube people also had the air comp and go it to TC ,too.

I would do my BEST to get it to TDC for the cylinder that you are going to do the work with the valve(s).
THEN.....go ahead and use the air compressor, and follow the instructions for the job.
It may sound like you are double doing the prevention of the drop the valve.......but if I had a 3rd way to add.......I would add it also.
In other words......if the air compressor method fails......you have the piston up so that the valve will not fall all the way down into the cylinder.

That, and take your time.......when I hurry, I almost always mess something up.

The advice you are getting is from folks who want to see this work out well for you!!!!


Okay, great! I was planning on doing both. I am under the impression I can get it to TDC. I do not have an air compressor, and puttng down the nylon rope into the cylinder thru the spark plug hole sounds like a recipe for getting threads stuck down there, too.

Is that what it is right? Put the rope down the spark plug hole?

As another thing-the Angry Ed mechanic stated the problem was the leckemby problem, with the isolator bolts. All 8 are green, and have no problems I can see at all, not even a crack.

Can I just put them back in, and return the reisniz bolts to autozone? They are not damaged by removal in some secret way I cannot tell, are they? Just crank to 20 lbs torque?

They gave me the wrong gaskets too, these are metal, and do not fit into the bottom of the plenum. I really was raped on this entire thing. I can't help thinking at least someone knew what had happened, and did not tell me. It is so obvious now. I don't mean here, either, I mean like the mechanic at Glover's and the other people I rec'd advice from.

:runaround:

As another thing-the Angry Ed mechanic stated the problem was the leckemby problem, with the isolator bolts. All 8 are green, and have no problems I can see at all, not even a crack.

Can I just put them back in, and return the reisniz bolts to autozone? They are not damaged by removal in some secret way I cannot tell, are they? Just crank to 20 lbs torque?

They gave me the wrong gaskets too, these are metal, and do not fit into the bottom of the plenum. I really was raped on this entire thing. I can't help thinking at least someone knew what had happened, and did not tell me. It is so obvious now. I don't mean here, either, I mean like the mechanic at Glover's and the other people I rec'd advice from.

:runaround:

Yes the rope goes thru the spark plug hole. I would not worry about rope threads being a problem. A tip for TDC. (When finding TDC you will need to be on compression stroke, a way to tell if you are on compression stroke is by placing your finger over spark plug hole, when the piston is coming up on compression stroke you will feel air against your finger.. Also you should hear a wosh sound.)

Regarding the isolator bolts, My opinion is since you have it all apart why not install the new bolts then you know it should be good again. Hopefully someone that has done this will respond. Just make sure you are torqueing to correct spec INCH POUNDS OR FOOT POUNDS.

What is the part number for the gaskets that you are referring to. Did you get the complete intake gasket set including the lower intake gasket or just the isolator bolts and plenium set????

Ditto on the verification of inch / pounds vs ft/pounds.
I recommend a "beam" style torque wrench for those inch/pound values.
I had a "clicker" style that did not "click" properly.....and have read that this can be a problem for the lower torque values.
The difference between these Inch vs foot and type wrenches can be the difference between a proper torqued bolt and a broken bolt.

A side note, don't decide to replace the lower intake (alluminum) manifold gaskets just because you have them......you only want to remove the lower intake manifold if you have a very good reason to.....because it adds a lot more work to the job.
I had mine off because of the lower intake manifold gaskets leaking......

Before mounting the upper intake (black nylon/plastic) manifold, wipe the gasket seating surfaces clean of dirt so that you get a good seal.
Don't add anything to the gaskets....they are to be installed without any extra sealant.

Don't worry about stray threads from the rope being left inside the cylinder....it is hard grit/sand that we want to keep out as that will cause damage.....also any significant amount of fluid as that can cause "hydrolocking"......which is due to the fact that fluid does not compress like air.....so when the piston comes up when there is much fluid in the cylinder.....the compression value (pressure) inside the cylinder will be MUCH higher than you want......even enough to cause something to break.
This is why we have cautioned you to avoid getting fluid/dirt down into the intake......hard grit to score the cylinder walls or fluid to break a connecting rod, etc.

