In my school there are alot of kids who thimk that imports are a waste of time and money, they all have gas guzzling, heavy muscle cars i can't wait to drop a new engine and kick all there asses and prove them that imports are good cars!:smoka:

That is so true...my friends prelude kills mustang cobras all the time:sun:

Sure!

Muscle cars are gas hogs and are expensive to keep up imports if tuned and suped up can kick any street muscle cars ass.:flipa:

Now, look. I am not ripping on imports, there are a lot of imports that I like. But the truth is, a good muscle car will mow you down. Sure tune the hell out of your Honda and it will beat a muscle car, but tune the hell out of the muscle car as well, and say bye bye. Trust me, I have tuned both and raced both.

You do have a point, if you do tune muscle cars they will definitly win. one thing that i think is unfair is that if you put an Exhaust on a import and you get at most 10hp if you are lucky but for muscle cars you put on an exhaust and you get 50hp, thats on good thing about muscle cars. but they are gas hogs:smoka:

The reason you get more bang with the exaust is because those engines suck and blow better than a little four banger. :D

As for the gas, doesn't bother me too much as I only take my muscle cars out on the weekends.

But the fact of the matter is, they don't make big heavy musclecars anymore. Their handling is shitty. They are like boats, and yeah, they can do burnouts pretty easy but driving around is cumbersome. My all time favorite car was a 1970 Dodge Challenger with a 440 6-pack. 6 barrels, can you believe that?!?! You hit the gas once, and you're at ahalf a tank. I've driven a Challenger, and I've also driven a 1976 trans AM, and no joke, I'd take my civic over those two anyday... well, maybe not the trans am. hehe. I loved that car.

A kid in my school has a gto 402 and he thinks that no import can beeat him, same with a kid who has a 350 camaro they don't know how good imports are because you can have them as daily drivers and still have alot of power and good control!!

The reason why Exhuast can gain 30hp on Domestic car is because of Displacement.

Import doesn't really mean gas saver and Domestic doesn't mean gas guzzler. That was true 15 years ago but not anymore now.

And you can always improve handling.

Originally posted by Polygon
And you can always improve handling.

Yes you could with aftermarket parts. However the main part of how car handles is the chassis. If you have a soft chassis doesn't matter how big anti-roll bar you put in the car still have it's limits for improvment. You need a solid chassis to work with or else you be down big time.

Originally posted by F20C


Yes you could with aftermarket parts. However the main part of how car handles is the chassis. If you have a soft chassis doesn't matter how big anti-roll bar you put in the car still have it's limits for improvment. You need a solid chassis to work with or else you be down big time.

True, unfortunatly true.

look. i love imports, and i hate domestics. but realize that YOU WILL LOSE to a Z28 '95+ period. it really doesn't matter what kind of engine you have.

Sup people Honda's are the most preffered cars to race so i dunt know about those US cars.
Now this is my ride!

I won't

lilguyk9, that is impressive to look at! What engine is that and what kind of numbers are you running!?:eek:

However, the 99+ stang gt is the fastest production mustang ever bosting a 1/4 mile timeslip of just over 14 seconds. Thats really not bad for a 21,000 dollar car. True, they don't handle great, for a performance car anyway (.84 compared to a 32,000 dallar camero ss that only gets .85 on the skidpad). They handle better than a stock civic (not to bash on civics though caus I love them and am about to buy one) and have great potential especially with companies out there like Steeda.
In my opinion, the mustang cobra (01 model only) is one of the best bang for the buck cars out there (along with the corvett zo6) bosting independent suspension and putting out 320 horsies at the crank. Now to me, thats pretty damn good for a baseline price of only 28,000.
One of my favorite cars right now is the vett zo6. I can't remember exactly but the horsepower is about 365. What is really impressive about it though is that it gets right under a 1.0g on the skidpad. Thats really impressive given the 50,000 dollar pricetag.

Please don't be ignorant and educate yourselves. American cars suck...my ass they do.

O, and one more thing, they sound soooo much better than imports (with the exception of the WRX :-).

Originally posted by lilguyK9
Sup people Honda's are the most preffered cars to race so i dunt know about those US cars.
Now this is my ride!

??? I dont even race other import cars unless they are a Supra, 300ZX, RX7 or an NSX. But there are pleanty of Stangs, LS1, Vettes and Vipers that can and do hand me my ass. Hondas and accuras aren't worth the time since there are so few fast ones out there. Its like one in 20,000 that actually has any mods and probably one in 75000 that is actually fast.

Honda prefered for racing? Sorry dude, but thats just stupid. Sure there are fast ass hondas out there, but they are few and far between and hardly the preferred car to race in.

well I pick up this legendary JDM B16A in Montreal. And rite now it runs with impressive results of 152.4 hp and 107.7 ft-lbs torque :devil:

I also did a nitro instalation which is workin great.

what IS the best car to race?
I just upgraded my honda and it can pull 152 hps.

Originally posted by lilguyK9
what IS the best car to race?
I just upgraded my honda and it can pull 152 hps.

That depends on the race at hand. Its hard to beat the VR4 in a stop light to stop light race. With 320hp stock and AWD it launches with the best on the planet. For highway speeds a LS1 (C5 Vette, Camero SS or Trans Am WS6) can be king of the hill.

I dont this to degenerate into the tired arguement of this mod vs that mod on different cars. Any car can be made to go fast, but I only consider cars that you dont have to ask yourself if they are fast. You just know it by the model.

well. it all depends. a 3kgt is a hella fast car. but it's not nimble. at all. a civic, with, say, a b18c5 (type r) is a nimble little bastard, but for straightline stuff, from a stop a vr-4 kinda rocks all. i wanna see a vr-4 with turbo intakes vs a skyline.

:confused:

why are we even having this conversation???

the whole import vs. domestic debate is pointless.

it doesn't matter who is better, or what is better.

all that matters is WHAT you choose to do with WHAT you have.

It is the tuner or owner that makes a car dope, not the nation or stereotypes that surround it.

;)

SORRY, i had to sound like a jackass to get my point across.
BUT people who think their Tempos can take me are str8 mangled.

NOW THIS IS AN IMPORT!!!!

:rolleyes:

OK...you claim that that is your car...on both this thread and the 'show your car' thread. That is not your car. The engine in the picture is not a B16a, those are not NOS mountings, IT HAS A FUZZY F*CKING STEERING WHEEL FOR GOD'S SAKE!!! [refer to page 4 of other thread]

the person who owns that car does NOT kick out an 'impressive' 152hp...they kick out well over 200 given the work done to the engine; let alone the additional boost coming from the ?alcohol? system in the ?trunk?:confused:

either way both the real owner of the car and yourself have made some very bad descisions; he in real life, and you on this board.

if you dont know shit about cars, and/or are 16 and drive your moms DX 10mph over the limit and can barely compose a correct sentence to post....that's fine, we're still down....

but dont set yourself up for this criticism. if you are like me, and dont have a pic of your car scanned...then live with it, and dont post someone else's ride.

ULTRA SELF-RIGHTEOUSLY YOURS,
The Fastcode


:smoker2:

2000Si/Black/Vortech SCS/Volk Wheels/Nitto 555s/ClutchMasters Stage4/Apexi VTEC AFC and Boost controller/Apexi Tach/Skunk2 Susp./PIAA bulbs and fogs [G5]/Altezza REAL carbon fiber-housed tail lights/NOT clear corners/AEM fuel rails/Apexi N1 cat-back/DC headers/DC strut braces/Koni shocks/MOMO steering wheel/Tenzo R race-weighted shifter/1000w Rockford Fosgate system w MP3 head/your momma in the motherf*kin' trunk!

289 hp - 208 ft/lbs - 11.203

BLAH BLAH BLAH!! IM DONE!!

Originally posted by VortechCivicSTL
:rolleyes:

OK...you claim that that is your car...on both this thread and the 'show your car' thread. That is not your car. The engine in the picture is not a B16a, those are not NOS mountings, IT HAS A FUZZY F*CKING STEERING WHEEL FOR GOD'S SAKE!!! [refer to page 4 of other thread]

the person who owns that car does NOT kick out an 'impressive' 152hp...they kick out well over 200 given the work done to the engine; let alone the additional boost coming from the ?alcohol? system in the ?trunk?:confused:

either way both the real owner of the car and yourself have made some very bad descisions; he in real life, and you on this board.

if you dont know shit about cars, and/or are 16 and drive your moms DX 10mph over the limit and can barely compose a correct sentence to post....that's fine, we're still down....

but dont set yourself up for this criticism. if you are like me, and dont have a pic of your car scanned...then live with it, and dont post someone else's ride.

ULTRA SELF-RIGHTEOUSLY YOURS,
The Fastcode


Hey dude, I agree. I have seen many people on Instant Messanger claiming to have these full blown street cars. They show me a pic that I have seen on many sites and I think, well it could be there car. So then I just ask them a few easy questions about their car and they blow it. They don't have a clue what they are talking about. BTW, those two "nitrous bottles" in his trunk look like hydrolic cylinders to me.

Now, I'm only 15 turning 16 January 4th and I don't bullshit about cars that I own online. I tell everyone that I only have my permit and I still have to drive with my parents. But LILGUYK9, like VortechCivicSTL said, it's cool if you don't know stuff about cars, just don't bullshit.

Amen to that. That guy has been going around all the fourms swearing that, that hooked up accord is actually his. He even tryed to convince people that it was a modifyed civic :rolleyes: How stupid can he be. Then he goes and proclaims he put a 6 speed manual transmission in there and is dumb enough to show a pic and it is nothing more then an automatic tranny with modifide gear selector and a shift boot to make it seem as if it were manual. This dude obviusly know jack about his fantasy car or any car in general. He sounds like some lil kid that rides around town on his bike with the coke can on the back tire to sound like a motorcycle, nicely accompanyed by the honda sign and vtec stickers becuase he can afford a real car. People like him must enjoy makin there selves look like asses, cause all they are, are wannabe's who got nuttin :flipa: :finger:

haha...I should bastardize this lil bish and his posts, faker:lol2:

as for the Import vs. fast imports vs. Domestics

who the fuck cares...seriously...a civic is a fucking econobox, gas saving, low insurance payment, torqueless wonder of a car

a LS1 is a muscle car, all out I will kick your ass, rear wheel drive, high insurance payment vehicular mode of transportation

I can't afford payments on an LS1, I can however afford insurance on a $2000 70hp (:flipa:) Civic CX...as for which is faster, racing in a straight line means nothing to me, racing on an oval means shit to me, racing on a road coarse is where the real drivers come to play is good for me.....although I do none of the above, I enjoy having a car that handles like a go cart and when I want to open it up, it goes as fast as I need it to go, gets 30mpg, and I pay a grand total of $160 a month on it including gas, insurance, and payments.

Hondas are slow. Yes even the S2K and NSX (unless it happens to be equipped with some GruppeM parts).

Domestic V8s are fast. Bottom line. You can't argue with RWD and displacement.

If you are about straight line, stop light to stop light, punch-it-at-65-on-the-highway kinda racing, a Honda is not for you. Granted, there are a few fast street Hondas out there, but they're few and far between.

Originally posted by delsolguy
Hondas are slow. Yes even the S2K and NSX (unless it happens to be equipped with some GruppeM parts).

Domestic V8s are fast. Bottom line. You can't argue with RWD and displacement.

If you are about straight line, stop light to stop light, punch-it-at-65-on-the-highway kinda racing, a Honda is not for you. Granted, there are a few fast street Hondas out there, but they're few and far between.

THANK YOU MAN!!!! You beat me to it, but it seems like you have taken my V8 feelings to heart.

I may moderate the civic forum, and I may drive a civic, but I know deep down that I'd rather have a TransAm or Mustang just because they are cheap to buy for the power, and get mass gains from mods instead of a little fart of 5hp.

