No room for a turbo??

[tha_new_guy]

THIS SETUP WAS DONE ON A CAMARO.







I don't know if you guys have seen these pictures, but it seems like an interesting setup to me. Can someone list the pros/cons? Besides the fact that a turbo is quite the expensive skid plate.... .

[omicron]

What if it floods, and your driving through all that. Also what if your car bottom'd out, it would do some serious damage. Not to mention having the turbo way back there, you will have some bad lag from the turbo. Does it even get that much air flow in that spot?

[Neutrino]

the efficiency of that setup must be extremelly bad...the gasses are way to slow and cold back there(compared to the when they exit)...and as omicron said the lag should be huge

[Polygon]

Also, imagine hitting a puddle of cold water. The turbo's impeller spins at 100,000 plus RPMs. You can imagine they get pretty hot. That nice cold water will crack that turbo housing like glass.

That is a horrible placement for a turbo. I would never put one there.

[tha_new_guy]

You guys are missing the point. This guy is a street-racer who hustles people.

Owner: "Yeah man, it's a V6 camaro..wanna go for 5grand?"
Ricer: "Hah, what a POS, yeah, i'll be happy to take your money, just lemme look under the hood."
Owner: "OK"
Ricer: "Looks pretty stock to me, lets go."

Owner: VROOOOM, PSSSHHH...."I win"

Who cares about lag and whatnot, it's still faster then a stock version, and it won't be a daily driver.





-total plagiarism...

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by tha_new_guy

You guys are missing the point. This guy is a street-racer who hustles people.

Owner: "Yeah man, it's a V6 camaro..wanna go for 5grand?"
Ricer: "Hah, what a POS, yeah, i'll be happy to take your money, just lemme look under the hood."
Owner: "OK"
Ricer: "Looks pretty stock to me, lets go."

Owner: VROOOOM, PSSSHHH...."I win"

Who cares about lag and whatnot, it's still faster then a stock version, and it won't be a daily driver.





-total plagiarism...

ok i get what you are saying but even then if a guy looks under the hood he would have to be a moron not to notice something wrong....

first there would be too much piping and the intake would not be visible (this asuming there is no intercooler) an inter would give you away pretty fast....

and that car without an intercooler would not be able to push enough psi to be a real monster.....so couple only a few psi + very ineficient turbo + v6 camaro = a not very fast car


sorry for my skepticism but this is how i see the setup.....and polygon is right hit a pudle of water and the turbo will crack in a sec (thanks for pointing that out poly I completelly missed it)

[SaabJohan]

Have seen those pictures before, that setup is worthless. A turbocharger needs hot gases and exhaust pulses to the turbine, this will not be the case here. It will also take very long to pressurise the exhaust as well as the intake. This is a good example how not to do. There are however good setups which have had the turbo under the car, but then it was placed close to the engine.

Water will not cause the turbo to crack, water has always been used for cooling in the steel industry.

[Polygon]

Originally Posted by SaabJohan

Water will not cause the turbo to crack, water has always been used for cooling in the steel industry.

You can crack a hot engine block or cylinder head by pouring cold water on it, the turbo housing isn't any different. I am sure that they don't use cold water to cool the steel. I am sure the water is above room temp but still a lot cooler than the hot steel but not cold enough to crack it. Also, keep in mind that, that is solid steel not hollow like a turbo or with hollow openings like a cylinder head or engine block.

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by SaabJohan

Have seen those pictures before, that setup is worthless. A turbocharger needs hot gases and exhaust pulses to the turbine, this will not be the case here. It will also take very long to pressurise the exhaust as well as the intake. This is a good example how not to do. There are however good setups which have had the turbo under the car, but then it was placed close to the engine.

Water will not cause the turbo to crack, water has always been used for cooling in the steel industry.

i completelly agree with you on the turbo placement....its a NO NO



but about the cooling with water...yes it has been used in the steel industry but mainly for one piece parts...in a turbo you'll have at least a few different alloys with very different compresion(can't think of the proper word right now) rates and with such low tolerances between then the turbo will most likelly snap

[SaabJohan]

Water has been used to cool steel since the times the smiths make swords and cooled them in water to make them harder. You can simply take out a piece of metal from a 800 degree C oven and cool them in cold water, I have done this myself and the temperature of the metal drops at once without cracking. It will affect the structure and how the metal is composed but it will not make it crack.

There are cars that can run with their engines under water, the engines will not crack, and a believe that at least a few of these cars have turbocharging.

Even if you completely submerge a whole turbocharger it will stay hotter than the water since we add heat to it all the time (we feed the turbocharger with more energy than we get out from the crankshaft). A turbocharger has no rotating parts that are in contact (except the bearings in a ball bearing turbo), and as for the compressor the cooling will only do good.

[Polygon]

The problem is that the temp drop is so sudden that it will cause it to crack. It is simple physics. Heat causes expansion and cold causes contraction. If you were to go out on a really cold day with a bucket of hot water and throw it on a window it would shatter. It will work the same way with an engine block, head, and even a turbo charger. I would also like reiterate what Neutrino said in his last post.

[454Casull]

Originally Posted by Polygon

The problem is that the temp drop is so sudden that it will cause it to crack. It is simple physics. Heat causes expansion and cold causes contraction. If you were to go out on a really cold day with a bucket of hot water and throw it on a window it would shatter. It will work the same way with an engine block, head, and even a turbo charger. I would also like reiterate what Neutrino said in his last post.

Glass has very low thermal shock resistance. Steel has a higher thermal shock resistance, and like SaabJohn said, swords have had quenching in salt baths in their making for centuries.

[Polygon]

I understand that, it was a simple example of physics. You guys are talking about solid steel while a turbo is not. It is hollow and I am sure much more brittle than steel. It is the same for engine blocks and cylinder heads. Sudden contact with cold water can cause them to crack.

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by SaabJohan

Water has been used to cool steel since the times the smiths make swords and cooled them in water to make them harder. You can simply take out a piece of metal from a 800 degree C oven and cool them in cold water, I have done this myself and the temperature of the metal drops at once without cracking. It will affect the structure and how the metal is composed but it will not make it crack.

again I agree with what you said i know how fast cooling can actually improve the strenght of the steel(it has been used to forge swords for centuries)

but look at my earlier post again i mentioned a turbo is made out of several parts put togheter...from different aloys with different expansion and contraction rates....this will cause the metals to push against each other and potentially crack

[FYRHWK1]

Originally Posted by Polygon

I understand that, it was a simple example of physics. You guys are talking about solid steel while a turbo is not. It is hollow and I am sure much more brittle than steel. It is the same for engine blocks and cylinder heads. Sudden contact with cold water can cause them to crack.

What about a lemans car that runs in the rain? The first big uddle it hits will sent water flying all over the block, transmission case and everything else, but they don't crack. You're right about thermal shock, but steel is very resilient, tempering a metal is the same process, cooling it very quickly in order to align the molecules more closely together.

You would have to drop the temperature very quickly to damage a steel engine block or turbo, water can absorb alot of heat, but it wouldn't absorb enough to cause enough shock to crack it. A turbine blade red hot doused in water wouldn't even crack, they do very similar things with cutlery made of less quality metal when they temper them, you would have ot cool it with some kind of liquified gas, oxygen or something like it.