(How difficult can it be to slide a plastic rod into the spark plug hole and "feel" the piston rise up, hesitate, and then begin dropping down ... as the piston passes thru TDC?

Because nobody had said just this, which is what I needed. I have an I.Q. of 148, tested twice, but still have to have someone state that. Once I get it, I get it really well, so people usually get pretty upset. As if I'm faking being dumb to mess with them, make them over-explain.

Right now, I am taking the vent thing off in the engine, need a 7/16ths box end wrench. I was able to obtain an air compressor, and did not havethe timing marks on the engine to automatically ind TDC on the compression stroke. I guess there is the exhaust and comp.

What I'll do is, remove this, then the full valve cover, and then try cranking using the starter key, and put a screwdriver in the spark plug hole.

When it is up, and both push rods are down, I'll attach the a/c and then pump it up, then do the valve top part, which looks pretty easy now. Compress, remove two retainers, slide off the compressor tool, compress th new spring, put it on with the little hat, add the retainers, and then release it, and use a hammer to make sure it sits correctly.

How does that sound? I plan on using the screwdriver to tell when it is up.

I have a valve compression tool, can this help in any way?

Looking at your video .... and assuming no disassembly work has been done on the fulcrum hold down bolt, no loosening, ....since the valve cover was removed .... then that hold down bolt is far too loose, allowing the rocker to be loose and, possibly, the push-rod escape.

It makes me guess that some repair work has been done on this engine in its past. ??.

My sister will not say. The isolator bolts are all green-shouldered, so I returned them, so it could dl have been fixed.

It could also have been sabotaged, except for the grease or oil gum around the valve cover broke free a little easily, and covered the edge. So, perhaps?

I'll try re-torquing, just to be sure. Good suggestion!

My sister will not say. The isolator bolts are all green-shouldered, so I returned them, so it could dl have been fixed.

It could also have been sabotaged, except for the grease or oil gum around the valve cover broke free a little easily, and covered the edge. So, perhaps?

I'll try re-torquing, just to be sure. Good suggestion!


I am now confused, are you saying that the spring is not broken?? (You should be able to visually see the spring is broken)


DO NOT HAVE THE SREWDRIVER IN THE SPARK HOLE AND CRANK THE ENGINE WITH THE KEY AND STARTER, YOU COULD CAUSE DAMAGE THAT WAY.

Once you have the piston coming up on comprression stroke with the key and starter, remove battery negative cable and turn the crankshaft with a socket and ratchet slowly until TDC is reached, using the starter will spin the engine past TDC and with the screw driver in the clyinder can cause damge to piston, valves, clyinder wall and spark plug hole threads.

CONSIDER HOW LONG IT TOOK YOU TO REMOVE COWL AND VALVE COVER, COULD SOMEONE HAVE REMOVED EVERYTHING TO SABATOGE AND REINSTALL WITHOUT SOMEONE NOTICING????

I am now confused, are you saying that the spring is not broken?? (You should be able to visually see the spring is broken)


DO NOT HAVE THE SREWDRIVER IN THE SPARK HOLE AND CRANK THE ENGINE WITH THE KEY AND STARTER, YOU COULD CAUSE DAMAGE THAT WAY.

Once you have the piston coming up on comprression stroke with the key and starter, remove battery negative cable and turn the crankshaft with a socket and ratchet slowly until TDC is reached, using the starter will spin the engine past TDC and with the screw driver in the clyinder can cause damge to piston, valves, clyinder wall and spark plug hole threads.

CONSIDER HOW LONG IT TOOK YOU TO REMOVE COWL AND VALVE COVER, COULD SOMEONE HAVE REMOVED EVERYTHING TO SABATOGE AND REINSTALL WITHOUT SOMEONE NOTICING????

Nope, I don't think so, in answer to your last question.

But, I thot you'd asked just that, so I was just following your lead.

I tried using a plastic straw, started it, and it kicked out a whole bunch of car cleaner, and the straw. It seems to be in the same spot. I thot I only had to remove the one spark plug. Is it all of them?