Until you have your B16, B18, D16, whatever turbo'd at near 20psi and NOS shot, you will fail to impress 95% of people on the road. Bottom line, Honda's are not for racing. They are like the training wheels on a bicycle, they only lead the way to bigger and better things.

Sorry if anyone is offended, but just do what I did. Study the numbers, read the sites, and quit stereotyping!

4 cyl cars are only good for beginners and people with no money. With the exception of a few 4 bangers, like those 4 cyl Supras, that is all they are worth. When I got my civic, I was a beginner with no money. And I went through my "rice stage", like most everyone does, then I graduated to my "all performance stage". Now, I'm at my "why keep pouring money into a car that will most likely never go fast stage". Now, all I want is a '76 Tans AM, or a 70 Dodge Challenger with a 440 six pack. But, since I can't afford it, I guess I'll stick with my Honda. Don't get me wrong, I like my car. It's really reliable, and gets amazing gas mileage... and girls think it's cute (but we'll leave that one out)... Right now, I'm just saving up for my Escalade. :)

How about a Saleen mustang being beat your lil prelude b16b bomber:bandit:

Originally posted by Swonder67
Right now, I'm just saving up for my Escalade. :)

wait for the twin turbo 540bhp Escalade due in 2003! :D

Are you mad?? What´s up with you comparing Mustangs & Camaros with Civic econoboxes? Civic with Corollas, Sentras and Jettas please. :p

heh i always thought honda's were slow, esp the civic. well thats why if you want to get a REAL 4 cylinder car. you gotta get the 240sx's. causey ou can do a SR20DET swap and that will be the closest to a true JDM car in this damn country. and doin 14 sec quarter miles is not that slow, and since its turbo, upgrades such as boost controllers or a better intercooler would make a pretty big gain. see the only real fast 4 cylinder or any japanese cars in general are cars with turbo. and v-tec simply don't cut it cuse it cuts down the torque to almost nothing and its almost impossible to keep it in full power in v-tech mode unless you drive it like ya stole it and it still will get out of the powerband if your not careful when shifting since its sooo freakin small~!!! and it v-tech kicks in wwaaaay too late. like 5700rpm late.

and usually people tend to compare cars of the same class. not a car thats 2 classes below. if you want to compare "REAL" japanese cars, bring on the Lancer Evo's, the Skyline GT-R's, the Supra TT, the RX-7's, the WRX STi's, and the NSX. see those are the japanese's big boys. and can stand up to american muscle cars, even the almighty Z06. migh tnot beat it but it will give it a run for its money. in fact the GT-R will give it a very good run for tis money.

Originally posted by Darkwing
lilguyk9, that is impressive to look at! What engine is that and what kind of numbers are you running!?:eek:

Hey Darkwing, is that a Ferrari F355 behind your car? If not, what is it?

Originally posted by TatII
and usually people tend to compare cars of the same class. not a car thats 2 classes below. if you want to compare "REAL" japanese cars, bring on the Lancer Evo's, the Skyline GT-R's, the Supra TT, the RX-7's, the WRX STi's, and the NSX. see those are the japanese's big boys. and can stand up to american muscle cars, even the almighty Z06. migh tnot beat it but it will give it a run for its money. in fact the GT-R will give it a very good run for tis money.

Well said. :D

Originally posted by VortechCivicSTL
:rolleyes:

OK...you claim that that is your car...on both this thread and the 'show your car' thread. That is not your car. The engine in the picture is not a B16a, those are not NOS mountings, IT HAS A FUZZY F*CKING STEERING WHEEL FOR GOD'S SAKE!!! [refer to page 4 of other thread]

the person who owns that car does NOT kick out an 'impressive' 152hp...they kick out well over 200 given the work done to the engine; let alone the additional boost coming from the ?alcohol? system in the ?trunk?:confused:

either way both the real owner of the car and yourself have made some very bad descisions; he in real life, and you on this board.

if you dont know shit about cars, and/or are 16 and drive your moms DX 10mph over the limit and can barely compose a correct sentence to post....that's fine, we're still down....

but dont set yourself up for this criticism. if you are like me, and dont have a pic of your car scanned...then live with it, and dont post someone else's ride.

ULTRA SELF-RIGHTEOUSLY YOURS,
The Fastcode


:smoker2:

2000Si/Black/Vortech SCS/Volk Wheels/Nitto 555s/ClutchMasters Stage4/Apexi VTEC AFC and Boost controller/Apexi Tach/Skunk2 Susp./PIAA bulbs and fogs [G5]/Altezza REAL carbon fiber-housed tail lights/NOT clear corners/AEM fuel rails/Apexi N1 cat-back/DC headers/DC strut braces/Koni shocks/MOMO steering wheel/Tenzo R race-weighted shifter/1000w Rockford Fosgate system w MP3 head/your momma in the motherf*kin' trunk!

289 hp - 208 ft/lbs - 11.203

BLAH BLAH BLAH!! IM DONE!!

JAJAJAA:D :D :) :D :) :D JAJA
---driving her mom´s Accord DX at 10mph! How funny all that was!

Originally posted by TatII
heh i always thought honda's were slow, esp the civic. well thats why if you want to get a REAL 4 cylinder car. you gotta get the 240sx's. causey ou can do a SR20DET swap and that will be the closest to a true JDM car in this damn country. and doin 14 sec quarter miles is not that slow, and since its turbo, upgrades such as boost controllers or a better intercooler would make a pretty big gain. see the only real fast 4 cylinder or any japanese cars in general are cars with turbo. and v-tec simply don't cut it cuse it cuts down the torque to almost nothing and its almost impossible to keep it in full power in v-tech mode unless you drive it like ya stole it and it still will get out of the powerband if your not careful when shifting since its sooo freakin small~!!! and it v-tech kicks in wwaaaay too late. like 5700rpm late.

Couple of things here man.

—It's "VTEC"
—The VTEC doesn't cut down the torque. The size of the engine does.
—VTEC allows for high-rpm power. Hence the 7800+ redline.
—How will swapping in a J-Spec engine make your car "closest to a true JDM car"? I can do that too, y'know.



CivSiGuy: I haven't "seen the light" for domestic V8s yet. However, after my Honda, I want a Supra.

Originally posted by b16b bomber
That is so true...my friends prelude kills mustang cobras all the time:sun:


Puuulllleeeeaaaassse!!

Originally posted by blacksnake98



Puuulllleeeeaaaassse!!

Thats what I was thinking.

Ditto.

I have no idea how this works.

I think it's something like this:

Civic owner reads of 9 second Civic in Super Street.

Civic owner identifies strongly with fast Civic.

Figures if it looks the same, it is the same, therefore all Civics are fast.

If all Civics are fast, and a Prelude is faster than a Civic, therefore nothing can beat a Prelude.

Or something like that...

I enjoyed being on the receiving end the other day of an explanation of how this guy's unmodified 1.6 litre '89 Civic Si had so much more "top end" than my 2.0 litre cammed out SR20DE.

Must be the Honda Fairy dust in the air...

Thanks for the backup gentlemen...and spnx, I believe you have hit the nail on the head.

Sure, no prob.

LOL, you can almost hear the rusty gears tuning in their noodle.

well i do realize that it was spelled v-tec after i posted it, but i didn't expect people to nit pick to me about it. anyways. even if you do a B16A swap on a civic, its still not goin to be fast. thats all i'm saying. sure it can also be considered a true JDM conversion. but its one thats not that fast, unless you make some kind of hybrid like a B18c in a 89 CRX. then you can do 14 sec quarter miles. all i'm sayin is that, i'm sick of people sayin v-tec is god. i mean sure honda came up with it first ( i think) but alot of other companies can do the same trick with their valve timing. they just don't advertise it and make it sooo known and put stickers on it like how honda does. you know?

First of all, Civics kick ass stock or decked out.

Second, muscle cars don't suck. Real muscle cars that is, like the Pontiac GTO, the first and last REAL musclecar.

Originally posted by TatII
heh i always thought honda's were slow, esp the civic. well thats why if you want to get a REAL 4 cylinder car. you gotta get the 240sx's. causey ou can do a SR20DET swap and that will be the closest to a true JDM car in this damn country. and doin 14 sec quarter miles is not that slow, and since its turbo, upgrades such as boost controllers or a better intercooler would make a pretty big gain. see the only real fast 4 cylinder or any japanese cars in general are cars with turbo. and v-tec simply don't cut it cuse it cuts down the torque to almost nothing and its almost impossible to keep it in full power in v-tech mode unless you drive it like ya stole it and it still will get out of the powerband if your not careful when shifting since its sooo freakin small~!!! and it v-tech kicks in wwaaaay too late. like 5700rpm late.

ok Mr KnowItAll..:rolleyes:
I guess u know crap about cars in Japan..
let me give u few points of tutorial..
who da hell said..if a 4 cyl car isn't turbo..then it isn't a real 4cyl car?..
your talking as if u driven all Honda vtec cars and know that..they come in late and are real slow..hell yea..they're not fast at straight lines..sicne the cars WERE NEVER made for straight line racing...the reason why their power kick in so late unlike others..which lose power at around 7000rpm+..is cause Hondas as FF cars..were made for track racing..because every corner u turn..u usually down shft to a higher rpm and then go hard from there...and because of Honda's vtec design to have more power at higher rpm, it is coz afetr each turn..u get hat power u need to accelerate away from each corner at high rpm's...and this is the advantage of honda vtec cars..especially the Type-R's..which is one of the best FF handlign cars..
amd also coz of this design..u could also save more petrol..and also could ahve the power u need..because when ur at low rpm..and ur drving normally..u coudl save a lot of fuel..but also when u need o overtake someone etc..u could ahev the power too..since u just need to pull to a higher rpm..and now..please get my point..do some FREAKING RESERACH BEFORE U OPEN UR MOUTH...vtec engages aroudn 4500rpm-5000rpm..and as the car pulls to a higher rpm...the torque DOES NOT cut down..and same goes with power...coz if the torque cuts down..then there is no point of vtec being a high rpm engine...and hell...which cars does not need to be driven hard to be fast?!

and don't get me wrong..i love SR20DET's...as well as RB26DETT..
but u have to figure out the difference and advantages between a turbo and a n/a vehicle...not just go otu saying blah blah..turbo's are the real 4cyl engines and that hvtec that don't ahve turbos are slow and blah blah...coz if u argue with prof...there could never be a winner..coz these 2 engines are made for different purposes and uses...Honda vtec's aren't slow for in there category...try comparing them to other cars in the same category with no turbo..and same good fuel comsumption..and see which n/a car will come out the best..

if u still think that i have made no point to u and that vtec still loses torque coz of powerband or whatever u were tlaking about..then reply me..coz i don't mind making u understand what the purpose of vtec is..since u seem to know nothing..and of coz..by what ur saying..u have never driven any ...coz i'm sure nobody in here that driven one would think that it loses torque ant high rpm and that vtec kicks in at 5700rpm..

well you do have a point there about how when you down shift that it rpm jumps up and how it keeps it in v tec mode. i never thought of it as that way, but since drag seems to be the biggest thing in this country i completely forgot about circuit racing. sooo it was my fault on that one. and yes you have another point for sayin that you can't really compare n/a cars to forced induction cars. and yes turbo cars suck in extremely hot weathers. that is when the NSX will beat pretty much most turbo charged cars. but still its just that i have this thing against honda's now becuase everyone sweats them, esp the ricers who knows absolutely nothing and i mean nothing~! about cars. that is what gets me all angry. i don't mean to diss out on honda's or anything, but i hope you feel me. sooo my bad about gettin all carried away. i was just tryin to express myself:(

oh yeah and another thing, i never said that v-tec cuts down torque. what i meant was how v-tec doens't really give that much of a torque boost.

Originally posted by LiuBei
First of all, Civics kick ass stock or decked out.

