is orange peel inevitable?

[derka-derka]

ive worked thru a few models, improving each time.. but i just wanna kno if OP is inevitable. Considering the factors that cause OP, its pretty hard to acheive a perfect finish. Im in Australia, and the gear offered here is a bit lacking, and others like ambient temperature are bit hard to control...

so if OP is inevitable, and assuming its not so bad, is it ok to let it be and finish off with just a polish and rub... if rubbing and polish would return my model to shine, then i wnt have to keep sanding, spraying sanding spraying etc etc...

Ive tried what other posts say about thin coating....but somehow when i applied thin coats, it makes it look even worse..looks as if its completly matte and monster OP effect. I still do keep my coats not so heavy to avoid running....

also would a clear coat over top of OP base coat help after polishing? It seems more dangerous polishing base coat rather than clear coat....just wondering if i polish out clear coat, would the OP effect still be there?

thnx for any info..

[hirofkd]

It sounds like your thinned paint drying too quickly. GSI (Gunze) sells an additive called Retarder, which allows the paint to level by slowing down the drying time.
They also have the product called Mr. Leveling Thinner, which is basically a mix of thinner and retarder. Another trick you can use is to spray relatively strong thinner as a final touch in order to melt the very outer surface, but it needs some practice.

[striving]

Well, I am no expert. But I have been working hard on my last several models to get a really nice final paint job.

I dont know if you are using an airbrush or cans. I use cans. And pretty much now only using Tamyia paints. I usually throw on a couple coats of primer. Sanding each one lightly. If the final primer coat is completly covering all the body, I then go for color.

On my latest model the final color coat came out pretty smooth. But even that it still needs sanding and polishing. I am using some Micro-mesh cloths from 3200-8000 grit. Then use the Tamyia polishing compounds (Course to Fine to Finish). This is giving me a very near perfect finish.

It takes some time to get used to using this stuff. The first couple bodies I used this on I would sand through on edges and raised details. But it just takes practice to learn how much is enough. I have read a lot of tutorials on line and although they help, nothing helps more than just doing it and learning how much to sand and polish out.

As far as OP under a clear-coat? I don't think I would do that. I would at least get some 2000 sandpaper and smooth the paint out then clear coat it. This would be no diff then clear coating a matte metallic paint. And the Clear works well for a gloss over it.

Here are a couple pics. This is my 64 impala I am working on now. The roof has been polished while the trunk/decklid is just as the paint was laid. It hasn't been sanded even yet. You can see the diff with what some sanding and polishing will do.

This is without a Clear coat. I decided to try just polishing out the paint this time.

[derka-derka]

very nice work there... the model im on now doesnt have severe orange peel...im just wondering whether its possible to achieve a COMPLETE, perfect mirror paint job without sanding, polishing etc...so basically is it posible to achieve the polished effect without doing so....
Looking into the above posters nice paint job, there still do seem to be very very minro orange peel after polishing...im not saying hes done a bad job...hes done great...in fact....i looked into my real car the other day and i noticed theres orange peel too lol...that was the stock factory paint job...untouched and theres still minor OP...but the shine is still there..

[MPWR]

Inevitable? Not at all. You will probably get a number of opinions, but in my experience/opinion orangepeel is a flaw that can be avoided instead of a necessary evil. It's easier to learn to avoid it than it is to mess with sanding cloths every time you paint. I do not ever sand my last layer of paint or clearcoat.

Here's my approach:

1- Primer



Primer is by far the most important step, and it makes or breaks your paint job. My builds get many applications of primer (usually between three and thirty), and it definately gets fully sanded. Every square cm is sanded with 2000 grit paper, and the primer is completely smooth and slightly glossy before it's ready for paint. Every flaw and every bit of texture must be addressed before moving on. Notice there's almost a little bit of shine on the bonnet and front fender arch? This body is getting close, but obviously not there yet- it still needs some more primer on the rear wheel arch.

2- Paint

I spray lacquers at the lowest pressure that the paint will consistently atomize (usually around 15psi) and with as much thinner as I can add before the paint runs. This makes the paint go on nice and smooth, but it must be put on slowly.



This is the first light application of paint. Any flaws or texture in the primer are now easier to see, and must be fixed now with sanding and/or more primer. The primer must be perfect.



