Interesting Idea for E85

[Thor06]

Hey guys. I know I posted in my project thread that I was going to stop modding the Talon. Well, the place I am going to live next year is about $150 a month cheaper than I originally planned for... now Thor doesnt need to the extra cash from selling on of his babies so he gets to keep playing . I'll just have to leave the Talon in storage for a while during the last bit of college.

Stay with me here guys, this might get long.

I've got cams, 255, and ARP head studs and they are going in this spring. I think I am going to get a DIY WBO2 with my tax refund for something fun to do, and I'll try to score a Pocket Logger cheap with some of the money I get from selling some of my spare shit.

From this site, if one were to get 580cc injectors, you'd only have to set the global correction at .86%, which is negligible. Basically, the ECU will think its getting gasoline and think its got 450's when its really giving E85 and has bigger injectors to compensate.

Does this make sense to anyone but me? Has anyone ever heard of this being done? I am sort of thinking that I might try it this summer, and I realize that I wont have the fuel to do a lot of the high boost fun usually associated with E85, but I will be able to do the normal gasoline moderate boost thing without worry of knock, plus I will hopefully be able to keep an eye on everything with the WBO2 and pocket logger. Thoughts?

[Blackcrow64]

Sounds semi-logical... Has anyone else done that?

[SilvrEclipse]

That seems like it may work. I would say its worth a try, whats the worst that can happen? You will have a WBo2 and logger so you wont blow it up.

What will you be using to tune? I would get something better than the SAFC. Get dsmlink or emanage. That will give you a lot better control of the motor and you should be able to tune the motor pretty well.

[Thor06]

Brian: Not that I am aware of or tried to find. I dont have a ton of time to look, especially since I have no idea what to really look for.

Jason: If this works out right, I wont be needing tuning software as the stock fuel maps should work. The global change for the 580's on E85 is only +.86% which I view as negligible. Whether the injectors are dirty or not will likely have a bigger effect on it than that small of a global correction, besides the stock fuel maps are made on the rich side to compensate for things like that. To illustrate this, according to the E85 table (link at bottom) 580cc injectors on E85 will support 32.42lbs/min at 100% IDC and 25.94lbs/min at 80% IDC. The 93 octane table provided by sypderturbo indicates that 450cc injectors will flow for 32.30lbs/min at 100% IDC and 25.84lbs/min at 80% IDC.

See, the numbers are essentially the same. The E85 requires extra fuel to run properly, but it just so happens that the bigger injectors give basically give exactly the extra amount of fuel needed, making the stock fuel maps acceptable to use. I'm not 100% sure that this will work, but it makes sense to me... maybe I am just . The only difference is that I wouldnt have to worry about knock on the stock fuel maps. I dont know if I am going to do this or not, but I thought it was worth a shot at thinking about anyway.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/arti...culations.html

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=676215

[SilvrEclipse]

I see your point and the stock maps should be enough to make the car run decent but if you were able to tune the car also Im sure it would run better.

[eclipsed at 3am]

I WAS gonna say don't be a cheap bastard if you want to own a DSM, but then I thought that was a pretty rude thing to say.

I think I understand what you are saying. What kind of plugs would you need for this?

Also, are you just trying to save money on gas? If so maybe you should invest in DSMlink. Before I got it, I had safc and I was getting probably about 240 miles per tank, and that was almost no boosting, shifting at 2.5-3k rpm or so. WITH DSMlink and also BC 272/272 cams, 680cc injectors, doing a few WOT pulls @ 22psi across the bridge, rev-matching and using the transmission to slow down, and mostly city driving, I average about 280-300 miles per tank.

DSMlink is amazing for tuning. It has completely redefined the drivability of my car. Idling, partial throttle, cruising, gas economy, boosting, its all great.

I mean, its no aem stand-alone, but its great.

[Thor06]

Yes, I am a cheap bastard and if you think you need to communicate this fact to me then by all means do it. As long as I know its not a personal attack I'm fine with it (such as right now).

First off, in doing this I would essentially be doing it just to do it. The E85 wont knock like pump gas might so thats a plus, but I'm not exactly doing it for any specific performance or cost advantage. Alternate fuel sources for personal transportation is one thing I would ideally like to do with my ME degree, and I think this would be an interesting learning experience.

Second off, I know that it wont run any better than stock. I plan to get DSMlink eventually to tune it with, but I just plain dont have $600 in the budget for it this summer. The things I do now will be pretty much repairs, small fun stuff, and maximizing the current setup without tuning. I know its not going to be a 1/4 mile monster, but its not supposed to be at the moment.

[gthompson97]

E85 eats rubber. You'll be going through injector o-rings left and right, not to mention rubber fuel line fittings and such.

[Thor06]

Any experience to back that up? I know several people that have been running E85 on stock fuel systems (excluding the pump, regulator, and injectors themselves) for years and havent had any trouble.

Another thing Thor didnt realize first is that the E85 and gasoline tables were using different target AFR's. I think the only way for me to know for sure is to get the calculations and do them myself for the same AFR's.

[eclipsed at 3am]

Originally Posted by Thor06

..Another thing Thor didnt realize first...

why do you keep referring to yourself in the 3rd person?

[Black99GST]

Originally Posted by eclipsed at 3am

why do you keep referring to yourself in the 3rd person?

becauset thats thor's thing...

i would be very interested in how this all works out thor! keep us updated for sure!

[Thor06]

Well, I think I am going to just wait on that until I can get some sort of EMS. I think I might just bite it and get DSMlink this summer, maybe that will be my prize if I can get really good grades this semester, or I should just get a job and sell my spare car parts. Engine management is the best thing I can get for my car right now anyway. Its going to be hard as hell to buy without my parents knowing and even harder to justify mentally, but fuck ya only live once right?

I think I am finally going to follow through on my plans for the in-car computer too. I stumbled upon our old computer over break in the storage room, its kind of old (733mhz PIII, 128mb of ram, 20 gig hd) but it should run link and the WBO2 program just fine. I have a friend that can get me a 40 gig for free, so I think I'll get that and daisy chain them for 60 gigs, then hook it up to my CD player via the aux in so I can just copy my itunes to the computer and play whatever the hell I want in my car!

I'll just hack up the case to fit it up where the AC condenser used to be, mount the CD drive and a USB hub in the glove compartment, and buy a wireless mouse/keyboard combo. I havent decided what to do about a screen yet, I think I might get a 10" or 15" flip down, or maybe I'll get sneaky and buy a used old LCD monitor and build a braket so it can be hidden between the center consol and my seat, but I can flip it up to see. Shit, I might as well get a wireless card too, then I can park in a hotel or coffee shop and post up my link logs for you all to look at, then come back in an hour to check! Man, now I need to go plan a money tree.

I suppose I could go the cheaper way with either Ostrich (like kittay uses) or an SAFC with a pocketlogger, but DSMlink is so much easier and proven.. plus it basically doesnt lose value. Even if I have to sell it later, I'll likely only loose $50-$75 on it. Anyone want to donate to the Thor is a poor piece of shit fund?

[Black99GST]

sad... i was looking forward to the e85 results... but without any ems, you wouldnt actually be able to show any differences... so i guess it works out...