Second, muscle cars don't suck. Real muscle cars that is, like the Pontiac GTO, the first and last REAL musclecar.

I would have to VERY much dissagree. Civics when they are stock are simply gas conservative cars. You can beat one in a lot of other stock cars with similarly sized engines.

Civics were never made to be excessivley fast. I think they kicks ass because: 1. Good Price 2. Great Gas mi 3. Rock Solid Reliability 4. overall great quality of the car

Simply said, there are more than a few ways to make any car faster, Civics have proven this time and time again. If you want to make a Civic fast go right ahead, I can care less, I like mine the way it is.

What a bunch of mindless crap. To say that the Acura Integra or the Honda Civic is designed to perform well on the track is just stupid. These vehicles are designed to perform well on the ROAD. For the average Joe or Josephine who's going to pick up the kids at school.
It is a real show of ignorance to think that your little 4-cyl VTEC engine with lots of chrome and lots of stuff painted red in a Accord/Prelude/Civic/Integra could out perform a small block 350 with even the slightest modifications, in a 1978 Camero Z-28. Yes, the Honda might perform better around curves, but when the hammer goes down and the 4-barrel opens up... the Honda's gonna look like just another grocery getter.
Taping a coffee can to your muffler doesn't mean you can outrun a Cobra. Putting a big a$$ ugly wing on the back of your Civic won't help you out-handle a Porche. Some of you guys are sooooo uninformed.:bloated:

Originally posted by TatII
oh yeah and another thing, i never said that v-tec cuts down torque. what i meant was how v-tec doens't really give that much of a torque boost.

well..vtec cars..as long as u keep the rpm over 5000rpm...ur engine is basically running under nearly it's max power..and i mean down shift as in..when u want to turn a corner..u have to slow down..right?..therfore..when u slow down to the speed that could handle the corner..u downshift to a lower gear..and pull the rpm higher and then turn out of the corner..normal circuit racing technique..
and yea i feel ya..my next car ain;'t gonna be a honda for sure..sine some honda ricers piss me off too much but also..i had enough if n/a..i'm getting a white lancer evo5 next..which none of u guys will have in u.s

and as for torque..after 5000rpm on a vtec motor..u get both a power and torque boost..and that a promise..coz that is why when a honda needs to overtake a car..they need to downshift to a higher rpm range..which si when power and torque comes out mosty to give the car a boost to the high rpm range...test drive one and realise how the engine works...it's pretty basic..nothing special about how a vtec works..it just gives u more power after 5000rpm till 7000-9000rpm..depending on how the car is tuned.

Yea, but what about some performance stickers? They add like 5hp:hehehe:

:greenchai

ic, maybe i'll try my friends crx with the B16A next time. that is if he lets me drive his baby that is. :smoka:

damn there is a lot of shit flying in here. You people do realize that this argument is pointless and futile. But I can not resist leaving you all with my own brand bias by saying Honda makes most of the best cars overall.

SIKB you are new but I already like you. Preach on teh good word.

Originally posted by SikB
damn there is a lot of shit flying in here. You people do realize that this argument is pointless and futile. But I can not resist leaving you all with my own brand bias by saying Honda makes most of the best cars overall.

Three cheers for broad overgeneralizations... :rolleyes:

COMPARING THESE TOO IS THE WORST......it goes on and on, notice any of these comparisons has like 100 replies and has been viewed 20,000 times

comparing after market cars has soo many sides.....and while comparing Muscle car and Import....find a domestic and race it with a SKYLINE....just cuz its not a 4 cylinder dont mean it aint a import.

Z28 aint shit compared to that =)

I think people need to stop comparing an import that costs $60k against a $30k domestic, or vis versa. People need to compare similar priced cars and stock, because as soon as you get into the "but with this it could be that" well it usually works out that way...

But, but, but with HAHAHA......yeah thats exactly why there is 20,000 replies to any comparison......but with 500shot of nos, I could have beet that Lamborghini in my GSR

Originally posted by TatII
and usually people tend to compare cars of the same class. not a car thats 2 classes below. if you want to compare "REAL" japanese cars, bring on the Lancer Evo's, the Skyline GT-R's, the Supra TT, the RX-7's, the WRX STi's, and the NSX. see those are the japanese's big boys. and can stand up to american muscle cars, even the almighty Z06. migh tnot beat it but it will give it a run for its money. in fact the GT-R will give it a very good run for tis money.

The cars are fast. Yes, extremely. But now you're comparing it to the Z06. 0 - 60 in 3.9 seconds, with a lateral acceleration of 1.0 g. This car beat out a 2002 Porsche 911 Turbo around the track by about .7 seconds. It didn't burn it, but you're talking Porsche here. o_O;

Now, if you get into modding the Skylines, the Supras, the RX-7s, etc. a modded Corvette would still destroy those cars. The Lingenfelter Corvette does the quarter in 9.524 @ 145.25 miles per hour, WITHOUT the aid of Nitrous Oxide. I know the top speed of a lesser Lingenfelter Corvette is 226 mph, but that car only gets 650 hp as compared to the 750 to the top rated Lingenfelter. It also does 0 - 150 in 14.90, 0 - 60 in around 3.40 seconds. All without the aid of nitrous.

As much as I agree with you on that one....a modded skyline and a modded z06 is 2 different things...the Skyline is a few classes above....you can have that thing in 1000hp range + have reliablity. Z06 is a cool car and all, but mod for mod a skyline owns it, stock for stock, Z06 is just a better bang for the buck

I am really beggining to HATE Skylines.

There, I said it. I feel much better now.

I second polygon, and i don't really know anything about skylines. To me they were never anything huge, but they are all i ever hear about, i'm getting sick of it. There are faster, and better cars out there than the skyline!

yeah as much of a skyline fan as i am. i do admit that there are alot of faster cars out there. but what i love about the skyline its is overall good ness, and its brutish looks, and how its pretty much the fastest car to come out of japan. it might not have the fastest top speed, or the fastest aceleration, but its a pefect blend of both and thats why it can pull up the fastest lap times. its always either this or the evo that are teh fastest cars in japan at the tracks.

I'll admit it is a nice car. BUT I get sick of all the praise they get. To just about everyone here they are the GOD of cars, and there are a lot of better cars that I would much rather drive. Gahhh, just hearing oh well the Skyline does this, oh and the Skyline is sooooo fast, oh and you can get 1000hp out of a Skyline.

I DON'T GIVE A RATS ASS WHAT THE SKYLINE DOES.

Ah, now I REALLY feel better. There are plenty of cars that can spank a Skyline. I just get tired af all the bloody hype.

THE SKYLINE KICKS ASSSSSSSS

I loved that car for years and it only got better with the R34....it is the sweetest car and RB26ETT is considered one of the best motors ever MADE.

Yes you can get 1,000hp out of a skyline, but after seeing videos of them racing in Japan there is no way its even close to being street drivable. They end up with so much torque and power over such a small power band they either bog off the line and go no where, or they run the entire 1/4 with all 4 tyres smoking. It is Impressive to watch of course.

Getting 1,000hp from an LS6 is much easier, and if worked to the same limit as the 1,000hp skyline's are you would be looking at getting over 2,000hp. Not street drivable of course. :D

But then your really comparing appels with oranges, a skyline will provide quite a differnt driving experiance to a Corvette, just like a Civic will provide a differnt driving experiance to a Comaro.

There are differnt cultures behind the designs of differnt cars, and they are often aimed at differnt market segments.
To me what makes a car great is not how much hp it has, or what its max lateral G's are, but how it feels when you drive it, how responsive the chassis is, how well the engine torque curve is matched with the gear ratios etc etc. All things that are often a matter of personal taste.

:cool:

Well the point I was making is, there is plenty of 1k HP Skylines in Japan.....I have never seen more then 2 or 3 1k + hp american cars.....and the reliability on them is awful to begin with. Once a Z06 has some miles on it, they start breakin down.

JBL85 do you know 1000+hp Skyline are built mostly for Dyno Machine only? They look good on paper but in real life they are hell to drive with.

Why the hell does everyone have to argue over this pointless shit. Now if you picked 2 exact cars, and compared them it would have a purpose, but this is way too open and general. No one can ever win, b/c domestics are better than imports sometimes, and imports are better than domestics sometimes. The more your argue the dumber you seem, b/c most of us have realized there will never be a winner in the debate, and you will change no one's opinion. It gets worse as you compare the highly modified, usually not street legal, cars that are a dime a dozen (the 1000+hp cars). It is so pointless, and i'm afriad you will never realize that. What is wrong, are you not able to accept that each side has its virtues, and pitfalls? How about we just stop argueing over this pointless crap?


Now if you want to compare a '71 chevelle SS against a stock supra TT, and the goal to figure out which is better on the street course (not dragging, not which has more hp or turque, or weighs less, or looks better, or whatever) then it may make sense to debate about, but even then people are going to like one car more than the other no matter which performs better, but at least you can try to narrow it down to just performance...*sigh*

CY this is car comparisons, thats why, we go off tangent and argue pointless points of why this is better and blah blah blah blah =)

Oh ya, i forgot this was in comparisons:) hehe. But my anger is more toward those arguements that spur up everyother topic in normal car discussions, about DOMESTIC VS. IMPORT....But anyways, i guess that is my $.02 on which is better:). Argue on my good fellows, hehe.

Debate is fine but unknowledgeable points brought up by people is not fine.

i think you can give credit to both domestic and import. it doesnt matter, as long as you have a car thats fast as shit and pleases you.

your GST pleases you....hehe, jk, but my Max suprised the guy when I beat him in it =). He thought I had NOS

I think the whole problem comes from not realizing what your cars really are. No matter what import you buy short of a VR-4, NSX, RX7, Supra etc.., you have bought an economical, sensible car, granted some have sportier intentions like Type R Integra. But don't think just cuz your econo car has got a lil extra zip your gonna be running with Camaro SS's and Mustang GT's cause it's not gonna happen. These cars are created and marketed for something totally different than you Civic or Integra. This doesn't mean that there is something wrong with your car there just different cars.
I never would claim my slightly modified stang would beat a Z06, that's just ignorant and disrespectful to Corvette owners and i would look like a liar. Next time you go spouting off about how your car would waste a Stang, Camaro stop yourself and think this... "Right now i sound like an annoying liar... Oh wait that's cuz I'am" Then when you begin to speak agian tell the truth and be respectful. If you have heavily modified your import that's cool too and talk shit if you think you can really back it up. But also remember you had to mod your car to beat that V-8. What if he modded his car?

GTSTANG, i agree with that whole-heartedly..very well said. oh yea. JBL 85, Max's are awesome..0-60 in 6.8-.9 is not bad at all. with mods there even better, i was VERY close to getting a 97 max.

GTSTANG see thats not always the case. cuase the newer nissan cars are designed to be performance comes first kinda cars. cuse the new 02 maxima's and altima's are about the same speed as a mustang gt. then then again, those are either nissan's flag ship cars, or near flag ship cars.

mastachi, its the auto, its 7.7, but its decent.

And to gtstang.....uhh riight thats why civics can smoke an 87 GT stang with a built motor and a turbo kit.....duh comparing non stock vs a stock car....your right look at the car its a civic.

and TatII is very right, the new nissan is japanese and its 1/4 is 14.2, and what is the american pos GT stang do it in, 14.0 with 1.1 more displacement. There is replacment for displacement, its called engineering =)

Originally posted by JBL85
mastachi, its the auto, its 7.7, but its decent.