I can't get a screwdriver down into the hole, as there is a vacuum tube or power steering fluid tube right in back of it.

I'll try turning the crankshaft, but when I did that before, there is only or less than an inch between the sidewall and the pulley, so I'll see how far it goes. Coudl I just turn that until it gets there? he straw goes up?

.....

Right now, I am taking the vent thing (??) off in the engine, need a 7/16ths [/B](12mm ??)box end wrench. I was able to obtain an air compressor, and did not havethe timing marks on the engine to automatically ind TDC on the compression stroke. I guess there is the exhaust and comp.

Let me try to make a point here: The markings on the crank-pully, if you can find them .... they are hard to see ... mine were the barest of scratchings. Anyway, this TDC marking is only for the #1 cylinder ... and it is TDC for both compression and exhaust stroke ... on cyl #1.

What I'll do is, remove this, then the full valve cover, and then try cranking using the starter key, and put a screwdriver in the spark plug hole.

NO, NO, NO .... we said to remove all spark plugs .... ALLLLL of them! Turn the crank by hand ... using a wrench. NO STARTER. A screw driver!!!! Did we not suggest a [B]plastic rod?. Not a screwdriver!!! Not a soda straw. Go to some garden shop, maybe Home Depot, maybe Walmart .... and buy one off those reflectors that sit on a long plastic rod ... the gizmo that folks use to stick in the ground on either side of their driveway ... so it is easier to find in the dark or under the snow. This plastic rod is about 3/16" in diameter, 36" long perhaps....with the reflector on the end.....

Please, follow the plan .....

Right now, I am taking the vent thing off in the engine, need a 7/16ths box end wrench. I was able to obtain an air compressor, and did not havethe timing marks on the engine to automatically ind TDC on the compression stroke. I guess there is the exhaust and comp.


All bolts on the Windstar engine are metric sizes. You may round the heads of any bolts that you remove with english size tools. There are a couple of exceptions where some pipe fittings seem to be english sizes.

Also, the air compressor method can be made more reliable if you remove (or at least loosen) both rocker arms so that neither can be opened by the push rod. As mentioned, the biggest risk with the air compression approach is that the air pressure will push the piston down into the cylinder, rotating the camshaft to a point that will open the other valve. You still want to keep the piston at TDC to avoid the possibility that the valve can fall into the cylinder.

On the other hand, the biggest advantage is that the valve is not against anything but compressed air and the valve seat. Sometimes the keepers don't come off very easily because the retainer is stuck. I've used a method involving a socket, a magnet (to catch the keepers) and a sharp blow from a hammer to knock the retainer free from the keepers. I wouldn't try that approach if the valve is only supported by the top of the piston, and I'd be a little leery about doing it if the valve is held in place by compressed rope. The fact that 12Ounce suggests it gives it a lot more credibility, but I don't know if he'd recommend using a hammer to free a stuck retainer.

I've borrowed a valve spring compressor from Autozone.

The air compression equipment is, as mentioned, used to keep the valve from falling into the cylinder. It is right to check that the valve moves freely. It could have gone in far enough that the piston bent the valve stem. However, there is another more subtle concern. If the valve stem isn't bent, but the valve was in far enough to damage the surface on the valve that sits on the valve seat, then your valve should be replaced. This requires removal of the head plus proper refacing and seating of the new valve.

If the valve moves freely in the valve guide (considering the friction due to the valve stem seal), you can give it a try as it is.

BTW, the brown coating is oil varnish, which is easily removed using carb. cleaner.

It moved freely, yes, so that means it is alright? Great!

I cannot get the crankshaft to turn at all using a socket and extension on its center nut. Am I supposed to loosen the idler pulley first?

I cannot get the crankshaft to turn at all using a socket and extension and ratchet on its center nut. Am I supposed to loosen the idler pulley first?

With all spark plugs removed??? If so, this engine has some interesting issues!

With all the plugs removed, I can easily rotate a 3.8 ... along with all the accessories driven by the belt. And I will never see seventy ... again!

