Loosing ALL Electrical Power

[RIP]

94 2.2 ltr 188K miles.

Got a call from the youngest at college about midnight the other night. Car wouldn't start. I asked the usual questions. Thought we had a typical no click situation till she said nothing lit up on the dash when she turned the key. "Did the interior lights come on when you got in?...No." I start thinking dead battery. She says "same thing happened a few times in the last couple weeks but, it would suddenly come to life like nothing was wrong." She said she would walk away and come back a few minutes later and all was back to normal. I downed a couple aspirin. To shorten this up, she got out leaving the door open, opened the hood and immediately, the interior lights came back on with the door open chime. It started right up. The one common thread. It only happens on cold nights. Come on summer!

Shift interlock was dead. Gear shift would not move. No horn, blower, headlights, parking lights, clock, radio, nothing worked. Next day I had her check battery connections, shake cables, harnesses, reseat relays and fuses in the fuse boxes under the hood. Nothing made it lose power again. Any thoughts?

[Brian R.]

My best guess would be a bad ground connection to the battery or a bad battery. She may not have adequately checked all the connections. Batteries can be trashed by someone being too aggressive with the terminals and damaging the internal connection with the plates.

[jdmccright]

Groung connections and battery cable crimped connections can become corroded and brittle, eventually failing from the normal vibrations. Sometimes this corrosion happens out of sight under the insulation, but is shown as a swelling of the cable due to buildup of the corrosion products.

[RIP]

Thanks for the inputs. I had her look the battery cables over again and reseat the connections. Nothing amiss there at least visually. She said the ground connection looked good and was tight. Still baffled. I'll have to pray it lasts till I can get my hands on it. Been 5 days since it happened, but then night temps have increased too.

[2000izusu]

any update? battery connections? bad battery?

[Brian R.]

Originally Posted by RIP

Thanks for the inputs. I had her look the battery cables over again and reseat the connections. Nothing amiss there at least visually. She said the ground connection looked good and was tight. Still baffled. I'll have to pray it lasts till I can get my hands on it. Been 5 days since it happened, but then night temps have increased too.

Don't forget, there are two ground connections. One on the battery and one on the block.

[RIP]

Originally Posted by 2000izusu

any update? battery connections? bad battery?

Update? Yes but only to say it's been starting fine since the incident two weeks ago. She's got it at college. I just hope her luck holds out till I can get to the car. Ambient temps are definitely playing a part. Night's are warmer in San Diego. If anything new comes up I'll let all know.

Yup. Two ground connections.

[2000izusu]

Cool! i hate intermittant problems!

[RIP]

Update. Car wouldn't start when leaving work (Seaworld) tonight. The good news? All power indications were there ie, lights, chimes, gearshift movement, just no rotation. Nothing but a click. Went through the usual checks. After smacking the starter several times, it decided to start. Will be changing starter contacts and relay when I get my hands on the car. The loss of all electrical power issue hasn't come back yet. I'll be changing battery cables and considering ign switch, again, once I get my hands on the car. Maybe Memorial Day weekend. Sure would be nice to find the smoking gun but, I don't expect to.

The no rotation problem has happened maybe 10 times over the past year. Daughter says it seems to be getting more frequent now. Once thought it was the neutral start switch. Cycled gearshift and would then start. Now that doesn't help. Still have at least a cleaning of the switch and contacts on the list. Doesn't appear to be battery related. Once it rotates it spins and starts normally. No sluggishness.

One good thing about all of this? My daughter is learning more about auto mechanics then she ever wanted to.

[Brian R.]

Originally Posted by RIP

Yup. Two ground connections.

That was more for her benefit than yours...

[Mike Gerber]

"After smacking the starter several times, it decided to start. Will be changing starter contacts and relay when I get my hands on the car."

My vote is for the starter's solenoid contact replacement solving the random no-start problem. With 188,000 miles on the car, I would consider having the whole starter professionally rebuilt by an auto electrical rebuilder, especially if it's the original starter. It's the same amount of labor on your part to remove and reinstall the starter. A bit more money though; probably around $100 more. Check your local phone book for one in your area.

Mike

[RIP]

Only going to have access to the car one day. It's a 500 mile round trip to get to the car so I want to make sure everything I do counts. Not familiar with shops in San Diego area so I will rebuild the starter myself, that is if I can get a kit. If not I'll bite the bullet and change the starter. The relay change is just a little CYA since it's an easy cheap replacement. I appreciate all the advice.

[RIP]

Update. Made it to the car Memorial Day weekend. Spent an hour trying to duplicate the loss of electrics but, it wasn't to be. I inspected/pulled/wiggled harnesses, relay/fuse panels, ign switch, etc and electrics were solid. So...sprayed half a can of contact cleaner on several relay sockets, Cleaned the battery posts and ground connections though they appeared ok. I'm hoping I don't get another call.

For the no start issue I pulled the starter and changed the solenoid contacts and plunger. All were in sad shape, badly worn and pitted. I also inspected and tested the neutral start switch. Never got it to fail so I cleaned the connector and called it good. Didn't change the starter relay as planned. It wasn't so cheap at $80+. Again, I hope I don't get that call again but, feel more confident on this fix. It's been starting up fine for over a week so far. No loss of electrics either. I'll give it a couple weeks and let you know.