And to gtstang.....uhh riight thats why civics can smoke an 87 GT stang with a built motor and a turbo kit.....duh comparing non stock vs a stock car....your right look at the car its a civic.

and TatII is very right, the new nissan is japanese and its 1/4 is 14.2, and what is the american pos GT stang do it in, 14.0 with 1.1 more displacement. There is replacment for displacement, its called engineering =)

I dunno what the first part is suppose to mean? As for the second

2002 Maxima SE 255hp 245 torque 3.5L
2002 Mustang GT 260hp 302 torque 4.6L
2002 Camaro SS 320hp 343 torque 5.7L

See those torque numbers... Torque is what makes your car accelerate
WOW!!!! Look at that the one with the most Displacement has the most torque hmmmm "THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT!!!!!"
But hey cheer up.... You got engineering!!!!!!!

Let me start off by saying Civics do kick ass, just not as much as the Honda owners out thier claim.
I'm sorry for the rude comment but i've just met too many ignorant Honda owners to believe otherwise.

Honda just needs to build an enigine that isn't prone to detonation in stock form under extreme conditions(Boost/Nitrous/Supercharging).
Originally posted by GTStang
"THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT!!!!!"

Yea there is, its called a Turbo....a word not used in conjunction with Mustang very often.

Your right domestic V8's kick ass, but not in every category they should.
All those sensible cars like (900WHP Supra's) kick ass in many different categories.

Another economical car of its time was the 91 Nissan Sentra SE-R, a car that you can purchace right now for less than 3 grand.
In stock trim this car will run low 15's all day long. Why talk about this car?
Compared to the base model V8 Stang of the early 90's, it's stats look very good.

Nissan will be releasing the Skyline lineup in America very soon.
The R34 will either have one of the following powerplants:
Twin Turbo 6 cylinder
Or some form of Nissans V8 powerplant

Either way the car will be felt from East to West. But for the sake of Imoprts vs. Domestics lets just hope it comes with the V8.

Sorry for the long post, to make up for it here you go:
CIVICS ROCK:toothless

PRIMERA, let me rub it in this RUSTANG boys face with engineering TIPS.....look at a BMW m3 and look at its DISPLACEMENT, its all of about what, 3.2 Liters, and the Honduh 2k (which I dont like, but to prove my point its still an import) the BMW can do a 1/4 in 13 seconds.....i think that is smoking a Camari Shit Shit by about .7 seconds.............DUHHHHHH think twice, there is to many arguments to make when comparing American Muscle and the Intelligence of Foreign people and their cars......and then the s2k on top of it EATS MUSTANGS and runs with camaro's with a 2 LITER engine 2 LITER engine 2 LITER engine 2 LITER engine 2 LITER engine 2 LITER engine, YEAH ONLY 2 LITER engine............So imagine if those smart lil asian guys tried, they would tear up an american car.

Oh yeah I like American cars, but not their engineering, wait I mean what engineering.

The funny thing is, Imports dont need v8's to race with American cars, they use 4 cylinders and 6 cylinders and they TEAR up American cars.....especially when we dont go NA....Skyline.....that just eats american cars up for fun :D

Originally posted by p_r_i_m_e_r_a
Let me start off by saying Civics do kick ass, just not as much as the Honda owners out thier claim.
I'm sorry for the rude comment but i've just met too many ignorant Honda owners to believe otherwise.

Honda just needs to build an enigine that isn't prone to detonation in stock form under extreme conditions(Boost/Nitrous/Supercharging).

Yea there is, its called a Turbo....a word not used in conjunction with Mustang very often.

Your right domestic V8's kick ass, but not in every category they should.
All those sensible cars like (900WHP Supra's) kick ass in many different categories.

Nissan will be releasing the Skyline lineup in America very soon.
The R34 will either have one of the following powerplants:
Twin Turbo 6 cylinder
Or some form of Nissans V8 powerplant

Either way the car will be felt from East to West. But for the sake of Imoprts vs. Domestics lets just hope it comes with the V8.


Honda engine is reliable under stock form. What you said is using the engine in an environment in which it wasn't built for. You need to understand how car works. Honda engines are built to rev which treats engine weight as enemy. The lighter the engine the higher it revs the more power it produce at high rpms. Whereas Turbo requires a engine block that's build to withstand boost.

You see all the benefits of Turbo on small displacement cars. However do you have any slight idea what Turbo does on LS1 and all those pushrod american displacement? Turbo an small displacement can produce a lot of power but only in a very small powerband which makes it very undriveable. Which is very different from say TT Z06.

Nissan is releasing Skyline but it hasn't said a word about GT-R. Also it is going to be known as Infiniti G35 not Skyline. Nissan is leaning towards using the R39 le man street version engine. They want to keep Fairlady Z and Skyline on different class level. Especially with TT Fairlady Z coming out.

Originally posted by JBL85
PRIMERA, let me rub it in this RUSTANG boys face with engineering TIPS.....look at a BMW m3 and look at its DISPLACEMENT, its all of about what, 3.2 Liters, and the Honduh 2k (which I dont like, but to prove my point its still an import) the BMW can do a 1/4 in 13 seconds.....i think that is smoking a Camari Shit Shit by about .7 seconds.............DUHHHHHH think twice, there is to many arguments to make when comparing American Muscle and the Intelligence of Foreign people and their cars......and then the s2k on top of it EATS MUSTANGS and runs with camaro's with a 2 LITER engine 2 LITER engine 2 LITER engine 2 LITER engine 2 LITER engine 2 LITER engine, YEAH ONLY 2 LITER engine............So imagine if those smart lil asian guys tried, they would tear up an american car.

Buddy you have no idea what you are talking about. The engineering within M3 and S2000 is awesome but never ever compare drag with American Muscle. American pushrod can accomplished what M3 can do in a straightline for half the money. Stop making post that make you look extremely dumb in public.

sorry to say jbl85, but modern engineering can't compare to the torque that those hugh engines put out. turbo can add horsepower but no matter what, it wno't kick in until around 3000 rpm, where as in the american big blocks, the power comes instantly.

As everyone says that if you stick a twin turbo on a civic it will be fast, but stick an Icon Twin Turbo on a LS1 (like a firebird formula or camaro z-28/ss, or vette) and you will put out a lot of power, not only low end power/torque, but also a really strong top end. Ya some american engenieering may not be as advanced in general, but the power that american high displacement engine put out just tops the technology.

TatII, yeah true =P....I been in my uncles Chevelle and i shit bricks, but I still think Imports are the best...just my opinion DUH...


THERE IS 3 (in general) DIFFERENT WAYS TO COMPARE CARS
The Class the Car is in
Stock vs Stock
Modded vs Modded

JBL85 and p_r_i_m_e_r_a READ AND LEARN!!!!

JBL85 Now you need to compare a M3 and a S2000 agianst a Camaro. Well if I'm not mistaken those cars seem to be a lot more $$$ than a Camaro SS 22,000 vs. 80,000 for a M3. Good comparision, Makes sense!!! I was personally in the car while a 96' SS killed a 93 M3, I dunno bout the new one's but it dam well better for just shy of $60,000 more!!!

As for a mighty S2000, it revs like a motor cycle. Yea it puts out good hp# for a 2.0 at 9,000rpm's!!! I'll tell you from expirence that a S2000 becomes a useless piece of metal on a 1/4 mile track or a stoplight. You can say you don't care bout that but u will when ya sweet S2000 gets beat by a redneck, stuck in the 80's,mullet haircut, rusted camaro driver.

Hint of the Day: Unlike import drivers, Rednecks actually work on thier cars and know what they are talking bout, Watch Out they'll burn U!

p_r_i_m_e_r_a
You mention turbos on 4 bangers and not used with Stangs. You can have ya turbo anyday, Us V8 American Muscle guys will just use Superchargers, so when you are waiting to get to 3-4,000rpm so you've spooled up, Our boost was there second we stopped the gas. Ouch! that sucks hmmmmm?
If you wanna keep it in Turbos V8s can use TT unlike ya 4 bangers and can create more exhuast gas for boost than any 4banger could pray for. Ever see the header on a Big Block one pipe on the header is the diameter of your whole exhuast, minus coffee can oversized farting muffler.

WOW you 2 sure rub it my face good this time!!!!!

Time for Payback where it hurts... Your precious Skyline!!!

I'm not denying the Skyline isn't bad ass but I think everyone has got to admit the Legend is far outceded the car. I've heard the Skyline can travel to the moon and back. The Skyline is like a Fairytale Maxima owners tell thier kids at night. Personally I can't wait till the Skyline comes to America and has to play by the same rules as the Viper and Corvette etc.., You know lil things like the extra 600lbs it will gaine in crash safety shit. And those lovely Anti-pollution devices that rob HP only on cars in America. Also what type of HP it will actually produce due to how much Insurance Companies love cars like that. Finally for all you lil import driving homos who always bring up the Skyline... How much u think it is gonna cost.... same as ya civic? integra? Man when it comes to America your all gonna own 1 and show us V8 drivers the error of our way. OMG i have nightmares every night living in fear of "Day of the Rope"

Sorry this was so long every1! I don't hate imports just 80% of the uninformed, lying idiots who drive them. Remember the racing fun and respect you want is destroyed by them.

PS Any who knows what movie "Day of the Rope" came from is aight in my book, even if you drive an import!

I will say this, but really I don't have a problem with Domestics, even though I do prefer Imports nowadays. I even used to own a Z28 Camaro, it was my first car. The problem with our Import cars in America is that we don't get the cream of the crop that Japan produces. You see, we aren't exactly seeing the cutting edge of Japanese technology over here in the US as far as their cars goes. If we had all the Jap Spec. models over here in the US then a lot of domestic owners would think twice before trying to run an import. Well at least we did have the Supra and RX-7 here for a while, and oh yeah, let's not forget about the 3000 GT VR-4.

well thats cause all the smog problems we had in the 50's from hugh displacement cars, that were the size of small boats in america, that caused it to have such restriction on emissions. now if america ddin't hve cars sooo soon, or if there just wasn't as big or as many of them in the streets as any other country did in the world. we wouldn't have this stupid emission standard crap. and then we can get all the japanese spec civics, and silvia's and all that jdm goodness. well i love imports. i personally am import only, but i do not dare underestimate american muscle. their interior and design might be crude, they are designed for one purpose and one purpose only, and that is to go fast, very fast, for a very very low price.

Ok, Im not reading that.....why would you write 10 paragraphs over nothing......just say American Cars Rule or something and sum it up

but GTSTANG your also forgettin why teh M3 or any other import is worth soo much, its the amenities that it comes with, its also the brand name of it. if you compare the interior of a import to a muscle car. the muscle cars interior is like crap. soooo you do get more for the money that you pay for. you get more then just a great engine, you also get a better brand with better suspension tunning and a whole lot better of a interior and warrantee. i can't believe that i never thought of it that way. yeah sooo pretty much you get alot more car overall for the extra money you pay for on a import then you do with a american muscle.

Originally posted by F20C

Honda engine is reliable under stock form. What you said is using the engine in an environment in which it wasn't built for. You need to understand how car works. Honda engines are built to rev which treats engine weight as enemy. The lighter the engine the higher it revs the more power it produce at high rpms. Whereas Turbo requires a engine block that's build to withstand boost.


Really wow......blah blah, we all know what they do and are made for.

Now that Honda has conquered the lightweight no torque empire, it needs to build a solid bulletproof engine. I'm young and not that rich, so give me a stock engine that I can dump a 150 Nitrous on. As of today my favorite Honda engine is the one it put in its PWC(you know that turbo kick ass wave rider)....lol 70mph over water.

Read my initial post, I gave props where they are due.
Most American muscle cars can barely carve anything resembling a straight line.....enough said.

My original post and respect for the Skylines, Supras, and other cars are thier ability to do one thing....RALLY.
You know that dirty sport popular over-seas;)
Every topnotch Import incorporates the rally concept, even I have the ability to make my grocery getter a 400HP AWD *tuneable* *efficient* car. Before you get all pissed off realize I didn't directly bash muscle cars.