Before you remove all the spark plugs....you might label the wires so that you get them back in the right plugs when you put them back.

DO NOT use a screw driver or other metal object down the spark plug hole......
Use something like a straw.....something that will bend should it get crooked or otherwise bind in there.
A screw driver could punch a hole in a piston.......a straw will simply bend.

With all spark plugs removed??? If so, this engine has some interesting issues!

With all the plugs removed, I can easily rotate a 3.8 ... along with all the accessories driven by the belt. And I will never see seventy ... again!

I had my step son, helpful lad, rotate it, using a 4 and 10 inch extension. I have the notch or timing bolt that sticks out over the crankshaft, over the gap in toothing on it. Right after it, there are a bunch of hash marks, I think they say two and three. Which of those hash marks is the one I set it too? I have the a/c set up.

I'm not worried about getting the retaining pieces, as I have a computer magnet, the ones you use for grabbing stuff that falls, and the spring is plain broken, so one the crank is at definite tdc, I'll clip into the spark plug attachment with the a/c, turn it on, wiat a minute or so, then use the comp tool to depress the hat, take out the retainers, pull of the spring, then reloadthe newer one with the hat on it, compress it, put it over the valve stem thingy, compress more until the hat is loose, puti nthe retainers, and then release the tool slowly.

Which mark is the one I set the crankshaft to? The straw is already hitting the top of the piston, but I do not want a mistake! The numbers are well rusted. Use carb cleaner?

With the straw touching the top of piston, you should be able to feel the piston move upward to TDC. IF you keeping turning by hand and the piston begins to go down, stop and turn crankshaft CCW until piston is again at TDC and then look at the rocker arms, they should be pointing down. ( If it makes you feel more secure remove the other rocker arm once you are sure to be on TDC . THis way both valves wil be closed and no air should be able to leak out.) WIth all the spark plugs removed if the piston is not on TDC the air pressure can push the piston down and possibly open the other valve. You will know if this happens.

Regarding the marks on the harmonic balancer I cannot answer.

With the straw touching the top of piston, you should be able to feel the piston move upward to TDC. IF you keeping turning by hand and the piston begins to go down, stop and turn crankshaft CCW until piston is again at TDC and then look at the rocker arms, they should be pointing down. ( If it makes you feel more secure remove the other rocker arm once you are sure to be on TDC . THis way both valves wil be closed and no air should be able to leak out.) WIth all the spark plugs removed if the piston is not on TDC the air pressure can push the piston down and possibly open the other valve. You will know if this happens.

Regarding the marks on the harmonic balancer I cannot answer.

cool, thanks. We just did it. I realized it was having problems when it got to TDC. Then this last time it refused to go farther. I used the straw, ran it thru a few times, figured it out. I could have just done it right off, it started at TDC.

It was pretty easy. The valve moved up and down easily. I dropped one piece of the retainers, and he found it, it went in easily. I had to force the spring compressor down to the very bottom to get it on. It stands higher than the older ones, a little bit.

It retained the pressure, and the valve being up, so the seals are alright. I taped it, and then compressed and replace the spring. Thanks so very much!

I am still a little leery, given it seemed sticky when it got to TDC. But tomorow I'll find out. I will start it or crank it, plugs out, tonite to get rid of the carb cleaner, then put the wheel back on. Then, all spark plugs, replace the valve cover, then the lower plenum with the older isolator bolts, then the upper, and replace all the vacuum hoses and vent stuff. Hopefully all the bolts will go in.

I'll let you know what happens, thanks to you all!

I used the straw, it dropped into a void ,then you could feel the piston come back up. Few times thru, it was easy to tell.

cool, thanks. We just did it. I realized it was having problems when it got to TDC. Then this last time it refused to go farther. I used the straw, ran it thru a few times, figured it out. I could have just done it right off, it started at TDC.

It was pretty easy. The valve moved up and down easily. I dropped one piece of the retainers, and he found it, it went in easily. I had to force the spring compressor down to the very bottom to get it on. It stands higher than the older ones, a little bit.