Here's the paint finished, about 6ish light coats. It is deep enough to be fully opaque, and no deeper. Any dust or texture that develops gets sanded out between coats. The final layer of paint does not get sanded- especially when using metallics! When it's done, the paint is not really shiny- but it's smooth, and that's the important thing.

3- Clearcoat



Ten-ish layers of clearcoat. Applied just like the paint- low pressure, lots of thinner in light coats. I usually apply 2 coats at a time, and leave 2 hours in between. Again when it's done it's not really shiny but it's smooth.

4- Polish





I polish using Tamiya compound and cotton flannel cloth. Micromesh doesn't come anywhere near it at this stage. It takes about 10-15 minutes to do the whole body, and all polishing does is take off the matte surface haze from the clearcoat. Then it gets waxed- I like Zymol (the same thing I use on my 1/1), cause it smells great.

Doing it this way there's no real danger of sanding through the paint, and the haze of very fine scratches that micromesh always seems to create and never completely removes never happens.

Some people do great things with micromesh, but it always disappoints me. Learning to get the paint to go on smooth made body painting something I really enjoy instead of something to be suffered through.

[racer917]

Is orange peel inevitable? Absolutely not. All I can say is that on occassion I might have to lightly sand a small portion to correct a small blemish on a finish but I never paint a body knowing that I will have to sand/polish it later to get a good shine. Sometimes, but almost never, I will sand between coats but never on the final coat. Sometimes I will not ever clear coat it. I will post pics soon.

[derka-derka]

thnx for tips guys...i posted some pics below...maybe any pros can judge the amount of orange peel on the R33 body...however it does shine a bit without any polish yet...

[Didymus]

What kind of paint are you using, Derka-Derka?

I think MPWR's method is the most reliable and the most efficient.

IMO, the coarsest thing that should be applied to a good final coat (thin and wet) is Tamiya Coarse, and that's not coarse at all!

As to whether you can get a perfect gloss without polishing... well, I think it's theoretically possible, but only if conditions are ideal: airbrush distance, paint viscosity, temperature, humidity, surface, air pressure, etc. It's a crapshoot, so it might take many tries - and a lot of paint build-up - to get it right.

Rather than adding to the paint thickness, I'd rather spend a little time polishing some OP out of a "just okay" final coat.

Ddms

[derka-derka]

I am also working on a ferrari FXX...i ordered the Rosso Corsa from Zero paints at hirboy.co.uk...first time trying it...some how the paint just goes to a dull finish..ive started off very 2-3 mist coats with primer b4 hand...then i gave another 3-4 moderate coats to finish off...but it still very dull...the orange peel isnt very bad...is it the paint that just finishes off like that and requires clear coat with polish to have a shine? or am i just not doing it prply.

[Tervo]

Originally Posted by derka-derka

I am also working on a ferrari FXX...i ordered the Rosso Corsa from Zero paints at hirboy.co.uk...first time trying it...some how the paint just goes to a dull finish..ive started off very 2-3 mist coats with primer b4 hand...then i gave another 3-4 moderate coats to finish off...but it still very dull...the orange peel isnt very bad...is it the paint that just finishes off like that and requires clear coat with polish to have a shine? or am i just not doing it prply.

Yes, Zero paints are basecoat paints, they give you a matte finish, and require a clear coat. You will not get a shining finish just with polishing them.

[derka-derka]

1 more question....with zero paint...after ive finished the base coating, do i need to give it a light sand with hi grade sandpaper b4 clear coating?

[ales]

No, you don't touch it before clearcoating

[rsxse240]

The reason you get the dull finish with all 2 stage paints (base/clear) is so the clear has something to grab on to and not peel off.

one question. why do you mask off the "glass" and place it in the body while you paint? if you happen to leave the tape on the glass for to long, the adhesive from the tape could mar/etch or just leave a nasty residue on the surface and your paint will be for not as the glass will look like poo.

[derka-derka]

that car body was a re paint. it was stuffed up after build like 2 months ago and i decided to make the paint job better. and i tried take everything apart and the glass just didnt come off...so i had to mask it...not the best idea but thats all i could think of

[rsxse240]

hey, it works, no one can fault you for that. Just make sure to take the tape off asap.