You also need to realize Americans don't own V8's they own cars with V8's in them. BMW's variable valve V8/12's speak for themselves. For every American made V8/6/4 cylinder you stand behind, I can point out 2 Imports that are just as good or better. This includes your precious Viper(just to go on record the Viper kicks ass)

And just to throw it out, with street turbo's cars like the
240/Silvia(4 cylinder) have passed 7 second 1/4 miles

Sorry for the long post, but I've been bored and I like to argue when I'm drunk:smoker2: :bonghitte =:apuke:

Originally posted by TatII
but GTSTANG your also forgettin why teh M3 or any other import is worth soo much, its the amenities that it comes with, its also the brand name of it. if you compare the interior of a import to a muscle car. the muscle cars interior is like crap. soooo you do get more for the money that you pay for. you get more then just a great engine, you also get a better brand with better suspension tunning and a whole lot better of a interior and warrantee. i can't believe that i never thought of it that way. yeah sooo pretty much you get alot more car overall for the extra money you pay for on a import then you do with a american muscle.

I'll give u BMW but like hell Jap cars have better interior. Cuz Integra and Civics are know for there huge comfy interior space and those huge comfy seats. That's funny cuz everytime I drive in important my knees are touching my chin, the steering wheel is rubbing my dick more than ya woman and the seat gives me that lovely sensation of hemroids. But that fake plastic wood grain treatment is def worth the extra G

JBL85 Sorry man i tried to use logic my B

American Muscle RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! betta?

well GTSTANG you knew what i mean. i am no way sayin that japanese jimports have nice interiors. unless its a MAX, or anything that luxury divisions dish out thats higher then a RSX or an integra.

Ok there is two types of comfort in American vs Import....

American cars tend to be huge and squishy inside, not a lot of support.
Import cars are a lot more stiff and rigid inside, I find that type more comfortable, I mean....go sit in a mustang that has to be one of the most uncomfortable cars I have ever gotten in, then I got into a Integra...yeah a GT stang is faster then a 4 cylinder GSR, but whats more comfortable.

OH yeah and in the mustang, My knee can turn off the blinker when I let off the clutch, I just feel the mustang is one of the crummiest interiors in any car..... and American cars are way cheaper, Look at the interior, even on a fully loaded Excursion the Interior is shitty.....has cheapo knobs and all that crap.

http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.up?kbb.CA;404544&92656;suv&7&BNLXRXINT994.JPG;;1999%20Lexus%20RX%20300%20Instru mentation

http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.up?kbb.CA;729917&92656;suv&7&BNFTEXCINT00A.JPG;;2000%20Ford%20Excursion%20Limit ed%20Interior

You tell me whats more enticing to the Eyes....Japanese or American =)

http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.up?kbb.CA;404544&92656;suv&7&BNLXRXINT994.JPG;;1999%20Lexus%20RX%20300%20Instru mentation

http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.up?kbb.CA;729917&92656;suv&7&BNFTEXCINT00A.JPG;;2000%20Ford%20Excursion%20Limit ed%20Interior

Originally posted by JBL85
OH yeah and in the mustang, My knee can turn off the blinker when I let off the clutch, I just feel the mustang is one of the crummiest interiors in any car..... and American cars are way cheaper, Look at the interior, even on a fully loaded Excursion the Interior is shitty.....has cheapo knobs and all that crap.

http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.up?kbb.CA;404544&92656;suv&7&BNLXRXINT994.JPG;;1999%20Lexus%20RX%20300%20Instru mentation

http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.up?kbb.CA;729917&92656;suv&7&BNFTEXCINT00A.JPG;;2000%20Ford%20Excursion%20Limit ed%20Interior

You tell me whats more enticing to the Eyes....Japanese or American =)

Oh! wow, you´re again comparing the Excursion with the Lexus RX300, now that´s smart! hmm why don´t you compare the Navigator to the Lexus LX470 or a Cavalier with a shitty Civic, a Chrysler 300M with Toyota Avalon or whatever. And you know I´ll could go on and on.........
Definetively american cars make better quality and more comfortable interiors and better looking cars than japanese, this last one only has technology.

oh, and Ford doesn´t make luxury cars, Lexus does. :bloated:

Uh that was a simple comparison of shitty American Interior with Luxury Import interior.

No American car is synomous with luxury, only imports are. =)

who really cares..thats not important

Ever consider trying to becoming less close minded....wait, of course not. How about lets respect what each has to offer, b/c neither is better than the other, or can be proven conclusively so. So instead, lets agree to disagree, become more open minded, and start respecting cars that a nice for what they are....oh wait, you guys like arguing about useless, unwinable stuff, my bad....i'll just sit in the corner.

HAHA duhhhhhh......did you read any previoust posts.....we are bashing on each other for pointless joy of starting non stop arguements about the whole thing.

Anyways.....I have been in a lot of American cars and IN MY OPINION I FOUND THAT THEY AREANT AS NICE AS JAPANESE.....i mean compare a cavalier to a civic, civic interior is really nice and spacious

i think it depends, but you can't compare the cars without going apples to oranges. Like my mom has a toyota solara with moonroof, power everything, leather, premium sound, ect...i got a '98 firebird forumla with t-tops, leather, premium sound, and power everything. Ya these are completly different cars, but i find mine more comfortable, although i like her controls a bit more (except i have some controls on my steering wheel, thats cool). I can't generalize any statement on which is better, i've just been trying and i can't bring myself to. But i can say that SOME domestics have the habit of taking a bit of the quality/luxery away for higher performance and/or lower price. I dunno....i'm tired:(

Ok, you get what I am saying in General.....in majority of imports you find better quality then you would in Domestics, but thats just my 2 cents and thats just what I hear about people with american cars......they always say yeah this knob broke and this rattles blah blah blah.....and everyone with imports doesnt usually complain except that their car is slow :D

Well, i can agree with you about that, of course in general. But there are always the exceptions to the rule both ways.

Originally posted by p_r_i_m_e_r_a


Really wow......blah blah, we all know what they do and are made for.

Now that Honda has conquered the lightweight no torque empire, it needs to build a solid bulletproof engine. I'm young and not that rich, so give me a stock engine that I can dump a 150 Nitrous on. As of today my favorite Honda engine is the one it put in its PWC(you know that turbo kick ass wave rider)....lol 70mph over water.

Read my initial post, I gave props where they are due.
Most American muscle cars can barely carve anything resembling a straight line.....enough said.

My original post and respect for the Skylines, Supras, and other cars are thier ability to do one thing....RALLY.
You know that dirty sport popular over-seas;)
Every topnotch Import incorporates the rally concept, even I have the ability to make my grocery getter a 400HP AWD *tuneable* *efficient* car. Before you get all pissed off realize I didn't directly bash muscle cars.

You also need to realize Americans don't own V8's they own cars with V8's in them. BMW's variable valve V8/12's speak for themselves. For every American made V8/6/4 cylinder you stand behind, I can point out 2 Imports that are just as good or better. This includes your precious Viper(just to go on record the Viper kicks ass)

And just to throw it out, with street turbo's cars like the
240/Silvia(4 cylinder) have passed 7 second 1/4 miles

Sorry for the long post, but I've been bored and I like to argue when I'm drunk:smoker2: :bonghitte =:apuke:

You are wrong American Muscle Cars can tackle twisty as well. However what they have advantage in stock form over Japanese car is Tire Size. Have you seen what size tire Viper run on? That's why they can easily attend the lateral g of 1.

Please explain to me how SUPRA can rally?

BMW's Valvetronic, Double Vanos are wonderful. However you can get 2 or more American V8 for the price of one from BMW.

Do you know what you are talking about? Street turbo like 240 achieving 7 second for 1/4 mile? As far as I know the fastest car in Japan is a FD3S.

This post has gotten pretty long, lets find something else to argue about :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

I disagree, this post is short, lets keep argueing:) hehe

i was gone for a day and i come back and all is see is this arguement that lead to abosuletly nothing~~ this thread has strayed sooo far off from its original topic that it has almost nothing to do with the civic anymore.

CIVICS KICK ASS MAN I am gonna buy one cuz its faster then a Corvette :p :D :p :D :p

Large generlization and bad comparision are all we make here at AF!!! But here is an example of amercan V8 and luxury. A Cadilliac STS, now granted it the car ya grandfather would drive but it is huge inside, comfotable, and has more amenities than any BMW can offer. And also short of a M3 M5 none faster. It's pretty embarassing when some1's grandpa will blast past you in his god dam Caddy when u driving your lil AWD turbo DSM or most Stangs too I admit. Technology 32 valve Northstar, I believe thats 4 valves per cylinder with some big cubes to back it up and no need for VTEC. So here you got speed, comfort, technolgy sounds like it meets all your gripes bout American cars.

PS This post was about Civics?

I dont know about that. I used to detail cars all the time an I always found that when you were doing the interior of a New or Old Cadillac, it always seems like something was fallin off or some electronic motor was stuck. Like maybe the steering wheel wouldnt go back into place after you shut the door or the memory seats couldnt remember the way they were supposed to go. I never had that much respect for the insides of Cadillacs. Now, i f you look inside of a Mercedes, its a whole different story. Even when driving the car, everything feels so incredibly solid, same with the majority of European Cars. From VW's to Opels, to Mercs to European Fords, you'll mostly find superior construcion. This is from my experience of living in Germany. Im also an American, an being with the military an having your own detailing business, you have the experience of driving both types of cars. You'll find cars like a 99 Caddy STS, an then a 89 Mercedes 190 E, an you ll notice that the mercedes is in almost perfect condition, while there would still be problems with the Caddy. I think it has to do with the German Work ethic. If you ever live there, youll totally understand what I'm saying. If you ever take a tour of the Mercedes_Benz Plant in Sindelfingen, Germany, you would be totally amazed. It would blow your mind, guaranteed. I think its the fact that the Workers at M-B are required to sign paperwork that says there responible for the quality of there work for 20 years. I dont know how they enforce it, something about doc'ing them pay. As for power, take an E 55 Amg or an Audi A4 2.3 TT (faster than the S4) to an STS..there easily comparable. (I love the Northstar V8) My experience with Japanese cars is limited in that I broke a 1990 Toyota Camry once. But what Im trying to say is that there is a noticeable difference in quality between American and European cars, maybe even saying imports. Then if you say, "what about the price?" Given, a Caddy in the states is gonna run cheaper than any European competitior..if you look at prices of a BMW or a Mercedes in Germany, they are way cheaper than Caddy's are in the states. They have all kinds of ways for the average german worker can afford a BMW, Audi, VW, or Merc. Things like ten year financing plans, an just not being as expensive as people believe they are. I think another testament to the quality of European construction, is that every taxi in germany is either a Mercedes or a BMW, even the buses are made by Mercedes. You dont find Caddillac Taxi's. Even the US Government would rather protect there generals in a BMW 750il then a Caddillac because they handle better an are stronger structurally. I once talked to one of the driver's. anyway..sorry about that babbling, thats what I believe.

Look IM blnd and I want to buy a Cadilac cuz I think its fast......can I turn in it, NOOOO it doesnt handle for shit :D

Ok as for the price it is only fair to compare them in the U.S. I lived in France for 3 months and was surprised all taxis were Benzs and Audi's until it was explianed they are dirt cheap in Europe. So if you start looking at what u pay for the cars u listed vs. STS in america the STS is a deal. As for turning your wrong, just as a base Taurus cant turn worth shit and Taurus SHO will outurn integras,maximas,etc.., Same thing happens here the STS has a handling package and it will turn better than you think

Taurus SHO out turn a Type R.....hmm......hold on i just fell over laughing let me get back up

what GTSTANG meant was that, think of a taurus handling package as a MAX se. in straight line it will pretty much kill every honda, but the standard max aren't great handlers. but if you get it in SE trim it will handle better then you would expect from a car of htat size. same thing with the taurus. even though i know nothing abuot this car, but i think this is what GTSTANG meant. i'm almost positive.