It retained the pressure, and the valve being up, so the seals are alright. I taped it, and then compressed and replace the spring. Thanks so very much!

I am still a little leery, given it seemed sticky when it got to TDC. But tomorow I'll find out. I will start it or crank it, plugs out, tonite to get rid of the carb cleaner, then put the wheel back on. Then, all spark plugs, replace the valve cover, then the lower plenum with the older isolator bolts, then the upper, and replace all the vacuum hoses and vent stuff. Hopefully all the bolts will go in.

I'll let you know what happens, thanks to you all!

I used the straw, it dropped into a void ,then you could feel the piston come back up. Few times thru, it was easy to tell.


Great, Congratulations, Good job.

Alright. I re-attached the rocker arm. What number do I torque it to? In the book it says to torque to specifications. But i nthe front, it gives one spec as 60-120, for step 1, and 23-30 for step two. I do not see any delineation as to the current step I am on. I am torquing down after attaching the spring successfully, and re-cranking to car to get it to kick out the excess carb cleaner in al l6 cylinders.

Any clue? It's at 25 right now.

From what I remember, the first step is to tighten them to a small torque (~5 ft-lbs) with both valves closed. The second step is to tighten to a higher torque (~25 ft-lbs) with the valves in any position. Your first torque value must be in-lbs. A torque of 60 in-lbs is 5 ft-lbs.

Don't go over 25 foot lbs .... unless someone, reading the actual spec, says otherwise. I remember 24 -25 to be in the neighborhood of correct.

Don't go over 25 foot lbs .... unless someone, reading the actual spec, says otherwise. I remember 24 -25 to be in the neighborhood of correct.


The torque spec in my CD for 2000 3.8 engine is 24 foot lbs. Good memory 12Ounce.

Looking it up on alldataDIY for my '96 (they only show the year you subscribe to) they give a range of 22-29 ft. lbs for the final value.
For the final tightening they emphasize that the Rocker arm seats must be fully seated in the cylinder head and the push rods must be seated in the rocker arm sockets before the final tightening or you may damage the engine.
So 25 ft. lbs is great for the final torque value.

They state that the camshaft can be in any position for the final torque value, whereas they want things "just so" for the 1st value (which was 44 inch lbs MAXIMUM), emphasis on INCH pounds......and they have MAXIMUM in caps and bold.

Additional note.....before you put the valve cover back on.......they want you to lubricate the valve stem and rocker arm.....I would think slathering some new motor oil around (does not take much) would do it.
I would also think (someone chime in and verify please) that manual rotation of the engine through a cycle to make sure that the valves are working....not binding, stem seal floating up.... etc would be a good move.

Additional note.....before you put the valve cover back on.......they want you to lubricate the valve stem and rocker arm.....I would think slathering some new motor oil around (does not take much) would do it.
I would also think (someone chime in and verify please) that manual rotation of the engine through a cycle to make sure that the valves are working....not binding, stem seal floating up.... etc would be a good move.

I agree wiswind that turning the engine over by hand to make sure the valve opens and closes would be wise. After rotating by hand I would also disable the engine from starting and just crank it over several clycles just as a extra measure to make sure all is well. Once satisfied all is well install vavle cover.

Have you completed the reinstalltion of all parts and started the engine??You may also want to change the oil to remove any cleaner and gasoline that may have gotten into oil.

Have you completed the reinstalltion of all parts and started the engine??You may also want to change the oil to remove any cleaner and gasoline that may have gotten into oil.

I just finished half an hour ago. Crazy relative went into a rage, finally got everything together with people, then with the car, today.

I did the plenum bolt tightening thing in 4 steps, as yesterday I tried re-using a bolt, and it broke off into the plenum. I used a drill to make it rotate and got it out.

I also, after putting in the rocker arm, rotated the engine to get some of the carb cleaner out, per step 57 here

https://sites.google.com/site/fordf150p0171p0174fix/P0171P0174-Fix/page2

It cranked over, however, I did not have an vacuum tube connected back driver side, then I tried again. Will not rotate, but starter is working.