Thanks TATII that is what i meant and it will out turn an Integra too. I dunno bout Type R and I said nothing of it but if it has the same set-up as a stock Integra it will. The SHO has better skid pad and slalom numbers than a stock integra.

no prob gtstang. well all have our preferences. even i do respect some american cars, the camero SS or the Z06 in particular, i still chose JDM cars over them. i don't disrespect american muscle in anyway, csaue you could get a 320hp car for only 25,000. but i'd still pick my imports. heh. not just any cheap ones though, i mean if i had a choice of a civic or a integra to a mustang or a camaro? noooooo contest. american muscle all the way. but if its between a rx-7, gt-r, evo, or nsx, to a Z06 or a viper? i would pick the super JDM's over them. its all a matter of preference.

Ok.....dont get me started GTSTANG.......those ford Taurus SHO things cost way more then a normal integra, your comparing a 27k car to a 17k integra, get a 24k GSR and it will spank a Taurus SHO on and off track. So thats basically a dumb comparison, care to try again?:confused:

SHO's were faster from 89 to 94 than a Maxima,

but when the Maxima came out in 95, it was faster

than a SHO. The 96 SHO took a crap with the V-8

and the Automatic, which let Maximas beat them even more.:wave:

Well Said Joe:D

Originally posted by joeB
SHO's were faster from 89 to 94 than a Maxima,

but when the Maxima came out in 95, it was faster

than a SHO. The 96 SHO took a crap with the V-8

and the Automatic, which let Maximas beat them even more.:wave:

the most recent SHO's with the 3.5L V8s was more like the oldsmobile aurora. not really anything of a sports sedan, much more of a touring sedan than anything. it failed miserably. but the SHO's prior to that were pretty quick.

as far as picking between a z06 and an rx-7 or supra, it'd be a hard decision. have you driven a z06 before? those things are damn fast. it may lack the refinement and fit and finish of the japanese counterparts, but when it comes down to pure no-nonsense power, the z06 is hard to beat. especially for its price.

I'm sure the Z06 lacks some of the refinement of some of the other cars you mentioned, but that's kind of the point. :)

Build quality on the Vettes is generally extremely good. The only problem with the car is that at some point you will probably have to deal with a Chevy dealer which just sucks.

The comparison was not an SHO vs Integra. It was how a previously larger car with shitty handling can be improved cuz the car manufacturer wants sportier intentions. As in te SLS versus the improvement in a STS. Also A 92'-95 SHO will beat down a Maxima SE and out turn it. But I'd like to say something bout people saying american cars can't turn. I have heard lots of my import driving friends say this to me and I have no problem keep up with them in turns. I give that there skipad might be .2-.3 better than mine but if you think that will make you just pull away np your wrong. And after that lil lead you got your gonna lose cuz after all the turns there will always be a striaght away

hmm......ok race an m3 and a gt stang. BYE BYE Mustang.....as much as I love how a GT can slam your head back on teh head rest and make you smile while you fly.....it handles like shit and its American so it aint all that.

Originally posted by GTStang
As for turning your wrong, just as a base Taurus cant turn worth shit and Taurus SHO will outurn integras,maximas,etc..,
All I am gonna say is:

SHO.........................POWERED BY YAMAHA!!!!!:p

I know, these guys swear SHO does shit for those cars.....every ford I see that is SHO looks like shi******************t......i mean its like american cars wear so bad.....all old import cars look good still. I guess its either people who own american cars take bad care of them or they just are crapy from the start.

The 95 and on Maximas are still faster than sho's.

Yes cuz an M3 and a GT Mustang cost the same amount so they should def be compared... Hell lets compare how it turns compared to a Ferrari next!
I'm sure a civic, Integra, Eclispe will turn with the M3 unlike the mustang right?

It is a Yahama V6 great motor never said it was an american engine but the suspension is and that was what i was talking bout. Also in 95 the SHO was still fatser 96 is when the Maximas were better.

No idea what you were just talking about.

In 95 the five speed Maxima SE got car of the year

from Motor Trend, and that is the year it was faster to now

than a SHO.:rolleyes:

Ok where is this going now, we know nissan is better then ford =)

I think that unlike the sedan the Accord Coupe is ugly; that silly front-end and that fat rear-end higher than in the Echo!:D

Yeah my dad said the same thing, but what I have to say is your one to talk, you have a FORD FOCUS.......one of the ugliest cars in production, almost as bad as a Aztec :D

Originally posted by JBL85
Yeah my dad said the same thing, but what I have to say is your one to talk, you have a FORD FOCUS.......one of the ugliest cars in production, almost as bad as a Aztec :D

Well then people has to be blind to buy it so much cause is the #1 or 2 best selling vehicle in the world. :D
i really like it anyways. :rolleyes:

Maybe they buy the Focus because it has a low price, and

its an ecomony car. I dont like the 2 door, but the 4 door

is nice. :)

Many people are buying this car it's great and it has many aftermarket part's for sale and many that are still to come.This car look's great and it's better then a ford foucs!!!!!!!

check this pic out at:http://www.roadraceengineering.com/rreimages/sema2001/

look at dsc00930.jpg to dsc00947.jpg at this link for nice PICS:smoka:

yeah sorry for bashing on it, some guy I am not too fond of has one and thinks its the coolest thing....he dropped all this money into and its slow as shit....so yeah 4 doors are ok but the 2 door looks like an egg, kind of like my RX300

there is no such thing as a 2 door lancer.there all 4door.and there better than a civic .with only $1600 i got it too 170hp and i have killed some many cars with theses car for exsample a celica gt-s 2002

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lanceroz17
there is no such thing as a 2 door lancer.there all 4door.and there better than a civic .with only $1600 i got it too 170hp and i have killed some many cars with theses car for exsample a celica gt-s 2002 [/
QUOTE]

me and my sister went out today looking for her a car,

and we noticed the Lancer oz it looked really awesome.

What kinda mods you have on it? You like it so far? :)

How do you get 50hp out of 1600 bucks.....i mean I could shoot nos and get well over 200hp.....but nos burns your motor up after awhile of use

Well I was wondering that too JBL.

Originally posted by JBL85
Yeah my dad said the same thing, but what I have to say is your one to talk, you have a FORD FOCUS.......one of the ugliest cars in production, almost as bad as a Aztec :D

don't you mean ass-tec?

i got a Quad Throttle Body and magnaflow custom exhast,headers,Haltech Engine Computers,sparkplug wires ,that's cost 2189.

haha.....whatever it is, its sorry lookin mofo

Imports are shit.No import can beat a good old Amerian muscle car.Hondas shitty Jap cars and there ugly as hell.I would never buy one.:flipa: I have a 1990 Coupe Cadillac DeVille.I challenged a kid at my high school and his 1998 Honda Civic.He has this thing all souped up. I have never put anything in my Caddy but a system.DeVilles arent even muscle cars and I left this kid in the dust,smoked him.:flipa: to the kid I smoked!

Copperhed - you are an idiot. I love muscle cars, but you are too close minded. Some imports will beat some muscle cars, and some muscle cars will be some imports. B/c you beat one import (an economy car) you believe that all imports are slow, crappy cars? You are just the same as those people who say "demestics suck, imports will always rule". So for the sake of everyone who is not a complete idiot, please don't open your mouth (or should i say, make posts like these). Thanks.



p.s. Just trying to avoid the endless, annoying debates over imports vs. domestics, in which all of the idiots come out of the woodworks.

Originally posted by lanceroz17
i got a Quad Throttle Body and magnaflow custom exhast,headers,Haltech Engine Computers,sparkplug wires ,that's cost 2189.

Would you post pics of it?

We made a conclusion, my friends and I have argued far to long....

The DODGE VIPER TWIN TURBO is the fastest PRODUCTION CAR in the WORLD. We looked for other cars that could compare and the only other was an import called a McLaren F1 which does a 1/4 in the 11 second range. Its skid pad is about 1.02 G's. The Dodge could do the 1/4 in the 10 second range and had a skidpad of .99. After finding this and not being able to find any other import that could compare both on street and track we found americans made the fastest car. So in the end muscle owns import stock for stock. :D

THANK YOU so much JBL85
Dodge Vipers are the faster production cars on the market today and only the McLarren F1 would have a chance against it.
You are totally ,100%,correct

Actually the McLaren F1 can go from 0-100-0 in just under 12 seconds. So its quarter mile time has to be less than 11 seconds.

Actually thats BS, A car can do a 1/4 at 120mph and still be doing it in 13 seconds, its all about the gears and how much speed it picks up at a givin time. So it can go that fast, but it might do a 1/4 in 11 seconds at 110

thats all I have to say

Bleh. Hennessy Viper? Bah! '02 Lingenfelter Corvette Twin Turbo.
Fully street legal.
A test by Motortrend:
0 - 30 : 0.83
0 - 40 : 1.20
0 - 50 : 1.59
0 - 60 : 1.97
0 - 70 : 2.44
0 - 80 : 3.06
0 - 90 : 3.67
0 - 100 : 4.33
0 - 150 : 9.21
Quarter mile, sec / mph : 9.24/150.27
0 - 100 - 0, sec : 8.75
Braking, 60 - 0 mph, ft : 108
Skidpad, g : 1.01
Top speed : 240 (est)
No lie, no typo. Sorry Hennessey.

wow...

Now if Chevy made THAT there production vehicle the Muscle Cars wars would have been overwith a long time ago...

Yeah, hence hte fact that its not production, but that is what americans are capable off......wait a second, so are japanese, they have 9 second skylines to. Dont forget the whole point of me saying Hennessy was production car

Originally posted by lloyd_nickens
wow...

Now if Chevy made THAT there production vehicle the Muscle Cars wars would have been overwith a long time ago...

Could you imagine trying to keep a beast like that under control? People would be launching themselves across streets and through buildings trying to pull out into traffic to quickly.

First of all Yes i'm a girl but i do just a little bit a about cars too:flash: I just got back from Japan where i drove a Civic type-R, the real one, the ones that they don't sell in the states no matter what automotive parts store people get their type-R emblems from. It was a used 97 civic type-R and i have to say it was good damn car, but of course i had to sell it when i came to the states. Now i'm driving my 98 mustang, which i just adore, My point is this, every car, foregin or domestic has something infamous about it, every car at one point has been out rated. meaning that people just talked about the car to much and it was probaly a good car, but hey it's just a car. Every likes certain cars for a certain reason, but every car has it's own perks and no car completly sucks. Just because you beat one civic (for those domestic owners) or one Mustang (for those foregin owner) doesn't mean that your car can beat any civic or any mustang, depends upon a multiple amount of things. So chill out on the "your car sucks" ordeal, you have your own divine right, but let's be adult like here, and as far as the viper things goes. the mclauren is faster, it has BMW V-12 with so many different mods. It's true!
Love ya!

Originally posted by 98MustangGirlie
but let's be adult like here, and as far as the viper things goes. the mclauren is faster, it has BMW V-12 with so many different mods. It's true!
Love ya!

Everything you said until there was good. Viper modded will FUCK up a Mclaren. :D

Then we are gonna get into this comparision of well if I do this to my F1 it can do this, look at the price, Viper is Sub 100k and F1 is a Million dollars, Ill take a viper any day and keep the cash in my pocket

Is that your Altima JBL? Looks sweeet.
Got any more pics? What kinda headlights
did you put in?
Later:) :D

Hey Joe, Yeah its mine. Those are Hella 8000K HID's.

I cant Edit that post, sorry its a ditto image :)

.

I just read the last two pages so I dont know if this has been addressed, but ligenwhatzit and hennesy are not production cars. Unless they come like that from the factory, its not production. The McLaren F1, though only about 50 were made, was made by mclaren from scratch, except for the bmw engine. Therefore it is a production vehicle.