I used 3.5 cans of carb cleaner. Should I attempt to take off the tire, and rotate the engine again?

My neighbor turned out to be a betrayer. He came out, sat there grinning. He won't speak to me, just grins-what a major jerk. I don't follow Ayn Rand, believe in mutual aid, and he obviously thinks my suffering or ignorance is funny.

Any clues? Starter working, not turning over. Just keep trying? Get starter fluid?

I just finished half an hour ago. Crazy relative went into a rage, finally got everything together with people, then with the car, today.

I did the plenum bolt tightening thing in 4 steps, as yesterday I tried re-using a bolt, and it broke off into the plenum. I used a drill to make it rotate and got it out.

I also, after putting in the rocker arm, rotated the engine to get some of the carb cleaner out, per step 57 here

https://sites.google.com/site/fordf150p0171p0174fix/P0171P0174-Fix/page2

It cranked over, however, I did not have an vacuum tube connected back driver side, then I tried again. Will not rotate, but starter is working.

I used 3.5 cans of carb cleaner. Should I attempt to take off the tire, and rotate the engine again?

My neighbor turned out to be a betrayer. He came out, sat there grinning. He won't speak to me, just grins-what a major jerk. I don't follow Ayn Rand, believe in mutual aid, and he obviously thinks my suffering or ignorance is funny.

Any clues? Starter working, not turning over. Just keep trying? Get starter fluid?


I would say remove spark plugs again and see if it turns. Sounds like there is fluid in the clyinders and will not let it rotate. Does not take much in the clyinders to lock iit up.

Once plugs are removed, if it rotates crank it over several times. Wait llet starter col off then crank it again until you know that all the carb cleaner is gone. What soes the oil smell like????

Starter fluid will not do any good if engine will not turn over.

It goes back to what I mentioned a couple posts ago......fluid does not compress.
The area inside the cylinder with the piston up is not big to start with, so a little fluid will raise the compression value to an absurd level.
Spark plugs out......crank engine......if it does not crank with the spark plugs out.....then you have another problem to solve.
If it does....then you just need to make sure that there is not fluid inside the cylinders.
The cranking with the plugs out should ventilate them.....and carb cleaner/starting fluid are fluids that evaporate.
Don't burn out the starter going crazy with the cranking.....a little will do her.

Also make SURE that you get the plug wires to the correct plugs........I have experience with plug wires going to the wrong plugs.......so I can save you time and tell you that the engine will not work correctly with the wires going to the wrong plugs.

.............

I did the plenum bolt tightening thing in 4 steps, as yesterday I tried re-using a bolt, and it broke off into the plenum. I used a drill to make it rotate and got it out.

I also, after putting in the rocker arm, rotated the engine to get some of the carb cleaner out, per step 57 here
https://sites.google.com/site/fordf150p0171p0174fix/P0171P0174-Fix/page2

It cranked over, however, I did not have an vacuum tube connected back driver side, then I tried again. Will not rotate, but starter is working.

I used 3.5 cans of carb cleaner. Should I attempt to take off the tire, and rotate the engine again?



"Plenum bolts"? Are these the "colored" bolts that hold the plastic intake "spacer" to the aluminum lower intake? If so, they require less than 10 ft lbs ... less torque than I can twist on a screwdriver. Four steps?

I hope ALL the spark plugs were out when the engine was rotated for the first time. Trying to compress a liquid with a piston can lead to bent/broken piston rods.

3.5 cans of carb cleaner is a lot of carb cleaner.

"Plenum bolts"? Are these the "colored" bolts that hold the plastic intake "spacer" to the aluminum lower intake? If so, they require less than 10 ft lbs ... less torque than I can twist on a screwdriver. Four steps?

I hope ALL the spark plugs were out when the engine was rotated for the first time. Trying to compress a liquid with a piston can lead to bent/broken piston rods.

3.5 cans of carb cleaner is a lot of carb cleaner.


Yes it is. But the butterfly valves were black, and the #1 cylinder had so much on it it was not allowing it to close.