Now a MODDED viper would probably win against a STOCK mclaren, if your talking about a straight line. However, even a 1000hp viper would lose to a mclaren on a track.

nice pics
how much were those headlights?
later....:) :D

that's whack, civics are slow. i'm sorry but if you notice, when you look at mostly any "kill list" forum, they all say "too many civics to count." why, you ask? because they are like practice on the novice corse for street racing. all that aside, doesn't mercedes make the V-12 for the mclaren?

Originally posted by hondasuck
doesn't mercedes make the V-12 for the mclaren?

Its BMW.

And only the US Spec Civic's are slow. The rest of the world gets some screamers.

civics are alright, i give any homie props with a civic, but accords to seem look a bit nicer

Originally posted by Moppie



And only the US Spec Civic's are slow. The rest of the world gets some screamers.

fair enough, i resign my previous generalization, US spec civics are played out by everyone and their mother, and down here in SoFLA, if you got a civic with a fart can ($20) some knockoff altezzas ($40 ebay style) and some tenzo's... you got yourself a "dope ride", hell i don't even drive and i would rather walk then drive one of those for sheer unorigionality factor, get my licence in 2 months, have NO CLUE what i'm getting, but anyway, sorry for being vague, good lookin' out everyone...

Originally posted by hondasuck
that's whack, civics are slow. i'm sorry but if you notice, when you look at mostly any "kill list" forum, they all say "too many civics to count." why, you ask? because they are like practice on the novice corse for street racing. all that aside, doesn't mercedes make the V-12 for the mclaren?
what kind of car do you drive? and I know lots of ppl with really fast civic's in here, and not all american civic's are slow.

Originally posted by SkunkSI

what kind of car do you drive? and I know lots of ppl with really fast civic's in here, and not all american civic's are slow.


He dosn't. Infact he dosnt even have a his license yet.
He's as about as qualified to comment on cars as I am on Brain Surgery.

Originally posted by Moppie

He dosn't. Infact he dosnt even have a his license yet.
He's as about as qualified to comment on cars as I am on Brain Surgery.

Since when has "qualified" been a prerequisite for stating ones opinion ;) :)

Originally posted by YogsVR4


Since when has "qualified" been a prerequisite for stating ones opinion ;) :)

Anyone is free to state thier opinion.
But an opinion is not a factual statement.

Im quite free to state my opinion on how to remove a brian tumor, but would you want to take it as advice?

if a muscule car is a heavy american car with lots of horse power well than you can say the U.S. still makes some. think of the new mercury(4000+ lbs) , impala ss (around 4000) , lincoln mark VIII (3900lbs).
I own a mark VIII and now it hase the same 4.6 twin cam as the mustang cobra. I have frends that only have $200 super chips in theres and get 14.4 in the1/4 and still can get 25 mpg. plus the factory and many mags clame .86-.87g's with its stock full indipendant suspension.
with out any mods im sure these cars would compare nicely with the old muscule and I know the can saprise most imports.so you can say muscule cars have come a long way.:) :)

For me, I LOVE the old Mopar musclecars, and I will own a Plymouth Barracuda one day. But it won't be a daily driver. In my own experience, the imports I have owned or had experience with were of vastly higher quality, reliability, and longevity than the domestics I've owned or had experience with. For a daily driver, that's important. I had a Honda, it was stock and older and SLOW, but reliable and economical. Good college car. I don't like the new Honda VTECs because I don't like to have to wind the crap out of my engine to get anything out of it. My personal preference is TORQUE, the lower the better, but a light, tight-handling car is also important to me. That and reliability and economy eliminates the Mustangs, Camaros, etc. The only Camaro I drove which handled really well was an 88 2.8, and it was a POS as far as quality. So I guess I wanted a high-quality Japanese car, that got acceptable mileage, handled well, and had decent low-end torque, and I could afford.

So I've found my own personal happy medium, though it wasn't easy to find, they are quite rare and I got hella-lucky to find one in my area. My 88 Nissan 200SX SE has the 3-liter out of the 300ZX, with better low-end torque than any 4-banger, but is lighter than the Z, is very reliable, gets mid-20's to the gallon (pushes 30 mpg on the highway). I think I'll keep it forever. As long as I don't take it up North to often, so it doesn't rust.

I think that everybody has to decide what properties of a car are important to them personally.

Originally posted by hondasuck
that's whack, civics are slow. i'm sorry but if you notice, when you look at mostly any "kill list" forum, they all say "too many civics to count." why, you ask? because they are like practice on the novice corse for street racing. all that aside, doesn't mercedes make the V-12 for the mclaren?

i think the V12 in the mclaren is from bmw.:bandit:

Originally posted by del


i think the V12 in the mclaren is from bmw.:bandit:


It is. :smoka:

Unless you put money into a Honda it will not beat a stock muscle car.And who cars about gas.It you have the money to buy a V8 then you can afford the gas.

Originally posted by WakkaWu
Unless you put money into a Honda it will not beat a stock muscle car.

Define a stock muscle car?
There are plenty of "muscle" cars my Civic will beat in both a straight line and around corners.
There more that it wont of course.

Originally posted by WakkaWu
Unless you put money into a Honda it will not beat a stock muscle car.And who cars about gas.It you have the money to buy a V8 then you can afford the gas.
A stock muscle car is more expensive in most case's to begin with. Modifying a cheaper car (in this case a honda) will prove to be more cost efficent. I do enjoy the hum of a V8, but i've grown quite acustom to the sound of a well tuned B18. (this is my car of choice) Other ppl may choose a muscle car, it vary's according to the preference of the individual. For instance I've found that a shorter stroke and a higher revolution serves my need for speed quite nicely. (4 grand 4gen CRX)

You know what a muscle car is...a Vette,Trans Am,Mustang,Hemis,etc.You Honda can beat those?Highly doubt it.a stock Honda will not beat a stock muscle car.I just hate it so much when people say stupid things like "my stock Honda Civic can beat your Vette anyday man."

True muscle cars are more expensive to start out with in general, but one you try to build a civic up to the speed and ability of the muscle car, you have just destroyed the driveability part it had over the muscle, and spent just as much if not more.

I have nothing against people building up civics and integras, but i don't think its fair to say "well, its better to mod an import than a domestic b/c you get more return". Guy around here has an internally stock '00 Z28 with a supercharger (running 8 or 9 pounds, can't remember) and dyno's 544rwhp. Either can be built to be fast, its where your tastes and abilities lie.

Imports ownz joo bonez.

Ya imports own...especially jetta's. Oh ya, i raced my friend's mod'd jetta a few months ago (i forgot what he has, but he has put some good money into it), and i can only count the space between us in buses. It wasn't from a stop (my torque would have given me an advantage there), it was from a roll so its not like there was much driver skill involved.

True muscle cars are more expensive to start out with in general, but one you try to build a civic up to the speed and ability of the muscle car, you have just destroyed the driveability part it had over the muscle, and spent just as much if not more.


If the stock muscle cost more that still don't matter.If some stupid 17 year old thinks that there Civic can beat a Trans Am,so be it.let them get beat.If you race a Civic with 10 grand in mods against a Trans Am,though the same amount of money was put into both,its still not a fair race.Know what Im saying?If you put 10 grand into both,then its a fair race,even though the Civic would be smoked,its still fair.

Originally posted by WakkaWu
You know what a muscle car is...a Vette,Trans Am,Mustang,Hemis,etc.You Honda can beat those?Highly doubt it.
yes it can. How far do you live from williamsport?

No they can't.Williamsport where?

Originally posted by -cy-
True muscle cars are more expensive to start out with in general, but one you try to build a civic up to the speed and ability of the muscle car, you have just destroyed the driveability part it had over the muscle, and spent just as much if not more.

I have nothing against people building up civics and integras, but i don't think its fair to say "well, its better to mod an import than a domestic b/c you get more return". Guy around here has an internally stock '00 Z28 with a supercharger (running 8 or 9 pounds, can't remember) and dyno's 544rwhp. Either can be built to be fast, its where your tastes and abilities lie.
Depends on your knowledge of the automotive being modified. For instance a b18c b16a or h22a just to name a few are built with the intention of withstanding a much higher cr(ductile), making it easy for a civic or any honda to handle much more boost/compression than most domestics. Furthermore the two engine designs are completely different domestic manufacturers have traditionally built engines with lots of torque, Japanese manufacturers build engines with less torque, but the ability to rev much higher. This typically means that honda's don't accelerate as quickly right off the line as their domestic counterparts, but they are able to accelerate for longer in the same gear -9,000 rpm redline vs. a 5,500 rpm redline for example. You see domestics use a longer stroke and a shorter bore, while imports use a shorter stroke and a larger bore. There is a drawback to a long stroke because the piston must travel a longer distance, there is a physical limit to how many RPM the engine can achieve. On the opposite end of the spectrum, an engine with a large bore and short stroke will produce less overall torque, but has the ability to reach much higher revolutions per minute, and subsequently more horsepower. As for the remark reffering to me as a 17 yr old, I'm 22 and a mechanical engineer.

Originally posted by WakkaWu
No they can't.Williamsport where?
you need to do some research. and PA.

There are Williamsport towns all over the country smart one.I don't need to do research on a place I will never visit.And yes,Im fairly close to there.Couple hours maybe.

Originally posted by WakkaWu
There are Williamsport towns all over the country smart one.I don't need to do research on a place I will never visit.And yes,Im fairly close to there.Couple hours maybe.
........ I meant research the vehicle............ I live on maple ave. which is a few blocks up the street from the college. Or just go to D-house and check out the X-board for location. (I can PM you with directions.)
PS- your location says sacramento ca.? you live near Pa.?

I used to live in Binghamton, New York.You live near State College?(PSU)?Let me know if you do.And a ctock Honda CANNOT beat a HEMI,Vette,Trans Am or Mustang.

Sure it can... Hybridsol's cars are stock by all means... Stock as they come... If you believe that then... well ... then you're an Idiot. hehe.

But, yeah his car can beat all those... and it has. His cars are so badass Honda Motor Corp. calls him up for ideas.

Dont believe me? Take a lil road trip up there find out. I garauntee you'll have fun!

And all thats coming from a diehard Domestic fan... If that doesnt mean something then I've no clue what does.

Originally posted by WakkaWu
I used to live in Binghamton, New York.You live near State College?(PSU)?Let me know if you do.And a ctock Honda CANNOT beat a HEMI,Vette,Trans Am or Mustang.
I never said it was stock...... I simply stated that it was (and is) more cost efficent for me to build a fast car using a honda. I was a student at main, and am now attending a branch campus (specified ecu design). My sister goes there to, were lion kids. :D But yea I have lots of friends there. Mostly around UT and the towers.

Originally posted by RedNeck383
Sure it can... Hybridsol's cars are stock


honest...... they are. ;)

PS- I don't want it to sound like I dislike domestics. I myself am obsessed with 60's stangs. Redneck has a kickass nova as well.:)

Sure it can... Hybridsol's cars are stock by all means... Stock as they come... If you believe that then... well ... then you're an Idiot. hehe.

But, yeah his car can beat all those... and it has. His cars are so badass Honda Motor Corp. calls him up for ideas.

Dont believe me? Take a lil road trip up there find out. I garauntee you'll have fun!

And all thats coming from a diehard Domestic fan... If that doesnt mean something then I've no clue what does.[QUOTE]


It is impossible for a stock Honda to beat a car with 405HP(Vette Z06).You are an idiot to belive that that is possible.1997 Honda Del Sol SI SOHC VTECH 1.6 Liter; 4 Cylinder; 127HP;5 Speed...thats a stock,127 HP against 405HP.Im probably making a bad choice here but Im going with the Vette that has 405HP:D







[QUOTE]I never said it was stock...... I simply stated that it was (and is) more cost efficent for me to build a fast car using a honda. I was a student at main, and am now attending a branch campus (specified ecu design). My sister goes there to, were lion kids. But yea I have lots of friends there. Mostly around UT and the towers.


You have a lot of friends and PSU?

I think what hybridsol is trying to point out to you is that most muscle cars are more expensive to begin with. like alot more expensive. In his case it is more "cost efficent" to buy a honda which is thousands of dollars less and modify it. Also wakkaWu hybridsol has DOHC over 300 hp delsol and his CRX beat a hemi cuda.

Originally posted by WakkaWu



You have a lot of friends and PSU?
:huh:
yea I have friends there.........(I think thats what your asking, but I already stated that?) Do you go to main?

Originally posted by Civicgurl
I think what hybridsol is trying to point out to you is that most muscle cars are more expensive to begin with. like alot more expensive. In his case it is more "cost efficent" to buy a honda
Bingo

Originally posted by F20C


Yes you could with aftermarket parts. However the main part of how car handles is the chassis. If you have a soft chassis doesn't matter how big anti-roll bar you put in the car still have it's limits for improvment. You need a solid chassis to work with or else you be down big time.

That is why they invented subframe connectors. But older muscle cars were never made for good handling since the public wanted straightline performance but it is hard to avoid that a 2003 Mustang Cobra with IRS does not have handling.

You are saying the Cobra with IRS has bad handling?

doh It did not come out right I meant to say that ford improving Even though it is run by a bunch of chickensh** old farts

doh It did not come out right I meant to say that ford improving Even though it is run by a bunch of chickensh** old farts

doh It did not come out right I meant to say that ford improving Even though it is run by a bunch of chickensh** old farts

most interestingly stupid argument ever... i really think we need to divide import apart though into japanese and european. kuz they are really different. there are cars from all markets i would choose but on the whole id say that german interiors are the nicest jbl.

-GTi-VR6_A3

I think what hybridsol is trying to point out to you is that most muscle cars are more expensive to begin with. like alot more expensive. In his case it is more "cost efficent" to buy a honda which is thousands of dollars less and modify it. Also wakkaWu hybridsol has DOHC over 300 hp delsol and his CRX beat a hemi cuda.


Yes I know he's trying to say that but if your willing to race a stock car that cost thousands more and that is faster with your car then go ahead.But what Im saying it is not a fair race to put 10 grand into the Honda a leave the muscle car the same.Stock Honda and stock Vette is fair.Honda with 10 G put into it and Vette with 10 G put into it,fair race.Stock Vette and Honda with 10 G put onto it,not a fair race.
HIs DelSol has got to be modified some then because before I posted my last post I looked up how much HP they had and I had seen 127HP.His CRX is not stock because is impossible to beat a Hemi Cuda with a stock CRX.

Originally posted by WakkaWu



Yes I know he's trying to say that but if your willing to race a stock car that cost thousands more and that is faster with your car then go ahead.But what Im saying it is not a fair race to put 10 grand into the Honda a leave the muscle car the same.Stock Honda and stock Vette is fair.Honda with 10 G put into it and Vette with 10 G put into it,fair race.Stock Vette and Honda with 10 G put onto it,not a fair race.
HIs DelSol has got to be modified some then because before I posted my last post I looked up how much HP they had and I had seen 127HP.His CRX is not stock because is impossible to beat a Hemi Cuda with a stock CRX.


Well Gee Golly... Im glad you just now realised that his car's are not stock.

And to be fair, the Hemi Hybridsol beat was not stock either. It was a Cuda with extensive modifications for Drag racing. Roll cage, Slicks... motor that made 6 bajillion horsepower. So, it according to you... it was a Fair race.

Hybrid won, fair and square. Ask HemiGeorge the own of the worlds cleanest Cuda. He'll admit he didnt win, he's cool as hell.

Gah... Lunch time. Im done babbling for now.:D

Originally posted by RedNeck383



Well Gee Golly... Im glad you just now realised that his car's are not stock.

And to be fair, the Hemi Hybridsol beat was not stock either. It was a Cuda with extensive modifications for Drag racing. Roll cage, Slicks... motor that made 6 bajillion horsepower. So, it according to you... it was a Fair race.

Hybrid won, fair and square. Ask HemiGeorge the own of the worlds cleanest Cuda. He'll admit he didnt win, he's cool as hell.

Gah... Lunch time. Im done babbling for now.:D


damn i hate being up on renecks jock like this but mayn he OWNED J00. all with the facts and no hearsay... hahah jp man you should check out the story about that race though its a kool read.

-GTi-VR6_A3

Originally posted by WakkaWu

Yes I know he's trying to say that but if your willing to race a stock car that cost thousands more and that is faster with your car then go ahead.But what Im saying it is not a fair race to put 10 grand into the Honda a leave the muscle car the same.Stock Honda and stock Vette is fair.Honda with 10 G put into it and Vette with 10 G put into it,fair race.Stock Vette and Honda with 10 G put onto it,not a fair race.
HIs DelSol has got to be modified some then because before I posted my last post I looked up how much HP they had and I had seen 127HP.His CRX is not stock because is impossible to beat a Hemi Cuda with a stock CRX.


I'd like state in defense for the [H] owners, stock vs stock still isnt fair. Allow me to explain.

A Stock
98 Z28 Camaro = 13.7
99 Civic Si = 15.7

To me thats still not fair, obviously the Z28 has the advantage. You'd need to dump some Green into the Civic to match the Z28s capabilities. Then it would be an even match. Given equal performing cars.. it would be up to the drivers who won.

Now, of course if the Z28 was given the same budget the Civic was for performance upgrades. Then by all means the Z28 would just kick the Civic upside the ear and insult it by telling 'yo momma' jokes. (Hypothetically speaking of course)

So as you may or may not see... stock vs stock usually isnt a fair comparison between two cars that aren't in the same class.

Hope I didnt offend any Honda owners.:p

Originally posted by WakkaWu



Yes I know he's trying to say that but if your willing to race a stock car that cost thousands more and that is faster with your car then go ahead.But what Im saying it is not a fair race to put 10 grand into the Honda a leave the muscle car the same.Stock Honda and stock Vette is fair.Honda with 10 G put into it and Vette with 10 G put into it,fair race.Stock Vette and Honda with 10 G put onto it,not a fair race.
HIs DelSol has got to be modified some then because before I posted my last post I looked up how much HP they had and I had seen 127HP.His CRX is not stock because is impossible to beat a Hemi Cuda with a stock CRX.

there are 3 fair comparisons. same car, same class, or same price that is it. stock shevy vs stock civic is soo not a fair race. 30k vette vs 30k civic thats fair although i would guess the vette would still win but man you have really gotta think your posts though first or at least make some edits soon.

-GTi-VR6_A3

Here is the thing, a new civic and a new (stripper) Z28 aren't that far from eachother price-wise as some people would have you think. The corvette has an LS1 and costs like 30-40k. Then there is the f-body, which has an LS1 and can be found for nearly $20-21k new for a stripper Z28 (no leather, etc). I got my firebird with all the options, used, for around $15,000 (was in really good shape too).

Anyways, once you mod a car all bets are off. Will a mod'd civic beat a stock Z06? Well, yes if he has done enough of the right mods. Once you mod a car, you can't compare the stock vs. stock anymore. You can only really compare specific cases, like exact cars with exact mods and drivers.

Originally posted by -cy-
Here is the thing, a new civic and a new (stripper) Z28 aren't that far from eachother price-wise as some people would have you think. The corvette has an LS1 and costs like 30-40k. Then there is the f-body, which has an LS1 and can be found for nearly $20-21k new for a stripper Z28 (no leather, etc). I got my firebird with all the options, used, for around $15,000 (was in really good shape too).

I'm still failing to see your point? Are you aware that a 2003 base model, or (stripped) as you referred to it as Civic Coupe is 11 grand? My friends and I built with 4 grand, a CRX capable of outstanding quarter mile times. Just imagine what people could do, with that kind of money left over by purchasing a civic (with knowledge of the 7th gen of course). All I was saying, is that I am able to make a honda faster than a muscle car with limited funds.
PS- the 2003 corvette runs from 44-51 grand.

Originally posted by WakkaWu


HIs DelSol has got to be modified some then because before I posted my last post I looked up how much HP they had and I had seen 127HP.
they make many del sol models = (b16a3 is 158 hp) (straight b16a from japan is 168 hp) then there's the base models. but my sol has a motor swap.

Originally posted by hybridsol

they make many del sol models = (b16a3 is 158 hp) (straight b16a from japan is 168 hp) then there's the base models. but my sol has a motor swap.

i wonder if anyone ever looks at you signature...? i mean it kinda hints performance...ack people

-GTi-VR6_A3

Originally posted by GTi-VR6_A3


i wonder if anyone ever looks at you signature...? i mean it kinda hints performance...ack people

-GTi-VR6_A3
I think your one of the few ppl that did. lol :D

All I see is custom Turbo Piping.. and Intercooler... thats perfectly stock.

Straight from the factory right?

11K for a civic...never heard of that. I have a friend who bought a brand new civic, but got a good deal on it...wasn't 11K.

Originally posted by RedNeck383
All I see is custom Turbo Piping.. and Intercooler... thats perfectly stock.

Straight from the factory right?

man everytime i read one of your posts man. all you say is stupid stuff. i heard your sarcasm in that last one so im gunna tell you now. according to GT3 honda civic's ARE factory bread racecars. duh i mean look at the game once in your life. all that stuff in his car is totally stock man. i swear redneck you give af a bad name

-GTi-VR6_A3

What was I thinking? Video Games have all the correct answers of course!...


Sorry... I do give AF a bad name.. look at me Im just a Redneck... What do I know?:D

Quoting facts from a video game is pretty silly, its not exactly a reliable source.

However there are plenty of thrack bred Honda's sold in Japan and Europe.
There have been weekend race ready versions of the Civic since the RS version of the 1st gen in the early 70s.
My car is a classic example, the orginal SiR was produced as a week end race car.
The Type R civic and Integra including the new 7th gen Type R Civic were designed with track use in mind, and the most famous of Honda track bred cars.

Unforunatly the US only got a fat over weight version of the Type R Integra. It is the only track bred Honda sold in the US.

Originally posted by Moppie
Quoting facts from a video game is pretty silly, its not exactly a reliable source.

However there are plenty of thrack bred Honda's sold in Japan and Europe.
There have been weekend race ready versions of the Civic since the RS version of the 1st gen in the early 70s.
My car is a classic example, the orginal SiR was produced as a week end race car.
The Type R civic and Integra including the new 7th gen Type R Civic were designed with track use in mind, and the most famous of Honda track bred cars.

Unforunatly the US only got a fat over weight version of the Type R Integra. It is the only track bred Honda sold in the US.

moppie dude. right as always but me and redneck are just going for a run of being assholes we know all this stuff already but i guess its good just incase some noob strolls along and reads this

-GTi-VR6_A3

Originally posted by Moppie


Unforunatly the US only got a fat over weight version of the Type R Integra. It is the only track bred Honda sold in the US.
what?????? what about the NSX or the civic si or how bout the gsr integra? Not to mention the rsx type-s, but now that I think about it they always keep the best stuff in japan........:(

Originally posted by hybridsol
but now that I think about it they always keep the best stuff in japan........:(

I was just about to justify what i said, but I guess you got it. :)

Originally posted by Moppie


I was just about to justify what i said, but I guess you got it. :)
sorry moppie should have waited a few min.:) didint mean to jump on your back.

in my opinion civics are just slow... i have seen a few tricked out ones but i still beat the shit out of them. me and my dad both race alot around the city and neither have ever lost to a civic. he drives a 1994 formula firebird and i have a 1993 dodge stealth. now i know there are some civics somewhere in the world that would beat me easily but like moppie said they keep that stuff in japan

Please read this (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=162405) and do not resurect ancient threads.


Welcome to af btw.