I did crank it 4 times, like I did to get the valve compression measurement. What the problem was, was two vacuum lines not connected, one being the brake master cylinder connector, but the master connector to the coil pack was disconnected. Tomorrow I will attempt to pull it out, replace the rubber lining, and then put it back in, and use a zip tie to hold it down.

The car works just fine! No noise, nothing!

We had two other problems. First, I had a long insulin reaction, and while testing the car, lost the keys to the locking gas cap. We replaced that. Then, step-kid had not tightened two of the bolts on the left hand front tire. He also had been talking to hsi brother/real Dad, and both had told him not to listen to us, and we read him the riot act-the brother had gotten into trouble wih the marines for that one time already, and the Father has to go thru the mother to speak to him, and has threatened her, so he's SOL about what happens. Mother legally decides who eh talks to, even Dad, and when, and she decides who makes in loco parentis decisions, so after the confrontation, and my removing the old cap thru destruction, he "found" them.

The car runs perfectly, no noise, nothing.

Thanks for the advice, and help, especially those you you who kept asking me to check the rear valve cover. I will not allow myself to trust too much or be intimidated into checking things like that in the future by anyone!

It's silent, accelerates better than it ever has.

I did run into one problem-the left door will not move, and I had jury-rigged a new hinge, and fixed that today. My neighbor helped yank out the cable, as it was stuck. I do not know if that damaged the door drive assembly motor/engine or not. I did open it up, and the neighbor suggested it may be wrapped up incorrectly around the rollers, which it definitely was! I was able to disassemble it, but now am stuck as to which of the rollers goes in first, and how the two blue springs which form the assembly on both sides fit back together. I was able to strip the protective rubber coating off of beginning of the cable, but would like to ask if any of you have access to AllData or Chilton's cutaway of the " power door drive assembly actuator", so I can see it and do it. I can get it tomorrow, but would like to have my last crack at the car all figured out before I get out, re-assemble all the torx bits and such in the morning.

Last night, I did a load of wash, dried 3, washed dishes, and replaced the deadbolt and handle lock assembly on the house, getting to bed by about 4 a.m. Can anyone get the cut away of the engine assembly for the cables on the power doors? I have TSB 04-2-3-1, but it lacks a cut away. I hoped the motor's not stripped, but you can hear the electricity hit or charge the engine, it just does not move!

Thanks again, and I'd also like to offer anyone a beer sometime, if you are in Northern New Mexico!

;)

Congrats on getting engine running well!!

.....thanks just the same, but I ain't never going thru NM again!

Glad you got the engine running to its potential.

If you plan to hang onto this vehicle, I advise that you subscribe to Alldata for your vehicle.
It IS worth it....
Sadly, my subscription for the 1996 year is not going to be of any help for the left side power door.
The introduced the left side sliding door starting in 1999.......no left sliding door on 1995 through 1998 Windstar.
Add to that.....what I have for the right side door.....could have been changed by your year......in addition to one having to mentally turn it around.

I would recommend searching this in this room on "power sliding door".....there have been a LOT of posts on them over the years........though I have not really paid much attention to them because my '96 did not have the power sliding door option........
My 2003 Toyota Sienna constanly confuses me because it has a power sliding door on the right (passenger side) and a manual sliding door on the left side.
When I take my youth group on an outing....I often disable the power door so that they are BOTH manual......much less confusion for the passengers.

I would like to note that one should NOT post diagrams from any manual on here.....as it is a violation of copyright laws.
I hate to say it....because I often see good information in diagrams....but the copyright owners can take legal action.....which could cause us to loose this free exchange of information place.
Don't shoot the messager.....I'm only a volunteer moderator for this room.....I don't own this site or any of the said copyrights, so I cannot give any permissions.
Oh....and YES.....the Sienna forums have lots of posts about power door problems also.

Logging on today and seeing that the said vehicle is up and running makes my day.
Nice job!!!!

Bad oil.sludge buildup resoline will fix but you need to clean engine flush and change oil .hydrolic lifter auto adjust gunk gets packed in making it ting and ban